HighBourne Citadel V.3.0.2

[Zucth]

I did a fast look and I found 4 problem that you should fix or make a change, itemdrop lv8 artifact for a lv16 camp didnt make any sense, and it isn't only one or two camp that was like this.
1. an item drop that have a chance of 50% of empty, should not happen.
2. Doodad Gaps, like between the tile corner and trees. worker can hide behind it.
3. Many place are too narrow
4. not enough trees so far.

additional base on my thought is your creep choices

 

[MistHaven]

I did a fast look and I found 4 problem that you should fix or make a change, itemdrop lv8 artifact for a lv16 camp didnt make any sense, and it isn't only one or two camp that was like this.
1. an item drop that have a chance of 50% of empty, should not happen.
2. Doodad Gaps, like between the tile corner and trees. worker can hide behind it.
3. Many place are too narrow
4. not enough trees so far.

additional base on my thought is your creep choices

sorry for the late reply thanks for being a honest critique i will make it much better.

 

[Altruistic Anduin]

Can you provide screenshots? I've opened the map in the World Editor and might I say, interesting choice of trees. But I have to agree with @Zucth--the doodad gaps, the amount of trees--this is only the beta, fortunately. And yeah, the choice of creeps are not on par with the Dalaran theme. Speaking of which, the layout looks more of a Cityscape than Dalaran. You could also make areas like a forest and not a full-on city, but this is just my suggestion.

 

[MistHaven]

Can you provide screenshots? I've opened the map in the World Editor and might I say, interesting choice of trees. But I have to agree with @Zucth--the doodad gaps, the amount of trees--this is only the beta, fortunately. And yeah, the choice of creeps are not on par with the Dalaran theme. Speaking of which, the layout looks more of a Cityscape than Dalaran. You could also make areas like a forest and not a full-on city, but this is just my suggestion.

Thanks for the suggestion bro i think you are right i might change the layout a lil bit. i think is should revert the creeps also into default creeps of citycscape?

 

[Altruistic Anduin]

Thanks for the suggestion bro i think you are right i might change the layout a lil bit. i think is should revert the creeps also into default creeps of citycscape?

Yeah. You can get the Lordaeron (Fall and Summer for forest), Cityscape, and Dalaran creep units.

 

[MistHaven]

Yeah. You can get the Lordaeron (Fall and Summer for forest), Cityscape, and Dalaran creep units.

thanks I am already working on it. Thanks for the Suggestion btw.

 

[Altruistic Anduin]

It seems a little better. Now you just gotta add more trees. You could also add nearby green creep camps for early gameplay, and upgrade some green camps to orange, and a couple of orange to red camps at gold mines. The center Marketplace could have been more protected. Maybe add Villagers for some cinematic "pizzazz".

 

[MistHaven]

It seems a little better. Now you just gotta add more trees. You could also add nearby green creep camps for early gameplay, and upgrade some green camps to orange, and a couple of orange to red camps at gold mines. The center Marketplace could have been more protected. Maybe add Villagers for some cinematic "pizzazz".

Hey sup can you review my map again i pretty much took your advice i added villagers and some sort i change all doodads to summer trees. and improve creep camps as well.

 

[Altruistic Anduin]

Okay. Can you tell what texture you play in? SD (Classic) or HD (Reforged)? If Reforged, you should add in the tags that your map is meant to be played in HD mode. Also, this can be painstaking, but you can perhaps use the new walls in the Structures section of the Doodads instead of elevating levels of the ground with Tiled Walls. I know it's a change from the old "imitating walls with the two-level tiled walls" trick, but they'd look good on your map since it's a Cityscape theme. You could add variety to the ground textures and not simply Grass, but that's just my suggestion. Cityscape is one of the easiest to build since you don't need much levelling, various ground textures, and map-makers can go nuts with the symmetry rule--everything all equal and measured. You can also widen some paths, because some disrupts nearby creep camps.

 

[mafe]

I'm sorry for the long delay until the official review.

It appears that this is the first map you uploaded here at the hiveworkshop, so I assume you are relatively new to melee mapping. Considering this, the map is alright, but unavoidably there are several rookie mistakes:
1. Pathing: The map is very labyrinth-like. In wc3 this rarely a good idea. Players will feel confused, a lot of time will be spent walking around (much more than compared to other maps) and air/ground armies will unintentionally split up all the time. Basically, most good wc3 maps do not consist of linear paths, they consist of "adjacent open spaces" if that makes sense. As of now, there is a lot of "nothing" all around the map in terms of gameplay. And creeping your heroes will be very slow.
2. There are just a few creepspots that appear as copies in many locations all around the map. There could be more variety.
3. Same about more variation in itemdrops. Also, some itemdrops are just broken. In particular for the 7-4-4 spot with the bandit lord, a lvl 3 or 4 item is much appropriate than a lvl 7 item. Look at ladder maps to see how the strength of creepcamps and itemdrops correlate.
4. Every gold mine should have at least one nearby creep that is not on camp stance.
5. Fountains should normally also have creeps nearby.
6. For a map apparently intended for 4v4 (oe 2v2v2v2?), the narrow corridors and some very narrow choke points provide an additional issue if the teams want to group up. Then it becomes very difficult to move large armies around. This is particularly weird since even for 4v4, the map as a whole is actually quite large.
7. Visually the map is ok, not over the top, but at the same time for any wc3 map there is always room for improvement.

There is more that would be relevant for higher quality maps which I didnt mention in details (forests for example). But in order to provide the basics features of normal wc3 maps, at least 3 and 4 need to be fixed. Until then, map set Awaiting Update.

 

[Remixer]

Review - High Bourne Citadel
(Version December 10th 2022)
(Due to mafe's absence I'll review this and update its status. Apologies for the moderation delay.)
Synopsis: High Bourne Citadel is a maze of a melee map, with most of the map consisting of corridors surrounded by high cliffs. In its current state its layout and gameplay are highly unconventional and thus the map does not meet the standard melee standards.
Map Aesthetics: The aesthetics are all in all not that bad. They could surely be improved as the tile usage is quite monotone (Cityscape is not the easiest tileset to begin with) and decorative props seem a little clumped. The map environment should support the goals one is trying to achieve, rather than exist for the sake of existing. Numerous spots on the map feature a clump of trees, flowers pots or houses in the middle or at the side of a corridor without really serving a real purpose. This becomes quite distracting as the environment and map layout are already hard to read on their own. Rather have a section of the map walled out ( signaled as 'unreachable' or 'inaccessible' ), than have another corridor or narrow spot surrounded by trees or other props that the player needs to pay attention to. Overall the aesthetics give quite a claustrophobic and hard-to-read impression. The environment could be made a lot more dynamic and easier to read to significantly improve playability - patterns are helpful.
Map Layout: The map layout is very unconventional. It actually reminds me more of a Warchasers map rather than a standard melee map. While unconventionality is not necessarily bad, in this case it would have to be supported by clear aesthetics and other aspects. Having a difficult and maze-like layout must be supported with clarity and otherwise ordinary gameflow - neither of which are true in this map. The layout has a few spots (red base for example) that grants the defending player a superior advantage of raised cliffs - this is quite unfair in such a mazy map with few routing options, especially when the same conditions are not given on the opposing side of the map (for each player). Other oddities also occur, such as unguarded health fountains and numerous walkable cliff-tops (for units/gargoyles to land on). Overall the flying units seem far too superior on this map has the ground routes are way too restricted.
Neutral Objectives: The creep camps are quite inconsistent. Way too many (and way too low-level) camps drop artifacts, while the expansion gold mines and their surroundings seem way to easy to access and overtake, giving some player pairs extremely unfair position - with this in mind, the map does not work as 2v2v2v2. Overall the neutral objectives look very clustered and do not follow a clear pattern or pathway - once again making the map harder to read. Even me looking at it in the Editor with birds' eye perspective I'm struggling to see a good approach to the game flow.
Map Gameplay: The map has too many oddities to support enjoyable gameplay: it's hard to read, it's unpredictable and in many places unfair between the players. It's unheard of to have unguarded health fountains on the way to your enemies, while then having to face a high-ground expansion gold mine right next to your opposing player. Simultaneously a lot of creep camps drop artifacts (which would not be expected considering their level).

Notes: I could see the map having potential, but it needs drastic work to improve. The layout is just not functional as is and it is extremely hard to read. The tileset and tile usage lack contrast to guide the player, and the decorative props placed do not make the situation any better (quite the contrary). My recommendation is to start smaller (make a map for two or four players first) and take a look at other well-established melee maps to get the idea of how you as the creator of a map can guide the players so they can focus on actually playing the map.
Set to Lacking.