Helms Deep Total War v2.0

[MustyToaster]

Helms Deep Total War v2.0 is a reinvention and rebirth of it's own kind. Being almost entirely revamped and renewed from 1.0, with a large change in the maps focus. Players will experience a new tier of detail, aswel as features and challenges on both sides.

Features

Terrain

New Terrain will consist of advanced editor techniques, as well as precise pathing.
Doodads will be richly mixed with structural detail functioning not only as eye candy but also interactive in game-play. Both sides will see significant changes in how terrain effects them as a whole, all new strategies will have to be devised using your surroundings as an engine.

Balance

A downfall of many Helms Deep maps even siege maps in general is the fact the two different sides are extremely different in game-play.
Instead of a 50-50 mentality we have changed the idea of the siege map balancing process. Various things can be awarded depending on your style of play, options are plenty and allow players to find there niche without being forced into one "best" style of strategy. This idea is being vastly improved in 2.0 with team work rewarded events and new class selection based heroes.

Cinematic Emerson

While many siege maps focus on game-play alone 2.0 allows for an immersive experience.
Players feel as if the world of Tolkien comes alive in every action you take, with vast improvement to the existing features adding new perspectives and life into already existing elements and adding new features all together.

--Update 8/18/2011--

--Update 8/18/2011--

Progress is going well as most of the main systems are in now implemented. The majority of Helms Deep itself is done terrain wise, however parts of the outside terrain are still needed to be done. Balance is the real beast oncoming to us, we have not decided how beta is really going to be handled or whether its going to be public or private or a mix of both. Hopefully next update will be about what we have decided on that!

Terrain: 90%
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Triggers: 70%
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Units: 90%
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2-D Art Assets: 100%
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Balance Testing: 0%
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No ETA on beta at this time.

New Screens

Note that 2.0 is still in early Development many things you see in the screen shots are subject to change in the future.

 

[Banefull]

August 6th Update:

Terrain: 85%
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Triggers: 50%
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Units: 90%
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2-D Art Assets: 100%
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Balance Testing: 0%
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Estimated time to beta: 6 days

 

[MustyToaster]

Update

Update: adding new sceen.

Show

 

[Vengeancekael]

Lol hide the blockers in the screenshots. Anyways this looks really good, first castle defense map I've seen with a nice terrain.

 

[Deleted member 177737]

One of the better LOTR based maps I've seen. GJ

 

[-W3SK3R-]

Why in the name of earth the cliffts are made of stone outside the keep where you have to put the bombs? You can use this skins for the Archers and the cavalry. Just import the skins because the Archer model is using ingame texture you can use that texture with the model for better ambience.

 

[Banefull]

Why in the name of earth the cliffts are made of stone outside the keep where you have to put the bombs?

Don't worry, the screenshot was a WIP. We have a few placeholder features atm (bomb part, tower, area in front of main gate, etc).

You can use this skins for the Archers and the cavalry. Just import the skins because the Archer model is using ingame texture you can use that texture with the model for better ambience.

We considered this before but our main concern is the lack of teamcolor on the model. While that may seem very trivial of a concern, based on our experience with previous versions, we found that it is very important that players are able to easily identify who owns what. We might use them with hero glow but we'll have to see.

If you have any further suggestions, plz do let us know. We're eager to hear them.

 

[takakenji]

Very nice. Definently the best terrained Helms Deep out there. All others tend to put barely any work into their terrains.

 

[Banefull]

New screenshot showing the new ramp (old one shown above was a placeholder):

Screenshot

 

[Madara.Uchiha]

cant wait

 

[Foronisus]

so any progress?

 

[MustyToaster]

so any progress?

Things are still moving along smoothly, allot of new ideas and systems were done complementary to the new terrain some of this was unplanned so the ETA to beta may take a little longer than originality expected.

 

[Foronisus]

nice to hear that the project isnt dead any new screenshots of the terrain?

 

[MustyToaster]

Things are starting to come together.

New Screen

 

[Foronisus]

Nice picture but i think you should make bigger the gate

 

[M0rbid]

The terrain looks really nice already. Just one thing. I suggest to import a custom rock model, if you have the space for it. I guess it would really push the look of this terrain.
In case you are interested, contact me about a custom rock

 

[Svenska_0rmen]

More screens please

 

[MustyToaster]

More screens please

Updated first page, with new screens and an up to date progress report!

 

[Svenska_0rmen]

Awsome

 

[Quantum]

This Helm's Deep map is so different and good from the other map type like this, the terrain is so cool.

 

[Foronisus]

yea but when is Beta??? you said 6 days and passed 15+ and more days than you told us.So when can we expect?

 

[Banefull]

yea but when is Beta??? you said 6 days and passed 15+ and more days than you told us.So when can we expect?

Things always turn out to take longer than expected. The only thing we are waiting on is to polish some minor things and to make one important major change: modifying the way that uruks spawn troops. With a bigger map, we realized the old spawning system we used would be too inadequate.

Basically we want to automate the spawning of uruk-hai troops. Something I was not happy with was the amount of time uruks spent clicking the train order button. We want them to spend the vast bulk of their time on micro and actually commanding existing forces. That said, we are not eliminating the macro element completely. Here is what we are planning: Instead of repeatedly clicking to train a unit hundreds of times, troop spawning will be automatic. As soldiers die, they will automatically be replaced and automatically walk up to a rally point ready for deployment. Uruk-hai players will be merely control the composition of the army in terms of percentages which can be seen via multiboard.

For example a player can set his or her army spawns to be
50% regular uruk-hai soldiers
25% beserkers
15% warg riders
10% shamans

Based upon tactical situations, the player can adjust army composition. If there are a lot of archers which easily cut down beserkers in a few hits, an uruk-hai player can just order less berserkers to be produced and more warg rider/regular uruks which are more arrow resistant.

Of course the automatic spawning only applies to basic units. If you have played older versions of Helms Deep Total War, you will know that there are two tiers of units: basic and elite. Elite units are more powerful versions of basic units that cost money. In the new version, elite units along with units with special roles such as cave trolls and ladders will have to be manually bought.

The layout in which you control production will change also. In the old version, we had multiple buildings each with different units. this time you will able to order every unit from a single building (representing all the functions of your base). You will be able to pick from a several sub-menus such as:

-Soldiers
-Beserkers
-Calvary
-Ranged
-Siege

We will also be introducing some more unit variety thanks to the flexibility of the new system. For example, in the category "soldiers" you will be able to:

-control the amount of basic uruk-hai soldiers produced automatically
-purchase special units like for example:
--uruk-hai legionarres which are super arrow resistant but do not do a lot of melee damage to heavily armored units
--men of dunland which are balanced in terms of being arrow and melee tanks
--Uruk-hai Officers which have very powerful aura small radius effects
--cave trolls which are super hard to kill in a melee situation due to their large hp but are very vulnerable to being focused fired by arrows due to their slow movement speed

This is why map devopment will take some more time. We made that guess on the assumption that we would release beta without these uruk-hai changes but it turned out that these are necessary if the game is to have an enjoyable playability whatsoever. At the same time, we want to continue to further push the boundaries of making the map more strategy oriented and less mindless zerging (although zerg swarms on their own still have their uses).

 

[Banefull]

And I should also add that ladders were a big delay. We already implemented this but when we made the new terrain, we discovered that our old method of making climbable ladders (hidden elevators) no longer worked. We had to redo the underlying code which handled the ladders but along the way, many major improvements have come to the system.

In previous HDTW versions, you could only place ladders in preset positions. It was only possible to have up to 9 ladders deployed on the entire map at once due to a limited number of spots. This time in v2.0 you will be able to deploy a ladder anywhere along the outer wall so long it is of the proper height. There are somewhere in the order of 110 to 120 unique spots where a ladder can be placed (yes I actually counted but the number will vary a bit until release). Additionally, the new system is more robust in regards to pathing for Rohan units. Rohan units will no longer get stuck inside walls occasionally. Did I mention that we are using an actual ladder model now instead of a siege tower?

 

[Foronisus]

Nice but release Public Beta you know there are pushing backs but from 6 days to 26 days thats more than i expected

 

[MustyToaster]

Nice but release Public Beta you know there are pushing backs but from 6 days to 26 days thats more than i expected

The idea of a beta is sort of "were close to finished or done, the map is playable and were looking for any last issues". Outside of that id call anything else alpha, alpha in my mind (at least for this map) would of been a mistake, it not only would of wasted our time, time that Banefull and I could use to develop the map further but it also would have most likely wasted your and other players times as well: with the small content updates that it would have required and all the questions that would of came with it. We have attempted to keep the hives thread as up to date we could.

As to how development is going, the original time of 6 days would of been appropriate had not further unforeseen issues come to realization so late in development. As of now we do not want the map to become "vapor-ware" so were not going to give an ETA until were absolutely sure everything is planned and accounted for. Sorry for the wait but its going to be worth it, Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

[HOooDy]

any updates ?

 

[Dr. House]

And I should also add that ladders were a big delay. We already implemented this but when we made the new terrain, we discovered that our old method of making climbable ladders (hidden elevators) no longer worked. We had to redo the underlying code which handled the ladders but along the way, many major improvements have come to the system.

In previous HDTW versions, you could only place ladders in preset positions. It was only possible to have up to 9 ladders deployed on the entire map at once due to a limited number of spots. This time in v2.0 you will be able to deploy a ladder anywhere along the outer wall so long it is of the proper height. There are somewhere in the order of 110 to 120 unique spots where a ladder can be placed (yes I actually counted but the number will vary a bit until release). Additionally, the new system is more robust in regards to pathing for Rohan units. Rohan units will no longer get stuck inside walls occasionally. Did I mention that we are using an actual ladder model now instead of a siege tower?

Right now im still updating my lord of the rings map and i was wondering is that ladder system able to work in a builder map? If so. Would you allow me to use your system? Credits given afcourse.

Now for the terrain: I haven't seen it better than this it really is a nice piece of work only thing which doesn't fit are the rocks but M0rbid already told you about that. I hope your project turns out to be a succes o and +rep

 

[Banefull]

The BETA is out right now, I will be posting a download link shortly. Sorry for the delays folks but college studies got in the way.

 

[leeko]

Any new updates on this game? I want to try the beta if its available.

 

[sonofjay]

Any new updates on this game? I want to try the beta if its available.

Nice necropost but click here to find the map

 

[Banefull]

This is just an update, its almost been a year that his project has been on hold but I'm starting to work on it again. Progress is slow but commencing nonetheless. I could really some testers for this map too and anyone interested in making some art assets too if possible.

Here are some new pictures:

In-Game Screenshot

Uruk-Hai Interface

Uruk-Hai Cursor

Editor Screenshot

 

[Deleted member 177737]

Still looking good after a year, keep going =P

 

[leeko]

I will help test the game for you guys.

 

[Banefull]

I will help test the game for you guys.

You can find me as "Banefull" on US east. Message me sometime and I can add you as a friend. Would love to get some people together to do a fullhouse test so I can see how the balance plays out.

 

[GhostThruster]

Not bad for a fully custom mesh made in MdlVis, with a custom texture made in GIMP ^^

Hand on the shield, shoulderpads, and pelvic pad are TC.

MdlVis is stuffing up a bit now so I couldn't start animating him yet.

 

[Banefull]

^^ Looks nice +rep

 

[Arcisal]

Awesome map. A decent siege map at last!

 

[GhostThruster]

I'm having trouble trying to animate it, so I'm gonna ask someone else to do it.

 

[HOooDy]

Any Updates Banefull ?? ..

 

[Banefull]

Any Updates Banefull ?? ..

Been hosting some games publicly to look for bugs. I will post an attachment to a beta copy of the map on hive as soon as I've squashed all the bugs and finish up the intro/ending cinematics. It shouldn't be long.

From the feedback received in the last few tests I have done, here is a tiny feature I added that everyone has requested:

The Old Man

 

[RandomPogi]

Lol. The one who took the first shot?

 

[Banefull]

Lol. The one who took the first shot?

 

[GhostThruster]

Good news! I fixed the animation problems with the Uruk model! I'll post a WIP soon.

Animations I will put in
-Stand - 1 - him standing around slightly hunched
-Stand - 2 - same stance as stand - 1, but his head will turn around and look
-Stand - 3 - will raise his weapon 3 times as if he is cheering or thirsty for combat
-Stand Portrait - same as stand - 1
-Walk - he will walk with a slight hunchback
-Attack - 1 - swings his weapon
-Attack - 2 - swings his weapon uppercut style
-Spell - a warcry
-Death - falls down backwards. Tries to get back up for a few seconds, then dies
-Decay Flesh - his body sinking into the ground. I don't like Decay Bone anims coz they look unrealistic and ugly.

 

[Banefull]

Glad to hear ^^

Is it possible to have a defend, attack defend, and walk defend animation too if thats not too much of a hassle?

 

[GhostThruster]

Yeah, I can do those. For some reason though the model isn't showing up in-game

 

[Banefull]

Check the geosets and their animations on your model.

 

[GhostThruster]

Almost done. I still need to fix up normals (the lighting, in-game the model is incredibly dark) and do the defend anims. When a unit uses this model, set its Art - Death Time field in the object editor to 13 seconds.

 

[Banefull]

I took a look at it in game. The model itself is quite nice but the animations walk still are a bit robotic and stiff. An excellent start though.

A little longer stride would fix the first. It currently looks he's speed walking instead of jogging or running. Additionally, a slight lean with head pointed straight ahead instead of hunch could better suit an uruk-hai. A regular orc would hunch.

You can see all of them leaning when they charge forward in most screenshots of the movie.

I could live with the crouched walk, but it looks like a very bad combat stance and off balance.

As for attack-2, his foot slides, making him lift the foot of the ground and move it forward to take a smell step would make it better in my opinion. This is really minor though.

Just a small critique.

 

[GhostThruster]

Hmm good suggestions, I'll see if I can fix his hunch. I don't think I can work on the model today though.

 

[Banefull]

Ok everyone, since I'm in need on some feedback on the map's gameplay balance, here is an attachment of a protected version of the map.

Understand that this is still a WIP and there still quite a bit of work to be done. The map might have bugs still, an incomplete feature or two, or have balance issues but that is what the beta is here to solve. There are also still some features we would like to add also.

I'm interested in any suggestions, ideas, or comments.