Hello! Toggle abilities and tomes.

[hamsterpellet]

Hello guys (and ladies) from TheHiveWorkshop!
This is my first post. I joined the Hive few days ago. (=
First of all, I want you to know that English is not my first language, but I think I will manage to make you understand what I need.

Before my questions, I want to tell you that I've been wandering the forums since the beginning of the year, and I read many posts that helped my with my map. So, now I am a member, and I want to say thanks to PeeKay (Awesome!), WILLTHEALMIGHTY (Awesome!), sPy, Epsilon, -Berz-, trippledota and Pyramidhe@d. Thank you. Your models/icons were great.

I already read the posting rules. Finally, my questions.

1. How to make dummy "toggle" abilities?
By a toggle ability I mean an ability like Immolation. You click it to activate, and click again to deactivate. And important: the unit don't need to stop walking to activate/deactivate. I tried using two Channel-based abilities along with triggers (when unit casts the "activate" ability it is removed and the "deactivate" ability is added), but the unit stops walking to perform the casting. So, I how can I make a dummy "toggle" ability? And just wondering, is there any delay between clicking "activate" on Immolation and the actual "activation" of the ability?

2. How to remove that effect when using tomes?
I have a trigger that gives a unit a tome:

• Manual Of Health
  • Events
    • Player - Player 1 (Red) types a chat message containing -tome as An exact match
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • Hero - Create Manual of Health and give it to Archmage 0000 <gen>

It's OK. Except, there is and special effect like a small explosion at the unit, and it also creates a sound. I want to remove the effect and the sound. How can I do this?

My thanks
hamsterpellet

 

[WaterKnight]

1. Channel won't work. There is only a handful of abilities that do not interrupt orders (with the exception of ability learn orders). Berserk, Mana Shield and Defend for example. And of course there is delay in multiplayer between clicking and the activation because the order needs to be broadcasted to the other clients before any effect can be dealt. This counts for all player inputs that trigger game-relevant stuff.

2. Remove the item. And no, the standard tome model does not possess a sound effect. You must be mistaken. You do not actually need an item to boost a unit's max hitpoints. There's a bug you can abuse, search for "max hp", "life" etc.

 

[shadowvzs]

2. How to remove that effect when using tomes?
I have a trigger that gives a unit a tome:

• Manual Of Health
  • Events
    • Player - Player 1 (Red) types a chat message containing -tome as An exact match
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • Hero - Create Manual of Health and give it to Archmage 0000 <gen>

It's OK. Except, there is and special effect like a small explosion at the unit, and it also creates a sound. I want to remove the effect and the sound. How can I do this?

My thanks
hamsterpellet

u can check this, i use the add/remove hp ability trick, also same way with mana
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...ory-stats-attachments-etc-208095/#post2060375

useing tomes i think isnt the best ideea :/

 

[hamsterpellet]

Thank you guys!
shadowvzs, that template looks interesting!

Hey WaterKnight, about your answers:

1. Channel won't work. There is only a handful of abilities that do not interrupt orders (with the exception of ability learn orders). Berserk, Mana Shield and Defend for example. And of course there is delay in multiplayer between clicking and the activation because the order needs to be broadcasted to the other clients before any effect can be dealt. This counts for all player inputs that trigger game-relevant stuff.

Nice to know that about multiplayer delay. Thanks.
About the abilities, look: I must run a trigger A when the ability is activated, and run a trigger B when the ability is deactivated. I thought about using Immolation for example:

• Dummy Toggle Ability Activated
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Is issued an order with no target
  • Conditions
    • (Issued order) Equal to (Order(immolation))
  • Actions
    • -------- ability activated: run functions --------

• Dummy Toggle Ability Deactivated
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Is issued an order with no target
  • Conditions
    • (Issued order) Equal to (Order(unimmolation))
  • Actions
    • -------- ability deactivated: run functions --------

It worked. BUT, my question is, this is the best way? Can this event fail sometimes? I know that there is a difference between issuing an order and the actual "cast" (the famous casting time). The casting time is a non-lag wait. Because of that difference, could my trigger fail sometimes?​

2. Remove the item. And no, the standard tome model does not possess a sound effect. You must be mistaken. You do not actually need an item to boost a unit's max hitpoints. There's a bug you can abuse, search for "max hp", "life" etc.

It worked perfectly:

• Hero Manual of Health
  • Events
    • Player - Player 1 (Red) types a chat message containing -tome as An exact match
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • Hero - Create Manual of Health and give it to Archmage 0000 <gen>
    • Item - Remove (Last created item)

And about the sound: the item Manual of Health uses the item ability Item Permanent Life Gain (+50) (raw code Almh). That ability has an Art - Caster attached to the caster's origin. Now, that art model also makes a sound by itself. Removing the art does the trick: the sound is also removed.​

Thank you very much guys!
And +rep to WaterKnight! (=

hamsterpellet

 

[shadowvzs]

And about the sound: the item Manual of Health uses the item ability Item Permanent Life Gain (+50) (raw code Almh). That ability has an Art - Caster attached to the caster's origin. Now, that art model also makes a sound by itself. Removing the art does the trick: the sound is also removed.[/INDENT]
hamsterpellet

its dont work since when u give to hero it is used automatically=>somewhere i readed u cant remove the powerups->manual health is powerup also its laggy if u spam with it

Unfortunately items don't 'decay' thus each tome, isn't removed after being used the small is created - item stays in game till end ;/ If enough tomes were bought/picked it can cause your game lag heavly.

Use Bribe's system (linked by Garfield) for doing the tome-removing stuff for you (it allows item to play death animation) or simply create small script that reacts on
Events: Unit - Uses an Item/Sells item
Conditions: Item type equal to <tome>
Actions: RemoveItem.

~Although the death animation won't be played.

 

[WaterKnight]

The abilities' effects are another story, yes.

@shadowvzs: As quoted, when a tome is being picked up, it gets destroyed but does not decay. It's however okay if you remove the item manually as shown.

 

[hamsterpellet]

its dont work since when u give to hero it is used automatically=>somewhere i readed u cant remove the powerups->manual health is powerup also its laggy if u spam with it

Perhaps you didn't understand.... First, of course it works, I tested it, it worked. When I said to remove the art I mean to go on Object Editor and remove the art. It's nothing related to in-game stuff.

So, anyways, I should create a trigger to destroy any item that perishes? I mean, whenever a tome is used or an charged item goes out of charges (and is perishable) I should do "Item - Destroy (triggering item)"?​

The abilities' effects are another story, yes.

So, what is the exact response to my question: could my trigger fail sometimes? If yes, how can I prevent that?​

hamsterpellet

 

[WaterKnight]

The activation order is always run before the ability begins. As for the deactivation, that might be triggered on different occasions like mana runs dry, unit dies/is removed, goes into transport and the like. Might even be I know it from Defend for example that the unorder is done even if the ability is already turned off.

 

[Dr Super Good]

2. Check the object editor for the tome. Might be art fields there.

There are 2 ways to add health.
1. Using tome items. Remember to remove the items after they are used to reduce leaks.
2. Abusing the integrity fault of the item health bonus ability. When its level changes it does not update the bonus applied (always has added the level 1 bonus to health) but when removed it does subtract the current level's bonus. This results in a permanent HP change for better or worse.

Problem with 1 is a probability of items having some form of permanent leak like units and that tomes creation and destruction is very demanding.
Problem with both is that chaos will cause the HP to glitch and potentially increase exponentially with each ability use until certain limits are reached (when the unit will likly die).

 

[shadowvzs]

Perhaps you didn't understand.... First, of course it works, I tested it, it worked. When I said to remove the art I mean to go on Object Editor and remove the art. It's nothing related to in-game stuff.

So, anyways, I should create a trigger to destroy any item that perishes? I mean, whenever a tome is used or an charged item goes out of charges (and is perishable) I should do "Item - Destroy (triggering item)"?​

hamsterpellet

i talked about down side of bonus items usage not about art
(i call every item powerup what is used immedtly after hero get it)
if item like hp tome disapear that dosnt mean its removed, mostly powerups will be hidden but stay in inventory and still more work, just a notice lets say u want +1000 hp, then u use 100x a +10hp tome? what happen if u want more? instant create to hero a item in huge amount could make lagg unit with a simple ability add/remove u need only 1 ability and u can make any custom hp what u want and less adding/removeing.
(u can see on attached image)

with a simple trigger and dummy item u can do same than with hp tome (u make a charged item, give book icon to him) and if hero acquired this item then remove the item add hp ability, level it to example lv2 (if u want 50 hp then hp ability must give 0 hp at lv1 and -50 at lv2).

• Untitled Trigger 002
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Acquires an item
  • Conditions
    • (Item-type of (Item being manipulated)) Equal to *Dummy Tome*
  • Actions
    • Item - Remove (Item being manipulated)
    • Unit - Add Add HP to (Triggering unit)
    • Unit - Set level of Add HP for (Triggering unit) to 2
    • Unit - Remove Add HP from (Triggering unit)

but anyway Dr Super Good told everything, this is why i told use add/remove hp ability method coz that also dont have problem when u transform to different type of unit (like i do on my map after every equiped gear)

Of course your choose what you use for giveing HP/MP to target, we just noticed the tomes isnt the best way

 

[Dr Super Good]

Both methods cause HP to bug when you change a unit's type using chaos. This is because it tries to refresh all the bonuses but as the bug works by exploiting an inconsistency in the refresh it results in the same difference being reapplied.

mostly powerups will be hidden but stay in inventory and still more work

No, it just remains dead on the ground. Same as if you kill an item (dead items never are removed automaticly).

just a notice lets say u want +1000 hp, then u use 100x a +10hp tome?

If you are stupid and do not make larger denominators. If you are adding a lot of 1000 hp you use a +1000hp tome. Your map should never use more than a couple of extra 1000 hp without it becoming badly designed. With 4 tomes, you could add 9999 HP in atleast 36 items (assuming decade spacing). With 32 tomes you could add any 32bit integer worth of HP to a unit in less than or equal to 32 items. I do agree the ability exploit does work faster, but it is not suitable for all applications (such as if chaos is used). The bug with metomorphisis might have been fixed by a patch or rquire nesting but chaos will cause HP to drift.

 

[shadowvzs]

1.No, it just remains dead on the ground. Same as if you kill an item (dead items never are removed automaticly).


If you are stupid and do not make larger denominators. If you are adding a lot of 1000 hp you use a +1000hp tome. Your map should never use more than a couple of extra 1000 hp without it becoming badly designed. With 4 tomes, you could add 9999 HP in atleast 36 items (assuming decade spacing). With 32 tomes you could add any 32bit integer worth of HP to a unit in less than or equal to 32 items. I do agree the ability exploit does work faster, but it is not suitable for all applications (such as if chaos or metomorphisis is used a lot). You might also have descovered some way to stabalize the bug which I am not aware of to stop the HP change on morph so do bare that in mind (as I am very sure it causes HP to drift when moprphing a unit).

1. its acctually same.
2. for 4 tome u need 4 ability, useless if could be use 1 ability instead 4. correct me if i am wrong but not better 1 ability instead 4?
about morph, idk, maybe u mean hero to unit morph?
i mean i created 2 unit, same based but different model and combat settings and dont got problem with unit1 metamorph to unit2 (generally both based on same unit but with different stat, example unit2 got different damage and attack speed)...
For me if unit1 type != unit2 type then 2 unit is different unit type already since got 2 different raw code and like i said i dont got any problem with hp and i think same dont have problem with maker melee transform to ranged system

 

[Dr Super Good]

It seems that 1 tier of metomorphisis does not cause a problem anymore. I guess some patch must have fixed this ages ago or maybe it only occurs if you use nested metomorphisis.

Chaos however still is a problem and will cause the HP bonus to be reapplied each time you use chaos to morph the unit. This applies to both health tomes and using the the item ability level bug. You can obviously apply a correction value though after each change to compensate for this.

Be aware that some custom abilities might abuse chaos.

 

[shadowvzs]

It seems that 1 tier of metomorphisis does not cause a problem anymore. I guess some patch must have fixed this ages ago or maybe it only occurs if you use nested metomorphisis.

Chaos however still is a problem and will cause the HP bonus to be reapplied each time you use chaos to morph the unit. This applies to both health tomes and using the the item ability level bug. You can obviously apply a correction value though after each change to compensate for this.

Be aware that some custom abilities might abuse chaos.

yeah that possile, i dont tryed chaos coz i dont got nobody in thehelper.net/hive who advised anything else than bear form/metamorph/crown form.

 

[hamsterpellet]

Thank you guys!! Nice to know about that integrity fault of the item health bonus ability...

So, using tomes, when I do Item - Remove (item), I potentially reduce the leaks, but perhaps this could still leak.
And, doesn't matter if I use tomes or the item health bonus ability bug, the HP max will bug when using any Chaos ability.

If those things I said are correct, then I assume that it's better to use the item health bonus ability (as you guys advised). And, good news, I don't use any Chaos ability in my map. (=

+rep to both of you.​

###########################
Now, let's get back to my first question, about the dummy toggle abilities.
Let me explain my exact situation to you, so you can advise me.

I am creating a hero that has two abilities that are interesting for us here. Let's call them ability A and ability B. They aren't ultimates, and has 4 levels each. I will describe both abilities.

Ability A
- Is a toggle ability (like immolation)
- Has no "activation mana-cost"
- Drains 6 mana per second
- Has no cooldown
- Can be freely activated/deactivated
- While activated: whenever the hero is attacked, run some functions

Ability B
- Is a toggle ability (like immolation)
- Has no "activation mana-cost"
- Drains 9 mana per second
- Has no cooldown
- Can be freely activated/deactivated
- When activated, the hero gains a passive aura ability (inside a disabled spellbook).
- When deactivated, the hero loses that passive ability.​

PROBLEM 01. I can't put two abilities based on Immolation in the same hero (the hero will be confused when I try to activate one of them, even if I change the order string). The solution that came to me was to find another ability that could work, like immolation. My choice was to use Mana Shield. But I am not certain how to configure Mana Shield to make it completely dummy. For Immolation is easy:

Data - Buffer Mana Required: 0.00
Data - Damage per Interval: 0.00
Data - Mana Drained per Second: 6.00
Stats - Area of Effect: 1.00
Stats - Mana Cost: 0​

But for Mana Shield, I am not fully certain what I should put on the fields. Hre is what I used, please tell me if it is correct or what must I change:

Data - Damage Absorved (%): 0.00
Data - Mana per Hit Point: 0.00
Stats - Cooldown: 0.00
Stats - Mana Cost: 0​

There is something else about the Mana Shield. Looking at the buff Mana Shield, I saw this:

Text - Tooltip - Extended: This unit has a Mana Shield; it is temporarily protected from physical damage and negative spells.​

What means that? "protected from negative spells"? I don't want that. Perhaps I should use other ability, Defend for example.
Please notice other thing: Mana Shield does not drain any mana per second. I must make the mana drain through triggers (this is not hard, I can do it).
So guys, do you suggest another ability to be used? I mean, a ability better than Mana Shield for what I want to do?

Could you guys please list me all abilities that drain mana per second?

PROBLEM 02. What about when the hero dies/is paused/goes out of mana?

I made a small investigation by myself: I discovered that any hero with the Immolation ability learnt, when it dies, is revived, is paused or unpaused, it automatically is ordered to "unimmolation". This helps a little. BUT, it doesn't happen to Mana Shield, I mean, the ability is, yes, deactivated (the hero dies with Mana Shield activated. When revives, Mana Shield is already deactivated), but there is no "manashieldoff" order (perhaps it works with Defend, but I didn't tested yet). Also, when the hero goes out of mana with the Immolation active, the Immolation automatically is deactivated, BUT there is no "unimmolation" order this time.​

What do you suggest me to do?

hamsterpellet

 

[shadowvzs]

you dont try made another dummy unit and set his position to your unit position every 0.03 second?

i mean something like this (Warning this have leak i just show coz maybe u use only 1 hero/max and u could think something like this too witha dummy ability+dummy unit+boolean&unit variable array)

• Untitled Trigger 001
  • Events
    • Time - Every 0.03 seconds of game time
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • For each (Integer A) from 1 to 12, do (Actions)
      • Loop - Actions
        • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
          • If - Conditions
            • Secondimmolation[(Integer A)] Equal to True
          • Then - Actions
            • Unit - Move Dummy[(Integer A)] instantly to (Position of (Triggering unit))
          • Else - Actions

• Untitled Trigger 002
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Begins casting an ability
  • Conditions
    • (Ability being cast) Equal to *Your 2nd immolation*
  • Actions
    • Set Secondimmolation[(Player number of (Triggering player))] = True
    • Unit - Create 1 Dummy for (Triggering player) at (Position of (Triggering unit)) facing Default building facing degrees
    • Set Dummy[(Player number of (Triggering player))] = (Last created unit)

• Untitled Trigger 003
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Dies
  • Conditions
    • Hero[(Player number of (Owner of (Dying unit)))] Equal to (Dying unit)
  • Actions
    • Unit - Remove Dummy[(Player number of (Triggering player))] from the game
    • Set AutoFeed[(Player number of (Triggering player))] = False

 

[hamsterpellet]

Wait...
Sorry, I didn't get it. I mean: making a dummy unit follow my hero has something to do with my questions??

 

[hamsterpellet]

Bump!

(Sorry if this is not allowed in the forum rules. I couldn't find the rules to check. Please do not ban me, etc, if this is wrong I promess I'll never do it again...)

 

[shadowvzs]

Wait...
Sorry, I didn't get it. I mean: making a dummy unit follow my hero has something to do with my questions??

u=you/ur=your
in that case yes if dummy unit got ur 2nd ulti immolation ability instead hero.
i dont know how can u use 2 immolation same time so i think to make dummy unit what activate immolation 2 when u want (example u make a dummy ability based on channel with immolation icon, when u click to it then u activate immolation on ur dummy what is flying unit, without collosion so can have same postion than ur hero, so kinda his immolation look like ur coz it is around u if he allways in ur position)

another ideea i dont really got... maybe do 2 dummy ability and when u click to dummy ability 1 then add immolation 1 and activate it, if u click to second then remove immolation 1 and add immolation2 and activate it but this i think more worse since u can see +1 immolation icon :/

 

[hamsterpellet]

But, my friend, that's exactly the problem, I can't make a dummy ability based on Channel as you said... Because with channel, my hero stops walking to perform the spell! That's exactly the point! If I use Channel, my hero stops walking etc. When I use Immolation itself, this does not happen...

 

[shadowvzs]

But, my friend, that's exactly the problem, I can't make a dummy ability based on Channel as you said... Because with channel, my hero stops walking to perform the spell! That's exactly the point! If I use Channel, my hero stops walking etc. When I use Immolation itself, this does not happen...

Delete: Art - animation
Art Caster
Caster attachment point1
Art effect
Art - target
Target Attachment point 1
Data - Options - check in visible
Art duration set to 0
Data - Follow Through Tome to 0,
Disable other abilities to false
Data Base order id - another ability order what ability dont have ur hero

this maybe stop the movement but only when u cast, so for 0.x sec
most important steps are there

 

[hamsterpellet]

Look, even with that configuration, the hero stops walking. I don't want him to stop walking. So, Channel is completely out. I could use Mana Shield, as I explained, or Defend, etc. I explained everything on the last "main" post.

 

[shadowvzs]

Look, even with that configuration, the hero stops walking. I don't want him to stop walking. So, Channel is completely out. I could use Mana Shield, as I explained, or Defend, etc. I explained everything on the last "main" post.

but same methode with mana shield, or defend since the point is if u cast lets say mana shield then turn on dummy immolation on dummy unit and turn on the dummy unit following trigger (i mean turn on coz with activate mana shield u make a boolean to true and when u deactivate mana shield then boollean is false and deactivated the dummy unit immolation)

 

[hamsterpellet]

Look my friend, I already know that I can detect when Defend is activated / deactivated and do my things. So, let's get back to this:

PROBLEM 02. What about when the hero dies/is paused/goes out of mana?

I made a small investigation by myself: I discovered that any hero with the Immolation ability learnt, when it dies, is revived, is paused or unpaused, it automatically is ordered to "unimmolation". This helps a little. BUT, it doesn't happen to Mana Shield, I mean, the ability is, yes, deactivated (the hero dies with Mana Shield activated. When revives, Mana Shield is already deactivated), but there is no "manashieldoff" order (perhaps it works with Defend, but I didn't tested yet). Also, when the hero goes out of mana with the Immolation active, the Immolation automatically is deactivated, BUT there is no "unimmolation" order this time.​

What do you suggest me to do?

hamsterpellet

 

[shadowvzs]

Look my friend, I already know that I can detect when Defend is activated / deactivated and do my things. So, let's get back to this:



hamsterpellet

i dont see any problem with go out from mana and die

die=> if ur hero die then kill dummy with dummy immolation
out of mana=>stop effect of ability, caster=ur hero, caster mana lower than x then kill dummy with immolation

or if target have stun buff same, pauseing with trigger only way what i know is everytime before pause kill dummy unit and recreate after unpause

 

[Meticulous]

Ability B
- Is a toggle ability (like immolation)
- Has no "activation mana-cost"
- Drains 9 mana per second
- Has no cooldown
- Can be freely activated/deactivated
- When activated, the hero gains a passive aura ability (inside a disabled spellbook).
- When deactivated, the hero loses that passive ability.[/INDENT]

1

• Start
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability
  • Conditions
    • (Ability being cast) Equal to Berserk
    • ((Triggering unit) is in YourGroup) Equal to False
  • Actions
    • Unit - Add Spell Book to (Triggering unit)
    • Unit Group - Add (Triggering unit) to YourGroup

2

• Mana drain
  • Events
    • Time - Every 0.33 seconds of game time
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • Unit Group - Pick every unit in YourGroup and do (Actions)
      • Loop - Actions
        • Unit - Set mana of (Picked unit) to ((Mana of (Picked unit)) - 3.00)
        • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
          • If - Conditions
            • (Mana of (Picked unit)) Less than or equal to 1.00
          • Then - Actions
            • Unit - Remove Spell Book from (Picked unit)
            • Unit Group - Remove (Picked unit) from YourGroup
          • Else - Actions

3

• End
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Starts the effect of an ability
  • Conditions
    • (Ability being cast) Equal to Berserk
    • ((Triggering unit) is in YourGroup) Equal to True
  • Actions
    • Unit - Remove Spell Book from (Triggering unit)
    • Unit Group - Remove (Triggering unit) from YourGroup

4

• End
  • Events
    • Unit - A unit Dies
  • Conditions
    • ((Triggering unit) is in YourGroup) Equal to True
  • Actions
    • Unit - Remove Spell Book from (Triggering unit)
    • Unit Group - Remove (Triggering unit) from YourGroup

Berserk doesn't interrupt orders and has no noticeable effects with all of the fields set to 0 and the duration to .01

This ability should have an initial cost because of the way auras work. After you remove the aura, its benefits will still persist for a few seconds. If it has no initial cost it can be abused by activating and deactivating it every few seconds, basically negating its cost.

If you want the activate and deactivate abilities to have different tooltips, create two abilities based on Berserk and remove one and add the other whenever one is cast.

 

[hamsterpellet]

To shadowvzs:

First of all, remember that there is no dummy unit, because I don't actually need two Immolations running. Review my post where I said ability A and ability B.

##########

To Meticulous:

Thank you man!!
And I had an idea:
Inside the trigger 2, i could add all conditions that mean the ability should be stopped, for example:

if unit has buff Stunned , remove unit from YourGroup

So

Question 1 - What causes a normal Immolation ability stop in War3? Obviously: dying, being removed and going out of mana. But: Being paused? Being stunned? Entering a cargo hold? Being silenced?

Question 2 - Hey Meticulous, why did you suggested Berserk, that is an ability that has no activation/deactivation? Why didn't you suggested Mana Shield or Defend, for example?​

hamsterpellet

 

[Meticulous]

Question 1 - What causes a normal Immolation ability stop in War3? Obviously: dying, being removed and going out of mana. But: Being paused? Being stunned? Entering a cargo hold? Being silenced?

Question 2 - Hey Meticulous, why did you suggested Berserk, that is an ability that has no activation/deactivation? Why didn't you suggested Mana Shield or Defend, for example?​

hamsterpellet

1. Silence, death, lack of mana, being loaded into a transport. Being stunned does not, so I would think being paused shouldn't if you're using the pause as a pseudo-stun for certain abilities - if you're pausing units to play a cinematic you could instead freeze the mana drain by disabling the periodic trigger and then re-enabling it.

2. It was the first thing that came to mind that doesn't interrupt current orders and has no potential effects that can't be nulled in the object editor. When I take the time to think about it, I can't see any issue with using Defend or Mana Shield, but I wasn't sure at the time. The only other ability I know of that doesn't interrupt orders would be Divine Shield, but even a .01 second invulnerability can have side effects, like dropping aggression and removing buffs.

 

[hamsterpellet]

1. I tested the pause. When a unit with Immolation active is paused, the effect on the caster still stands and the buff in the caster also remains, but damage stops being dealt and effects on the enemies affected disappears as well. When it's unpaused the effect and the buff in the caster disappears. So, my conclusion is that being paused ends Immolation, yes.

In my map there is no cargo hold, so we don't need to think in the "is loaded into a transport". By the way, it would be easy, there is an unit event exactly like that.

So, inside my Mana Drain trigger, I will add a check to the silence buff and, in that case, remove the unit form the Group and remove the SpellBook skill from the unit. And, I'll check all my triggers to Pause unit calls and just after that I will remove the unit form the Group and remove the SpellBook skill from the unit.

2. I intend to use Defend. How can I null all effects of that skill through the Object Editor? I mean, how should I configure the Defend ability? Do you think that side-effects may occur?

Take a look in how I made it at this post's attachment.

 

[hamsterpellet]

Okay, I made more progress. Everything worked fine. I didn't detected any side-effects form defend, except the following:

1. I can't put manacost / cooldown in the defend skill.

2. When activated, my unit automanically puts his shield in front of it (positioning to "defend"). I don't want this to happen...

 

[Mr.Foxy]

and I want to say thanks to PeeKay, pSy, WILLTHEALMIGHTY, Epsilon, -Berz-, trippledota and Pyramidhe@d. Thank you.

Is there pSy or sPy?
Hehe, more intrusting please.
Hi, nice map.
Good work. You english not bad (I Think) So.

 

[hamsterpellet]

Haah!!! Thank you very much sir!
Merry Christmas! (=

It's sPy, for his models, my mistake...
Heh, just when you praised my English, I'll ask: what is intrusting?

Anyways, thank you very much for that "Hi, nice map."
It's just like a Christmas gift for me.... (=

I'm preparing a new version for my map, it will be v5.19 , you can tell it a Christmas Edition, I'll launch it as soon as this thread gets solved... So, come on guys! Help me!

1. I can't put manacost / cooldown in the defend skill.

2. When activated, my unit automanically puts his shield in front of it (positioning to "defend"). I don't want this to happen...

hamsterpellet

 

[hamsterpellet]

Bump!

Okay, I made more progress. Everything worked fine. I didn't detected any side-effects form defend, except the following:

1. I can't put manacost / cooldown in the defend skill.

2. When activated, my unit automanically puts his shield in front of it (positioning to "defend"). I don't want this to happen...

 

[Meticulous]

I'd recommend just using Berserk or Mana Shield in that case.

 

[hamsterpellet]

Yeah. So, just wondering...
At the Mana Shield's default buff, it is written:

Text - Tooltip - Extended: This unit has a Mana Shield; it is temporarily protected from physical damage and negative spells.​

Which are those negative spells ?

 

[shadowvzs]

Yeah. So, just wondering...
At the Mana Shield's default buff, it is written:

Text - Tooltip - Extended: This unit has a Mana Shield; it is temporarily protected from physical damage and negative spells.​

Which are those negative spells ?

not abilities what make spell damage? (firebolt, chain lightning etc?)

 

[hamsterpellet]

Are you sure?
And more, does it mean that units won't be able to cast negative spells on me?
For example, let's suppose that the Chain Lightning is considered a negative spell by Mana Shield.

Unit A (owner: Player 1) has the Chain Lightning ability.
Unit B (owner: Player 2) has Mana Shield active. So it is "protected from negative spells".

Player 1 is enemy of Player 2.
If I (Player 1) select my unit A and order it to Chain Lightning (Unit B), will war3 show me an error message "unable to target mana-shielded units" or "target is protected from negative spells" or whatever? If not, what will happen then?

 

[rysnt11]

^it's not like that
Mana shield not 'protecting' directly like spell shield
The mana shield protecting the caster's hp from negative spell, the negative spell still can be targeted to the unit with mana shield, but the negative spell (chain lightning, fire bolt, etc) will decrease the mana of the mana shield user than decreasing the hp of the mana shield user

 

[shadowvzs]

Are you sure?
And more, does it mean that units won't be able to cast negative spells on me?
For example, let's suppose that the Chain Lightning is considered a negative spell by Mana Shield.

Unit A (owner: Player 1) has the Chain Lightning ability.
Unit B (owner: Player 2) has Mana Shield active. So it is "protected from negative spells".

Player 1 is enemy of Player 2.
If I (Player 1) select my unit A and order it to Chain Lightning (Unit B), will war3 show me an error message "unable to target mana-shielded units" or "target is protected from negative spells" or whatever? If not, what will happen then?

protecting and immunity isnt same, at spell shield if i know the description say u are immune to spells, like at protection scroll case u reicive just less damage coz protection < immunity

 

[Meticulous]

If you're asking does it confer magic immunity or negative buff immunity - no, it does not. IIRC mana shield with all values set to nothing will do absolutely nothing.

 

[hamsterpellet]

So, my conclusion:
When it's said "protection from negative spells" it is nothing but "mana shield will cause you to take less damage from spells because it will use some mana instead (exactly Mana Shield)". So, I set all values to zero / 100% when needed and it should work perfectly.

(=

By the way, what's IIRC?
(I think it is one of those abreviations like ASAP or AFAIK, let's see, hehe)

PS: I think I already solved everything using Immolation for Ability A and two Berserk skills (SkillTurnOn and SkillTurnOff)... So Mana Shield isn't really needed anymore. But I am curious, we should not stop discussing because of that.​

 

[hamsterpellet]

Bump!

 

[hamsterpellet]

Allright, no one want to discuss this. My problem was already solved. My intention was simply to proceed discussing that, but ok

thread may be closed.

 

[MajorKaza]

I think the safest way will be set mana drain to 0 and control all by triggers.
but...
Did you tried old divine shield or better, old wind walk? Wind walk should have all same orders like immolation. Only one think to control would be mana drain.