Having issues Selecting a new model

[Whitelegend]

Hello Hive People,
I thank you again for your help on a previous matter but now i have a issue with a model i have been working on for quite awhile. When i had finished changing all the texture positions for my model i had proceeded to implement it into WE. Fortunately i had no problems with naming paths or anything. So after i reran WE my model showed up like it was suppose to. However i seem to be having a selection/pivot issue. I attached a picture for reference. On the right side you should see War3Model editor open and WE open on the left side. In WE you should see my model selected, and you should also see the shadow position(i did not change the shadow from the original unit i chose). For some reason i noticed i couldn't select my model until i selected it near the shadow. or even clicked the shadow or whatnot. But when i try to click my model away from the shadow i can't seem to select it. I also noticed in game that because of the position of the model with the shadow it moves strangely. It seemed pivoted to that shadow. So i looked on hive for some help before i came here. i found this thread: Collision Shapes, How to Make Your Model Selectable
So i did the tutorial and as you can see in war3model editor on the right side, I did add a collision shape and everything it showed me. But after i did i saved it, i reimported it into WE and for some reason there were no changes in the selecting behavior. It still seems to be pivoted strangely with that original shadow. Yes i have reimported it several times with no luck, so i tried looking through some of the hive threads again and found "Modeling and Animation 101". But it didn't seem to give me any new information that may help my cause. I have also uploaded my model and texture if someone wanted to see if they can take a look at it directly.
Sincerely, Whitelegend

 

[Remixer]

So i did the tutorial and as you can see in war3model editor on the right side, I did add a collision shape and everything it showed me. But after i did i saved it, i reimported it into WE and for some reason there were no changes in the selecting behavior. It still seems to be pivoted strangely with that original shadow

The pivoting has nothing to do with collision shapes. The reason the model is weirdly pivoted is due to the placement of the vertices - the whole car's rigging is not centered around origin point (X=0, Y=0) which Warcraft 3 uses as the 'central point' of the model. So, to fix the off-centeredness, you need to go to the Model Editor's Editor (View -> Model Editor) and change the coordinates of the whole car through Translation. You can also use other tools, like Retera's Model Studio that might allow same change but just easier.

Collision Shapes are something that allows players to select the model without any visible 'material' placed in that area, but they are not exactly required as long as you calculate extents (See Image) correctly.

Regarding you model, there seems to be a lot of Geosets and they all use the same Texture, so you could basically merge all the Geosets into one Geoset only and make the model a lot more efficient. There seems to be quite a few faces also placed at same coordinates, causing this flickering of the different faces through each other. Something you might want to fix.

 

[Whitelegend]

I see, thank you, this helped out a lot. This is my first real model that required me to heavily learn how to use War3 Model editor, and Mdlvis. Took me quite awhile but then I eventually produced this.
I took your advice and made adjustments with Mdlvis. Then I went back in and deleted the collision shape at first didn't quite like it then just readded it and made some adjustments. I originally moved the model because i was still learning how to use collision shapes. I didn't quite know how to do Vertex 2(just figured out how it works now) so I did it just on Vertex 1 and adjusted my vehicle. I didn't know that it would affect it's placement entirely. But anyway the adjustments that were made fixed it up, it works fantastic now, so thank you.

To respond to your geoset comment, I was having trouble making this truck in Mdlvis and accidentally selecting other vertices when I was working on a new part of the truck. Honestly me making it with so many geosets was actually a accident. I didn't know what detach as geoset meant until i realized it helped me NOT select what I didn't want to edit. So I totally took advantage of it. It also helped a bit when I went into war 3 model editor and was messing with thr texture position. Was a lot of learning and mathematics.

Anyway for your comment about faces being on the same coordinates, faces are what 3 vertices together correct? Or the triangles? Also elaborate abit more? I looked at the truck and wasn't sure what you meant. I did do a few edits on places that won't be seen, and removed them. And am even tempted to remove off the bottom because it ain't like anyone was gonna see that haha.

 

[Remixer]

Then I went back in and deleted the collision shape at first didn't quite like it then just readded it and made some adjustments

Collision shapes can be useful, so by default it is good to have them, but them alone usually don't fix any issues very well (apart from certain scenarios).

I didn't quite know how to do Vertex 2(just figured out how it works now) so I did it just on Vertex 1 and adjusted my vehicle.

I would recommend you to get Reteras' Model Studio, a tool of a newer era for Warcraft 3 models that lets you, for example, edit vertices and Geosets way better than for example, Warcraft 3 Model Editor lets you. Mdlvis is useful for certain things until you move to more advanced tools that are also harder to learn. The downside with Mdlvis is that it very easily does things you absolutely don't want to do, without giving any warnings about them - especially when playing around with bones.

To respond to your geoset comment, I was having trouble making this truck in Mdlvis and accidentally selecting other vertices when I was working on a new part of the truck.

This is something that Retera's Model Studio would help you with, as it allows you to select distinct groups, instead of only individual vertices from a single Geoset. It also supports face and Geoset selection.

It also helped a bit when I went into war 3 model editor and was messing with thr texture position. Was a lot of learning and mathematics.

I personally have never done texture positions (that is called UV editing or UV wrapping) on Warcraft 3 Model Editor (also known as Magos Model Editor, or simply Magos). And I would not recommend it, though there might be certain individuals who do it. Its just not the best program to do it on.

Anyway for your comment about faces being on the same coordinates, faces are what 3 vertices together correct? Or the triangles? Also elaborate abit more?

Faces are a plane that three vertices (or more, but in Warcraft only three) form together to display a 'face'. Note that having three vertices does not mean you have a face, you would need to connect those three vertices to form a face (these connections are called 'edges'). A simplification: a three-dimensional cube has 8 vertices that form 6 faces. In two dimensions, the closest equivalent would be a square - 4 vertices and 1 face. In some programs (such as Warcraft 3) 4-vertice-faces are now supported however, so the face would be 'triangulated', essentially split in half to form 2 triangle-faces, resulting in 4 vertices and 2 faces. This would also happen with the cube, essentially doubling the number of faces.

Faces are the element in your model that the user 'sees' since the texture is laid on the faces. Faces also have an orientation (which way they are facing (front and backside), this is called 'normal' of the face, a property used to calculate lighting on the model.

 

[Whitelegend]

Remixer, from your comments about reteras model studio and Magos, it sounds like there are many other tools and programs i can use for this old game?(i remember someone on another thread write "milkshape" for example) I would very much like to know what they are so I can look them up on the tool list here on hive to check them alll out. I did almost a week ago try to look up Magos on there, but after looking through all the pages i couldn't find it at all. I was thinking maybe it was outdated and they removed it. But from what your saying it's a smaller tool within warcraft 3 Model editor?

Also about the "UV editing" it took me so long, I had to write down which vertices were connected together to which face and then go through each individual one and put in the proper number for the texture position and your telling me there was a much better way? Oh good it sounds like a dream come true.

To respond to your faces comment, when I originally made the truck, of course it was all black because none of the texture was in place, I had far less vertices and faces as you call them. But when I thought I was finished and started the UV editing, when I placed a texture position I realized I had to go back and separate every single triangle to it's own vertices. The texture would bleed over to another face it was connected to and I was like uhh I don't want that. So I dissected and added additional vertices to those faces and repositioned them. Is this what you meant about when you mentioned my model having "There seems to be quite a few faces also placed at the same coordinates"? And from what I am reading are you seriously telling me I didn't quite have to do it that way either? Sounds like another dream come true.

 

[Remixer]

Remixer, from your comments about reteras model studio and Magos, it sounds like there are many other tools and programs i can use for this old game?(i remember someone on another thread write "milkshape" for example) I would very much like to know what they are so I can look them up on the tool list here on hive to check them alll out.

Naturally, I don't know all the tools that can be used for editing and creating Warcraft 3 models, but reading the Tutorial section can be quite useful, especially in the beginning. Myself I use Blender for rigging and UV-wrapping and use Retera's Model Studio to convert the model files created in Blender from .obj files into .mdl files. Magos' Model Editor I use for editing of nodes, animations, materials, Geoset Animations and other more technical things. More complex animations I usually do in Retera's Model Studio.

I did almost a week ago try to look up Magos on there, but after looking through all the pages i couldn't find it at all. I was thinking maybe it was outdated and they removed it. But from what your saying it's a smaller tool within warcraft 3 Model editor?

Magos Model Editor is an alias for Warcraft 3 Model Editor. As far as I know, Magos was the name of the original author so the name lives on.

Also about the "UV editing" it took me so long, I had to write down which vertices were connected together to which face and then go through each individual one and put in the proper number for the texture position and your telling me there was a much better way? Oh good it sounds like a dream come true.

Yes, the more practical way is being able to drag the vertices and individual faces on top of the surface themselves and see the changes in real-time. I think Mdlvis has an okay-ish UV-wrapping function that you can access by Pressing F2 (if I remember correctly). It's been years since I touched that tool. Like I said, I do the UV-wrapping in Blender. Since it's just far superior.

But when I thought I was finished and started the UV editing, when I placed a texture position I realized I had to go back and separate every single triangle to it's own vertices. The texture would bleed over to another face it was connected to and I was like uhh I don't want that. So I dissected and added additional vertices to those faces and repositioned them. Is this what you meant about when you mentioned my model having "There seems to be quite a few faces also placed at the same coordinates"?

This is very likely a result of the UV-wrapping done in a program that does it very lousily.

 

[Whitelegend]

Well, thank you very much remixer for your patience in my questions and giving me a lot of things that really helped, to consider, and to try. If I get stuck again I will try looking through posts like before and if nothing I will make another post.
Sincerely, Whitelegend