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Gravedigger TD (a unique TD like map, not just another TD)

Discussion in 'Map Development' started by Gravedigger, Jul 7, 2007.

?

What would you rate it? (don't consider submitted bugs)

Poll closed Jul 27, 2007.
  1. 1 (yawn)

    25.0%
  2. 2 (kinda boring)

    6.3%
  3. 3 (decent)

    31.3%
  4. 4 (exciting)

    37.5%
  5. 5 (amazing)

    25.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Jirinal

    Jirinal

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    Hehe okay just say if you dont want to optimize your map, i expected you come up with something like that after reading the thread.
     
  2. Mini-Me

    Mini-Me

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    Actually a lot of people care about that. Right now your td looks like a mess. You should make the organisation of the towers your top priority. It's really hard to pick what to build and I also agree that the descriptions are not that helpfull. Since no matter what mode you pick, you get the same builder, and as it looks like a mess, you kinda ruin the game from the start.
    That's also a bad attitude you got there, "it's so early version I dont care what it looks like". I personally like to polish my maps as good as I can before releasing them to the public, but that's just me, you can do it that way too but you arent giving a good picture of yourself or your maps.
     
  3. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger

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    I am trying to polish it and have listened to the feedback you provided in your post, however I already have over 110 towers (not sure of exact number), I simply don't have the time to go through and make sure every button to upgrade a tower is in the exact same spot.

    Actually, you get two builders, and in one mode you don't get a builder at all. Also the only reason I keep ignoring everything you say to change about the map is that you won't actually tell me what to fix. The tooltips and buttons seem fine to me, but if they don't seem fine to you, maybe you could say something like, "The tooltips should say how much damage each tower does." instead you just say "The tooltips suck," maybe they do, I haven't gotten enough feedback about the map to know whether they suck or not, but maybe you could simply tell me what to do.
    Sorry if this or the last post seem rude or whatever, but usually the point of posting negative comments about maps should be help improve them, rather then constantly complaining. As I have said, it hasn't been tested by enough people, so I've gotten plenty of negative comments, I have been able to fix most of the problems people have told me about, because they have told me exactly what the problem is. Again, sorry if sound rude, but I just can't read minds.


    Also, I've posted v0.4, which includes many gameplay enhancements based on the feedback I have received (mostly while testing on Battle.net). As well as many other improvements. It also has a new class:

    Healing (level 1-Magic Box) All of these towers give units health when they attack, of course they work the best when you use to attack allied towers
     
  4. Mini-Me

    Mini-Me

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    It seems like you got very low stantards for quality, atleast compared to mine. Im not giving you details on what to fix because that would take too much of my time. I'm telling you on what areas you could improve imo. One area being the organisation of the towers. I tested out your map once again, the line survivor mode, and here's something I gathered:

    You start out with over 500 gold, the most expensive tower was something like 60 gold, the others were average of 20 gold and there's 11 towers to choose from. You, as the creator, know exacly what to build. Normal first time player is clueless on what to build and on top of all the towers are in no order, they are in a mess, your choise is just to build some random towers not knowing if they are any good. You overwhelm the player right at the beginning of your map. Organise the towers, make requirements for them (example: you need to build tower X to be able to build tower Y).

    I played the map with one computer, as you cant start the map alone. First time I made the player4 as computer. First wave the computer naturally leaks, the footmen were just running the volcano up and down, they were not removed. Game over, I had to rehost.
    Second try, I made player3 as the computer this time. On the leaderboard there were player2 and player4 displayed. The creeps spawned at the right lane, and the lives were reduced from player4.
    After few levels player3 and player4 were defeated. When there was the first boss level, the kodo, it spawned for player4 (empty lane) and it run to the volcano and kept running it up and down. Game over, once again.

    Some tower descriptions are not true, one example the archer upgrade. It says it increases range when it infact doesnt increase range at all.

    Balance, non-existing. I build as many brutal towers in the beginning as I could, that's about 40 of them. They do about 120dmg very fast. First wave footies, hp 350. Died within the first millimetre, not bad for a first wave. Wave 4, sorcs, hp 1200. They advanced a whole centimetre. Nice. And I still hadnt build a single tower since the first wave. The creeps get like 100-400 hp more per level, still same armor. The peons, level 9, had same hp as the wolves, level 5. No difference in armor or anything. Seriously, did you balance this map at all? I got all the way to the first boss without building a single tower since the ones I build in the beginning (didnt get further due the bug mentioned earlier).

    All of this I got from two short games alone. And there you are whining how you cant fix anything because people dont give you feedback, for crying out loud, test your own bloody map and use that head of yours if you got one. There are bugs and imbalances that even a blind person couldnt miss.
     
  5. Preskooldude

    Preskooldude

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    Some things I found ludicrously wrong:

    Air towers. After knockback, they seem to be able to attack towers, or something. In any case, there goes my doom tower/Air tower strategy.

    Arcane Tower. Its good to know that my Arcane Tower's Aura of Blight heals nearby undead units. Question: Why the hell would I want to heal what I'm supposed to kill?

    Some towers can attack the enemies in the opponents lane too.

    "Frost Armor: This unit has increased Armor" Thanks Arcane Tower, you really helped!

    Edit on this line, because The guy above me already stated it (>.<) /Knock self on head

    Conjuration Towers: Try putting them in a maze. Not fun. Skeles WILL block pathing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2007
  6. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger

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    1. I spend much more time improving my maps then it appears you do on yours

    2. Alright, thanks for the feedback, I will make these improvements

    3. You can start the map alone, but there are triggers to still kill player 2's units though, why were you puting player 3 or 4 on AI anyway? I'm going to fix the leaderboard though

    4. It does increase range, just ignore the default stat stuff, the range on the Elven archer, is a lot more then the skeleton one

    5. The first few levels aren't supposed to be that hard, some people I've played do struggle with completing them though, every ten levels the difficulty gets a lot higher, and a bunch of arrow towers probably won't kill the first boss

    6. I've tested it many times, everyone plays differently, maybe when you played there was bugs X and Y, when I played there was only Z, I fixed Z, now I need to now what as many of the other problems are, so I can fix them, someone whining that there are bugs doesn't help me fix them

    1. I think I might have forgot to put in on the tooltip so I'll add it, but if your air towers blow units right in front of a tower there is a half second period where they might decide to attack, without this, people will just mass air towers and can never lose

    2. I guess I should specify this too, your towers are undead units (that's why they're summoned), the race of the creeps is human, so your not healing them

    3. Towers attack all enemies, if they are placed close enough to anything that is an enemies, they will attack it

    4. I can't figure out how to change what that buff says, but it actually damages them, also it increases the armor of allies

    5. Yay, I thought it would make they're placement more strategic, but I can see how it could get annoying, I'll change it
     
  7. Preskooldude

    Preskooldude

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    Stealing your number system now:

    1. "Black Hole Effect" can be selected. Put locust on it or something

    2. "Black Hole Effect" is never removed. It just stays there and tanks out the damage that the enemy is trying to give.

    3. Try using the deer tower to move units into the enemy lanes and watch them leak. Fun fun fun! (Any they get really pissed at you)

    4. Kael's aura of invuln doesn't work...

    5. Black Hole = Really, really rigged. I just put a max lvl brute damage thing with splash next to it and watch them get harassed to death.

    GJ on the map, btw~
     
  8. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger

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    1+2. Warcraft let me use it as an actual "special effect," it's considered a "unit," so I have to wait til the effect ends to delete it, however it then spawns another one every time it attacks

    3. Yay I thought that was pretty fun too, so is this good or bad?

    4. Actually that was a replacement for a different ability he had that didn't work either, so I guess I'll replace it again

    5. How did you get enough gold to get the black hole and the max level brute? I'm going to make the radius of the black hole smaller
     
  9. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger

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    v0.41 is available with many improvements considering feedback by Mini-Me and Preskool Dude. This version has also been slightly updated with v0.41b, which fixes a major glitch in the Line Survivor mode.
     
  10. Jirinal

    Jirinal

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    You should realy consider adding ground textures...
    I made today a public test and following thing happend.

    1 Left before the game started and sayd, this map is bugged there arnt any mobs.

    2. The second player left and sayd this sucks this guy kills my mobs.

    3. the last player left saying dota is alot better then this, and the creator shall burn in hell.

    The first thing you should add are ground textures, so you know how much space is between each tower.
     
  11. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger

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    1. I don't know what he was talking about, their was a glitch (fixed in v0.41b) that could keep creeps from spawning if player 4 leaked, however I checked my triggers, unless you play Rumble Pit mode there's no way that level 1 won't spawn.

    2. I am currently working on a system for my map that will make it so that towers won't attack over lanes and up to 8 people can play.

    3. Well unfortunately there are a lot of "people like that" (substitute whatever word you want in the quotes). Look at threads for maps here, other websites, on Battle.net. They'll whine about anything a little different from their precious dota. Try playing that Warcraft card game thing on Battle.net, it's a great and unique map, but so many people will whine about it and leave within 10 minutes.

    4. The basic, arrow tower ground texture looks stupid on some towers, so I've used the ground textures for decoration. You can use your builder to test your maze of towers, if he can get through, so can the creeps. I'll give him a fake ability so that everyone knows that, but you can just have him go through your maze, and if he gets through, you know you haven't blocked pathing. Also, while placing towers the green square underneath shows their pathing map.
     
  12. Dungla

    Dungla

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    Howdyho,
    after 30 minutes of playing on my own I can tell you:
    -You should give a hint that invisible towers can detect invisible enemys. Also it would be nice if you mention some specials like "can only be attacked by chaos" before the wave spawns.
    -I don't like it that the airunits fly on the side of my line... the flying boss could only be attacked by half of my towers.
    -The healing tower (1) should heal towers without players commands.
    -The venom tower (3) ist organic and can't be healed by the second builder

    And two really bad things:
    1) Venom tower (4)... I tested it three times... it damages your towers too... even itself!
    2) A mystical bug: Suddenly some of my towers were destroyed. I can't figure out why. Perhaps it has something to do with those gravity towers I build, but I got really no idea. I know it doesn't help you much, but I just want you to tell there is a problem.

    I'll test other modes tomorrow...
    ,Dungla Wandara
     
  13. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger

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    First, thanks for all the testing, you will be added to map credits as a tester.
    1. Alright, hints will be added
    2. Towers are to high for air units to fly over, so they usually go on the side, I can't figure out a way to avoid this, however in some modes they will go through your maze. Also, by the chicken will land sometimes and then becomes a land unit.
    3. After multiple hours of trying to get them to heal towers automatically
    I decided it's probably impossible, because then they attack enemies automatically instead
    4. Thanks, I'll fix that
    5. I'll go through all the toxic towers effects again,they need to be rebalanced anyway, I thought I might have noticed a similar problem during my own test yestarday
    6. If you had a lot of gravity disruptors then that's probably why, attacks from the level 1 chaos appear at a completely random spot, so I guess you got unlucky. I'll check my triggers to make sure there isn't any other possible way this could have happened.
     
  14. MagnusCalgar

    MagnusCalgar

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    Spray towers do not have a base making it really hard to maze / place them

    the versions need a lot more explination then they are given on the buttons
    we wont know what most of them are honestly

    the minimap image is annoying but i guess that is your preference

    using only a few types of towers and no blocking my towers were being destroyed every wave

    that is the 3 basics, the skeleton marksman, and the upgraded marksman to a centaur
    the entoxicate upgrade for poison
    and the other upgrade to basic tower i dont remember atm



    it seems as though you have put alot of work into this so here are my suggestions

    simplify up some of the terrain. it is really distracting even to the point of hard to work with
    the mini map image is also hard to work around even more so with so much map available. if you want to keep the image possibly use a black out on the rest of the map and lock camera options per mode so that we only see the section we are using
    find out what is killing towers and give some indication that our towers are dying ( i recieved no attack warning ) just suddenly didn't have half my maze


    this map looks like with some fine tuning it could be played for hours but atm it is to hard to even try and test it much

    keep up the hard work
     
  15. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger

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    1. alright, fixed, will be in next version
    2+5. sorry, I can't tell what your trying to say on either of these
    3+7. okay, I have now made it calculate camera bounds for each mode, I have kept the minimap image because the default calculated minimap image didn't work for this
    4+8. I don't know why towers seem to sometimes disappear, I'll check the triggers and hopefully fix it
    6. Alright I'll work on the terrain, but what mode did you play so I know which one to change

    Thank you for testing and providing some useful feedback, you will also be added to the credits as a tester
     
  16. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger

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    v0.43 has been released, fixs many things posted above by people who tested the last one. Adds a few new features including a completly new level with a mode to play there. This new mode is called Survivor, there's a description below.

    Survivor Mode-Basically a standard survivor TD mode. Each player has there own separate little maze. Creeps will spawn for each player and then have to go through this maze. You build around the maze to kill the creeps before they reach the end. Be careful with air levels who can fly over pretty much everything except your towers, first air level is level 15.

    Commands showing when each special level is (undead, invis, flying, spell imune, etc.) will be added in the next version, a voting system is also planed for the next version. Version 0.5 will have at least 10 modes
     
  17. MagnusCalgar

    MagnusCalgar

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    what i mean by #2 is that when we start the game we get a dialog box with the names of all the different types of games. I don't know what most of those names mean and I don't think many other people do. So i would suggest either adding some type of description to the game choice buttons OR change how we choose the mode to something more like a small arena with a chooser unit and description text triggered by going close to the appropriate mode

    #5 was simply adding more information to 4 so that you could possibly track down the problem

    i was playing fill the gave i think but the same idea goes for all of the terrain. i just happened to be on the worst of them
     
  18. Gravedigger

    Gravedigger

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    I think I have fixed the disappearing towers thing. The next version is going to add descriptions for all the modes as well as a voting system for selecting them.
     
  19. PheoniX_VII

    PheoniX_VII

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    Well I tried to host this as it sounded cool, what I got to try though was totaly unplayable.

    First, the mobs walked 20 yards then stopped. waited 5 secs then walked another 20 yards. some didnt walk at all.
    Second, my towers killed my neighbours towers, I cleared up his whole left wing. not that he had any problems killing the mobs anyway since they walked so slow but.
    I got to level 2 then I quit.
     
  20. Cheesey_111

    Cheesey_111

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    I don't think that the healing towers should do damage i was playing i order them to heal and and they do mare damage then then heal so all my towers died.