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Gravedigger TD (a unique TD like map, not just another TD)

What would you rate it? (don't consider submitted bugs)


  • Total voters
    16
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
Created by Gravedigger5454
Help from Jason X57, Doomhammer, Catch22, Mini-Me, yyz1992, Dungla, MagnusCalgar and Preskooldude

Currently the map is at a beta stage with
v0.47 which is %47 of v1

How it's unique
In most TDs towers will have some special power, but they will all attack in the same way. In my TD their are 16 tower types (22 in v1) and they all attack in a different way. For example, destruction towers are aimed manually at a point, stealth can disappear or reapear whenever you want, and air towers blow enemies away from wherever they're going. Through these unique towers (many cool abilities for towers within their types), the gameplay is already very different from your standard TD, strategies and mazes created have to be completely different if you hope to complete all of the 50 current levels. Also their are seven modes with many more to be added later. Each mode plays very differently, and some are unlike any TD I've ever played. Note that some of the most unique modes are still being implemented.

Map Summary
Gravedigger TD is a unique TD that can be considered a full TD game in it's finished form. Modes and gameplay are intended to ensure it is exciting for every gamer. Casual gamers will love the arcade feel of the Fill The Graves Mode while Hardcore gamers may enjoy the extreme difficulty of the Heroic Endurance mode. While everyone may like playing a match of rumble pit, a hero arena like mini-game. More mini-games and more modes will be constantly added as new versions are released. Post a complete discription of your mode idea and it will be considered to add to future versions, if used you will be given credit.

Map Features List (for v4.7)
-Over 115 unique towers
-5 Unique heroes
-9 Modes
-50 levels with 5 challenging bosses
-4 player multiplayer support (8 in v0.5)
-Exciting singleplayer
-Great Difficulty Curve
-Secret unlockable towers
-Walls between lanes in Line TD based mode can be destroyed
-Optional training levels to fight between levels to gain experience (used to upgrade towers), now available in most modes
-Map size compressed
-5 levels within one Warcraft map
-Creeps only spawn for a player when they are playing (if someone leaves in the middle of a team game, their creep spawn turns off)
-Modes variety created to allow all players to enjoy the map
-Custom minimap preview and ingame image
-Each boss has an ability that he will use to make the boss battles more unique and challenging
-More (honestly, I can't remember all the features)

----------------------------------------------------
Changelog
----------------------------------------------------

v0.12 (alpha)
First released version

v0.2 (alpha)
Multiplayer added
Destuctable walls added
Terrain slightly redesigned
Many new towers added

v0.3 (beta)
Multiplayer improved
Terrain significantly redesigned and improved
5 new modes added
Heroes added
Some balancing issues fixed
Lots of bug and glitch fixes

v0.32 (beta)
New hero added
Custom minimap added
A few glitch fixes

v0.35 (beta)
Major rebalancing
New mode (Line Survivor)
Tutorial added (you must not be player 1 if you wish to do the tutorial)
Bug and glitch fixes
Hero level and ability system greatly enhanced
Some tooltips fixed
Trebuchet icon (previously green) replaced
New towers
Air Strike tower fixed
Flood tower fixed
Move icon changed back to original icon

v0.37 (beta)
3 New tower types added
Some Rebalancing
A few icons changed for towers to prevent duplicates
New builder added, he builds the new classes, you unlock him by beating the first boss
Coliseum level terrain redesigned
Trebuchet icon finally completely fixed

v0.38 (beta)
New tower type: Combustion
New level created for the Line Survivor mode (will be used by other future modes)
Training system significantly improved
Training is now available in more modes
A few Glitch Fixes
Many minor improvements to the map

v0.38b (beta)
A few major glitches have been fixed
Host commands added (see info ingame or the map thread)

v0.4 (beta)
Healing tower class added
Graves now have no pathing map to keep them from getting in the way of creeps or players
Two new special level types added
Items added to the coliseum level
Line Survivor terrain improved a little
Creep health and difficulty increased
Each boss now has a special ability that makes them more difficult to kill
Heroes are a lot weaker
Time before first level increased and time between levels reduced
A few more minor improvements

v0.41 (beta)
Kaels Invulnerability aura replaced
Buttons for builder reorganized
A small tower progression system has been added (some towers aren't available until certain levels)
A few tooltips have been updated
Black hole weakened
Difficulty further increased
Conjuration spawned units no longer block pathing
Blink ability now has 10 levels
A few other small improvements

v0.41b (beta)
Fixes a major bug in Line Survivor Mode

v0.43 (beta)
Survivor mode added
Toxic tower type rebalanced and fixed
Spray towers now have a ground texture
Hints added
Camera bounds and minimap now change based on what mode your playing
Towers no longer mysteriously die
New level, used for Survivor mode
Towers can no longer attack across lanes in Line Survivor mode
Line Survivor terrain changed because some people said it hurt their eyes
A few minor fixes

v0.47 (beta)
Voting system added for selecting modes
Assault mode added
Air towers fixed
New towers added
Information added about modes and special creep levels
Commands added telling you when special levels are
Tutorial temporarily disabled due to the mass about of bugs and glitched previously caused by it
Bug and glitch fixes added

Map is protected, if you want help from it just post whatever you need in this thread.

download here: http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/maps/4567/
 
Last edited:
Level 6
Joined
Apr 26, 2007
Messages
225
Sorry but a TD stay a td. its maby prety unic because of abilyty but it still stay another TD there is nothing amaising (still look good) but if it comes out i will try it (am a td fan :grin: ) Nice job thinking about that anyway:infl_thumbs_up:
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
Sorry but a TD stay a td. its maby prety unic because of abilyty but it still stay another TD there is nothing amaising (still look good) but if it comes out i will try it (am a td fan :grin: ) Nice job thinking about that anyway:infl_thumbs_up:

No, it is a TD in that plays kinda like TDs. If you like TD maps you'll like it. But it has many differences that make it play completely different from any TD I've played. And I've played pretty much every TD, even the boring ones. Most every TD is a recycling of the idea. My TD plays totally different from other TDs. If you've played either of the last two versions please still try v0.3, because I've made it a lot more unique. A major feature of my map is the ability to chose from 6 modes (although it will soon be a lot more then that) each mode plays a lot differently then other modes, requiring different strategies. Also please ignore Windex Glow's vote, I know he hasn't played it because he would have complained about instead of just giving it a 1.
 
Level 16
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
1,277
I dont think anything in this td is balanced :). That's quite an accomplishment. There's too much to improve for me to even begin listing them. This map requires great deal of polishing and balancing. Keep working on it and hopyfully it will be better in future versions.
 
Level 3
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
62
I am building an own TD at the moment.

Your map a total mess.
You dont understand anything.

Why did you change all buttons?
Why that damn minimap image ?
Why dont you crop the map if its too large ?

I dont wanna flame that much, but isnt the main point of a map, that everyone who plays it the first time will understand it in no time ?

Your map might be very good or not. The most important issue is that if it looks crappy for the first time most people wont play it ever again....

Just to say that. ^^
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
I dont think anything in this td is balanced :). That's quite an accomplishment. There's too much to improve for me to even begin listing them. This map requires great deal of polishing and balancing. Keep working on it and hopyfully it will be better in future versions.

I've tested it many times to improve balancing. If you don't think it's balanced could you please list it, maybe in a PM. I will add a tutorial so new players can figure out how to play. I assume your probably talking about the difficulty of the levels, or maybe the towers. So is it to easy or to hard? With a tutorial I think players should be able to figure out how to beat it pretty easily. If you think it's to easy, just play on for a while it gets pretty hard especially level 50 which I've only been able to beat once. If you think it's to hard then send me that list so I can fix it. But I'll be adding the tutorial too.

I am building an own TD at the moment.

Your map a total mess.
You dont understand anything.

Why did you change all buttons?
Why that damn minimap image ?
Why dont you crop the map if its too large ?

I dont wanna flame that much, but isnt the main point of a map, that everyone who plays it the first time will understand it in no time ?

Your map might be very good or not. The most important issue is that if it looks crappy for the first time most people wont play it ever again....

Just to say that. ^^

Alright, it's fine if you actually don't like the map, but please don't try to advertise your map here. Don't say I don't understand anything when you don't understand english. I changed the buttons so they look better. I put in the minimap image because I will be creating multiple levels and the minimap will look like a mess of terrain. I didn't crop the map because it is the right size and there's no reason why I should bother to waste my time to crop and uncrop it as I edit the map (I'm adding more levels).
 
Level 3
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
62
Even if my grammar sucks, I understand english perfectly.
And even if you would not believe me I dont want to advertise my map.

I just want to tell you that I know what I am talking about.

At least I gave ur map a try.

You say you changed the buttons because they should look nicer. Ok for that, but you should consider you play your map all the time... change something test it again, right ?

If I have never played your map and start it, considering I dont play Warcraft that often, because i play funmaps and all and.... whatever just back to the point.

You start the map, you see all these flashy colors and stuff and then you ask urself what shell I do.

Then there are all these nice towers. I could not make up my mind which one to build before the first round, beause I could not understand the system behind all that stuff.

So I build some tower.... just at random, because I dont know them and you have around 12 to choose of.... which is not a very easy decision.

Then I ask myself IS THAT TOWER GOOD ?
Right now i can refer to my knowlege of the Warcraft System.... Lets look at the Creeps Armor and my Attack.... WOW WHAT IS THAT..... I dont understand anything at all..... Is that Normal Attack ? Is that Hero Attack ?

Or I will klick on the tower...... I will not remember any of those symbols at all....

You can not see clearly is that button an order button or upgrade or sell or whatever.....

Ok I wrote a lot, and maybe you might misunderstand me and think I like to flame, whatever.
But the key point is: You invest a lot of time to make your map. And you want to make it as good as you like a map to be, but if other gamers wont play it.... then what ? All your work for nothing ?

Maps are like Games. People will judge your map in the first 5-15 minutes.

Even if your balancing is nice. Your ideas were nice. Even then I WOULD NOT PLAY A MAP THAT I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND IN 5 MINUTES !!!! - Guess most players will give you less time. I just want you to think about it. This should be no flame vs you in person or whatever. Just a clear view how (in my opinion) many players will judge ur map. Maybe it is not too bad to refer to approved systems ? Think about that.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
Even if my grammar sucks, I understand english perfectly.
And even if you would not believe me I dont want to advertise my map.

I just want to tell you that I know what I am talking about.

At least I gave ur map a try.

You say you changed the buttons because they should look nicer. Ok for that, but you should consider you play your map all the time... change something test it again, right ?

If I have never played your map and start it, considering I dont play Warcraft that often, because i play funmaps and all and.... whatever just back to the point.

You start the map, you see all these flashy colors and stuff and then you ask urself what shell I do.

Then there are all these nice towers. I could not make up my mind which one to build before the first round, beause I could not understand the system behind all that stuff.

So I build some tower.... just at random, because I dont know them and you have around 12 to choose of.... which is not a very easy decision.

Then I ask myself IS THAT TOWER GOOD ?
Right now i can refer to my knowlege of the Warcraft System.... Lets look at the Creeps Armor and my Attack.... WOW WHAT IS THAT..... I dont understand anything at all..... Is that Normal Attack ? Is that Hero Attack ?

Or I will klick on the tower...... I will not remember any of those symbols at all....

You can not see clearly is that button an order button or upgrade or sell or whatever.....

Ok I wrote a lot, and maybe you might misunderstand me and think I like to flame, whatever.
But the key point is: You invest a lot of time to make your map. And you want to make it as good as you like a map to be, but if other gamers wont play it.... then what ? All your work for nothing ?

Maps are like Games. People will judge your map in the first 5-15 minutes.

Even if your balancing is nice. Your ideas were nice. Even then I WOULD NOT PLAY A MAP THAT I CAN NOT UNDERSTAND IN 5 MINUTES !!!! - Guess most players will give you less time. I just want you to think about it. This should be no flame vs you in person or whatever. Just a clear view how (in my opinion) many players will judge ur map. Maybe it is not too bad to refer to approved systems ? Think about that.

I understand what your saying. However, what kind of attack you have (hero, chaos, normal, etc.) doesn't make a difference. All 95 have a separate ability. As you said there are 11 towers to choose from at the beginning, these are the basic towers for each type. Each type must be utilized to beat all the levels. I am going to add a new system to tell new players how to play for the next version. This next version will be posted soon with other new features as well. Hopefully everyone will be able to figure out how to play with the next version, please try it when I'm done and tell me if you can figure out what to do in a few minutes.
 
Level 3
Joined
Jun 17, 2007
Messages
62
I still dont like the button change, but however just to tell me what i should do will work.

By the way the doom towers, dont you think 25% chance to instant kill is a little high ? - I just thought it might be 100% but whatever.

Lets play this mindgame: I build 12 of those towers. that are 3 Instant kills. Meaning whenever all towers attack I will kill 3 Enemies instant. ....... That is just imbalanced. Why do I need upgrades if I kill Instant all the time ? ^^

Please fix that.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
Alright a new version will be out soon. Until then, read this before testing:

In Gravedigger TD there are 11 tower types each type attacks in a totally different way. Level 1 of each type is available at the beginning of each mode.
Types:
-Brute (level 1-arrow tower) basic tower class, cheap and moderate stats for everything
-Magic (level 1-arcane tower) similar to brute but weaker, howerver they also cast spells as they attack
-Stealth (level 1-invis tower) kind of weak but can disappear or reappear whenever you wanr just type "hide" or "show" to control your stealth towers
-Conjuration (level 1-skeleton pit) whenever creeps are near a conjuration tower it will summon units to fight for it
-Destruction (level 1-grenade tower) super powerful towers that blow up stuff, however they need to be given a target point which they will occasionally attack
-Doom (level 1-tower of corruption) pretty pathetic and expensive towers, however every time they attack they will get a chance for an instant kill
-Air (level 1-breeze tower) blows creeps in the opposite direction of where they're going DOES NOT HURT CREEPS
-Ally Forming (level 1-Mercenary camp) each of these towers will negotiate with creeps in some way to convince some of them to fight for you
-Toxic (level 1-Slime Tower) these towers all infect attacked creeps with some kind of poison or disease
-Range (level 1-skeleton archer) range based towers will low stats in everything but range (however all stats for all tower types increase as they are upgraded to higher levels)
-Speed (level 1-River Tower) extremely fast towers, awesome if placed correctly

The modes in v0.32 are
Line TD-solo line TD mode battle against creeps and other players to ne the only survivor
Fill The Graves-like Line TD, but you have unlimited lives, your only goal is to be the first to 800 kills (my personal favorite and the best mode choice for noobs)
Hero TD-a team TD played in a separate coliseum level, each player also gets a hero that they can use (my second favorite, plays like a mix of tower and hero defenses)
Rumble Pit-basically a minigame, play a hero arena in the coliseum area and try to be the first to win three rounds
Endurance-Line TD but you have to fight all the bosses and just the bosses without leaking once, last survivor wins
Heroic Endurance-like Hero TD but it's endurance, also bosses spawn for all players no matter what (everyone is on the same team though)
Line Survivor(not in v0.32, will be in v0.35)-like Line TD, but you can't fight other players

I will be rebalancing, adding Line Survivor mode, adding a introductory tutorial type thing for new players and improving the heroes (they can go up to lvl 50 now) for v0.35 (should be posted on July 9th or 10th)

Also thanks to everyone who did post feedback, even though alot of it was negative, it will help me improve the map for future versions
 
Level 7
Joined
Jun 1, 2006
Messages
375
I vote amazing because it ans intersting consept, although could use some work... dude at bunnies.. theyll make u fell happy and you WILL SMILE (imagine the you WILL SMILE in a dark fiendish voice). Peace
()))____CRAYOLA___)))>
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
New version 0.35 added, download from the link at the bottom of the first post. I've made many changes (change log at link) including a lot of rebalancing and adding a tutorial. Player 1 can't acess the tutorial right now because it would mess up my current triggers. I was able to make it pretty quick, it lasts about 30 seconds. Please test the tutorial and tell me if it's any good. Also post any cool tower or hero defense ideas you can think of and I'll add them as a mode. Right now I am going to focus on adding the first mini game. If there's anything you think I should fix/change, but haven't in this version, post them. If anyone can be a beta tester (test each new version when finished and give feedback) then please do and you will added to the map credits. Also if you think there is a problem, please don't say for example, "there's a balancing issue," but actually say what the balancing issue is. Thanks.

Well,it maybe good i will rate it 3 and then i would like to see the results.

try the new version http://hiveworkshop.com/resources_new/maps/4567/

I vote amazing because it ans intersting consept, although could use some work... dude at bunnies.. theyll make u fell happy and you WILL SMILE (imagine the you WILL SMILE in a dark fiendish voice). Peace
()))____CRAYOLA___)))>

could you edit this post with better grammar? I can't tell what you're trying to say.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
New version 0.37 available. Main new feature is three new tower types. These new tower types are:

Chaos (level 1-Gravity Disruptor)
Attacks from chaos towers appear at a random spot

Explosive (level 1-Land Mine)
All explosive towers attack with a circulal explosion attack when triggered, they don't neccasarily get an instant kill though (depends on the creep attacked) they are also very expensive towers

Spray (level 1-Icy Mist)
Spray towers attack in a spray. With a decent range and decent speed their attacks are a spray that quickly hits many enemies. They are also the cheapest.

(the spray towers are now built by the first builder and the stealth towers are now built by the new builder unlockable by beating the first boss)
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
v0.38 now available, main new features are a new level used by Line Survivor mode, and a new tower type:

Combustion (level 1-Powder Keg)-These towers don't attack, however you can attack them to cause them to explode. These explosions also damage allies, so you can set off chain reactions. These towers do respawn. Using these towers properly can alone greatly change the gameplay.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
v0.38b has been added, fixes some major glitches and adds these host commands:
-restart: Restarts the game and allows a new mode to be played (goblin merchants will not be available once a new mode has started)
-nowait: Causes every level to spawn immediately after the previous one
 
Level 6
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
192
Not that bad for a TD but there are so many things that make me quit this map after 5minutes.

1. The tower are bigger then their ground texture which makes checking the pathing harder. Also the pathing of some textures is even smaller then the ground texture.

2. You can destroy the gates and mess up your neighbours lane. You can also kill your neigbours creeps.

3. Some tower are to big and look ugly, or just look ugly.

4. The slow tower stopped the turtles movement totaly.

5. The terrain is boring like in every TD

7. There isnt any real structure in the Button Position, it looked untidy.

8. The times between the levels was to big, and yes there is a command but still it can be lowered.

10. Maybe its my english but eh the tooltips dont give me the informationen i wanted to see. Or i just build the tower without thinking.

11. I dont like the button and icons for some things but eh thats just my opinion.

Yeah i think thats it. But i didnt get the originality part it just looked like every TD i ever played with 1 or 2 extra abilitys.
Also these things above make the map look unproffesional.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
Not that bad for a TD but there are so many things that make me quit this map after 5minutes.

1. The tower are bigger then their ground texture which makes checking the pathing harder. Also the pathing of some textures is even smaller then the ground texture.

2. You can destroy the gates and mess up your neighbours lane. You can also kill your neigbours creeps.

3. Some tower are to big and look ugly, or just look ugly.

4. The slow tower stopped the turtles movement totaly.

5. The terrain is boring like in every TD

7. There isnt any real structure in the Button Position, it looked untidy.

8. The times between the levels was to big, and yes there is a command but still it can be lowered.

10. Maybe its my english but eh the tooltips dont give me the informationen i wanted to see. Or i just build the tower without thinking.

11. I dont like the button and icons for some things but eh thats just my opinion.

Yeah i think thats it. But i didnt get the originality part it just looked like every TD i ever played with 1 or 2 extra abilitys.
Also these things above make the map look unproffesional.

1. The pathing map for each tower is exactly the same and almost perfectly the size of that tower

2. I like to be able to fight everyone else because in that mode it's supposed to be free for all, if you don't like it you can play the Line Survivor mode

3. There aren't enough models by default in the game for me to possibly make them look any better, I've already spent a while finding the best models for each tower, if I start importing to many the map size will get to big

4. The turtles are supposed to be slow anyway, and it' s only level 3, it shouldn't be very hard

5. How could the terrain possibly be further improved without ruining gameplay, I've decorated all the levels as much as possible

6. You forgot six

7. I doubt anyone really cares where the buttons are located, and it would be waste of a lot of time to organize them all perfectly, especially when I'm only at version 0.38

8. Alright, I'll decrease the time between levels, but some modes don't have any already

9. You didn't feel like counting today so you skipped nine too

10. Based on the english you used to write to this, I'd say it's probably your english

11. If you can find better icons while still avoiding repeating icons, I'd be happy to change the current ones
 
Level 6
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
192
Hehe okay just say if you dont want to optimize your map, i expected you come up with something like that after reading the thread.
 
Level 16
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
1,277
7. I doubt anyone really cares where the buttons are located, and it would be waste of a lot of time to organize them all perfectly, especially when I'm only at version 0.38

Actually a lot of people care about that. Right now your td looks like a mess. You should make the organisation of the towers your top priority. It's really hard to pick what to build and I also agree that the descriptions are not that helpfull. Since no matter what mode you pick, you get the same builder, and as it looks like a mess, you kinda ruin the game from the start.
That's also a bad attitude you got there, "it's so early version I dont care what it looks like". I personally like to polish my maps as good as I can before releasing them to the public, but that's just me, you can do it that way too but you arent giving a good picture of yourself or your maps.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
Hehe okay just say if you dont want to optimize your map, i expected you come up with something like that after reading the thread.

I am trying to polish it and have listened to the feedback you provided in your post, however I already have over 110 towers (not sure of exact number), I simply don't have the time to go through and make sure every button to upgrade a tower is in the exact same spot.

Actually a lot of people care about that. Right now your td looks like a mess. You should make the organisation of the towers your top priority. It's really hard to pick what to build and I also agree that the descriptions are not that helpfull. Since no matter what mode you pick, you get the same builder, and as it looks like a mess, you kinda ruin the game from the start.
That's also a bad attitude you got there, "it's so early version I dont care what it looks like". I personally like to polish my maps as good as I can before releasing them to the public, but that's just me, you can do it that way too but you arent giving a good picture of yourself or your maps.

Actually, you get two builders, and in one mode you don't get a builder at all. Also the only reason I keep ignoring everything you say to change about the map is that you won't actually tell me what to fix. The tooltips and buttons seem fine to me, but if they don't seem fine to you, maybe you could say something like, "The tooltips should say how much damage each tower does." instead you just say "The tooltips suck," maybe they do, I haven't gotten enough feedback about the map to know whether they suck or not, but maybe you could simply tell me what to do.
Sorry if this or the last post seem rude or whatever, but usually the point of posting negative comments about maps should be help improve them, rather then constantly complaining. As I have said, it hasn't been tested by enough people, so I've gotten plenty of negative comments, I have been able to fix most of the problems people have told me about, because they have told me exactly what the problem is. Again, sorry if sound rude, but I just can't read minds.


Also, I've posted v0.4, which includes many gameplay enhancements based on the feedback I have received (mostly while testing on Battle.net). As well as many other improvements. It also has a new class:

Healing (level 1-Magic Box) All of these towers give units health when they attack, of course they work the best when you use to attack allied towers
 
Level 16
Joined
Oct 30, 2004
Messages
1,277
Actually, you get two builders, and in one mode you don't get a builder at all. Also the only reason I keep ignoring everything you say to change about the map is that you won't actually tell me what to fix. The tooltips and buttons seem fine to me, but if they don't seem fine to you, maybe you could say something like, "The tooltips should say how much damage each tower does." instead you just say "The tooltips suck," maybe they do, I haven't gotten enough feedback about the map to know whether they suck or not, but maybe you could simply tell me what to do.
Sorry if this or the last post seem rude or whatever, but usually the point of posting negative comments about maps should be help improve them, rather then constantly complaining. As I have said, it hasn't been tested by enough people, so I've gotten plenty of negative comments, I have been able to fix most of the problems people have told me about, because they have told me exactly what the problem is. Again, sorry if sound rude, but I just can't read minds.

It seems like you got very low stantards for quality, atleast compared to mine. Im not giving you details on what to fix because that would take too much of my time. I'm telling you on what areas you could improve imo. One area being the organisation of the towers. I tested out your map once again, the line survivor mode, and here's something I gathered:

You start out with over 500 gold, the most expensive tower was something like 60 gold, the others were average of 20 gold and there's 11 towers to choose from. You, as the creator, know exacly what to build. Normal first time player is clueless on what to build and on top of all the towers are in no order, they are in a mess, your choise is just to build some random towers not knowing if they are any good. You overwhelm the player right at the beginning of your map. Organise the towers, make requirements for them (example: you need to build tower X to be able to build tower Y).

I played the map with one computer, as you cant start the map alone. First time I made the player4 as computer. First wave the computer naturally leaks, the footmen were just running the volcano up and down, they were not removed. Game over, I had to rehost.
Second try, I made player3 as the computer this time. On the leaderboard there were player2 and player4 displayed. The creeps spawned at the right lane, and the lives were reduced from player4.
After few levels player3 and player4 were defeated. When there was the first boss level, the kodo, it spawned for player4 (empty lane) and it run to the volcano and kept running it up and down. Game over, once again.

Some tower descriptions are not true, one example the archer upgrade. It says it increases range when it infact doesnt increase range at all.

Balance, non-existing. I build as many brutal towers in the beginning as I could, that's about 40 of them. They do about 120dmg very fast. First wave footies, hp 350. Died within the first millimetre, not bad for a first wave. Wave 4, sorcs, hp 1200. They advanced a whole centimetre. Nice. And I still hadnt build a single tower since the first wave. The creeps get like 100-400 hp more per level, still same armor. The peons, level 9, had same hp as the wolves, level 5. No difference in armor or anything. Seriously, did you balance this map at all? I got all the way to the first boss without building a single tower since the ones I build in the beginning (didnt get further due the bug mentioned earlier).

All of this I got from two short games alone. And there you are whining how you cant fix anything because people dont give you feedback, for crying out loud, test your own bloody map and use that head of yours if you got one. There are bugs and imbalances that even a blind person couldnt miss.
 
Level 8
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
329
Some things I found ludicrously wrong:

Air towers. After knockback, they seem to be able to attack towers, or something. In any case, there goes my doom tower/Air tower strategy.

Arcane Tower. Its good to know that my Arcane Tower's Aura of Blight heals nearby undead units. Question: Why the hell would I want to heal what I'm supposed to kill?

Some towers can attack the enemies in the opponents lane too.

"Frost Armor: This unit has increased Armor" Thanks Arcane Tower, you really helped!

Edit on this line, because The guy above me already stated it (>.<) /Knock self on head

Conjuration Towers: Try putting them in a maze. Not fun. Skeles WILL block pathing.
 
Last edited:
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
1.It seems like you got very low stantards for quality, atleast compared to mine. Im not giving you details on what to fix because that would take too much of my time. I'm telling you on what areas you could improve imo. One area being the organisation of the towers. I tested out your map once again, the line survivor mode, and here's something I gathered:

2.You start out with over 500 gold, the most expensive tower was something like 60 gold, the others were average of 20 gold and there's 11 towers to choose from. You, as the creator, know exacly what to build. Normal first time player is clueless on what to build and on top of all the towers are in no order, they are in a mess, your choise is just to build some random towers not knowing if they are any good. You overwhelm the player right at the beginning of your map. Organise the towers, make requirements for them (example: you need to build tower X to be able to build tower Y).

3.I played the map with one computer, as you cant start the map alone. First time I made the player4 as computer. First wave the computer naturally leaks, the footmen were just running the volcano up and down, they were not removed. Game over, I had to rehost.
Second try, I made player3 as the computer this time. On the leaderboard there were player2 and player4 displayed. The creeps spawned at the right lane, and the lives were reduced from player4.
After few levels player3 and player4 were defeated. When there was the first boss level, the kodo, it spawned for player4 (empty lane) and it run to the volcano and kept running it up and down. Game over, once again.

4.Some tower descriptions are not true, one example the archer upgrade. It says it increases range when it infact doesnt increase range at all.

5.Balance, non-existing. I build as many brutal towers in the beginning as I could, that's about 40 of them. They do about 120dmg very fast. First wave footies, hp 350. Died within the first millimetre, not bad for a first wave. Wave 4, sorcs, hp 1200. They advanced a whole centimetre. Nice. And I still hadnt build a single tower since the first wave. The creeps get like 100-400 hp more per level, still same armor. The peons, level 9, had same hp as the wolves, level 5. No difference in armor or anything. Seriously, did you balance this map at all? I got all the way to the first boss without building a single tower since the ones I build in the beginning (didnt get further due the bug mentioned earlier).

6.All of this I got from two short games alone. And there you are whining how you cant fix anything because people dont give you feedback, for crying out loud, test your own bloody map and use that head of yours if you got one. There are bugs and imbalances that even a blind person couldnt miss.

1. I spend much more time improving my maps then it appears you do on yours

2. Alright, thanks for the feedback, I will make these improvements

3. You can start the map alone, but there are triggers to still kill player 2's units though, why were you puting player 3 or 4 on AI anyway? I'm going to fix the leaderboard though

4. It does increase range, just ignore the default stat stuff, the range on the Elven archer, is a lot more then the skeleton one

5. The first few levels aren't supposed to be that hard, some people I've played do struggle with completing them though, every ten levels the difficulty gets a lot higher, and a bunch of arrow towers probably won't kill the first boss

6. I've tested it many times, everyone plays differently, maybe when you played there was bugs X and Y, when I played there was only Z, I fixed Z, now I need to now what as many of the other problems are, so I can fix them, someone whining that there are bugs doesn't help me fix them

Some things I found ludicrously wrong:

1.Air towers. After knockback, they seem to be able to attack towers, or something. In any case, there goes my doom tower/Air tower strategy.

2.Arcane Tower. Its good to know that my Arcane Tower's Aura of Blight heals nearby undead units. Question: Why the hell would I want to heal what I'm supposed to kill?

3.Some towers can attack the enemies in the opponents lane too.

4."Frost Armor: This unit has increased Armor" Thanks Arcane Tower, you really helped!

Edit on this line, because The guy above me already stated it (>.<) /Knock self on head

5.Conjuration Towers: Try putting them in a maze. Not fun. Skeles WILL block pathing.

1. I think I might have forgot to put in on the tooltip so I'll add it, but if your air towers blow units right in front of a tower there is a half second period where they might decide to attack, without this, people will just mass air towers and can never lose

2. I guess I should specify this too, your towers are undead units (that's why they're summoned), the race of the creeps is human, so your not healing them

3. Towers attack all enemies, if they are placed close enough to anything that is an enemies, they will attack it

4. I can't figure out how to change what that buff says, but it actually damages them, also it increases the armor of allies

5. Yay, I thought it would make they're placement more strategic, but I can see how it could get annoying, I'll change it
 
Level 8
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
329
Stealing your number system now:

1. "Black Hole Effect" can be selected. Put locust on it or something

2. "Black Hole Effect" is never removed. It just stays there and tanks out the damage that the enemy is trying to give.

3. Try using the deer tower to move units into the enemy lanes and watch them leak. Fun fun fun! (Any they get really pissed at you)

4. Kael's aura of invuln doesn't work...

5. Black Hole = Really, really rigged. I just put a max lvl brute damage thing with splash next to it and watch them get harassed to death.

GJ on the map, btw~
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
Stealing your number system now:

1. "Black Hole Effect" can be selected. Put locust on it or something

2. "Black Hole Effect" is never removed. It just stays there and tanks out the damage that the enemy is trying to give.

3. Try using the deer tower to move units into the enemy lanes and watch them leak. Fun fun fun! (Any they get really pissed at you)

4. Kael's aura of invuln doesn't work...

5. Black Hole = Really, really rigged. I just put a max lvl brute damage thing with splash next to it and watch them get harassed to death.

GJ on the map, btw~

1+2. Warcraft let me use it as an actual "special effect," it's considered a "unit," so I have to wait til the effect ends to delete it, however it then spawns another one every time it attacks

3. Yay I thought that was pretty fun too, so is this good or bad?

4. Actually that was a replacement for a different ability he had that didn't work either, so I guess I'll replace it again

5. How did you get enough gold to get the black hole and the max level brute? I'm going to make the radius of the black hole smaller
 
Level 6
Joined
Mar 8, 2007
Messages
192
You should realy consider adding ground textures...
I made today a public test and following thing happend.

1 Left before the game started and sayd, this map is bugged there arnt any mobs.

2. The second player left and sayd this sucks this guy kills my mobs.

3. the last player left saying dota is alot better then this, and the creator shall burn in hell.

The first thing you should add are ground textures, so you know how much space is between each tower.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
You should realy consider adding ground textures...
I made today a public test and following thing happend.

1 Left before the game started and sayd, this map is bugged there arnt any mobs.

2. The second player left and sayd this sucks this guy kills my mobs.

3. the last player left saying dota is alot better then this, and the creator shall burn in hell.

4.The first thing you should add are ground textures, so you know how much space is between each tower.

1. I don't know what he was talking about, their was a glitch (fixed in v0.41b) that could keep creeps from spawning if player 4 leaked, however I checked my triggers, unless you play Rumble Pit mode there's no way that level 1 won't spawn.

2. I am currently working on a system for my map that will make it so that towers won't attack over lanes and up to 8 people can play.

3. Well unfortunately there are a lot of "people like that" (substitute whatever word you want in the quotes). Look at threads for maps here, other websites, on Battle.net. They'll whine about anything a little different from their precious dota. Try playing that Warcraft card game thing on Battle.net, it's a great and unique map, but so many people will whine about it and leave within 10 minutes.

4. The basic, arrow tower ground texture looks stupid on some towers, so I've used the ground textures for decoration. You can use your builder to test your maze of towers, if he can get through, so can the creeps. I'll give him a fake ability so that everyone knows that, but you can just have him go through your maze, and if he gets through, you know you haven't blocked pathing. Also, while placing towers the green square underneath shows their pathing map.
 
Level 1
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
7
Howdyho,
after 30 minutes of playing on my own I can tell you:
-You should give a hint that invisible towers can detect invisible enemys. Also it would be nice if you mention some specials like "can only be attacked by chaos" before the wave spawns.
-I don't like it that the airunits fly on the side of my line... the flying boss could only be attacked by half of my towers.
-The healing tower (1) should heal towers without players commands.
-The venom tower (3) ist organic and can't be healed by the second builder

And two really bad things:
1) Venom tower (4)... I tested it three times... it damages your towers too... even itself!
2) A mystical bug: Suddenly some of my towers were destroyed. I can't figure out why. Perhaps it has something to do with those gravity towers I build, but I got really no idea. I know it doesn't help you much, but I just want you to tell there is a problem.

I'll test other modes tomorrow...
,Dungla Wandara
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
Howdyho,
after 30 minutes of playing on my own I can tell you:
1.You should give a hint that invisible towers can detect invisible enemys. Also it would be nice if you mention some specials like "can only be attacked by chaos" before the wave spawns.
2.I don't like it that the airunits fly on the side of my line... the flying boss could only be attacked by half of my towers.
3.The healing tower (1) should heal towers without players commands.
4.The venom tower (3) ist organic and can't be healed by the second builder

And two really bad things:
5) Venom tower (4)... I tested it three times... it damages your towers too... even itself!
6) A mystical bug: Suddenly some of my towers were destroyed. I can't figure out why. Perhaps it has something to do with those gravity towers I build, but I got really no idea. I know it doesn't help you much, but I just want you to tell there is a problem.

I'll test other modes tomorrow...
,Dungla Wandara

First, thanks for all the testing, you will be added to map credits as a tester.
1. Alright, hints will be added
2. Towers are to high for air units to fly over, so they usually go on the side, I can't figure out a way to avoid this, however in some modes they will go through your maze. Also, by the chicken will land sometimes and then becomes a land unit.
3. After multiple hours of trying to get them to heal towers automatically
I decided it's probably impossible, because then they attack enemies automatically instead
4. Thanks, I'll fix that
5. I'll go through all the toxic towers effects again,they need to be rebalanced anyway, I thought I might have noticed a similar problem during my own test yestarday
6. If you had a lot of gravity disruptors then that's probably why, attacks from the level 1 chaos appear at a completely random spot, so I guess you got unlucky. I'll check my triggers to make sure there isn't any other possible way this could have happened.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
79
Spray towers do not have a base making it really hard to maze / place them

the versions need a lot more explination then they are given on the buttons
we wont know what most of them are honestly

the minimap image is annoying but i guess that is your preference

using only a few types of towers and no blocking my towers were being destroyed every wave

that is the 3 basics, the skeleton marksman, and the upgraded marksman to a centaur
the entoxicate upgrade for poison
and the other upgrade to basic tower i dont remember atm



it seems as though you have put alot of work into this so here are my suggestions

simplify up some of the terrain. it is really distracting even to the point of hard to work with
the mini map image is also hard to work around even more so with so much map available. if you want to keep the image possibly use a black out on the rest of the map and lock camera options per mode so that we only see the section we are using
find out what is killing towers and give some indication that our towers are dying ( i recieved no attack warning ) just suddenly didn't have half my maze


this map looks like with some fine tuning it could be played for hours but atm it is to hard to even try and test it much

keep up the hard work
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
1.Spray towers do not have a base making it really hard to maze / place them

2.the versions need a lot more explination then they are given on the buttons
we wont know what most of them are honestly

3.the minimap image is annoying but i guess that is your preference

4.using only a few types of towers and no blocking my towers were being destroyed every wave

5.that is the 3 basics, the skeleton marksman, and the upgraded marksman to a centaur
the entoxicate upgrade for poison
and the other upgrade to basic tower i dont remember atm



it seems as though you have put alot of work into this so here are my suggestions

6.simplify up some of the terrain. it is really distracting even to the point of hard to work with
7.the mini map image is also hard to work around even more so with so much map available. if you want to keep the image possibly use a black out on the rest of the map and lock camera options per mode so that we only see the section we are using
8.find out what is killing towers and give some indication that our towers are dying ( i recieved no attack warning ) just suddenly didn't have half my maze


this map looks like with some fine tuning it could be played for hours but atm it is to hard to even try and test it much

keep up the hard work

1. alright, fixed, will be in next version
2+5. sorry, I can't tell what your trying to say on either of these
3+7. okay, I have now made it calculate camera bounds for each mode, I have kept the minimap image because the default calculated minimap image didn't work for this
4+8. I don't know why towers seem to sometimes disappear, I'll check the triggers and hopefully fix it
6. Alright I'll work on the terrain, but what mode did you play so I know which one to change

Thank you for testing and providing some useful feedback, you will also be added to the credits as a tester
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
v0.43 has been released, fixs many things posted above by people who tested the last one. Adds a few new features including a completly new level with a mode to play there. This new mode is called Survivor, there's a description below.

Survivor Mode-Basically a standard survivor TD mode. Each player has there own separate little maze. Creeps will spawn for each player and then have to go through this maze. You build around the maze to kill the creeps before they reach the end. Be careful with air levels who can fly over pretty much everything except your towers, first air level is level 15.

Commands showing when each special level is (undead, invis, flying, spell imune, etc.) will be added in the next version, a voting system is also planed for the next version. Version 0.5 will have at least 10 modes
 
Level 4
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
79
what i mean by #2 is that when we start the game we get a dialog box with the names of all the different types of games. I don't know what most of those names mean and I don't think many other people do. So i would suggest either adding some type of description to the game choice buttons OR change how we choose the mode to something more like a small arena with a chooser unit and description text triggered by going close to the appropriate mode

#5 was simply adding more information to 4 so that you could possibly track down the problem

i was playing fill the gave i think but the same idea goes for all of the terrain. i just happened to be on the worst of them
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
what i mean by #2 is that when we start the game we get a dialog box with the names of all the different types of games. I don't know what most of those names mean and I don't think many other people do. So i would suggest either adding some type of description to the game choice buttons OR change how we choose the mode to something more like a small arena with a chooser unit and description text triggered by going close to the appropriate mode

#5 was simply adding more information to 4 so that you could possibly track down the problem

i was playing fill the gave i think but the same idea goes for all of the terrain. i just happened to be on the worst of them

I think I have fixed the disappearing towers thing. The next version is going to add descriptions for all the modes as well as a voting system for selecting them.
 
Level 12
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
46
Well I tried to host this as it sounded cool, what I got to try though was totaly unplayable.

First, the mobs walked 20 yards then stopped. waited 5 secs then walked another 20 yards. some didnt walk at all.
Second, my towers killed my neighbours towers, I cleared up his whole left wing. not that he had any problems killing the mobs anyway since they walked so slow but.
I got to level 2 then I quit.
 
Level 6
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
25
I don't think that the healing towers should do damage i was playing i order them to heal and and they do mare damage then then heal so all my towers died.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
Well I tried to host this as it sounded cool, what I got to try though was totaly unplayable.

First, the mobs walked 20 yards then stopped. waited 5 secs then walked another 20 yards. some didnt walk at all.
Second, my towers killed my neighbours towers, I cleared up his whole left wing. not that he had any problems killing the mobs anyway since they walked so slow but.
I got to level 2 then I quit.

If you play the Line TD mode, you are fighting the creeps and your neighbors, in this mode you'll need to eventually beat them and take over their lane so you can get more gold from killing their creeps. It doesn't seem like many people are very used to this idea and don't like it. So their is Line Survivor mode that you can play. To help people figure this out, I'll add mode descriptions to the next version and a voting system. Also about their speed, they were the first two levels, and by being really slow people have time to get some towers built.

I don't think that the healing towers should do damage i was playing i order them to heal and and they do more damage then then heal so all my towers died.


Only the first two healing towers do any damage, levels 3-5 only heal. It sounds like you probably had level one, which is supposed to heal more then the damage it does. I'll increase it's healing power so that it works. Since it's only level one, your only supposed to be able to use it on lightly wounded towers or units, and it's supposed to heal slowly. If you get level 5 you can heal pretty much any of your units to full health instantly.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
I have released v0.47, which is pretty big update. I was rushed in making and testing it though, so there is probably many bugs. The update includes many fixes, a new level, a mode to play there, a voting system to select the mode, more information in the Info screen, commands to tell you when each of the different types of special levels are, and more. A may be a while before the next update, however it will be very big one, including, among other things, 8 player support, two new modes, absolutely no killing creeps across lanes (although you can't in Line Survivor TD already, and some modes don't involve lanes) and new towers.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
v0.5 is now available, you can download it from the link in the first post or under maps. Please test it, and see if you can figure out why the height doesn't work for air towers in game. Also try the Assault mode, because it's new, and multiplayer only, so there's likely a lot of bugs I haven't found. Execution is also new and multipleyer only, however it uses previously established systems, so there's probably no bugs. Also note that there is now 8 player, and no attacking other players creeps, thanks to yyz1992 for copying some trigger functions that then allowed me to do this.
 
Level 3
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
58
If you play the Line TD mode, you are fighting the creeps and your neighbors, in this mode you'll need to eventually beat them and take over their lane so you can get more gold from killing their creeps. It doesn't seem like many people are very used to this idea and don't like it. So their is Line Survivor mode that you can play. To help people figure this out, I'll add mode descriptions to the next version and a voting system. Also about their speed, they were the first two levels, and by being really slow people have time to get some towers built.

The description for line TD in your map's info says its solo td...

the map is too confusing, the terrain makes me dizzy, my builder disappeared!!! before level 1 creeps came out while he was building a tower, at level 2 some of my towers disappeared, then i left. Other people that were playing it didnt like it either because it was too confusing, towers disappearing...

and thanks God i found the -endvote command or ppl would have left even before it started.

imo this map is still not ready for beta.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
1.The description for line TD in your map's info says its solo td...

2.the map is too confusing, the terrain makes me dizzy, my builder disappeared!!! before level 1 creeps came out while he was building a tower, at level 2 some of my towers disappeared, then i left. Other people that were playing it didnt like it either because it was too confusing, towers disappearing...

3.and thanks God i found the -endvote command or ppl would have left even before it started.

4.imo this map is still not ready for beta.

1. It is, there is no teams

2. I don't know what could explain stuff disappearing, it hasn't when I've played, maybe something I changed in the latest version, could you tell me what mode you where playing so I could try to see why they disappeared

3. I put 1 minute and 30 seconds to make sure everyone had enough time to read what each mode was, and then vote on the one they wanted to play, I guess I'll make it a little shorter

4. What does imo mean?

Edit: After I just looked through my triggers I think I found what caused stuff to disappear, a new version will be released soon
 
Level 4
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
79
grave i will simplify for you what everyone else has said

your map is not ready to be played

you are trying to cram to much in and as such you aren't dealing with the problems you already have

stop adding stuff and start doing rigorous testing of what you have
clean it up
make sure the whole thing works
right now you have a slew of bugs and down sides that will make people simply not play this map
fix them and make sure what you have is working and playable before you add another mode more player support ect. ect. ect.

you need to focus man
adding more isn't going to get the map playable
fixing the problems is


this is just my friendly advice nothing mean spirited
you have a lot already in the map to work with, you have obviously worked hard. Don't let it go to waste by not refining it.
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
grave i will simplify for you what everyone else has said

your map is not ready to be played

you are trying to cram to much in and as such you aren't dealing with the problems you already have

stop adding stuff and start doing rigorous testing of what you have
clean it up
make sure the whole thing works
right now you have a slew of bugs and down sides that will make people simply not play this map
fix them and make sure what you have is working and playable before you add another mode more player support ect. ect. ect.

you need to focus man
adding more isn't going to get the map playable
fixing the problems is


this is just my friendly advice nothing mean spirited
you have a lot already in the map to work with, you have obviously worked hard. Don't let it go to waste by not refining it.

I won't have time to test it very much at all until August 23rd, until then, I still will have a little time each day that I can work on it. Since I haven't found anything to fix lately, I have been simply adding new features. I will try to fix everything anyone finds, but it can't be tested in multiplayer with one player. I can't fix the terrain for example, if I don't know what to fix. For example, if someone says "Your terrain sucks," I know they don't like the terrain, however I don't know what they don't like about it. A few people have commented that they don't like the terrain, but I can't fix it because it looks fine to me, and I don't know what they don't like. Any help I recieve from testing will be credited and I will fix whatever I find that I should fix from their help, if no one else can test it either, I will test it myself between August 23rd and September 4th.
 
Level 3
Joined
May 2, 2007
Messages
58
the mode was line td when towers disappeared, happened to another guy also, and my builder disappeared when i issued him to build a tower
imo = in my opinion
 
Level 4
Joined
Jun 22, 2007
Messages
86
the mode was line td when towers disappeared, happened to another guy also, and my builder disappeared when i issued him to build a tower
imo = in my opinion

I think I found that bug, it's fixed in the new v0.51

v0.52 has been released. After testing each mode myself, I think I have removed pretty much all bugs and glitchs, there weren't any when I played. Try v0.52 and tell me if there are any problems when you play, if there are, try to describe what happened before the bug. v0.51 had a bug that could sometimes spawn builders in the wrong place, this ruined the game when it happened, it appears to have now been fixed.

I've updated the map to v0.54, it fixes many things. Adds a new tower type. And improves the Hero TD mode a lot.

bump

New v0.55 is available. Many small changes, also adds 8 player support to Survivor TD, and fixes the bugs that mode had.

bump
 
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