[Defense / Survival] Getting opinions - Which one is the best Item Drop System

[Barbafire]

Hello all hivers! I'd like to ask for you, opinions about Item Drop System. Specifically, for a Zombie Survival Map. Let me explain more below:

While my another project Outerworld Arena is reaching it's completion (although there is still a lot of work ahead), I'm already working on my next project, making decisions for it. The project now, is a Zombie Survival Map, with the same idea as Resident Evil Survivor. Basic Core Loop is the same as the mentioned map:

• Explore;
• Loot;
• Create a Base (Barricade yourself or choose a place to leave looted items);
• Survive;

At the end of this post I'll leave a video of the current prototype of the project, created using an "Arcade Mode" template (Probably a gamemode available?) besides the original "Survival Mode". With this in mind, I have some proposals about how items should be found/dropped in this map.

==========

1st Idea - Global Drop

Speaking about NOTD Aftermath, Undead Assault or even Resident Evil Snow, all items are dropped on the ground. When the respawn timer ends, they are dropped all over the ground, and that's it.

Pros:

• You just need to walk around to find loot;
• Loot can spawn right at your feet;
• Easy to see what item is dropped near you, since items have colors and models to easily identify them in this project;

Cons:

- Items can overwhelm the ground, poluting the terrain and even messing with the attack-move order, making you attack or shot accidentally;

==========

2nd Idea - Global Loot Boxes

It is the same idea as the 1st one. The difference in it, is that loot is presented in "Loot Boxes", chests, and so on. Theses boxes use a Custom Loot Table, and when you get near enough, they automatically drop all items, using the custom table. So, for example, if you reach a box and it randomly chooses the "Gunshop List", it'll drop only weapons and ammo.

Pros:

• From average to a great amount of items in the same spot;
• You'll search less for the items you want, since they'll not be dropped everywhere, like the previous idea;

Cons:

• Less availability, forcing you to explore the map, and consequently putting you in danger;
• When dropped, items will be glued in each other, and sometimes, forces the player to pick and drop items to reach the desired one.

==========

3rd Idea - Random Generated Loot Places

This project will not have things that simulate the interior of a building, so, everything happens outside. By using some (a lot) of regions, we can define where there'll be loot, and where not. Also, we can define which regions from the total regions will have lot, using a random system. Same as the 2nd idea, a loot box will be generated, and when near, the loot will be shown.

Pros:

• Easy to find loot places, after some gameplays;
• We can define specific places for loot, instead of random generation;

Cons:

• Without random factor, experienced players will know where there is loot, making gameplay repetitive;
• Players can build up base on one or more loot regions, so they can take advantage on loot respawn;

==========

So, now I ask you: In your opinion, which is the best Drop System? If you have another one in mind and want to share, I'll be grateful.

Thanks in advance.

 

[ThompZon]

One suggestion to handle the "con" of the 1st method is to have a "itemChecking" region (define the size however big feels good), and when you are about to place an item, move that region to that spot and count items in region. If it is less or equal to some value (could be 0, could be 4), only then spawn item there, otherwise retry another spot. Keep in mind to that you need to stop after a certain amount of tries (if the ground is full of items, or you'll risk an infinite loop causing a crash). You could also check if there are no player units within certain distance etc. depending on how you want it to go.

It's also possible to do a mix. Certain "high risk" areas could use method 2 or 3.

 

[Barbafire]

It's also possible to do a mix. Certain "high risk" areas could use method 2 or 3.

The first idea is to have three different “places”:

• Forest area (Spawn area for enemies and “special” drops)
• Farm area (Wide open area, less loot, less dangerouness)
• City area (More loot, troublesome layout, enemies can trap players)

Special drops are “rare” items that can only be found on “air drops” and “bunker” item type table.

---

Hmmmmmm… a checking trigger to determine how many items are on the ground. Didn’t think about this one.

To properly think about this, I must define a balance for items, since I’m using a durability system for them. Less items with high durability, or more items with less durability (in any way, they can be stacked, but there is a limit for it).

 

[ThompZon]

It's not very hard to do either:

• CheckItems
  • Events
    • Time - Every 1.00 seconds of game time
  • Conditions
  • Actions
    • Set t_loc1 = (Position of Peasant 0002 <gen>)
    • Set itemCount = 0
    • Region - Center Region 000 <gen> on t_loc1
    • Item - Pick every item in Region 000 <gen> and do (Actions)
      • Loop - Actions
        • Set itemCount = (itemCount + 1)
    • If (All Conditions are True) then do (Then Actions) else do (Else Actions)
      • If - Conditions
        • itemCount Equal to 0
      • Then - Actions
        • Item - Create Tome of Experience at t_loc1
      • Else - Actions
    • Custom script: call RemoveLocation(udg_t_loc1)

This will spawn a book if there are no items near the Peasant.

I think it's good to encourage exploration so one cannot camp in their secure base. Imo you need to throw challenges at the player without it feeling BS. Too low durability will feel pretty BS, but too high and the requirement to explore is lower, I guess.

It's fun to find items, so I guess it's a good idea with different "rarities" of spawned items too (that might change over time, so "higher tier" don't spawn at start, but will spawn after a while, when you're all more likely to have "common" items you need).

 

[Barbafire]

The trigger itself is not hard.

I think it's good to encourage exploration so one cannot camp in their secure base. Imo you need to throw challenges at the player without it feeling BS. Too low durability will feel pretty BS, but too high and the requirement to explore is lower, I guess.

I agree. I'm trying to find out a good balance for it: High durability and low ammo, or 50/50... Anyway, this is a math issue xd. Since SMGs and Automatic Rifles have 0 cooldown, they can break really fast while shooting a big target. This is a balance issue, for later.

It's fun to find items, so I guess it's a good idea with different "rarities" of spawned items too (that might change over time, so "higher tier" don't spawn at start, but will spawn after a while, when you're all more likely to have "common" items you need).

First idea is to divide the game in 3 parts of 15 minutes each:

• First 15 minutes - Rank 1 items
• 15 to 30 minutes - Rank 2 items
• 30 to end game - Rank 3 items

The difference between the ranks in weapons, besides their skin, is their stats. More base durability, damage, attack speed if not an automatic weapon, that sort of thing (A sheet is a god tool in these moments xD). For example, for SMGs, first idea is to have an UMP for rank 1, a MP5 for rank 2, and a P90 for Rank 3. All three use the same ammo, but speaking in stats, they are slightly better. The drops will just update to the next rank, instead of removing old items and etc. Special drops, instead of improving, gives more options, since they are created using a fictional Rank 4 rule for weapons.

• 8 types of Guns (24 if count ranks)
• 5 types of Melee Weapons (15 if count ranks)
• 12 Special Weapons

It can look painful to track all these things, but it isn't if they are planned =). In my opinion, this is more than enough to instigate players with the standard question "What's next?".

 

[ThompZon]

Sounds like a good general design

I think higher durability and lower ammo makes more sense than the other way around, so 35/65 ? My thinking is: You feel that you get to keep your weapon, but need to keep getting more ammo against "infinite horde of zombies". Your weapon break down slowly, but ammo and is the real issue. And if you get a better weapon, it doesn't instantly break down (typical feels bad moment).

Another way of differentiating weapons can be that some spawn a bullet that hits first target in its path instead of "good old war3 basic attack", optionally with spread, damage modifiers or multiple bullets (for shotgun).
Depending on how many "priority targets" there are, such weapons have the weakness that it can't target specific priority target that is behind a mass of regular enemies (because they hit first target in bullet's path).

Edit: I might have swayed away from original topic, because this all sounds pretty fun

 

[Barbafire]

Depending on how many "priority targets" there are, such weapons have the weakness that it can't target specific priority target that is behind a mass of regular enemies (because they hit first target in bullet's path).

In the other post I've made, Fleck spoke about this mechanic. Using a damage detection system, and shockwave as dummy. I didn't stop and check this out, I really don't know if it is easy to do or not, if it matches the project idea... that sort of thing. But it is something that is listed to check.

Besides that, currently, all weapons have an attack modifier:

• Knives, Spears, Bows, pistols, revolvers and SMGs have critical strike;
• Axes and Shotguns have splash (not a minor splash, a decent one, a bit fictional xd);
• Hammers and Bats have bash;
• Semi-Automatic Rifles, Automatic Rifles and Sniper Rifles have Piercing (Sniper pierce for example can reach about 400 range if I'm right);
• Some specials have Corruption (armor reduction), Bouncing Attack, and some improvised explosives;

The general idea is to not make a realistic survival, is to dive in fantasy a bit (that's why we have some peculiar melee weapons). Also, I'm trying to make a scenario where there aren't a lot of military resources, like explosives, high end weapons, air strikes, that sort of thing. An average sized city, with its farms, weapons because every city needs it... Things a bit more calm than a real war.

Edit: I might have swayed away from original topic, because this all sounds pretty fun

There is no problem haha, any idea is welcomed. We never know everything, and is good to check shared content.

 

[ThompZon]

Using a damage detection system, and shockwave as dummy

Personally I use damage detection system (Damage Engine 5.A.0.0 But it's also possible to use natives directly), yes, then I use Relativistic Missiles [vJASS][LUA][GUI] for projectiles.
ALICE 2.8.5 (Missiles, Physics & More) works if you use lua, but I've never used it because my "main map" is old and it's what I mostly "focus on" when it comes to WC3.

The general idea is to not make a realistic survival, is to dive in fantasy a bit (that's why we have some peculiar melee weapons). Also, I'm trying to make a scenario where there aren't a lot of military resources, like explosives, high end weapons, air strikes, that sort of thing. An average sized city, with its farms, weapons because every city needs it... Things a bit more calm than a real war.

Sound good. Imo it's good to prioritize fun/cool rather than theme/realism in most cases, but it all ties together of course.

If you want to checkout weapons I've made it's on:

Spoiler: My map

I have a few weapons in my "main map" (https://www.hiveworkshop.com/threads/the-defence-of-the-castle.324524/ -> Master Chief -> [Q] Weapon Roulette-ability. If you rename your local user to "WorldEditDev", there are a few pre-placed units to the right side of the map that you can test around with).