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Gaias 1.2 ... and yes, I'm not joking.

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Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

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Important change to come for 1.1m:
As some abilities (especially passives) have become redundant due to the new talent system, I wanted to give an improvement to base class balancing in this regard.

This is what will be changed in 1.1m:
- Eagles Eye ability will be removed
- Energy Drain ability will be removed
- Deadly Precision ability will be removed
- Demoralizing Shout is now a Berserker only ability, 'Blades of Death' will be removed for the Berserker, as it is too similar to talent effects
- Divine Protection is now a Bishop only ability. 'Divine Feedback' will be removed for the Bishop, as it is too similar to talent effects


This basicly means that the total number of available base class abilities is reduced to 7.
With these changes, I also hope for a much more engaging experience in lower level content, especially since Divine Protection won't be available until D3 content anymore.
 

_lycan

_lycan

_lycan

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wait what? aren't the talents supposed to also make passives like eagle's eye more powerful?
also divine protection being only for bishops, i really hope you find a way to make a tanky ability better than divine protection for monks, because even with it monks aren't as good as crusaders in tanking.
 
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Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

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Darklycan51 said:
wait what? aren't the talents supposed to also make passives like eagle's eye more powerful?
also divine protection being only for bishops, i really hope you find a way to make a tanky ability better than divine protection for monks, because even with it monks aren't as good as crusaders in tanking.
Click to expand...
Remember that a lot of stuff was changed since 1.1L(3), including balancing of a lot of monk specific skills. I think Monk performance will be satisfying with all the new talents and skill changes even without Divine Protection.

Also, I felt that this was a huge step forward in terms of balancing, as Divine Protection was rendering low level content trivial.

Most of the passives like those that have been removed provide bonuses which could easily be substituted by talents later on. I simply felt that having abilities which have roughly the same (if not less) power as a single talent is frustrating and doesn't suite the style of Gaias Retaliation with its focus on active abilities and passive talents. There will still be passive abilities which actually provide proccs or buffs - stuff that will not be present in talent implementation.
For example, Auras will still be abilities.
 

Ihazdialup

Ihazdialup

Ihazdialup

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Well demo shout was nice for grouping enemies at the beginning of the fight, it never really helped wih the actual aggro, just helped getting all the enemies on the crusader, so crucify can be used to its fullest potential.
 

Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

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Finally created the remaining talents (though they still need to be coded).

Necromancer:

Black Magic (A0AZ):
1: Increases spell power by 5%.
2: Skeletons and Skeleton Mages can be summoned without a corpse nearby.
3: 'Fire Shield' also increases all resistances of the target by 10%
4: Skeletons and Skeleton Mage minions have a 15% improved chance to score a critical hit.
5: Allows Skeletons to use the 'Bash' ability.

Elemental Magic (A0B0):
1: Maximum Mana increased by 10%
2: Increases the duration of 'Frost Cage' by 10 seconds
3: Reduces casting time of 'Fireball' by 0.5 seconds
4: Increases chance to score a critical hit with fire and shadow spells by 15%
5: Enchants the weapons of all skeleton minions with fire, adding 15% of damage dealt as fire damage to their attacks

Blood Magic (A0B1):
1: Maximum life increased by 15%
2: Increases spell haste by 10%
3: Increases armor reduction of 'Detonating Bones' by 20%
4: Whenever a skeleton minion dies, there is a 50% chance the skeleton will be reanimated with full Mana and 35% of maximum life.
5: 'Curse of the Vampire' also recovers Mana to all allies around (3% of damage dealt)


Hunter:

Archery (A0B2):
1: Increases attack speed by 5%.
2: Increases duration of 'Flaming Arrow' by 6 seconds.
3: Attacks ignore enemy evasion.
4: Increases chance to score a critical hit by 15%.
5: 5% chance to reset all cooldowns when dealing damage with standard attacks [effect can only occur once every 30 seconds].

Pathfinding (A0B3):
1: Increases all resistances by 5%.
2: Increases duration of 'Ensnare' by 6 seconds.
3: Each point of Agility also adds 0.5 to armor penetration.
4: Cooldown of 'Multishot' and 'Magic Arrow' reduced by 25%.
5: Critical strikes will poison the target, reducing spell haste, movement and attack speed by 10% for 6 seconds.

Animal Bonds (A0B4):
1: Increases attack speed of the Servant of Nature by 10%.
2: All threat generated by damage is reduced by 20%.
3: Servant of Nature becomes immune to critical hits.
4: Cooldown of 'Claw Strike' and 'Beast Fury' reduced by 25%
5: 'Claw Strike' deals damage in a small area of effect.


Druid:

Preservation (A0B5):
1: Maximum Mana increased by 10%.
2: Increases spell haste by 10%.
3: Increases range of 'Remedy' by 50%.
4: Cooldown of 'Nature's Blessing' reduced by 25%.
5: When using healing spells on other targets, the caster is also healed by 50% of the healed amount.

Avenger (A0B6):
1: Increases chance to score a critical hit by 5%.
2: Increases armor penetration by 25%.
3: Each point of intelligence also adds 0.2 poison damage to the standard attack.
4: Cooldown of 'Barbed Arrow' and 'Flaming Arrow' reduced by 25%.
5: Allows to summon both Efreet and Servant of Nature at the same time.

Growth (A0B7):
1: Maximum Mana of spirits increased by 15%
2: Increases spell power by 10%.
3: Increases duration of 'Feline Reflexes' by 5 seconds.
4: Increases spell haste of spirits by 30%.
5: Allows to summon both Efreet and Dryad at the same time.


Assassin:

Dueling (A0B8):
1: Increases stun duration of 'Backstab' by 1 second.
2: Increases chance to score a critical hit by 10%.
3: Critical damage factor increased by 50%.
4: Movement speed increased by 15%.
5: 3% chance to reset all cooldowns when dealing damage with standard attacks [effect can only occur once every 30 seconds].

Ambush (A0B9):
1: Increases attack power by 5%.
2: Removes movement speed penalty when stealthed.
3: Increases duration of 'Sweeping Blades' by 10 seconds.
4: Cooldown of 'Backstab' and 'Bladefury' reduced by 25%.
5: Attacks from behind the target will ignore armor.

Perfidious Tricks (A0BA):
1: Increases attack speed by 5%.
2: 'Backstab' also interrupts the target.
3: 'Embrittling Acid' also reduces all resistances of the target by 10%.
4: Increases damage dealt when attacking targets from behind by 10%.
5: When receiving an otherwise deadly blow, the assassin will avoid all incoming damage for 2 seconds [effect can only occur once every 30 seconds].


Bard:

Lorekeeper (A0BB):
1: Attack speed increased by 5%.
2: 'Song of Peace' reduces threat generated by additional 5%.
3: Increases armor reduction of 'Embrittling Acid' by 15%.
4: 'Song of Vigor' strength bonus increased by 30%.
5: When a unit is being killed, there is a 35% chance to get a second roll on the droptable.

Minstrel (A0BC):
1: Maximum Mana increased by 10%.
2: 'Inspire' Cooldown reduced by 25%.
3: 'Song of Peace' also increases spell haste of the target by 5%.
4: 'Song of Elements' also increases resistances against fire, water and lightning damage by 10%.
5: Allows for one additional song to be active on the same target.

Bladedancer (A0BD):
1: Movement speed increased by 5%.
2: Critical damage factor increased by 30%.
3: Cooldown of 'Backstab' and 'Sweeping Blades' reduced by 25%.
4: 25% chance on attack to deal 20% of attack power as lightning damage.
5: When the bard is not the current main target of an attacked enemy, there is a 5% chance to enter stealth mode [effect can only occur once every 30 seconds].
Click to expand...
note that all this is highly WIP and might be subject of change when I start coding them.
 

Vestra

Vestra

Vestra

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Zwiebelchen said:
I don't think Crusaders will get any problems without demo shout.
Click to expand...

This is extremely wrong Zwieb, demoralizing shout is a core skill, probably the most valuable skill a squire can possess when becoming a Crusader. It manages waves, without it, that shit will go everywhere. People will be forced to either have berzerker tanks or crusaders with crucify, otherwise shits going to go sideways. Tanks that don't use demo get people killed man. It's a core skill in any group initiation process throughout the game, tanks need an aoe taunt to focus agro before the dps classes get fucked.

Just my input on the matter but I strongly suggest leaving demoralizing shout where it is. It has a massive effect on gameplay. I'm fine seeing how things work without it I'm just against the overall decision.

Edit: Looking over the talents, they seem awesome, a bit too awesome but it will be fun to trial them out properly come 1.2. I suggest removing a chance to get another item from the drop table, if that's what that talent means. Something that good discourages the use of other builds completely. Having single drops is reall fine, we should all just deal with that and not have crazy shit affect drops.


Other than that, shit looks crazy, hope you had a good Christmas Zwieb, looking forward as always etc etc
 
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Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

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Vestra said:
This is extremely wrong Zwieb, demoralizing shout is a core skill, probably the most valuable skill a squire can possess when becoming a Crusader. It manages waves, without it, that shit will go everywhere. People will be forced to either have berzerker tanks or crusaders with crucify, otherwise shits going to go sideways. Tanks that don't use demo get people killed man. It's a core skill in any group initiation process throughout the game, tanks need an aoe taunt to focus agro before the dps classes get fucked.

Just my input on the matter but I strongly suggest leaving demoralizing shout where it is. It has a massive effect on gameplay. I'm fine seeing how things work without it I'm just against the overall decision.
Click to expand...
I think this is a subject of testing. Remember that the amount of threat Demoralizing Shout produced was extremely low (less than a single auto attack) and when the Crusader is the one pulling, the mobs will all go for him anyway at first.
I think it spices up the tanking of Crusaders a little bit, as I felt it was too easy anyway, especially in D3, where crucify was basicly fire-and-forget-aggro.

Edit: Looking over the talents, they seem awesome, a bit too awesome but it will be fun to trial them out properly come 1.2. I suggest removing a chance to get another item from the drop table, if that's what that talent means. Something that good discourages the use of other builds completely. Having single drops is reall fine, we should all just deal with that and not have crazy shit affect drops.


Other than that, shit looks crazy, hope you had a good Christmas Zwieb, looking forward as always etc etc
Click to expand...
It's not really a must have talent. Remember that it only works in 1 out of 3 bosskills. It really depends on how you want your experience. The other two builds clearly have more bang for your buck in terms of combat use - so basicly you can decide between easier bossfights and more valuable bossfights.
Let's see what happens. If Lorekeepers get far more popular than the other two builds, I might replace the talent at some point.

I mean you could say that of Steal aswell. Although steal significantly increases the amount of drops, not everyone plays a thief (in fact, I would say its the least played class atm).
 

Vestra

Vestra

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Zwiebelchen said:
I think this is a subject of testing. Remember that the amount of threat Demoralizing Shout produced was extremely low (less than a single auto attack) and when the Crusader is the one pulling, the mobs will all go for him anyway at first.
I think it spices up the tanking of Crusaders a little bit, as I felt it was too easy anyway, especially in D3, where crucify was basicly fire-and-forget-aggro.
Click to expand...

Although it was low it was enough to group an aoe, all waves I have ever done have been demo - group - crucify/heavens. The routine works fantastically and nobody gets killed, especially Gaspode who usually gets smacked in the face by a missed demo. If it's not him it's any player who does anything at all.

By all means I'm fine testing it but I think it's going to leave crusaders as fairly shitty tanks compared to zerkers from now on, they might end up single target.


Zwiebelchen said:
It's not really a must have talent. Remember that it only works in 1 out of 3 bosskills. It really depends on how you want your experience. The other two builds clearly have more bang for your buck in terms of combat use - so basicly you can decide between easier bossfights and more valuable bossfights.
Let's see what happens. If Lorekeepers get far more popular than the other two builds, I might replace the talent at some point.

I mean you could say that of Steal aswell. Although steal significantly increases the amount of drops, not everyone plays a thief (in fact, I would say its the least played class atm).
Click to expand...

The thing is, most runs have never really required a 'full' team. I really think something so beneficial, as 35% is a massive bonus, might even bump assassins off most teams in favour of that one passive skill at 50.

I just see it as too beneficial, maybe if it was 10% or something, or 15%, something low enough to proc now and then but even so peoples greed would get the better of them.

As for steal, it's always had a certain pool behind it which has never been too great, most often a few set basic drops and on The Blazing Flame, the Poltrooney I've only managed to steal twice in countless runs.

Steal was more of a game, I really think a bonus that high could be game changing.
 

lNVlNClBLE

lNVlNClBLE

lNVlNClBLE

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I think it could be interesting to see how things play out without demo. Worth a test, I suppose.

I agree with Vestra on the second roll, though. I'll be using that for sure. Zwieb, can you respec talent points later on? Like, I use that to get all of my gear for myself and my group, then change into a different tree later on?
 

galactcus

galactcus

galactcus

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yeah i was the only hunter with druid gear... and cures hahaha :D

hey zwiel and what about the rare recipe items?? you will improve them?
like cold death... its a rare drop with rare items but that isnot good enough ;/
or this recipe in the capital city or the mercenary sword tooo
 

ChaosClouds

ChaosClouds

ChaosClouds

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-The talents are quite impressive so far. However, I think some level of the talents should'nt only improve one spell because it will make classes who are taking same talent choose same/similar skills as well.
I will use sorcerer conjuration talent as example.
Conjuration (A0AW):
1: 'Fireball' area of effect increased by 20%
2: Cooldown of 'Frost Cage' reduced by 30%
3: Chance to score a critical hit with fire and water spells increased by 10%
4: 'Water Ball' reduces the spell haste of 'soaked' targets by 10%
5: 'Meteor Strike' summons multiple boulders, spreading the area of effect over a wide area

If sorcerers take conjuration path, they will be bound with fireball, frost cage, waterball spell in order to take the advantage of their talent. I would suggest you can add buff for another skill within each level of the talent line.
take it for example (i'm not suggesting the buff effect, just giving an example):
1: 'Fireball' area of effect increased by 20%,
reduce "water globe" casting time by 0.25 sec

2: Cooldown of 'Frost Cage' reduced by 30%,
incenerate duration improved by 1 sec

3: Chance to score a critical hit with fire and water spells increased by 10%

4: 'Water Ball' reduces the spell haste of 'soaked' targets by 10%
If enemy is frozen they take 35% more damage from lightning spell.

5: 'Meteor Strike' summons multiple boulders, spreading the area of effect over a wide area,
water elemental will cast 4 water balls instead of 3

By adding this idea, you can add more buff to each talent's level for the future version which probably have more extra skill compared to now or even the 1.2.
(considering if you want to create more powerfull fire spell than fire ball and you want to buff it even more with the talent, you can just add
1: 'Fireball' area of effect increased by 20%,
reduce "Water globe" casting time by 0.25 sec
the enemy which is targeted by 'firexxx' will be burned dealing SP*X over x second )

-For the demoralizing shout, I consider it as core skill for crusader. It helps a lot gathering the mobs (especially in D3 wave) before casting crucify

I know the talent list is still highly WIP.
Can't wait for the new version!
Good luck!
 

Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

Zwiebelchen

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ChaosClouds said:
-The talents are quite impressive so far. However, I think some level of the talents should'nt only improve one spell because it will make classes who are taking same talent choose same/similar skills as well.
Click to expand...
I understand your concern, but this is basicly what the talents are there for, encourage players to play different builds.
If for example you don't like fireball, you can easily use one of the other two trees and get more out of it. Remember that you are not limited to go straight to 5 in one talent. You can also put a 3/3/0 or a 2/4/0.
For the sorcerer, I think all of the talents have a different flavor on them.
Depending on your way of playing, you might have one or two useless talents - but that goes for almost every class and build. I think its an interesting metagame experience to play around with the different builds and find the one that is most suiting your way of playing.

If I see some builds being much less popular than others, I will make sure to check them over again and match their power to those that are more popular. This is just the "initial balancing" that will be in the release version. It doesn't mean those values and talents are set into stone.
 

ChaosClouds

ChaosClouds

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Zwiebelchen said:
. Remember that you are not limited to go straight to 5 in one talent. You can also put a 3/3/0 or a 2/4/0.
Click to expand...
Well, i just know about that. I thought we can only choose 1 out of 3 talents.
Based on talent list, let say I'm taking first 3 @ conjuration and last 3 @Invocation. So, i will get first 3 conjuration buff and first 3 invocation buff,
Or is it possible to take the 4th and 5th list from the invocation?
Are you planning to create more skill for further content?
 

Jumbo

Jumbo

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Zwei i so hope that you can pull this off before new year. I'm dying to play your Game again.

Gaias Retaliation isn't just another rpg map like Defiance, TKoK or the like. Gaias is like a total conversion of Wc3. The reason i say this is the graphics, the balanced teamwork gameplay, the beautiful music (from Oblivion especially), and the great atmosphere, but most importantly the fact that even though i've played Gaias since first release, it still hasn't got boring. With the new mercenary feature, it will be much less tedious to do low lvl stuff, since you won't have to depend as much on other players, as you used to. As usual i personally can't wait for this release.
 
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