Forum Organization

[Feng Shui]

Hive's forum organization direly needs an overhaul. Off-topic, for example, is extremely cluttered with subforums right now.

Ooh, ooh! I was gonna say! Swear to God!

Gamer's Hub consists of 11 sub-forums. For pretty much every board, the replies date back to three years ago even just going down the first page. To give you an overview: the Overwatch board has nine threads in total, the Diablo board has eight pages, the Hearthstone board five pages, the HoTS board two pages, etc.

Most other branches of the forums seem to have taken similar routes. I'd understand the split if it was getting difficult to tell threads apart and they had their own micro-communities, but unless they're currently on a two year posting strike there aren't any micro-communities to speak of. Couldn't this be sorted with a tagging system or something?

Trying to cut this down to its atoms, it'd probably make sense to just include forums for as little as

• Latest Updates and News
• Site Discussion
• Modding & Development
• Off-Topic
  
• Hosted Projects

The rest could probably be contained in just that, with tags to separate the threads. It'd probably help deal with the ghost town vibes a lot. Thoughts on this?

 

[Rui]

Very sweet of you to create a topic about this. You shouldn't have quoted me if you wanted any attention given to it, though.

Like I mentioned back there, true innovation is called for. I intend to post a few examples of how I envision the interface, soon^TM.

 

[Feng Shui]

You shouldn't have quoted me if you wanted any attention given to it, though.

That's okay, I'm sure it has less to do with you and more to do with that a majority of what little traffic this site gets is focused at other parts of it like resources and the help zones.

 

[Daffa]

@Ralle @KILLCIDE @Archian @Ghan_04

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@Feng Shui I agree when we talk about ghost towns, but that level of optimization is a bit too much I think. The one that really needs sorting, from what I can really see, would be the gaming section and off-topic in general. OT has 20 sub-forums (all levels included) in total. Pretty sure that's bloat for ghost towns.

Take note Medivh's Tower must be a separate forum as protection due to the strict rules of that particular area.

I also find Sound and Screenwriting feels quite on the dead-end of the stick (low traffic). Those really need some serious revival like the recent terraining revival.

 

[Feng Shui]

Guess it'd make sense to also keep all modding related boards. Modding & Development could contain Requests, Map Development, Modeling & Animation, Texturing & Surfacing, Triggers & Scripts, Warcraft Editing Tools, Terrain & Level Design and WarCraft III Tutorials. I think there could be one for WarCraft Discussion too, or Blizzard Games Discussion, or whatever descript you'd want to go for. In no way would it have to be separated into tiny boards for each and every franchise though.

Here's a somewhat more thorough list of forums I think could safely be merged with bigger ones:

1. Gamer's Hub, LoL, Dota 2, Game Dev, Unity 3D, Programming, Medivh's Tower, Roleplaying, Computer Tech, Something Else, Idea Factory Art & Graphic Design, Sound/Music Art, and Screenwriting could really be merged into Off-Topic. Could arguably maybe keep Something Else to sort out the spam threads.

2. WoW, Diablo, HS, HotS, and Warcraft Discussion could go in Blizzard Game Discussion.

3. Idea Factory, Project Recruitment, Advanced Tech-Tree, Cinematics and Request a Resource (second request forum for some reason) are all questionable side-branches o Map Development.

4. The Lab could just go in Triggers & Scripts, and Jass Class could easily just be a tutorial yeah?

I also find Sound and Screenwriting feels quite on the dead-end of the stick (low traffic). Those really need some serious revival like the recent terraining revival.

It'd make more sense to just post that in Off-Topic. That way there'd probably actually be feedback because more people browse it.

Take note Medivh's Tower must be a separate forum as protection due to the strict rules of that particular area.

As it stands it's more like protection from people posting in it.

 

[Daffa]

As it stands it's more like protection from people posting in it.

It looks like it at the moment, but the whole idea was to keep trolls away from serious debate threads. If it weren't for that, some troll people would have ruined every debate over there as soon as it begins.

3. Idea Factory, Project Recruitment, Advanced Tech-Tree, Cinematics and Request a Resource (second request forum for some reason) are all questionable side-branches o Map Development.

Tech-Tree and Cinematics can still be part of Map Development main forum. Idea and Project Recruit might be merge-able, along with requests, into one forum of it's own. Having them all into one big giant is just changing the clutter from forum to thread level.

4. The Lab could just go in Triggers & Scripts, and Jass Class could easily just be a tutorial yeah?

I propose T&S with WEHZ instead to be honest.

2. WoW, Diablo, HS, HotS, and Warcraft Discussion could go in Blizzard Game Discussion.

I share this opinion. Put all Blizzard games into one place would help. Not sure about Warcraft though, that one got some important particular information that needs to be very visible with Reforged around the corner.

1. Gamer's Hub, LoL, Dota 2, Game Dev, Unity 3D, Programming, Medivh's Tower, Roleplaying, Computer Tech, Something Else, Idea Factory Art & Graphic Design, Sound/Music Art, and Screenwriting could really be merged into Off-Topic. Could arguably maybe keep Something Else to sort out the spam threads.

I propose that Art and Graphics being part of the Warcraft section with the Warcraft discussion and the map development branch.

Need to think this a bit though, some section is actually meant to be split apart and merging them could get messy...

 

[KILLCIDE]

This topic is already being discussed with Administration! However, we would love to see some ideas the community has -- after all, the community uses the forums more than we do

 

[Feng Shui]

Tech-Tree and Cinematics can still be part of Map Development main forum. Idea and Project Recruit might be merge-able, along with requests, into one forum of it's own.

The main take here should be that if you frequent a board that gets no new threads or replies, you stop frequenting the board. I really don't understand why they'd need to be split from the main board so badly that it's more important than that; there can't be a chasm between them so great that they can't go in the same board while at the development stage. If need be, they could probably be separated with [Tags] like at other boards, only called [Cinematic], [Tech-Tree], etc.

Having them all into one big giant is just changing the clutter from forum to thread level.

I don't see how there is less thread "clutter" when each project may end up needing to go in four threads — one for recruitment, one for requests, one for showcasing, one for ideas — instead of all of it being contained in one thread.

This topic is already being discussed with Administration! However, we would love to see some ideas the community has -- after all, the community uses the forums more than we do

Great! It'd be good to see what you guys have at the moment, though. That way it's easier to know what we're dealing with and what to invest time discussing.

 

[Rui]

each project may end up needing to go in four threads — one for recruitment, one for requests, one for showcasing, one for ideas

• Running this was a bit of a nuisance. Still, it offers organisation options for project managers. The problem is they can't moderate their own threads, to keep it tidy. And it's difficult for the Hive's staff to know, all the time, whether a map maker has split up his stuff. Nevertheless, given the benefits for project managers, I don't find this a flagrant issue. I'm also skeptical about all that mingling being proposed for Requests.
  
  
• About merging the Help Zone with Triggers&Scripts, I'm unsure. Granted, the whole reason why those two forums were born split up in the first place was because Wc3Campaigns had it organised that way. I don't know what the Hive's current policy is for these two forums. I can say that, while they were under my administration, I gave each its own focus: the Help Zone was for general editor questions plus from-scratch trigger creation, while threads requesting help to fix a trigger went in Triggers & Scripts. But the root problem, the split... I'm not sure it had any reason for being in the first place.
  
  
• The Cinematics forum was created at a time when that specific map type was blooming and, surprise, the Hive even had cinematic contests. Maybe its isolation from Map Development is no longer justified.

As a side note, when I spoke of this issue, my original concern was with forums' visibility. Merges en masse was not quite my idea to resolve that. I like the Gamer's Hub subforums.

 

[RED BARON]

Guess it'd make sense to also keep all modding related boards. Modding & Development could contain Requests, Map Development, Modeling & Animation, Texturing & Surfacing, Triggers & Scripts, Warcraft Editing Tools, Terrain & Level Design and WarCraft III Tutorials. I think there could be one for WarCraft Discussion too, or Blizzard Games Discussion, or whatever descript you'd want to go for. In no way would it have to be separated into tiny boards for each and every franchise though.

Agreed, as this is mostly Warcraft modding and with Starcraft of course also having its own section entirely.

1. Gamer's Hub, LoL, Dota 2, Game Dev, Unity 3D, Programming, Medivh's Tower, Roleplaying, Computer Tech, Something Else, Idea Factory Art & Graphic Design, Sound/Music Art, and Screenwriting could really be merged into Off-Topic. Could arguably maybe keep Something Else to sort out the spam threads.

There is a lot here that should maybe be kept more together, given reforged. For instance the following have a close relation to modding: Programming, Game Dev, Art & Graphic Design, Unity, 3D - As such I would rather make it one overall notice named similar to say: Game Development (Perhaps with a "Ressources" tagged on).

Gamers Hub I have always thought was just a collection of everything non-blizzard games, where people could meet, discuss e.g. (Clearly I never used it). But as it is an overall thing, I would say sort LoL, Dota 2 under it, then add Blizzard Game Discussions as you suggested, under this tag (Gamer Hub) as well, excluding Warcraft as it itself should be located next to Warcraft lore, modding e.g.

3. Idea Factory, Project Recruitment, Advanced Tech-Tree, Cinematics and Request a Resource (second request forum for some reason) are all questionable side-branches o Map Development.

I say that there is a split, as I would not say that Idea Factory is only about maps, however overall I believe that Idea Factory could be seperated into matching subforums; for instance an idea for a cinematics? -> Use the cinematic subforum and so forth.

4. The Lab could just go in Triggers & Scripts, and Jass Class could easily just be a tutorial yeah?

I tend to agree with Daffa here.

It'd make more sense to just post that in Off-Topic. That way there'd probably actually be feedback because more people browse it.

Seeing as I have never really visited Sound or Screenwriting, I can only judge by name. But Screenwriting sounds like it should be a sub to Cinematics, assuming it relates to a modding project, otherwise it is utterly off-topic given games being the focus of Hive. Sound? I say place it with Sound/Music Art.

As it stands it's more like protection from people posting in it.

I feel like Medivh's Tower just kinda died. I have been a member for years and it never felt like it had any impact on anything. Nor has it been actively managed in years and I would not be able to name a single member of it or how invitations are made to it. I mean, I do not even know if I have ever had a chance to post in it. I would suggest either archive it as part of the Hive museum, or revive it and given how well Hive overall has changed make it an actual serious discussion forum for everyone. People have grown with the site and I doubt we will see as many trolls as we did 10 years ago.

About merging the Help Zone with Triggers&Scripts, I'm unsure. Granted, the whole reason why those two forums were born split up in the first place was because Wc3Campaigns had it organised that way. I don't know what the Hive's current policy is for these two forums. I can say that, while they were under my administration, I gave each its own focus: the Help Zone was for general editor questions plus from-scratch trigger creation, while threads requesting help to fix a trigger went in Triggers & Scripts. But the root problem, the split... I'm not sure it had any reason for being in the first place.

I wholeheartedly agree with that notion. I have always enjoyed the separation as it made it easier to answer queries when one had time, knowing more what to expect when browsing each forum and reducing the risk of questions getting lost.

 

[Feng Shui]

EDIT: Case in point, take a look at Gamer's Hub.



That a split "makes sense" doesn't mean it's warranted. Any number of boards can logically be split into any number of categories. Gamer's Hub could be split into Action, Adventure, RP, Simulation, Strategy and Sports. Map Dev could be split into Pathing, Object Editor, Game Mechanics and Layout/Strategies. All good it'd do is create more rooms filled with nothing but void. Because they wouldn't garner enough attention to sustain themselves. This tooown is coming like a ghost town.

Also I'm guessing maybe that there was a time when the scene was more booming than it is currently. Splitting up boards to make it an easier job for mods to manage makes sense. But each board on the site gets a handful replies each day. It can't be a nightmare to manage.

Running this was a bit of a nuisance. Still, it offers organisation options for project managers. The problem is they can't moderate their own threads, to keep it tidy. And it's difficult for the Hive's staff to know, all the time, whether a map maker has split up his stuff. Nevertheless, given the benefits for project managers, I don't find this a flagrant issue.

To each their own I guess. To me it'd be way more defeating to have my threads not be replied to other than having to sort between what reply is what.

I'm also skeptical about all that mingling being proposed for Requests.

Yeah that's my bad. I thought the standalone "Requests" board under the Warcraft III category was separate from the "Request a Resource" board under Map Dev, but apparently the latter is just a dummy that redirects to the other. I have no qualms with that.

About merging the Help Zone with Triggers&Scripts, I'm unsure.

I only proposed to merge The Lab with Triggers & Scripts. The World Editor Help Zone can probably be left as is.

For instance the following have a close relation to modding: Programming, Game Dev, Art & Graphic Design, Unity, 3D - As such I would rather make it one overall notice named similar to say: Game Development

It's better than having them be split up, I'll give you that.

I say that there is a split, as I would not say that Idea Factory is only about maps, however overall I believe that Idea Factory could be seperated into matching subforums; for instance an idea for a cinematics? -> Use the cinematic subforum and so forth.

A split "exists", yeah. But you could also split it into "I have an idea!" and "I want ideas!". That's also a split. To me, it'd make more sense that if I have an idea about a map project, I'd post in the Map Dev board. If I had an idea about a script, I'd post in the Triggers & Script board. Yadda yadda yadda.

 

[RED BARON]

EDIT: Case in point, take a look at Gamer's Hub.
A split "exists", yeah. But you could also split it into "I have an idea!" and "I want ideas!". That's also a split. To me, it'd make more sense that if I have an idea about a map project, I'd post in the Map Dev board. If I had an idea about a script, I'd post in the Triggers & Script board. Yadda yadda yadda.

Yea, my notion as well-.

 

[Chaosy]

While I do agree that some forums have too little activity to warrant a forum, I think the list provided is not enough.
For example. Screenwriting, Storyboarding & Concept Creation it has a very limited of threads every years and also very limited replies.
Sound / Music Art has the same problem, very few users that keep that remotely active.

But as someone who just scrolls down to the wc3 section I do not really see what is below it anyway

Honestly I would just remove the mentioned forums.
I mean they removed the group features which was almost exclusively used by a bunch of RPers so I do not see why this would be different

 

[RED BARON]

While I do agree that some forums have too little activity to warrant a forum, I think the list provided is not enough.
For example. Screenwriting, Storyboarding & Concept Creation it has a very limited of threads every years and also very limited replies.
Sound / Music Art has the same problem, very few users that keep that remotely active.

But as someone who just scrolls down to the wc3 section I do not really see what is below it anyway

Honestly I would just remove the mentioned forums.
I mean they removed the group features which was almost exclusively used by a bunch of RPers so I do not see why this would be different

Yea I did argue for the group features, but they weren't in this version of the forum software so Ralle had no real choice there. As to removal, I believe that the point is to collect them as to tidy the clutter, thus saving them and also in a way "remove" them from the overall look.

 

[Feng Shui]

Honestly I would just remove the mentioned forums.

By merging them with existing boards, I do mean a form of removal. It'd just move all existing threads into the parent forum. I guess "absorption" may be better suited to describe it.

I think the list provided is not enough.

The Screenwriting and Sound/Music boards are both listed here.

1. Gamer's Hub, LoL, Dota 2, Game Dev, Unity 3D, Programming, Medivh's Tower, Roleplaying, Computer Tech, Something Else, Idea Factory Art & Graphic Design, Sound/Music Art, and Screenwriting could really be merged into Off-Topic. Could arguably maybe keep Something Else to sort out the spam threads.

2. WoW, Diablo, HS, HotS, and Warcraft Discussion could go in Blizzard Game Discussion.

3. Idea Factory, Project Recruitment, Advanced Tech-Tree, Cinematics and Request a Resource (second request forum for some reason) are all questionable side-branches o Map Development.

4. The Lab could just go in Triggers & Scripts, and Jass Class could easily just be a tutorial yeah?