Flight MH-17 and the mysterious missile

[Zwiebelchen]

So, it was confirmed that flight MH-17 that mysteriously disappeared over Ukraine was indeed shot down by a missile.
It's still unclear who fired that missile; Russian separatists? Moscow? Ukraine?

There are a lot of unanswered questions here. Above all: what could be gained by shooting down a plane with 300 civilians from mostly the netherlands on board?

Satellite pictures from russia that showed ground missile activity in Ukraine have been revealed to be hoax:
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-...-released-by-the-russian-ministry-of-defence/
(You should read the actual paper on this website... it's awesome from a technical perspective and a great piece of real investigative journalism!)

Russia seems to try to blame Ukraine.
It's hard to get actual hard facts on this case. All we can get is speculate.


What do you guys think? Russia? Ukraine? Separatists? A lonely military idiot with a loose trigger-finger that gets covered by his government? Who was really behind this?

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

I can tell you the reason the plane was shot down.

another Malaysian airline shot down. why? because they are using civilian planes to spy on war zones. this is why they all get shot down, they see something they shouldn't, bam.

Malaysian airlines have only recently started using their planes to take pictures(spy) on war zones. this is why so many have been shot down/gone missing within the last 4 years.

 

[Zombie]

Fun fact: after the disaster of the two planes, Malaysian airlines went bankrupt and was acquired by the Malaysian government, since no one would fly with them.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Well, the missile was shot from Ukraine so it was Ukraine. Hohoo!

 

[Mechanical Man]

Regardless who shot them down, you should never point a plane in a war zone. Fpr example if you you route it on Israel during an attack in Palestine, Israel would shoot them down and wouldn't make a big fuss about it, after all they already did in 1973. IIRC flying over Kosovo is also forbidden. In Ukraine there weren't fighting some primitive african tribes, but great amount of technology was used.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

Well, the missile was shot from Ukraine so it was Ukraine. Hohoo!

Unfortunately, It's not that easy.

Regardless who shot them down, you should never point a plane in a war zone. Fpr example if you you route it on Israel during an attack in Palestine, Israel would shoot them down and wouldn't make a big fuss about it, after all they already did in 1973. IIRC flying over Kosovo is also forbidden. In Ukraine there weren't fighting some primitive african tribes, but great amount of technology was used.

The russian separatists don't even have any aircraft. So why would the Ukraine launch anti-air missiles? That makes little sense to me.
Besides, I only have layman knowledge about this, but isn't a civil aircraft destinguishable on radar signature from a military one?

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Unfortunately, It's not that easy.

I think people are just trying to make it hard. It's just that easy; it was shot from Ukraine by ukrainies.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

I think people are just trying to make it hard. It's just that easy; it was shot from Ukraine by ukrainies.

Let's just assume that is right, there's two questions though:

1) what would Ukraine gain from shooting a civil plane?
2) why would Russia go out of their way to fake evidence that blames Ukraine then?

 

[Aeroblyctos]

That what I said is a fact and we don't need extra questions to shake that fact.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

That what I said is a fact and we don't need extra questions to shake that fact.

Can you give a trustworthy source for that "fact"?

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Doesn't both west and east mainly say that it was shot in Ukraine territory by ukrainiens? We have to remember also "the rebels" are also ukrainiens.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

Ukraine does have a few things to gain.
blaming the Russians who at the time were invading Ukraine's boarders
and
the fact that the Malaysian airlines has a flag painted on it that looks very simular to Putin's presidential plane. Ukraine could have shot it down think it was Putin who would die.

besides, who when accused of murder, doesn't try and defend themselves. the assumption of instant guilt simple because you stand for your rights from a proper judgement, is simple ludicrous.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

besides, who when accused of murder, doesn't try and defend themselves.

There is a far stretch between "defend themselves" and "fake evidence that incriminates someone else", imho.

Nowadays, I don't trust neither the western nor the eastern media anymore. There's just way too many lies everywhere to get unfiltered info. Sadly, that is the world we live in. Investigative journalism is dead.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

\Nowadays, I don't trust neither the western nor the eastern media anymore. There's just way too many lies everywhere to get unfiltered info. Sadly, that is the world we live in. Investigative journalism is dead.

Well apparently I can't spread rep any more

Absolutely the truth. Journalism has gone right out the window with a lot of other things. It's completely ridiculous. That a reporter can speculate the truth and when proven other wise, keeps their job!!!! Seriously!

Did you see that reporter who faked riots in Kenya. This after an earth quack and food relief packages had to be sent. The result of his Dumbassity resulted in less food packages sent, yet when he was revealed to be an attention seeking troll!!! NO action was taken against him!

He should have been taken to jail!!!

Freedom of speech my ass! What kinda freedom allows your to spread and even create rumours and inform the public about it as if it's the truth!

back on topic...

Malaysian airlines were being used as spy planes. Meaning who ever knew this information was likely to shoot them down.

This doesn't just condemn the Ukrainians or Russia. It means any country that plane flew over, could have been guilty of some crime they didn't want revealed.

Does anyone know the planes full flight plan, including places it didn't reach because it was shot down? It could have just as easily been shot down before it reached the country who shot it down

 

[Mechanical Man]

Unfortunately, It's not that easy.


The russian separatists don't even have any aircraft. So why would the Ukraine launch anti-air missiles? That makes little sense to me.
Besides, I only have layman knowledge about this, but isn't a civil aircraft destinguishable on radar signature from a military one?

They may be paranoid of Russian invasion. And Russia has aircraft, as it's well seen in Syria now. However I think rebels captured some planes, but also you never know what any side may be hiding.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

I think you guys are forgetting the fact that the missile was a surface to air missile and not shot from another aircraft.


in fact it has been calculated down to a Mobile rocket launcher. the type that has to be mounted to a vehicle. according to.the type of missile used.

 

[Blightsower]

This is under off topic which means its not as serious as medivs tower so ive been itching to say this. Use GetTriggeringCountry() to find who did it. Hahaha... Omg that was terrible.

 

[Wasabee]

This was based on the Dutch Safety Board's reports on Oct. 13, 2015

 

[Dr Super Good]

Why are people even discussing this?

The missile was fired from a Russian made surface to air mobile missile battery designed to intercept high altitude aircraft. The model used is deprecated and currently not in active service by the Russian army. When they were taken out of service they were sold as surplus to many countries including Ukraine. It is unclear if all were either sold or destroyed so it is possible the Russian military has access to them for various foreign operations which they do not want to be traced to them (cannot use anything currently in service by their army).

Using such missile batteries is not simple. Operators require extensive training with aircraft identification to minimize the risk of civilian casualties. Some how the Ukraine rebels obtained such a missile system and were using it to shoot down Ukrainian military aircraft. Due to a lack of experience they accidently misclassified a civilian aircraft as a military aircraft and destroyed it.

Despite a major war involving heavy weapons, the Ukraine government failed to shut down the airspace over the battlefield. Since this was a major air corridor this meant a large number of aircraft were flying over the region at any given time. Together with the lack of training of the missile battery operators these two factors inevitably lead to the accidental destruction of a civilian aircraft. Russia, Ukraine and the Rebels all did not purposely shoot it down. Its destruction was inevitably a military accident or a case of "friendly fire".

Such cases are unfortunately common in war. For example last week the United States of America blew up a hospital killing dozens of charity medical workers and an unknown (probably in the 100 range) number of patients. War will ultimately kill civilians, even if both sides agree to not purposely target them. If you are using bombs and guns, ultimately someone not involved will get in the way of them.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

This is under off topic which means its not as serious as medivs tower so ive been itching to say this. Use GetTriggeringCountry() to find who did it. Hahaha... Omg that was terrible.

Dude... 300 (innocent) people died on this plane. Tone it down a bit...

... but I generally appreciate editor jokes, so I can't be mad at you.

Such cases are unfortunately common in war. For example last week the United States of America blew up a hospital killing dozens of charity medical workers and an unknown (probably in the 100 range) number of patients. War will ultimately kill civilians, even if both sides agree to not purposely target them. If you are using bombs and guns, ultimately someone not involved will get in the way of them.

You mean this "little incident"?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/li...suspected-us-strike-on-afghan-hospital-latest

Unfortunately, your scenario of collateral damage makes a lot of sense. I also suspect an idiot to be in charge for that. Unfortunately, he obviously gets covered up by whatever party he belongs to.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

I see... another forum people simple ignore me in -_-

 

[Blightsower]

i notice u TheLordOfChaos201

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

i notice u TheLordOfChaos201

but if people are actually listening to what I'm saying. it will rule out a lot of their arguments.

the plane was not shot down by another plane. it was a surface to air missile shot from a mobile vehicle inbuilt rock launcher.

I think only one guy other than me mentioned this and he was completely ignored too!!!!

how can you revert a discussion back just to support your argument when it has already Been written out!

Aaagh so annoying!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

but if people are actually listening to what I'm saying. it will rule out a lot of their arguments.

The plane was not shot down by another plane. it was a surface to air missile shot from a mobile vehicle inbuilt rock launcher.

Nobody denied it was shot from the ground. This discussion was about who actually fired that missile, not with what.
Also, how can you be so sure about that? You only know what the media knows. And even that can be false, as proven in my link.

how can you revert a discussion back just to support your argument when it has already Been written out!

Aaagh so annoying!

What? Where was the discussion reverted? This discussion was about the possible agenda behind the shot-down, not how it happened.
Also, you state things as a fact that clearly are oppinions.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

all I know is... when I stated that it was a ground to air missile, 2 pixies said a Russian plane shot it down. how I know it was a surface to air missile? like you said the media is supplying me with my information but the evidence they have is hard to deny. they have wreckage of the missile that shot the plane down.

denied that!!!!

 

[Zwiebelchen]

all I know is... when I stated that it was a ground to air missile, 2 pixies said a Russian plane shot it down. how I know it was a surface to air missile? like you said the media is supplying me with my information but the evidence they have is hard to deny. they have wreckage of the missile that shot the plane down.

denied that!!!!

Nobody said it was shot down by a plane. Quote the user that wrote this, because you are seeing ghosts.

 

[TheLordOfChaos201]

yep your right...

someone defiantly said plane though... but I totally miss read what he said.

sorry '-'