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Feature Discussion: Gaias and PvP/Minigames

Discussion in 'Gaias Retaliation ORPG' started by Zwiebelchen, Apr 15, 2014.

  1. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    Another thing I want to throw into here is adding some new flavour to the endgame activity.

    I'm thinking about something like a battleground or a new arena. Or just some minigames. Anything that makes the game interesting aside from constant boss-farming.

    I'm also thinking about how I could reward players doing this stuff without the chance to exploit it.


    The issue I have with adding rewards to team PVP is, that players can basicly abuse the save/load to get rewards without risks. Or that players could just constantly "farm" other players to maximize their rewards. Without true massive multiplayer, a fair PVP reward system is just not possible.


    If we look at the possible game types, I could imagine some kind of mini-AoS, where players fight alongside of NPCs against other players and npcs.

    A capture the flag mode would also be possible.


    For non PvP Minigames, I could also create a mini towerdefence game where heroes get the ability to construct towers and need to prevent creeps from reaching a deadzone (Mytargas).


    So, any ideas here? Especially in terms of non-exploitable PvP, I'm still puzzled how that could work.
     
  2. grekern

    grekern

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    Could make an obstical course with some restrictions like no healing and giving reward based on time and class as some classes can run faster. Would be fun to keep the best time in the save code but I would suspect that it would be too costly.

    You could take some inspiration from uthers part and make some twist on the mini games there.
     
  3. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    MY IDEAS FOR MINIGAMES AND PVP:

    1.
    About the pvp rewards:
    PVP event
    I have been thinking about this, and thought about the idea of making an event. An event where people signed up here to fight each other (2v2 or 3v3) and the winning team getting a pvp reward. (Maybe some special blue accessory item: "Champion's ring"). This event would have to be watched by you (Zwei) or someone you trust to prevent cheating, and only you would be able to give out the reward. Depending on the amount of players signing up, it wouldn't need to take more than 30-60 minutes.




    2.
    Defending the Border minigame:
    Defending the Border
    "Defending the Border".
    Where? - At that camp of soldiers west of ogre ruins, who have otherwise just being positioned there for blocking players from leaving the map boundaries :).

    What? - Players have to defend the border against incoming monsters (from the south). The waves will get increasingly hard, starting with mere ogres (lvl 25-26) and ending after 20 waves with a boss (lvl 50).

    How? - The goal is to protect a certain immovable banner/captain/tower/whatever from being destroyed. This object will be positioned behind the barricades, but so close to them that it can quickly be reached by monsters who aren't engaged by the players.

    Extra feature: 2 ballistas stand at each side of the barricades. When the player attacks them they fire a single shot in a straight line, hitting all enemies (maybe even allies, dunno about that) in its way. The ballistas cannot be destroyed by the monsters, but have a long CD, making the timing of the shooting important. On the final boss phase the ballistas will be out of function to make for a proper boss fight.

    Extra feature two: Make the event startable like Gaspode's in D3, with the exception that players have two choices: One for all the waves and one, designed for lower lvled players, with only the waves up to lvl 30. (approximately 5-6 waves) Perhaps this should end with a matching, weaker, boss giving gear similar in attribute amounts to Ogre boss' drops.

    How To fail? - The event is failed if any of the engaging players (this means you have attacked monsters from the current wave, and are thereby in the fight) run away, if there are no players left, or if if the defending object is destroyed/killed.


    Class Quests


    1.
    Infiltration/Assasination - Thief Minigame:
    Infiltration/Assasination
    "Infiltration/Assasination"

    What? Add 1-2 repeatable infiltration quests for thief classes ala the advanced class quest. Repeatable means that it is the same 1 or 2 house interiors used every time. Each time will be slightly different however.

    How? - the player has to stealth through a guarded house to either: a. steal an item, b. assassinate a target. Steal an item is like the procedure of the thief advance quest. Assassination is some defenseless guy that you have to backstab without getting seen. But how will these randomized quests be different each time? Simple; the guards will randomly with a fixed amount have buffs and curses distributed on them (called lazy and fresh perhaps), making some patrol fast while others are lazy and very slow.

    Reward: The reward for each of these completed quests is a material that can be stacked and used to make 1-3 items for thieves only. These could even make a set: Burglar's Outfit.
    These items are made from recipes bought at some npc near the thief trainer. Their requirements should be a few of the quest reward material + a few other items to make them a challenge to get.




    2.
    Tame the Corrupted Beast - Ranger minigame:
    Tame the Corrupted Beast
    "Tame the corrupted beast"
    What? - A repeatable quest for ranger advanced classes. The player is teleported (by one of the guys at ranger's park in Mytargas) to a closed forest area. A mighty beast is slowly succumbing to the corruption of Gaia, like so many other animals. Because the poison has only recently corrupted the beast, it can still be saved with an antidote. The player is to do that.

    How? - In this enclosed forest area the player activates the beast ("give antidote" like the thieves quest poison in cook's food) and then the fight begins. The beast will slowly lose hp over time (due to the antidote fighting the corruption), but this can be speed up with player's own damage. Player has to kite the beast around (as it deals instakill damage to anyone in melee). Avoiding its attack until it reaches 10% hp, where it will become friendly, and the quest is complete.

    Extra features: The area should be large enough to give the player kiting space. It should be inhabited by a few annoy animals (that deal little damage, and slow the player, but can also be killed), those trees that can be attacked to become bridges over rivers and a few powerups slowing the beast/increasing speed of player for a short amount of time.

    Reward: As with the thief quest suggested above, the quest completion should give the player a special material for ranger classes. Which can in turn be used to create items for either dps or healing. Again this could be a set.




    3.
    Rallying the troops - Cleric Minigame:
    Rallying the troops
    "Rallying the troops"
    What? - Cleric advanced class quest. In an enclosed area of Mytargas the monk/bishop has to support a line of allied troops against invading undead waves making sure at least one soldier survives.

    How? - The player will be forced to use a mix of healing/dps to survive. At several points through the waves all soldiers will be stunned while the player has to quickly nuke down undead summoning portals before large groups of enemies can pass through. This mechanic will give the bishop/monk the chance to explore both damage dealing and healing.

    Extra feature: Powerups will drop for the player to take: Mana orbs and armor buffs, making the soldiers tougher for a duration.

    Reward: special material for clerics, used for making healing/tank-dps gear.




    4.
    The Blowup - Squire Minigame:
    The Blowup
    "The Blowup"
    What? - Squire advanced class quest. In an enclosed mountain area the player has to defeat waves of enemies and prevent them from killing the (immovable) archer captain. The area comprises a line. The monsters will enter from the end of the line and the captain will be situated at the middle. Behind the captain a marked area will be located.

    How? - There are 3 enemy types:
    1: melee, average damage, tons of hp, slow movement speed.

    2: ranged, low damage, low hp, drops healing powerup (only way to heal the player).

    3: ranged, high damage, low hp, high movement, This one will have to be killed quickly due to its high damage otherwise overwhelming the player or captain.

    The trick is to get aggro on all the creatures of 1st tough melee type and then lure them to the marked area, where they will be kaboomed by mortar teams. A timer will be started from the beginning of each round, and the player has to get the tough melee units to the marked area before timer runs out. When it runs out, the mortar teams will shoot the marked area and kill all enemies there. After that, any remaining enemies of the wave must be killed manually. This goes on for X number of waves. Of course the two other enemy types are there to make things more interesting. Shall you kill the damage dealer first, or do you have to hurry the tough melees' to the marked area? Also when to use the healing powerups is a factor.

    Reward: Upon completion, a squire advanced class material which can again be used for squire class only gear recipes.




    5.
    Balance of Elements - Magician Minigame
    Balance of Elements
    "Balance of Elements"
    What? - Magician advanced class quest. A number of power mongering elementals are trying to take advantage of the destabilization of nature by Gaia. The different elements fight each other for total dominance over the others and it is the player's job to stop any of them from succeeding. The battle takes place in an enclosed forest area, where 3 large elementals are the main targets. They are of the elements fire, arcane and water and must be killed at almost the same time for the player to win. They have ranged attacks, are flying and are positioned in a triangle like formation. Around them are 3 obelisks. One for each of their elements. Each elemental deals a lot of damage (200-300 perhaps) but they all have a lot of hp too. They will focus the other two until they are the only one left and then go for the player.

    How? - The key is to dps the elemental that currently has more hp than the other two. If one has too much hp when the other two are dead, it can kill the player in 2 hits. Therefore the player has to be very careful in managing dps. Lesser ground elementals are randomly spawned at the corners of the area and they will go for the player.

    Lesser ground elementals have 2 categories:
    1. standard unit with moderate to low damage, and low hp.
    2.cursing unit, low damage, low hp. Curses the player with slow and mana degeneration.

    The curses have to be dispelled and the lesser elementals have to be aoe'd. Upon killing a group of lesser elementals, a shard will drop (item) + a mana regen powerup. This shard can be brought to either of the obelisks mentioned earlier to deal 500 damage to its corresponding large elemental.

    Reward: Mage material for mage item recipes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  4. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    Don't get me wrong; I love the idea of a community event, but such as thing is hard to manage, as the player base is way too small for something like that (you can't even fill normal games nowadays).
     
  5. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Wrote a few other ideas. Will continue doing so :). Let's see what you feel about them so far.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  6. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    1) I like the idea of a stand-alone wave event.
    If we combine it with automated difficulty scaling upwards if you succeed or downwards if you lose, it could be an interesting thing indeed.
    Kinda like endless mode in tetris: the longer you play, the harder it gets.

    Difficulty scaling could be achieved in numerous ways:
    - spawning more monsters per wave (from a random pool)
    - adding HP/Attack/spellpower dynamically to the units
    - spawning waves faster
    - adding additional abilities to the units

    As soon as everyone died or the core unit died, the system determines how well you performed, using a point system and then throwing out random items from a pool designed for that point range.

    The only drawback is that a thing like this would require a huge amount of items that would probably exceed what we can have in this game (unless I finally decide to make stashes on a seperate loading code).

    For the ballista thing, I thought about something like that in a boss design; but it could still be used here.



    2) The stealth quest idea, however, is imho not so great, as then it would be class specific content which kind of excludes a huge player base of non-thieves.




    3) I also had an idea in my mind that I got from the old console SNES RPG:
    Basicly a dungeon with a randomly generated layout using wall models and props that get dynamically placed.
    When you enter it, your character will be set back to level 1 and you lose all abilities and items (all those things get stored and retrieved when you leave the dungeon again). The dungeon will then be filled with random creeps and bosses of matching levels at reasonable progression. This goes on until eventually you reach level 50 content. Inside this dungeon you will find treasure chests that contain special loot.
    Only the loot inside those treasure chests can eventually be taken outside of the dungeon. Everything else you'll find in this dungeon will be gone once you leave. The idea behind this dungeon is that the later levels of the dungeon get unreasonable hard so that it's a test of courage and skill. You'll also have limited resources as there are no potion vendors inside and that all abilities and gear can only be obtained by pure drop luck.
    So you will always have to evaluate: do I risk dying from this battle and lose everything or do I attempt to kill this next boss to reach the next treasure for more loot to take outside?

    Of course, a dungeon generator is incredibly hard to make and balance. I don't see something like this coming very soon, but it could still be a nice idea to keep in the back of the head.
    Actually, ideas 1) and 3) could even be merged together, by stripping the player of all gear, abilities and levels at the beginning with the same reward system. Do I attempt another wave or rather keep what I collected until now? I love the risk vs. reward aspect of this.
     
  7. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    I like this idea. However, who will decide whether to continue or leave when there is more than one player?

    On a second note: I don't think class specific quests are bad. As long as there is one for each class it will only add to the game. This would allow higher lvled people something to do while playing solo, or just when others are doing something else in a multiplayer game. Personally I like the idea that the characteristics of each core class is made more visible in the game and therefore I believe the class specific repeatable quests are a good idea.
     
  8. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    The thing with class specific quests is, that it basicly quintuples the amount of work required to make those quests. For the effort that has to be put into making those 5 quests, I could easily create another bossfight or two (minus the loot, of course).

    But I'll keep it in mind. If I get proper ideas of class specific quest events for the other classes, I might make something like this in the future.
     
  9. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Done with cleric class quest writing. I will try to come up with something for mage and squire.

    Yes, I can see your point. I simply believe that such class quests are more unique than another boss fight - seeing as we have so many bosses, but only 1 (with my suggestions 2) class quests.

    EDIT: done with them all - for now. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2014
  10. TinyTeaser

    TinyTeaser

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    Hmmm endgame, loads of different things you could do at endgame for people to keep on playing and not get bored of the same old...

    Dungeon Difficulty - Legend/Heroic - A challenge for end gamers, they may have hit the cap level but do they really know their class?

    Treasure Hunt / Map drops - Maps that give a riddled quest making you go all over Gaias for this treasure...

    PVP / War - Now the AI in Gaias is really good, probably good enough to make enemy AI players pvp with random items (like real players) make some stupid or extremely good, + give them a fixed name so it actually feels like its that player "ahh fck that bot besker 'Teaser' is gonna own us again... loool, pvp points should award costume changes/skin changes and high end gear which will help in pvp...

    Achievements...

    Class specific quest that rewards a rare ability.... OR changes the look of skills, showing that you defeated this quest! e.g. Changing the Hunter's wolf into a two headed wolf or something!!?!?

    Endgame things are always 'farmy' and its hard to go around that, the only way to help is to make the farm..fun!?

    (Make sure you add repeatable quest which can only be done in a day! you mentioned that ages ago, hope you haven't forgotten!
     
  11. Kyuzo_dono

    Kyuzo_dono

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    Night camping, BBQ, strip poker, beach volleyball (I think i suggested this before but it got overlooked.. sigh) adopting kids, player houses to buy & pimp, arm wrestling tourneys, spiced food eating contest, happy slapping (not the violent types), tug of war, shoulder wars or kibasen (Jap), who's the weakest link?, spelunking, scuba diving (wait is there even an eligible water body for all these in Gaias.. @~@) are among the free-time activities I'd like to carry out with yall.
     
  12. Eagle XI

    Eagle XI

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    PvP with rewards maybe could be on a seperate Battleground map, you can link seperate maps to use the same bankfile for using same char at SC2, dunno if could func here in MP at WCIII. Maybe you can load your char on a seperate map too, something like the vanilla Alterac valley or an monster-waves survival type within the battleground storyline theme couldve been interesting then you need to spend effort for it too.
    Nah there are boatload of towerdefence maps, please not again another TD :p
    PvP model in middle-earth online where some players turn evil creature for the BG duration could be interesting but any BG would require total player count higher than just 6 to be interesting.
     
  13. BoxOfFaith

    BoxOfFaith

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    I think it'd take some serious PvP mechanic changes to make an actual PvP mini-game relevant. Currently theres some issues with being able to use ensnare/frost cage/dazing trap and simply being able to burst any class to dead instantly.

    Though some more co-operative style mini-games could be fun. It'd be great if you changed Gaspode to a mini-game type thing and allowed us to run D3 without doing the waves. Currently everyone just skips D3 because its so much easier and quicker getting green gear from the foothills and such. If waves could be skipped I think some people would run d3 a few times while leveling up and getting that gear, especially if they're being power trained.
     
  14. S0ulseeker

    S0ulseeker

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    YES. Yes to this 1000x.

    As for PVP This is an idea I've been tossing around for years in the Gaias community and I guess there's no better time to bring it back up. Essentially what you said with the AOS style team co-op What if you had players enter an arena together like gladiators and had to fight together off waves and random bosses. It would require gold or MC's to enter to implement some kind of money sink, would still require team co-op and could easily be rewarded for the troubles if they complete certain challenges.

    There's a map on wc3 called Orc Gladiators I think it describes best what I'm talking about. Basically make it like the squires solo quest but team based and with rewards and money sinks o_O
     
  15. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    The problem with Arena or PvE modes requiring money/mcs is that you can just reload if the reward wasn't what you wanted. So all these challenges, in the end, have to be free.
     
  16. Jumbo

    Jumbo

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    Zwei what did you think about my class quest ideas? I made one for each class now which took 3 hours in total, so hopefully it will at least be of some use.
     
  17. Shamu

    Shamu

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    If you introduce minigames, what will the rewards be? Is it gimmicks, model change options or such things, or gear/other permanent upgrades to combat stats? Or is it simply about getting a highscore?

    If you get rewarded combat stats, will minigames become mandatory for progression?
    Do you intend for the minigames to be fun side activities or basically unavoidable?

    tl;dr: Will minigames or PvP become part of obtaining BiS PvE gear?
     
  18. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    Minigames are a thing of the distant future. Don't expect them in any of the 1.2 updates.
    So I haven't got any particular information I can give yet.
     
  19. galactcus

    galactcus

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    why not a competition minigame? gold or mc for the winner maybe something else a point or a buff...
    like in the dragon ball map
    there is some champions to the match to complete it... so like this
    8 champions in total (computer replace players that arenot in the arena with a max of 7 computer champions so you can go to that competition alone)
    its a 2 champions fight (1vs1) with that form :

    .
    . 1 the winner
    . 1----2
    . 1----2/3----4
    . 1----2/3----4/5----6/7----8



    it happens like every 15 or 20 min... and the place of that fight is the arena...
    maybe there is 10 types of gladiators... (the grunt and the warlock from the arena could be used.... so the mercenaries)
    the position of the players and the gladiators is random... if you partipate you will have to see all the fights... or maybe
    only the fights that have players... ^^


    another idea is Gaia's Curlling
    1vs1 minigame
    a game to play against a player or against computer... like the name said a curlling game
    there is 2 regions that gives 2 points, around 1 region theres is another one
    with a bigger region that will give 1 point and there is a region that gives -2 points
    if you can throw the ball at your friend ball so he can lose his points or maybe you can throw his ball at -2 points region...
    you can use ancient protector's missile and circle of power for the regions... not so hard to make...
    and that is for fun... win the player with more points... (the region is like a dungeon corridor like this = |____| )
    the ball hits the wall and bounces depending on the angle of launch, about the power that the player can throw a ball
    depend of his cast bar (there is a skill or a item on the player called THROW, it create a cast bar, when the cast is interrupted he throw the ball
    if not interrupted nothing happens, the cast bar determine how powerfull the ball goes from 10 to 100%, when the bar is maximized
    it stays for 1 second before it got canceled) Example 50% of the cast bar with a normal ball it go 50% of his normal distance.
    push resistance is the resistance that the ball of a player have to the push of throwed ball from his opponent

    there will be 4 kinds of balls (maybe more)
    every player will receive 5 random balls per time 50% chance for normals 10% for root 25% for heavy 15% for explosive

    normal : distance : 1.0 / push resistance : 1.0
    heavy : distance : 0.7 / push resistance : 1.5
    root : distance : 0.85 / push resistance : 100.0
    explosive : distance : 0.9 / push resistance : none (effect : when reach another ball that ball explode and all the balls in a small aoe, including itself go to random directions)


    maybe that is a npc for the dwarf mine... or for slum district on mytargas...
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  20. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

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    There can not be rewards for competetive minigames games between players, as it's easily exploitable with the save/load system.

    Only PvE content can have rewards.