Exactly what causes units to repeatedly pause when over 100 food limit? and how to prevent it?

[Map Designer]

Hello guys,
if you notice in the video below, both footmen and ghouls keep stopping and their attack move command is "paused" for a little bit.

is this due to having too many units in one game? I dont think this is the case because they are only 2 players.


iirc battle for azeroth, footmen frenzy, and Footmen Vs Grunts maps all have much more units than shown in the video, but I dont remember them having these repeated pauses.

can someone explain what exactly cause this issue? and how do I prevent it in my maps?
is it related to food for each player?
or is it related to the total number of units, regardless of who controls which units?
is it related to me using 1.26 patch? did it become better in later patches? which patch should I be looking for to help against this?

Thanks!

@Dr Super Good @Bribe @Daffa @Maker @Nestharus @KILLCIDE @deepstrasz

 

[FUJI]

Based on the video, there's no obstructions on the path,
But the amount of the units in the area or space is the problem obviously.
Also take note of each unit's acquisition range and collision sizes. Not the food limit.

I don't think pathing calculations are even improved in the most recent versions.

 

[Map Designer]

But the amount of the units in the area or space is the problem obviously.

You mean if the units were not on the screen, things will go smoothers?

Also take note of each unit's acquisition range and collision sizes. Not the food limit.

Can you clarify the impact of these? If I reduce aquesition range things will be better? But that will be very bad. Melee units already have very short aq. range.

I don't think pathing calculations are even improved in the most recent versions.

Then how do ppl play maps with 24 players without running into this issue? It must have been improved.

 

[FUJI]

You mean if the units were not on the screen, things will go smoothers?

No, the things will be noticeably smoother if the units have more space allowance.

Can you clarify the impact of these? If I reduce aquesition range things will be better? But that will be very bad. Melee units already have very low aq. range.

Yes, it might help cause you're almost reducing pathing calculations made
by just reducing the range of acquiring targets for each units (when clustering)
Of course I'm not recommending to lower the values
I'm just stating that those also take into account when a unit is on a pathfinding state.
If you would also mention lowering the collision sizes, the same answer.

Then how do ppl play maps with 24 players without running into this issue? It must have been improved.

Melee maps?
Each player can only have few units to combat (20-30) as their food limit is capped to 100.
Each player controls their owned units in combat very often (they always reordering the units to move at some point)
Each player can only have 12 units to move at a time while also considering the formation of the movement.

These are the only things that you can make to reproduce it;
Ordering 100 units to move at the same point simultaneously by using triggers.
Setting acquisition range or collision sizes very high for each unit.
Creating 500+ units (depends I think)

If you're also watching a 300 ghouls vs some unit, even on reforged, the same thing happens.
However, I don't think that this issue has ever been fixed or even touched by the praised developers.
(Though I'm not considering this an issue on our beloved old Warcraft engine )

 

[Map Designer]

No, the things will be noticeably smoother if the units have more space allowance.

So if these 400 footies/Ghouls were more spread around the map, no one would pause?

If you would also mention lowering the collision sizes, the same ans

I thought increasing the collision size is better in that regard because then the unit just cannot move, whereas if it was small collision the the unit will have lots of paths to choose from. I had this thatbecause a surrounded unit dont seem to have problem for me .

Ofcourse turning off collision completely will be better lol.

Anyway are you sure? Maybe I'll try to reduce peasant collision size. (My peasant cost no food and they got stuck when im call to arms).

Melee maps?
Each player can only have few units to combat (20-30) as their food limit is capped to 100.

First, not only melee, i mentioned azeroth wars, frenzy, and other maps.

Second, in melee if all player got footies it will easily be more than the number shown in video, but i i gue they make lots of flyers which do not require collision stuff.

Third, If you count peasants im sure it will.also reach 400 limit, and if they call to arms, they will have collision.


This issue happened to me when I called to arms with 100-ish peasants (I think they paused while returning lumber)

 

[Dr Super Good]

The path finder update limit per player, not in total. Thus having 10 players with 10 units each will have 200 smooth moving units where as 1 player with 200 units will have movement crawl.

TDs get around this by removing unit collision. Most of the path finder update overhead is updating movement for units that have collided with other units.

 

[pr114]

Just wondering about a few things, as I am also having difficulties with unit stutter in my map;
The players in my map tend to use up to 100 units with ground movement and collision.

- Would sharing control of units to allies increase the difficulty of pathfinding?
- Does movement speed have any influence? I do notice that unit stutter becomes worse later in the game, when players have unlocked movement speed boosts for their units.

 

[Map Designer]

@Kam do you know about this stuff?

 

[Quetra]

Dr Super Good is right here.

I encountered the same problem in my map. There is a limit for orders per player. By splitting the orders between multiple players the movement became smoother.

 

[Kam]

I will look into it further.

 

[Dr Super Good]

- Would sharing control of units to allies increase the difficulty of pathfinding?

Shared control makes no difference.

- Does movement speed have any influence? I do notice that unit stutter becomes worse later in the game, when players have unlocked movement speed boosts for their units.

Yes it does indirectly. Faster speed allows units to run into each other more quickly and also go through distance faster and so need more frequent visits from the path finder.

 

[Map Designer]

BumpBump!
@Uncle @Warseeker what do you think?

 

[Uncle]

I think it's all been covered by the others. Can't really add anything relevant to the discussion