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Elun´dris

Submitted by SayuriTenshi
This bundle is marked as approved. It works and satisfies the submission rules.
aiming for a competetive Suken Ruins Map

smal little high ground gimmick to scout or steal creeps.

the ruins of the old kaldorei city Elun´dris
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Elun´dris (Map)

Reviews
mafe
So, this is another very good map. There isnt anything that I'd say is wrong, and there is a nice idea with the cliffs behind some creepspots, which could be used to lure the creeps/steal lasthits. It's also sensible that those are only around small...
  1. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    Every map is Northeren Isles now lol.

    Not a personal fan of ruins + dalaren, but some experimentation is appreciated.
    I wonder how it looks in Reforged, because we probably have to think about how things look in that game too now >_>
     
  2. SayuriTenshi

    SayuriTenshi

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    1. is Northern Isles a very good map to take inspiration from like u saw with AL u were pretty wrong about it and thats what melee players want.
    2. Anyway i dont see much in commen here, it is line symmetric not point symmetric, has 3 expo not 4, a merc camp, is smaler and totaly has different creeps and layout

    Is every map that has a clean layout and is in a melee standart NI now ?
     
  3. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    NI is fine, but i'm sure you'll agree with me if i say that every new melee map that's submitted look like NI in layout.
    It kills some of the innovation when it became the middle-ground standard for all new maps.

    Like if you look at the maps in the competitive map pool or maps that have been historically played they are all so widely different.
    Last Refuge is a straight forward map with little room for guessing game.
    Turtle Rock is a wierd map with many gimmicks and intricacies.
    Twisted Meadows is a large map where fog of war pays importance and there's lots of room to move.
    What i'm getting at is that there's a lot more variety.
    They might not be as balanced as NI, but they brought flavor to the game.
    In the pro scene they might want more balanced maps, but spectators want the spectactle and interesting gimmicks.

    Each of those maps serve a specific purpose for counterpicking your opponent.
     
  4. SayuriTenshi

    SayuriTenshi

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    yes they are different. but thats why we see so soo few new maps. Map like CH/NI/LR is the standart by now and the most played maps.

    the melee players, pros and Tournaments dicied what maps are best and not we mappers. And they want BALANCED maps with just some new layout. Nothing to wild. Pros dont want to autoban 3 of 7 maps cuz they have to

    AL had 2 times the votes then all other maps so cleary people want a certain balanced standart and nothing special
     
  5. Nudl9

    Nudl9

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    I don't think the pro players are what really determines the maps.
    I think they're more the determining factor in what maps stay in the pools.
    Who decides what new maps that make it into the pool are the tournament organisers.
    You can start a tournament with your own money and people will join.
    That's how a lot of these maps caught on like CH, LR and NI.

    Though i think with the potential growth of viewship around the game, the maps that are spectator friendly will become more important.
    Maps with lots of creeping or maps that consistently last more than 30+ min. will be less seen over time.
    I mean we're kind of already seeing it, with EI and TM getting on the chopping block very soon.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
  6. Knight of Arsford

    Knight of Arsford

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  7. WolfFarkas

    WolfFarkas

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    Any mapper can tell, that there is not such thing as "map finished". you never finish a map because there are always things to improve or fix.
    acording to the rules, a map must be playable.

    in case of melee, wood, creeps, neutral buildings, terrain and a minimum enviroment is enough to submit a map

    Maps that are playable can be uploaded directly.
    It is only common that a melee map, by being tested, bugs and improves will be needed over time.
     
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2020
  8. mafe

    mafe

    Map Reviewer

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    So, this is another very good map. There isnt anything that I'd say is wrong, and there is a nice idea with the cliffs behind some creepspots, which could be used to lure the creeps/steal lasthits. It's also sensible that those are only around small creepspots.
    Some other questions/suggestions/comments:
    1. The lvl 2 permenant at the expanions feels underwhelming, but a lvl 3 on the other would feel quite strong. Not sure about what to do. Lvl 13/14 spots often feel like this to me.
    2. For my taste, the map lokos somewhat too "clean", in particular the shallow water areas. I would have expected some fishes, plants, clams,.... There is lot of attention to great detail in other areas however.
    3. I dont really see any resemblance to NI.
    4. Some of the trees obstruct the view for some creepcamps. You can avoid this by scaling down the trees on the south of the camps (just select them and press "-" on the numpad):
    Currently:
    upload_2020-10-26_20-54-22.png
    After downscaling:
    upload_2020-10-26_20-55-11.png
    5. The northwest part of the map probably wont see much action before the late midgame. Maybe the shop/labs/market could be a little closer towards the center, but of course this would be a lot of work for a not-at-all guaranteed improvement.
    6. Some critters could be placed further away from creepcamps, to reduce the risk of them wandering into the camps, especially at the mercs where the creeps dont sleep.
    7. The lvl 14 camp south of the tavern has a critter nearby, while the respective camp east of the tavern doesnt.

    I'm sorry for the delay in reviewing the maps, but I didnt want to review anything while the contest was ongoing, and then the w3c map stuff took most of my attention. Anyway, map approved.
     
  9. Cigaro

    Cigaro

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    Very interesting visual design. I think you've proven that Dalaran and Sunken Ruins goes well together. What really takes the cake is the water coloring: It looks green when shallow water and blue when deep water, that's very cool. I wish there were some more water basins with blue water in the center of the map so this effect would have an even more prominent place.

    Some of the terrain looks too shattered for my taste. Lots of single pieces of grass that could be "stitched together" to form a more regular pattern.
    terrain-1.jpg terrain-2.jpg

    Most of the doodads look good, like the twin sea horse statues, the little waterfalls here and there, the wells, the obelisks, and the rubble. Some pieces feel out of place though, like the fires:
    area-2.jpg
    Or the random statues:
    area-1.jpg

    The deep water on the edges of the map could use some additional doodads like seaweed.

    ===

    I like the idea of the tiny "scouting ramp spots", and I remember wanting to use them in a different map that had many ramps and where line of sight would be a problem. Wonder if players will make use of them or whether they're too much of a hassle or lead to abuse (like placing DK on top and throw out unexpected coils).

    Many areas of the map feel very wide, just like on Autumn Leaves. Can't say I'm a big fan of that but some my own maps have been labelled "too narrow" before so perhaps I'm no good authority on the issue.

    Regarding map size: It's already a pretty big map. If you made the corners any more attractive (like mafe suggested) it would feel huge. The way it is right could be okay, since most of the creep camps are in the center and you're forced to leave your comfort zone.

    The bottom shop drops 2 power-ups while the gold mine in the bottom left as well as the other shop drop none?

    Is there any particular reason why the Goblin Labs are on high ground? Also, you could smooth the terrain near the top one.