Defend the Relic BETA 6.0

[Moderator]

18:02, 21st May 2009 by bounty hunter2:
Approved with a 3/5 (Useful) rating.

You can find my full review at post #16.

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

hmm... a hero defense... is it any different from any other hero defense? what's your special thing on this map? i require to know why THIS map beats the crap out of every other defense map.

 

[Vixen]

Thank you for the comment,

first, there is no special thing about this map, yet. I'm trying to create a balance between the heroes and the creeps before I go further.

I'm not saying that this map will "beats the crap out of every other defense map", this is just a regular defense map, for now. As hero defense map maker, I know you understand how hard to balance between the heroes, the creeps, the item, and more (A lot of thing should be tested). And yes, I need a lot of tester to check this out for me :/

Thanks for the first comment, any suggestion and idea will be appreciated..

 

[Vixen]

I posted my map in Map Development forum

(Sorry for double post, just now the edit function keeps giving me "page load error" page, it seems working now)

 

[Septimus]

please do not double post, we have the edit function.

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

hmm... yeah, i am a hero defense maker alright, but i think i've solved the problem in another way; using the regular heroes. That's not as much fun as making your own, but at least they're pretty balanced... well... i'll be off to finish my very own, latest HD map so it can go 'Hive' (instead of live )... so i got to just finetune it for now... And septimus'll be pleased, to know that i've learned to stuff those triggerleaks

If you need inspiration for 'twists' i will gladly help you

 

[Vixen]

Yes you're right, using the regular hero is like "what? you again?" xD
but still, it depends how we provide the map.
I have a lot of problem with trigger code. Hmm, maybe I use too many "useless code".
I think I will ask Septimus to check my script, xD

Thank you "The_Clam" D), I will gladly ask you for your 'twists' soon x)

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

Ahh, the first person to use my desired username As you say 'script' i think i got to look at you map.... before i start modding it... BUT! not now, later...

(my GOD i hate my exam question)

 

[Vixen]

Don't worry, I too have a Final Project going on, this is my last semester.. xD
My map is going weird, some says "the portal is floating", "the creeps attacking the portal", "I can't control the hero", "Double hero spawned", "It shows alot of boxes (purple box)"...

Well, I think this is problem with the "map optimizer", or..
I'm using version 1.23, is it affect the user who are using lower version of the Warcraft client?

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

i don't use map optimizer. so i can't tell you

 

[Vixen]

yea well, the thing is.. my first map (not protected) was stolen by someone and he claim it as his own. That's why I always use the map optimizer from now on. (Yes, my 154 hours work is gone :/)..

Then what about the warcraft version?

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

... i'm just using the regular editor... no problems there...

 

[Vixen]

Yes, me too. I'm no longer using WE Extended or whatever its name. It gives me a lot of bugs in my first map. Official map editor is the best :3

I'm doing a lot of change for my map, and it's stressed me out, thanks to anyone who post their comment here and in the forum, it relieves my brain a bit/

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

If it's stressing you out, you should take a break, i've once or twice worked so much on a map, that i couldn't sleep, due to things i thought of, that i had to put in the map, it's not nice. then don't work on it in the evenings and so, and just write down a list of things you want done, do them one by one, even though it may get a bit boring.

 

[Vixen]

Map Updated, BETA 5.0 Released..

A lot of fixes done..

 

[bounty hunter2]

bounty hunter2's Review on Defend the Relic BETA 5.0

Defend the Relic BETA 5.0 is a hero defense map, like many others, where a player takes control of a hero and with the aid of his allies must defend the main building from the onslaught of oncoming creeps. This time it is as in a TD map, whereas a creep enters a circle of power and a life is taken from players.

To start, as I usually do, is the terrain. The terrain is quite average, to lacking. Not good, misses more dodoads, contains to much empty spaces aswell.

Next the heroes, I played only one. The tooltips of the spells were quite fine, the hotkeys aswell. However the spells themselves weren't quite original. The heroes were done in a good manner.

Next, I dislike the hero choice system. Taverns are prefered.

The idea, is well lacking. As in most hero defenses this days, it is nothing ground breaking, however it works and will prove to be a fun map to some line.

The balance is always a problem, and well it should always be worked on. I can't say I saw anything to bad here, concerning balance, you added the difficulty system which is good.

Approved with a 3/5 (Useful) rating.

 

[Vixen]

Thank you for the review, bounty_hunter2.

To start, as I usually do, is the terrain. The terrain is quite average, to lacking. Not good, misses more dodoads, contains to much empty spaces aswell.

Yes, I shouldn't put empty space on the map for now (it will be used for another feature in the later version).

Next the heroes, I played only one. The tooltips of the spells were quite fine, the hotkeys aswell. However the spells themselves weren't quite original. The heroes were done in a good manner.

Most of them taken from the original spells

Next, I dislike the hero choice system. Taverns are prefered.

The reason why I'm not using tavern for hero choice system is to allow players to see the stats, hp, and mp of the hero at maximum level (And yes, too see the model also ).

The idea, is well lacking. As in most hero defenses this days, it is nothing ground breaking, however it works and will prove to be a fun map to some line.

Yeah, I got this idea from the other Hero Defense map, and the shortcut system from my favorite map, Eota-Twilight by DarnYak. There is no special thing in this map. :/

Again, thank you for your review, I really appreciated it..

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

WEll, i played it through too, and some points popped up. i played as animator.
1: enemies DON'T SPAWN CORPSES! ... w00t am i going to use raise dead for?
2: i charmed the enemies... well, they all have that stupid chain lightning ability, i guess you use it for making that extremely annoying "our allies town is under siege" sound. you should remove the ability shortly after, or it will just be awkward.
3: Your abilities is very calculative... it's okay, but the last thing most people want to do, is sit and calculate how many skeletons they'll raise at level 7 animate dead, E.G. i like the calculative thing, but i don't think that most people will.
4: name of soul ... ability changes from soul eater, to soul drinker, i think it was. and, the ability description "10% chance, that you'll regain 200 hp" ... ... ... when? is it on kills?

Unlike bounty_hunter2 ("*'Praised be his name'*") i don't think the tooltips are okay. And you might want to remove that mini AoS... i think it just causes lagg.

The map definately needs a special touch of some sort.

The terrain: When i see dalaran tileset, which is one of the easiest to terrain with, i expect extravagance in the doodads, and beautifully lain tiles. you're on the way, but i want to see twice as may doodads.

Hope you liked MY review!

 

[Vixen]

Thank you for your review :/

#1. Yes, I knew that, my mistake. I've already putted that bug in the map development forum yesterday.
#2. Yes, the reason why all of the enemies has the chain lightning spell is because of "Silence Skill". I'm sure you know what I mean. Will be changed in the next version.
#3. Okay, you're not the first person who said that, I will try to change the description.
#4. Will be fixed in the next version, thanks

Unlike bounty_hunter2 ("*'Praised be his name'*") i don't think the tooltips are okay. And you might want to remove that mini AoS... i think it just causes lagg.

No one complain about it yet, 14 of 21 peoples who reviewed my map ask my to improve the AoS.

The terrain: When i see dalaran tileset, which is one of the easiest to terrain with, i expect extravagance in the doodads, and beautifully lain tiles. you're on the way, but i want to see twice as may doodads.

Tried, lag happens. Loading time increased by 3-5 seconds and causing lag when it played by 6 players or more (based on my other BETA tester)..

Thank you for your review, really appreciated

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

Well, it was just my point of view, use from it what you want

 

[Vixen]

No problem, I always open to get negative or positive review..

All of your comment/suggestion will be very appreciated.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

bad: file name, loading screen, file size, very basic spells, easy mode was INCREDIBLY easy, even with just 4 players.

good: clean terrain and shop area, good use of blizzard spells, nice tooltip work

suggestion: either remove the mini aos or do something with it. Make some more custom spells; at the moment there are VERY few. Remove the time between rounds.

3/5

 

[Vixen]

Thank you for your review, Cokemonkey11..

bad: file name

Bad filename? Can you tell me what so bad about the filename? @.@

loading screen

Loading screen.. If I use custom loading screen, it will make the file size bigger and yet you said "file size".

very basic spells

yes, I will put more custom spells later

easy mode was INCREDIBLY easy, even with just 4 players.

Easy means easy --"
Creeps HP and speed will be increased in the next release..

Remove the time between rounds.

There are normal and extreme mode.. :x

Thank you for your review

 

[Cokemonkey11]

bad file name is a pet peve of mine and I sort of included it in the review on accident (i just copy pasted my notes), sorry there.

Loading screen is sort of useless; you should really just remove it to save on file size. It took me about 5 minutes to get 4 people to finish the download without leaving. I'd say just stick with the standard screen that shows all players loading progress.

If easy means easy, then it should have been "normal" for 4 brand new players. Unless of course the creep amount is scaled based on the number of players or something, in that case it was probably fine.

I didn't know what extreme mode was.

Thanks for taking the time to comment on my review.

I am trying to think of something cool you could do with the mini aos, some sort of minigame or something.

 

[Vixen]

Thank you for the reply, Cokemonkey11..

Loading screen is sort of useless; you should really just remove it to save on file size. It took me about 5 minutes to get 4 people to finish the download without leaving. I'd say just stick with the standard screen that shows all players loading progress.

The loading screen is originally from Blizzard Entertainment, means your Warcraft client has already got that loading screen. It won't affect the file size, don't worry

If easy means easy, then it should have been "normal" for 4 brand new players. Unless of course the creep amount is scaled based on the number of players or something, in that case it was probably fine.

Let me guess your problem, did you read the description of the map? The player 1 should be filled in order to pick the difficulty and the game mode

Your comment is greatly appreciated, thanks

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

Why don't you use a hostfinder? it will find the host. (there's a margin of error though, where it selects anotther player, but whatever) I believe it's downloadable at here some place...

 

[Cokemonkey11]

Thank you for the reply, Cokemonkey11..


The loading screen is originally from Blizzard Entertainment, means your Warcraft client has already got that loading screen. It won't affect the file size, don't worry


Let me guess your problem, did you read the description of the map? The player 1 should be filled in order to pick the difficulty and the game mode

Your comment is greatly appreciated, thanks

The loading screen doesn't necessarily have to have a size to make me dislike it; this, like the file name, was simply something I would have changed and took note of.

I read the description AND was player 1 (I chose those settings). Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[Vixen]

Why don't you use a hostfinder? it will find the host. (there's a margin of error though, where it selects anotther player, but whatever) I believe it's downloadable at here some place...

Oh yes, thanks, I found it here http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...to-make-the-game-check-who-is-the-host-25687/

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

it just seemed ike something you could use

 

[EpixBelongToMe]

hey played the map with 4 friends and yeah here are some points:

- most hero abilities are standard (thats not that bad but kinda boring)
- we played normal with normal wave speed and it was too easy and it got boring after some time
- the items are not very special too just mass stats (and the +x to all stats item cost the same gold like +x to one stat item)
- i played the animator and couldn't use his resurrection spell because the corpses disappear to fast or they were just not resurrectable and it was kinda strange that i can make illusions from everything. so i just copied other heroes and owned the creeps very easy
- a friend had the custom dwarf warrior and the ultimate was kinda strange. sometimes there was only 1 golem and another time there were 4
- the spells scale every bad. at the end most spells are just too weak
- you can attack friendly players and units
- i was able to kill the mannoroth with death and decay very easily but i don't know if that is bad (he was just standing passive around)

so actually it was kinda boring but i'm sure you can still improve it

 

[Vixen]

Thank you for the review, EpixBelongToMe

most hero abilities are standard (thats not that bad but kinda boring)

Yes, the very big problem in my map because I don't understand a single JASS code @.@..
I will try to make non-standard spells in the future version..

we played normal with normal wave speed and it was too easy and it got boring after some time

Yes, it was too easy, many people said that. I don't know about it because I can't test my own map with 2 or more players :/

i played the animator and couldn't use his resurrection spell because the corpses disappear to fast or they were just not resurrectable and it was kinda strange that i can make illusions from everything. so i just copied other heroes and owned the creeps very easy

Yea, that spells and the animator skills will be fixed in the next version. Please refer to map development forum for the details.

the spells scale every bad. at the end most spells are just too weak

That's the common problem in hero defense map, I'm trying to make all of the spells useful until the end of the waves.

you can attack friendly players and units

yes, future version has a boss wave, attacking allies will be use to dispel the some negative magic.

i was able to kill the mannoroth with death and decay very easily but i don't know if that is bad (he was just standing passive around)

Manoroth will be used for the last boss in the future version, but for now, he's just a figure

Thank you for your time reviewing my map

edit:

a friend had the custom dwarf warrior and the ultimate was kinda strange. sometimes there was only 1 golem and another time there were 4

The golem spawns randomly from 1 to 5

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

WEll... you know, you don't have to understand jass to make non-standard spells... it's pure imagination, like when i based an AoE netting ability off cluster rockets, 1 projectile, changed the stun animation to netting... that's just one of the many many things you can do... you can always make GUI triggered spells. My unreleased hero defense have atleast 1 triggered ability per hero, sure, it was a bit hard to come up with all of them, but they work great. And really spices up the fact, that every hero is non-custom. YOU DON'T NEED JASS!!! ... blizzard made their entire campaign in GUI. i think. why not?

 

[Vixen]

Yea, I did that (Very few). But, isn't too much GUI will affect map loading time? I heard this somewhere. That's why I'm afraid to use too much GUI in my map. :/
Hope that's not true..

 

[Cokemonkey11]

WEll... you know, you don't have to understand jass to make non-standard spells... it's pure imagination, like when i based an AoE netting ability off cluster rockets, 1 projectile, changed the stun animation to netting... that's just one of the many many things you can do... you can always make GUI triggered spells. My unreleased hero defense have atleast 1 triggered ability per hero, sure, it was a bit hard to come up with all of them, but they work great. And really spices up the fact, that every hero is non-custom. YOU DON'T NEED JASS!!! ... blizzard made their entire campaign in GUI. i think. why not?

blizzard made the GUI, so naturally anything they wanted could simply be programmed for them in the Jass backend.

Hope that makes sense.

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

Don't think it does coky if they made it, they should make their own campaign, to set an example of what you can achieve in GUI...

to Vixen: Fuck map loading time. i have SO many gui triggers in my map, and it only affects loading time a little, and if people can't live with the loading time, they're not worthy to be playing your map. Of course, if it takes 30 mins... that's something else.

 

[Vixen]

Glad to hear that, that mean I don't have to worry about too much GUI in my map..
I was like "oh my, too much script, my loading time will takes some time and the game will be lagged".. You're my personal morale booster xD

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

glad i am i am doing nothing but making GUI spells... and i always make gui triggered spells for my maps. Sometimes, it does create lagg, but that's nearly always due to something i've done wrong. or spammin' For loop integer A from 1 to 99 do: Kill random unit from units in playable map area wait 0.01 seconds.
Which of course is a bad idea. If you need help with ideas for the spells, just give me a call.

 

[Vixen]

I will gladly ask you for spells idea. I'm out of idea @.@
Of course I will give you credit for your idea

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

hehe want some already? i can also help at making them... Give me a PM, when you want some... also, you migt want to give me an instant messenging address, if we should work more efficiently.

 

[Vixen]

Yea, faster is better
I will pm you my msn.

 

[Cokemonkey11]

glad i am i am doing nothing but making GUI spells... and i always make gui triggered spells for my maps. Sometimes, it does create lagg, but that's nearly always due to something i've done wrong. or spammin' For loop integer A from 1 to 99 do: Kill random unit from units in playable map area wait 0.01 seconds.
Which of course is a bad idea. If you need help with ideas for the spells, just give me a call.

Waiting .01 seconds is almost always a bad idea.

 

[Gamecrafter_DK]

Aye, there'ssomething about that it is actually 0.10 seconds, and the caster, caster position and target is forgotten or so, right?... i'm not entirely sure what it is, that happens... but it's bad anyway...