Continuation of WC3's story

[Razosh]

No I said STORY like Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter or Game of Thrones (in a much smaller scale but still it's basically the Starks versus the Lannisters).

 

[Edhel-dur]

The first two are fairy tales, there is no clear good or bad guy in GoT.

Actually I don't like either of those anymore. Kinda passed the moment. They were cool when I was 13, 16, even 20. But after 20 they started to decline in value in my eyes.

So, back to WoW. Yeah it is bad because there is no dynamic. In Wc3 RoC you could say it's a 'good' vs 'evil' scenario, but even that it's not really clear. Some orcs were 'good' some were 'evil'. Some humans were 'good' some were 'evil'. Eitherway, Wc3 TFT is anything but good vs evil. Then comes WoW (as timeline) and it's all about good vs evil. Boring stuff, regurgitated over and over and over again.

 

[Razosh]

Yes I also enjoy stories were it's not just completely black and white such as the Eragon books, but that does not mean I can't enjoy a fairy tale every now and again.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Tell me a cool part of the WoW story.

 

[Razosh]

Ok how about the latest WarCraft novel that came out the 19th of this month in where the proto-dragon Malygos carries a large sharp rock almost the size of himself and jams it down the throat of Galakrond while he is distracted by Nozdormu, Alexstrasza and Ysera who are assaulting all of his eyes blinding eye after eye after eye. However Galakrond is about to cough up the stone so Malygos realize that he must have to use something bigger to keep the stone in Galakronds throat so he dives into Galakronds gullet and bashes the stone deeper and deeper down while fighting an undead proto-dragon in Galakronds throat.

 

[Edhel-dur]

By WoW story I understand story portrayed into the WoW game.

What u wrote is from a Warcraft novel, if it's labeled WoW is just for marketing, but it's from a novel, not the WoW game.

But even so, explain to me why is that cool? Because it has dragons, proto-dragons and undead proto-dragons?

 

[Razosh]

No because of the way it's written. Even though you know the outcome Richard A Knack has you shitting your pants every five minutes out of excitement.

 

[Edhel-dur]

I'm still waiting for a story from WoW, the game.

Actually, not knowing or not being able to guess the outcome of a story, is the strongest point of any story and at that point the story has real value.

When I guess how a story is going to end, for me it lost all of it's value, because I know that everything which is happening in the story, will eventually lead up to a point which I already know, and it stops to shock me, and it just becomes boring.

 

[Razosh]

Well here's the thing though about Dawn of the Aspects. We thought we knew how it was going to end in reality we had no idea.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Yeah but that wasn't the main plot of Cataclysm was it? Main plot of Cataclysm was to defeat Deathwing. The fact that all the Aspects lost their powers, exists to somehow save the ending of Cataclysm, by making the player put questions to himself like "If the BL come again, it's just us mortals and no more help from dragons... welp". That's the same thing with WotLK ending where "there always needs to be a lich king".

Still waiting on that WoW story.

 

[Razosh]

What does Deathwing have to do with Dawn of the Aspects?

And what about the old gods then? They are so power full that they can not be slain while their minions reek havoc upon the world.

 

[Edhel-dur]

That's another book. I thought you understood I am talking about WoW ingame story, as that is WoW.

What about the old gods then? I'm not really interested in their fate since their existence or nonexistence doesn't affect my life.

 

[Chaosy]

That would never happen lore wise. If the lich king dies a new one take its place why risk lifes on helping him?
also that kinda happend, KJ hunted illidan.

and from the burning legion got no benefit on wasteing troops again him its the mortals they want to kill.

 

[Razosh]

I AM TALKING ABOUT INGAME STORY!

Deathwing was serving the old gods directly and the Lich King and the Burning Legion indirectly.

And why do you want me to give you something you like when you're hell bent on not liking it when I've not even mentioned it?

 

[Edhel-dur]

That would never happen lore wise. If the lich king dies a new one take its place why risk lifes on helping him?
also that kinda happend, KJ hunted illidan.

and from the burning legion got no benefit on wasteing troops again him its the mortals they want to kill.

Guys, it is a fantasy. There is no real rule that if one lich king a new one must take it's place. That is all made-up in order to achieve certain things.

So with a story it's about what do you want to achieve and how you want to achieve it.

In a story you want your reader to ask himself "wtf is happening here?", you want him to be engaged and have him try figure things out without actually letting him figure them out.

For example, in wc3 tft we were all wondering why does Illidan want to destroy TFT all of a sudden. What's up with that? What's TFT anyway? Until Illidan explained himself someway in the middle of the campaign, we couldn't guess that. There were hints in Wc3 RoC that the Scourge wanted to leave the BL, but nothing was clear. Now the time was right, and the Scourge broke off from the BL. In retaliation, the BL 'hired' Illidan to destroy TFT by any means necessary.

Is there a clear good guy in this scenario? Is there a clear bad guy in this scenario? Would we have known at the time how it would have ended? Could we have been so sure that Arthas was going to defeat Illidan? Illidan looked pretty damn strong, while Arthas was losing power.

But in WoW?? It's just boring. I don't care that Arthas cut his heart out, that in his mind there is a child which represents him, I don't care about any of these... why? Because it was clear since before I started the journey that he will die by my hand just because.

 

[Razosh]

Archrimonde seemed kind of evil to me.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Yes, Archimonde is like the Overmind in SC:BW. I agree that Wc3 RoC is the more generic fantasy story, with big bad army and generic alliance between mortal races. However Archimonde wasn't the spotlight of the story in wc3 roc. I wasn't convinced he would die at mount hyjal till I actually reached that last mission. Furthermore I didn't knew what would happen to Arthas, Illidan, Jaina, Thrall, so many characters.

But in WoW? WoW has such a dull story.

 

[Razosh]

It does not have as good of a way at story telling as WarCraft III I'll give you that but if you want to get deep into wow lore the best way is to read the novels, you could start with Day of the Dragon which was released in february of 2001 as a follow up to WarCraft II.

 

[Edhel-dur]

So we agree that WoW story sucks.

 

[Razosh]

No the way they deliver it ingame sucks however the story is still good.

 

[Edhel-dur]

The story is linear and simplistic.

 

[Razosh]

Once again read the novels and you wont be saying that ever again. As I said WoW has a really good story but you need to put down a lot of energy besides playing the game too understand it.

 

[Bernkastel]

I'm still bringing back the Lich King shits. Even though I'd like the idea of Ner'zhul taking over Bolvar's mind. But, well. It just happens that in Arthas: Rise of the Lich King it's said that Arthas killed Ner'zhul's presence in his mind. And.. Well.

When asked about Ner'zhul at BlizzCon 2010, Chris Metzen said, "Yes. Yeah, Ner'zhul is done. He served us well in that capacity, but really the Lich King idea... really is the ultimate expression, you know, as Arthas or whatever. Ner'zhul's done."

 

[Razosh]

Yep it's a good book but the best books has to be the War of the Ancients trilogy.

 

[Edhel-dur]

If when I'm asking for good WoW story example and you tell me to read the novels, that means that WoW story sucks.

If you disagree, tell me which part of WoW story (in-game, not novels) is good?

 

[Bernkastel]

First you're trying to tell me that Ner'zhul ain't dead, and now you act like an idiot?

 

[Razosh]

No I believed he was alive, you proved me wrong and I accept that.

 

[Rui]

I feel tempted to see Game of Thrones but I don't like copious amounts of sex

 

[DivineLight]

whoa, Rui.. you watch Game of Thrones?...
well i'm not really like it anyway

 

[Razosh]

Game of Thrones is a good series I don't know who watches it for the sex though, the good thing about Game of Thrones is the deep story, the messed up politics and the great acting by actors such as Peter, Lena or Sean Bean.

 

[Rui]

I mean I've never watched it, but so many people talk about it.

 

[DivineLight]

oh i see ~.~"
well I don't like the sex scene, but the acting was great..
but i rather watch some Anime or comedies than that
Rui don't make conclusion before you watch it (some ppl change their minds when after see something ~.~".. i hate that, but sometimes i did that too )
mybe i'll create new thread, what is your Favorite movies! even i don't know what movies i like..
better imagine Warcraft, get an idea, create a resources
but i rather choose to play or gave an idea than create something ..
in Warcraft history they didn't even give their abilities, like what abilities doomhammer had.. no one knows

 

[Razosh]

Alright sorry for the misunderstanding, you should try to at least watch the pilot and if you like it you can keep watching the series and if you don't you move on with your life.

 

[Rui]

I was into it for the story more than anything, I feel a void of good stories :< but talks of sex set me off.

 

[Edhel-dur]

I was into it for the story more than anything, I feel a void of good stories :< but talks of sex set me off.

All I keep hearing is two things: Game of Thrones and Vikings (by History Channel).

I watched 2 (of 3) seasons of GoT... hmm... it's a nice mix of story with character development. The sex scenes, too few are required compared to how many are shown. It's obviously used for marketing purposes. Tbh can get annoying. What impressed me most, is that if a character needs to die, no matter how important that character is for the plot... it will die.

Vikings on the other hand, wants to be a historical documentary about the said people. The first season it's about Ragnar, one of the greatest vikings ever. Their notion of marketing isn't translated into many sex scenes, but rather wacky-not-a-viking looks/characters.

 

[takakenji]

Yep it's a good book but the best books has to be the War of the Ancients trilogy.

best book and war of the ancients trilogy hhaahahabaha oxymoron

and to your earlier reply to me "no story is perfect" wows imperfections have become so prevalent and bad they have ruined the universe.

 

[DivineLight]

Edhel-dur
well that killing the watchers, their hero is die..
Edited: wait, Vikings' movies don't contain sex scene that much

wacky-not-a-viking looks/characters

that's bad

Razosh
i watch that already, wait what that movie all about?
it's the one with the ppl stuck in the plane right?
if wrong then i'm watching fake movie

Rui
don't watched it then
oh i know track the stories but when it's about sex again.. change the channel.. when it's passed go back to the story.. if their sex has romantic moment i'll gladly watch 'em

 

[trolman]

Very nice thread derail, rui

 

[DivineLight]

oh, come on trolman
this thread is in Off-Topic forum which mean it's thread can also go Off-Topic
don't blame Rui

 

[Razosh]

No what I meant was the pilot episode of Game of Thrones, every first episode of a series is always called a pilot.

 

[Rui]

Sorry :<

EDIT: Okay sorry, I am convinced someone spoke something about Game of Thrones and I just went along, maybe the post has been deleted.

 

[Razosh]

And besides Rui there's actually only a lot of sex scenes in season 1 & 2 since the sex was pr trick to get more people to watch, thankfully there becomes fewer sex scenes as the seasons progress and hopefully in just a season or two the nudity will be completely removed.

 

[DivineLight]

Razosh
oh, i'm watching fake movie.. dammit
yea people use sex scene to get much viewer..

Rui
it's ok, relax.. as a driven water (i don't even know what that supposed to mean xD)
anyway we've change our topic here (i.. guess)

 

[PROXY]

I actually like WoW lore. Fuck me right?

 

[Razosh]

Finally someone who agrees with me.

 

[Chaosy]

I loved the lore until panda land. But now the lore is boring. But wow lore is not bad in general

Its the gameplay together with the lore that made the game awesome. If you would count my vote in. I have played every expansion.

 

[DivineLight]

i don't know anything about WoW cause i never played it..
so i listen to you guys' story

 

[chr2]

@Edhel-dur
So, you wanted a "good" WoW story? By your own principles, this means that the outcome must be unpredictable, and that there's no definite good guy vs bad guy, yes? I'll start out by saying that the main plot of RoC certainly doesn't follow this definition. There, we have the united forces of Azeroth standing against the big bag Burning Legion, who, in the end, are defeated (who would have guessed, right?). Of course, this is just one of many plots in the game, and, as you've mentioned yourself, TFT very much moves away from this black and white portrayal of the world. Another thing worth mentioning is the difference of the story element in the two genres. While the story plays the central role in the RTS genre, the MMORPG has to have other just as important elements for it to be succesful.
As for the WoW story. Personally, I was very intrigued by how they made Garrosh's story. To begin with he's this lost son of Grom, who's been living with the shame of his father drinking the blood of Mannoroth. Now, as the player (and eventually Thrall) encounters him, he learns that Grom ended up freeing the Orcish race from the demons. After this he goes to war in Northrend, and eventually becomes the Warchief and so on. Garrosh is initially portrayed as being hot-headed, agressive, and somewhat racist. He also brings the war with the Alliance to a whole new level. This is when things start to get interesting. In the Stonetalon Mountains (Cata edition, of course), Garrosh is shown to develop more sympathic traits, and it is hinted that Garrosh's story would eventually lead to redemption. This, however, is not at all what happens. Garrosh starts to lose his grip more and more, and actually ends up doing exactly what he was opposing in Stonetalon (dropping a giant bomb, that is). In the upcoming WoW patch, Garrosh is going to be the final raid boss, and even his own Horde has to fight him.
Note that I am in no way saying that the story in WoW is even close to being as good as the one in WC3. However, I do think it's better than what you give it credit for.

 

[DivineLight]

that's ironic
and his son has do the same thing as his father (like father, like son)
doesn't he just like grom? after grom drinking the blood of Mannoroth the horde has to fight him.

 

[chr2]

that's ironic
and his son has do the same thing as his father (like father, like son)
doesn't he just like grom? after grom drinking the blood of Mannoroth the horde has to fight him.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree after all.