Illidan vs Arthas (Spoilers)

[Durgon]

Thats right I have brought up the subject of Illidan vs Arthas, we all know they fought at the base of the Frozen Throne and Illidan was defeated in a rather fast sword fight. But lets take away some Home Game factors that Arthas had.

Firstly I belive Arthas had a much bigger advantage over Illidan not because he has frostmourne but because he was right near the vary source of intense power. I think it was pretty obvious that the Lich King was feeding its reserved power too Illidan when they fought because lets face it, if the Lich King didnt give Arthas some of its power it would have been risky as Illidan might of won and destroyed the Lich King.

However im not laying Illidans defeat entirely on the Lich Kings contribution, we also know Illidan messed up and decided too go air born too get some space between himself and Arthas which left him very open too attack. I will admit very bad move by Illidan.

But I still think that Illidan can beat Arthas, why? Illidan has thousands of years of Experience and it was shown that he managed too overwhelm the two handed blade of frostmourne with a flurry of attacks before having too jump away. Illidan also has control over magic much better than Arthas does. Hes quicker which can mean alot in a fight and like I said hes more skilled.

So if anyones up for a good and friendly debate lets here your side of the story, me im still sticking with Illidan.

 

[brad.dude03]

Dude Arthas wtfpwns all. With the Lich King, it doesn't matter how powerful Illidan is, because it wont cut it. Perhaps Illidan may be older, but he doesn't have any more experience, he didn't spend his 10 thousand year imprisonment working on his moves, remember? As well, Arthas was absolutely not getting power from the Lich King... that's why the fight went on as long as it did. Thanks to Illidan rupturing the Frozen Throne, the Lich King was weakened, and Arthas had to return to Northrend so that Illidan couldn't kill him off before Arthas got there. The whole battle was faught by Arthas alone, with no outside help, as the Lich King needed everything to keep himself alive.... or whatever his state is. Also, Illidan is HIDING from the Burning Legion, whilst Arthas continues his campaign against Azeroth oblivious to the threat of the Legion. This tells you something about the kind of power he's commanding. Remember, the Lich King recieved powers directly from Kil Jaeden which, when combined with Arthas' already formidable powers, made him nearly unstoppable as a unified being. Arthas also wieds magic, but in a different form. If you recall, the Lich King, as well as now Arthas, have the power to control and corrupt the minds of things around them. Every creature in Northrend has been bent to serve the Lich King's will. This is power untold when compared to Illidans, because the Lich King can command vast armies, where Illidan is only one stupid elfboy. Just my opinion of course xD Arthas ftw!

 

[Durgon]

You bring up some good points,I forgot about Illidan being shackled and having no movement at all but I thought the Lich King was just Ner'Zhul's spirt in some armour. And Ner'Zhul was just an Orc a powerful one at that. However if hes just a normal mortal and not a demi god how is it that he is the most powerful being? Thrall is a powerful Shaman and possibly the strongest Orc out there beside Saurfang so what gives why is Ner'Zhul so powerful that no being can contest with him in any way?

 

[brad.dude03]

Well, no, Ner'Zhul was a powerful orc to begin with, as he was a shaman, but Kil'Jaeden, in return for Ner'Zhul doing his job as Lich King during WC3 to prepare for the Legion's invasion, was granted huge powers. The Legion grew afraid of him, and Ner'Zhul turned against them when he grew powerful beyond their control. That's why Illidan was sent by Kil'Jaeden to destroy the Lich King: he was becoming too powerful.

 

[Eggy]

Illidan can't die, hes a hybrid elf who gained the powers of Ner'zhul and he became a super hybrid, only reason he lost, because of his eye sight diffrence to arthas, Arthas abused this and cheap shotted illidan, but they both fought vigilintly, both wanted for their own reasons, not to help anyone. IMO,

Jim Raynor or Sarah Kerrigan should be the victor's. They are both pure hearts, unlike Arthas and Illidan.

 

[pandamanana]

Sarah > Jim becuase shes a ghost. And Arthas > Illidan becuase Illidan forgot to take his bi-polar meds and he was really depressed during the fight.

(what about Rokhan vs (that Beastmaster in the campaign)...)

 

[brad.dude03]

Er... you realized that Ner'Zhul is the Lich King, right Eggy? So what you said just contradicted itself. Why would the Lich King give Illidan powers to defeat him? Exactly. I think you meant Kil'Jaeden and he certainly can die, just because some stupid demon gave him a bit of magic....

 

[Eggy]

IMO Raynor > Sara mainly because Sara went evil

Rexxar would pwn Rohkan.

Illidan > Arthas

Panada Hero > Murloc Hero

 

[Kimbo]

Illidan was sent to kill the lich king/Ner'Zhul

Ner'Zhul was originally a orc warlock who failed hes task given by Kil'Jaeden to turn the orcs on draenor into the blood thirsty warriors(Ner'zhul failed and refused,hes apprentice gul'dan i think did the task and Ner'zhul later saw that hes once happy people turned into bloodthirsty and sadistic monsters).

The portals to azeroth and such were open but they were causing the world of draenor to collapse and ner'zhul realised hes people would all die, so he fled through a portal with the remaining orcs he could find but was ambushed by Kil'Jaeden and hes demon warriors in the netherworld.

Kil'Jaeden punished Ner'zhul by ripping hes body limb from limb slowly and keeping Ner'zhuls soul alive to witness hes bodies dreadful demise.

Ner'zhul begged and begged to be put out of hes misery but Kil'Jaeden had other plans. He sent Ner'zhuls soul flying towards the freezing blizzards of notherend and casted hes soul upon an icy throne, frozen solid.

Ner'zhul was given a new body, although different he was given the powers of mind control and took control over the creatures of nothenrend and revived them as the undead to do hes bidding.

Ner'zhuls task was to infect the world so it would be ready for when the burning legion had returned and the Dreadlords(forgot there name) were sent to make sure Ner'zhul did hes task, but later they saw how powerful the lich king got(he was later renamed) and decided to work with the lich king.

Ner'zhuls faithful orc warlocks became mangled and twisted and became the Liches you see in wc3. They were given the power of ice etc blah blah.

Ner'zhul knowning he would be destroyed as soon as he finished hes task decided to find a new host... thus, Arthas.

Kil'Jaeden knowning of the lichkings betrayed bartered with illidan in exchange for powerful magics from beyond the world was giving the task to destroy the lick king before hes power became too great and blah blah..

blah blah..and thats all i can think of from my head.. the story of it is in the wc3 manuals you should have gotten when you brought wc3.

Im very sure im wrong in some areas but im sure im on the main track of it. If not, mecheon will correct me

EDITED due to a massive amount of spelling mistakes.

 

[Eggy]

Wow, werewulf is like a never ending WC3 Bible, lol

knows everything!

 

[brad.dude03]

Wulf, it's his not hes And you were pretty much right except for the Dreadlors joining the Scourge... that never happened, the Dreadlords were sent to watch over the Lich King, and Arthas killed them all... I think...

 

[Kimbo]

yes, i have a nasty habit of "hes,he's and his" thing.. my teachers arnt happy about it either...

anyway, heres the part, i found the book:
"Kil'jaeden called upon hes elite guards, the vampiric Dreadlords, to police Ner'zhul and ensure that he accomplished hes dread task. Tichondrius, the most powerful and cunning of the Dreadlords, warmed to the challenge, fascinated by the plague's severity and the Lich king's unbridled potential for genocide."

and with the aid of the dreadlords Ner'zhul also crushed the plague immune Nerubians and their mighty empire.

Malganis(i think) the dreadlord also manipulated Arthas into retrieving Frostmourne and listening to its corrupted speech,so that Ner'zhul could escape kil'jaedens wrath, thus meaning the dreadlords were in tie with Ner'zhul. Ner'zhul needs both arthas and the Nathrezim(dreadlords) with out either hes force over the world would be weak, and if the dreadlords were all killed, then kil'jaeden would have been alerted right away to kill the lich king.

And no, i am no lore master, Mecheon and Xaran Alamas are the masters. But mainly Xaran Alamas, since he actually talks to Metzen i hears.

EDIT: sorry, my post seems twisted, i thought u meant Ner'zhul later killed the dreadlords.

EDIT: here is a list of the dreadlords: http://www.wowwiki.com/Nathrezim

 

[l33t5up4h4x0r]

Well back to the topic, right now Illidan's army could not overpower Arthas's undead army. And obviously blizz is giving players a higher level cap for the coming of arthas as the new epic boss. Tho Illidan is powerful and amazingly cool, i doubt he could pawn the power of arthas now. Yes, he has the twin blades of Azzinoth and the eye of sargeras(it think he still has some powers from this); but he is no match for the might of the lich king formerely powered by Kil'jaden. Plus if you check, i think froustmourne gives 50% lifesteal ryt? That pawns Illidan's twin panda blades warcraft 3 wise. hahaha

 

[Durgon]

Well I just hope that when the 40 man raid gets Arthas down too 0.05% Health everyone is stunned and Illidan flies out of nowhere landing the killing blow on Arthas and then saying "You were not prepared".

 

[EviL_BuddhA]

Illidan can't die, hes a hybrid elf who gained the powers of Ner'zhul and he became a super hybrid, only reason he lost, because of his eye sight diffrence to arthas, Arthas abused this and cheap shotted illidan, but they both fought vigilintly, both wanted for their own reasons, not to help anyone

Illidan isn't a hybrid elf to begin with Illidan never went to Lorderon with the high elves and he was never blasted underneath the ocean with the quel'dorei he is just a normal night elf sorcerer who consumed the skull of Guldan... In a way he is a hybrid but he wasn't one to start off with! oh and for the record Arthas better than Illidan... Kael cooler than arthas(I know it has nothing to do with this post but he is)

 

[Rui]

Heh, the Lich King just wanted to get rid of the Dreadlords. By bringing Arthas to Frostmourne he finally consumed Arthas's soul and defeated Mal'Ganis; two rabbits in a single shot.
Arthas also pursued Illidan to consume the skull of Gul'Dan and defeat Tichondrius.
Finally, the Dreadlords were finished by Sylvanas herself.

And it is true the Lich King was loosing his power, but Kil'jeaden knew it would be of no good if Arthas came to his help. So Illidan just had to be sent. Otherwise, the Lich King would have decayed to death, and Illidan would have been rewarded.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Arthas won because his soul was drained by froustmourne so he can fight without any feeling at all,also froustmourne is a very strong sword out of himself. The lich king was near yes but his powers where diminishing remember? so i aint sure about that he gave power to arthas just to win maybe he needed it himself to survive until arthas arived. and well illidan wasnt rly full of confidence,he just had an assignment to take care of from Kil'jaeden so he was forced to do the job and he didnt get anything in return?
Well arthas had a better goal then illidan because his reward was HUGE ..

EDIT - Oh yeah and i think you wouldnt be able in WoW to defeat arthas ..

 

[HappyTauren]

sure, that would be like end of game... and wow never ends...

 

[The_wand_mirror]

sure, that would be like end of game... and wow never ends...

haha for blizzard lets hope not ... hope they make more good games in the future .. they are kind off sticking to WoW now? ..

 

[brad.dude03]

Yes they are sticking to WoW, as I've said a billion times before: why spend millions making new games when you get garunteed millions in profit from WoW by releasing little new content updates every now and then to keep the players happy. BUT THIS IS NOT THE PLACE TO DISCUSS SUCH THINGS. PS the twin blades of Azinnoth aren't all they're cracked out to be... I got em on a private server in WoW and I think the only thing worth keeping about them is that they have good DPS (172 dps) and +100 stam... thats the seperate ones.. together they aren't as good. And again: the Lich King is only growing in power.... Illidan is stuck in Burning Citadel hiding away behind hordes of body guards... that's a real sign of confidence in powers...

 

[The_wand_mirror]

When ur hiding .. ur confidence ? .. eh ... ok ..

 

[brad.dude03]

Did you not understand? I'll put it into idiots terms then: Illidan is protected by a bunch of thugs and is hiding. Arthas is out there bullying everyone else, completely unafraid of the Burning Legion, which Illidan happens to be hiding from.

 

[Eggy]

Illidan nor Arthas are good, both are evil, both want diffrent desires, both were ONCE good. Both got curropt, end of story.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Did you not understand? I'll put it into idiots terms then: Illidan is protected by a bunch of thugs and is hiding. Arthas is out there bullying everyone else, completely unafraid of the Burning Legion, which Illidan happens to be hiding from.

Omg thats not being confident thats being SCARED! arthas at least wasnt scared he just goes true murdering people .. not hiding ..

Illidan nor Arthas are good, both are evil, both want diffrent desires, both were ONCE good. Both got curropt, end of story.

So what? ..

 

[l33t5up4h4x0r]

Epic item = Frostmourne...now dat pawns! hahaha i want that in wow!

Frostmourne:
300 dps
50% lifesteal
+ Imbalanced stat bonuses
Killing a unit turns it your undead minion
On Cast: Uber Death and Decay

 

[HappyTauren]

looooooooooooooool youre requesting muuuuuuchie

and if it was one-handed sword with 0.8 cooldown that could pwn even better

 

[l33t5up4h4x0r]

hahaha realistically speaking, they did make the twin blades of azzinoth and the staff of medivh...im guessing it is a possiblity that they make frostmourne....

 

[Eggy]

Maybe in the next expansion OR next BIG instance they implant? :O

 

[Shadowz123]

Guys guys, calm down lol...

They wont be implementing Arthas for a long while, give or take, 3 expansions down the track when they decide to add Northrend. Arthas would be no Instance boss, be a full scale World boss, by them probably lvl 90 cap limit, so 40 lvl 90's would not beat arthas, you need the best gear, best weapons for every player, plus a strategy, Illidan is toughest boss in the BC expansion, Blizz are making it same as Naxx, took ages for people to defeat Kel'Thuzad, so Illidan will be so much more tougher.


10,000 years in a prison cell, chained...your mental stength would gain, Revenge! 1 word, he wanted to get revenge...Illidan is full of tricks, i doubt noone will defeat Illidan, be like C'Thun, totally Crazy boss, untill Blizz nerfed him ...

The weapons,yes i believe they did, Frostmourne, i doubt it...in WC3, it controls ur mind from the lich king, wouldent that have an effect on you at all? if not then its going off course from the storyline.


Also, Arthas + Lich King = Immortallity, so i dont think arthas, when implemented, would die any time soon...maybe a world event of a scourge invasion perhaps?

 

[The_wand_mirror]

You forget one things to add when you wear frostmourne your soul will be drained.. so it has also its bad side .. and they will never implant it in WoW because frostmourne is unique or they REALY have gone to far with messing up the story..

 

[Shadowz123]

Yea, what i said before lol

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Yea, what i said before lol

Omg you faggot you posted almost on the same time as me so leave it be

 

[Shadowz123]

hahahahaha, mine was more descriptive and has more information which is probably true in most cases, read it, and find out....(P.S, i replied to ur post in God RPG)

 

[Eggy]

I just wish Illidan won the fight against Arthas, would've made my life.

 

[Kimbo]

Eggy, that post is kind pointless and i edited my post. ill pm you instead of what i was talking about

 

[Deathbringer]

I don't think when they made that cinematic fight they expected people to take it so seriously.. I think it was just there to be.. I don't know, a cinematic? Thats like saying Thrall only beat Mannoroth because his hammer got lucky, it doesn't really matter does it? Mannoroth died.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Thrall didnt defeat mannoroth .. pwned ..

 

[brad.dude03]

I don't think when they made that cinematic fight they expected people to take it so seriously.. I think it was just there to be.. I don't know, a cinematic? Thats like saying Thrall only beat Mannoroth because his hammer got lucky, it doesn't really matter does it? Mannoroth died.

I must disagree. Warcraft 3 has a very large and excellent lore, and everything that happens in the games, and in the cinematics is treated as canon. Arthas really did defeat Illidan, because the cut scene showed us this. It would be foolish to think otherwise, because its like playing the game but not following the story at all. What's the point of having a story if the players do not wish to believe in it? They wouldn't make a cinematic with a major event, such as Illidan's defeat, if it was not going to be treated seriously. What the hell is the point of making a story cinematic if it's not part of the story? It makes absolutely no sense. That's like looking at the cinematic at the beginning of WoW, disregarding it, and then when you play the game your coneception is that "oh the Alliance and Horde aren't at war again. They just need to settle some issues, this never actually really happens". Wrong.

 

[Deathbringer]

Yea my post had some bugs in it, completely off on the thrall killed mannoroth thing >< it was early in the morning when I wrote that, I meant Grom with Thrall's hammer (I'm a lore nerd, I'll feel bad all night for writing that now ><)

The cinematics are there to tell a story yes but, people take some of them wayyyy too seriously, the Arthas vs Illidan is one of them, Illidan gets dangerously wounded and slowly goes insane from the defeat, theres nothing else really to see there, I don't think it matters that the lich king was nearby (his throne was leaking energy anyway) as the reason Arthas won.

 

[Kimbo]

umm...deathbriger, Grom didnt use thrall's hammer...
"A mighty blow from Thrall was shrugged aside by the massive demon, whose counterattack left the young Warchief stunned and unconscious. Driven by sheer force of will, desperation, and desire to end his suffering, Grom Hellscream made his last charge. His axe struck home and the resulting destruction of the demon lord caused a massive explosion."

 

[Durgon]

Grom was indeed a true hero and he made the ultimate sacrifice, and what does he get for it? A monument with alot of Demons patrolling the area that it is in.

 

[The_wand_mirror]

Grom was indeed a true hero and he made the ultimate sacrifice, and what does he get for it? A monument with alot of Demons patrolling the area that it is in.

He gets his deserved rest xD

 

[l33t5up4h4x0r]

Maybe we can see an Illidan monument soon after he dies, hahaha and there is written the world could have been saved if his brother trusted him enough to know he would use the eye artifact to destroy the lich king...not be world conqueror generic villain number #82.

 

[brad.dude03]

Maybe we can see an Illidan monument soon after he dies.

Haha, QFT.

 

[Tharisfal]

I haven't read the posts on page 2 because I'm a lazy faggot so I don't know if these points were made before:

1. In the ROC night elf campaign Illidan and Arthas fight and both come to the conclusion that they are equally matched.

2. Illidan is a mage. Half of his power comes from his magic. While Arthas is a swordsman, unexpirienced in soccery. Illidan didn't use magic in the fight with Arthas because he underestimated Arthas and wanted to humlitate him.

3. The argument about the Lich King not helping Arthas at all is a little far fetched IMHO. The Lich King is facing the biggest threath ever and he is not going to help Arthas because he is just a spirit in a armour despite the fact that this article clearly shows the power of the Lich King:

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/1p11/roadtodamnation2.html

"I have no love for you or your people. On the contrary, I intend to scour humanity from this planet, and make no mistake: I have the power to do it."

"I can read your thoughts as easily as you might read a book. Nor can you hope to defeat me. Your puny mind is incapable of handling the energies I manipulate on a whim."

"A building was being pulled up out of the soil. While the robed figures redoubled their efforts, the vast pyramid continued its impossible emergence. Chunks of dirt and ice flew outward with explosive force. Soon the entire structure had broken free of the earth's embrace. Slowly but surely, Naxxramas rose into the air."

Yes the earthquake did weaken the Lich King but not greatly enough to drain all his power to help Arthas. Because that would mean that the Lich King isn't all big and powerful as the chapter above describes. Yet make no mistake I'm not claiming that I've demolished that argument. I have merely offered a counter argument.

 

[HappyTauren]

illidan was't mage though... he was more of a rogue (yea really) cause he got evasion, agility as prim attribute... about other magics, they come from his demonic side, it's isn't HIS magic, it is magic of demon. after, although agilty is still his prim attribute, and everything is changed but model, he has became mage.. how? this was looked from wc3 perspective, not from lore

 

[The_wand_mirror]

lol wtf since when illidan became a mage ... he mage carrying twin-blades and being blind .. yes .. he more reminds me of a rogeu/assasin class

 

[brad.dude03]

AS well, there was no "earthquake" that weakened the Lich King. Illidan dried to kill the Lich King with the Eye of Sargeras and failed, but managed to crack open the ice block in which the Lich King resided. He was forced to go to Northrend himself to finish the job. Arthas became alerted to his masters weakness (obviously because he was now weaker too) and was also forced to go to Northrend to get there before Illidan does. You know the rest of the story.

 

[Tharisfal]

Okay I was speaking lore wise but if you want to go stat wise:

Illidan has 3 magical abilities and 1 rogue like ability. In the NE RoC campaign
he could of used all 3 of these before devouring the skull of gul'dan thus these magic do not come from his "demon side". He is also blind as The_wand_mirror said thus it mean that he either hears everything instead or can just "sense" things.

Okay earthquake may not be the best term but the cinematic where malfurion tries to comunicate with the spirits does show Northrend expiriencing what could be described as an earthquake.

Brad brings a good point though.

But I have a question: If Arthas was getting weaker does that mean that they are simply "bound", does it have anything to do with Frostmourne or is the Lich King constantly "supplying" Arthas with power?

 

[The_wand_mirror]

I think illidan just has magical abilties because hes not a mage,i mean a paladin has also magic the tauren chieftain has also magic.. every hero has a magic ability... magic wouldnt be that hard to learn in the world of warcraft otherwise not anyone could have magic abilities..right?

And well arthas and the lich king are connected true froustmourne i think .. when arthas picked up frostmourne (frostmourne is forged by the lich king remember?) he also made connection with the lich king because frostmourne is a magical runeblade sucking out your soul and also (i think it does) connecting him to the lich king... so..

I think this is it..