Buff-Less Damage/Armor Modifiers?

[Jaina Proudless]

Hello, I have in my map several frequently used thingies which at the moment use buffs but would look much better without the said buffs. Here is what I am talking about.

Armor Penetration

When some units hit others they "penetrate their armor" and give them -1 or -2 armor modifier for 4 seconds. For this I used the orb of corruption ability so it's a very simple setup. But this uses a buff - when the unit is under the effect of the armor penetration a buff can be visible in the buff list. I don't know what I could use to achieve a similar effect but without the buff showing up.

Is there any ability or trigger I could use to temporarily reduce the armor of a unit by a flat amount without giving the unit a buff in the process?

Damage Reduction

Whenever a melee unit attacks a ranged unit (and in this case an "attacked" event is actually preferable to "damaged" event) the damage of the ranged unit is decreased. At the moment I am using a trigger to add an fire orb based ability with a negative attack bonus (-20) to the unit and then remove that ability after 2 seconds. This affect is nice and has no buff but it is flat damage. I want to instead alter the percentage damage so instead of -20 damage the unit gets -50% damage. I thought of using an ability based of trueshot aura but it has a buff that shows up in the unit's buff list under its attack and defense stats.

Is there any ability or trigger I could use to temporarily reduce the unit's attack damage by a percentage without giving the unit a buff in the process?

 

[Fruit Forest]

Whenever a melee unit attacks a ranged unit

The first one isn't a problem I'll make a template for you, but if you want to use triggering damage reduction from auto attack then you had to use triggerring abilities (for example ShockWave now is casting by dummy units, not the caster itself) because there is no trigger to detect auto attack damage, you can only detect all damage caused by abilities and attacks.

 

[Athur12A2]

Armor reduction without buff: this is use by Forged Spirit in DotA. I guess his method was using the item ability with many levels and negative value. Add it to the damaged target and remove it after. You can use Bonus Mod by EarthFury to modify the stat, save its value and give back later.

Damage reduction: The second one is quite hard since its a percentage. My only idea is using Damage Engine by Bribe and reduce the damage taken.

 

[Fruit Forest]

Damage reduction: The second one is quite hard since its a percentage. My only idea is using Damage Engine by Bribe and reduce the damage taken.

The problem is does this system you metnioned detects auto attack damage?

 

[Athur12A2]

The problem is does this system you metnioned detects auto attack damage?

It detects EVERY damage triggered when the unit takes damage. I dont get what you meant by auto attack. If it is autocast spells then buff-placer will helps and it is even more accurate.

 

[Fruit Forest]

It detects EVERY damage triggered when the unit takes damage. I dont get what you meant by auto attack. If it is autocast spells then buff-placer will helps and it is even more accurate.

THis guy need to reduce damage caused by only normal attacks blows not abilities. If it's true, then he had to use dummy units in all damaging abilities.

 

[Fruit Forest]

Armor Penetration

When some units hit others they "penetrate their armor" and give them -1 or -2 armor modifier for 4 seconds. For this I used the orb of corruption ability so it's a very simple setup. But this uses a buff - when the unit is under the effect of the armor penetration a buff can be visible in the buff list. I don't know what I could use to achieve a similar effect but without the buff showing up.

Here is your template for triggering Orb of Corruption. I added an option to change Timer for armor reduction. You can brake armor up to 35 charges.
P.S. I can create damage reduction system for you, but you have to transform all your abilities into triggerring ones and use dummy unit to damage enemies instead of the caster itself. (of course if you want to reduce damage caused by attack blows, if you want to reduce all damage caused by attacks and abilities, then it acutally much easier)

 

[Jaina Proudless]

The first one isn't a problem I'll make a template for you, but if you want to use triggering damage reduction from auto attack then you had to use triggerring abilities (for example ShockWave now is casting by dummy units, not the caster itself) because there is no trigger to detect auto attack damage, you can only detect all damage caused by abilities and attacks.

On your map the buff still shows up sometimes. Every 10th or so hit you can see it briefly. It triggers my OCD.
It's an interesting idea to make the armor reduction stack up. I didn't think of that but sounds a bit overpowered... if it could cap perhaps at the targets maximum armor that would be interesting.

Armor reduction without buff: this is use by Forged Spirit in DotA. I guess his method was using the item ability with many levels and negative value. Add it to the damaged target and remove it after. You can use Bonus Mod by EarthFury to modify the stat, save its value and give back later.

Damage reduction: The second one is quite hard since its a percentage. My only idea is using Damage Engine by Bribe and reduce the damage taken.

That's a good idea. Unit is damaged -> add negative armor item based ability.
That's essentially what fruit forest does in his template map except he uses a periodic timer instead as an event. Using an on damage event would completely eliminate the buff from showing up as it does sometimes in the template.

Only crossbow/rifle/axe wielding units have armor penetration so it shouldn't be too difficult to fix some of their abilities with dummy units where necessary.

I am looking at "critical strike" type of abilities right now. I could add for example a bash based ability to the unit and set the damage multiplier to negative. It seems to work however it does show the red number which is interesting... is that number a good feature showing you that the unit is attacking poorly? But it interferes with critical strikes so I wondering if there's another spell that acts in a similar fashion but doesn't have this issue.

 

[Fruit Forest]

On your map the buff still shows up sometimes. Every 10th or so hit you can see it briefly. It triggers my OCD.
It's an interesting idea to make the armor reduction stack up. I didn't think of that but sounds a bit overpowered... if it could cap perhaps at the targets maximum armor that would be interesting.

YOu can recap it, just find custom ability which I used to reduce armor and set value you want.

 

[Jaina Proudless]

YOu can recap it, just find custom ability which I used to reduce armor and set value you want.

I meant the cap would be dependent on the attacked unit. E.g. attacked unit has 10 armor maximum armor reduction is 10. If his armor is raised by research to 12 then the cap would be 12.

Also I am think about attack types. Could you turn off attack 1 and turn on attack 2 for a unit when it is attacked by a melee unit as a way of reducing attack damage?

 

[Fruit Forest]

Also I am think about attack types. Could you turn off attack 1 and turn on attack 2 for a unit when it is attacked by a melee unit as a way of reducing attack damage?

I don't know how to turn between attacks.

 

[Athur12A2]

I am looking at "critical strike" type of abilities right now. I could add for example a bash based ability to the unit and set the damage multiplier to negative. It seems to work however it does show the red number which is interesting... is that number a good feature showing you that the unit is attacking poorly? But it interferes with critical strikes so I wondering if there's another spell that acts in a similar fashion but doesn't have this issue.

If you really go along with that demo, then I have nothing to say about Damage Engine anymore. I guess the armor reduction is (basically) solved. Critical strike is a solution, more or less... I'm giving you ideas only, since the way you detect physical damage is not of my concern.

Damage Reduction: Use demolish ability, set all multiplier value to 0.5 and add Target Allowed, then create a spell book and add Demolish. When the game begins, disable that spell book for all players. When you want to reduce damage, give the spell book to the (damaged unit), after a while, remove it, just like how item armor bonus is done. (actually it can work as a decent system)

 

[Jaina Proudless]

If you really go along with that demo, then I have nothing to say about Damage Engine anymore. I guess the armor reduction is (basically) solved. Critical strike is a solution, more or less... I'm giving you ideas only, since the way you detect physical damage is not of my concern.

Damage Reduction: Use demolish ability, set all multiplier value to 0.5 and add Target Allowed, then create a spell book and add Demolish. When the game begins, disable that spell book for all players. When you want to reduce damage, give the spell book to the (damaged unit), after a while, remove it, just like how item armor bonus is done. (actually it can work as a decent system)

Nice. Demolish is basically what I was looking for it - it doesn't have those red numbers and I tested it and it works like a charm. It will a lot cleaner on the UI that way.

This system is to try and recreate to an extent the melee-ranged classes on units like seen in RTS games like dawn of war, battle realms, war of the ring, warlords battlcry 3 - ranged units can't really shoot other things and perform poorly when engaged in melee (unless they are some sort of specialist elite units).

 

[Pyrogasm]

Could you turn off attack 1 and turn on attack 2 for a unit when it is attacked by a melee unit as a way of reducing attack damage?

Demolish seems like a better option for you, but you can switch attack types by using orb abilities like you did with Orb of Fire. Set the orb ability to use Attack 2 and any unit you give it to will use its Attack 2.