Brainstorming a multi resource section

[Ralle]

Hey guys
I would like to brainstorm a resource section for SC2.

Based on my experience with the wc3 resource sections I have found out a few things:
- having mulitple very restricted sections (by restricted I mean that for example in models, you can only upload one model, no attachments or anything, also uploading extra screenshots is not possible either without using thirdparty image hosting or linking to an attachment somewhere else). It is also bad for me because pushing out a new section means to copy-paste a lot of code because the wc3 sections are 80% equal.

Therefore I would like to propose a new smarter (almost intelligent) system.

There will be categories:
- maps
- icons
- models
- skins
- tools
- spells
- whatever

The categories are simply for categorizing different stuff.

In any section people can upload multiple files (s2ma, s2icon?, s2skin?, '.exe', '.zip' (the last two are tools)) and the files will be stored in a folder on the server and zipped if users wish to download the files.
Now the smart thing will be that if you upload any known resource, it will be parsed (like the old resource section for wc3 does it) and a preview will be shown, if there are multiple icons, multiple previews will be shown along with previews of skins and what not.

This gives us a more dynamic and less restricted resource section and I think it will be much easier to roll out in a matter of weeks.

That is the easy stuff. Now comes the moderation of said resource sections. Is there anything we can do better now that we start from scratch, building a new resource section?

 

[Direfury]

If you want to change things, have specific resource moderators, preferably ones who'd be on at the same time. For example...

Racial moderators (Terran/Zerg\Protoss/Other)
Class moderators (Structures/Doodads\Units)

Having all these extra people on staff would increase the rate in which models are rejected or approved, and it lets the original resource mods focus on the WC3 resources.

 

[Darkness-4ever]

Will there be a mods section, or does that fall into Map section? Also spells just... feel wrong here... I guess I can just chalk that up to me feeling the need to separate science fiction and medieval fantasy.

 

[Karawasa]

Glad to finally see some progress on this!

 

[tagg1080]

Maps + Mods => /roll (100-100)
Models, Icons, Skins, Textures, etc... are always nice to have.
User made Tools can be useful.
There needs to be a section for Trigers and Galaxy code snippets and the such, somewhat like the base we have for JASS.

So:

Maps
Mods
Models
Icons
Skins
Tools
Galaxy + Beyond


Just my suggestion.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Could you please add in sound resources?

 

[busterkomo]

The idea has been brought up several times and the same conclusion was made each time. If I remember correctly, the points brought were the unmeasurable usefulness of sounds, and copyright issues.

I would suggest against a Starcraft 2 'Spells' section. I think 'Abilities' would be a more fitting name.

 

[tagg1080]

I would suggest against a Starcraft 2 'Spells' section. I think 'Abilities' would be a more fitting name.

Even abilities would be somewhat vague, I think a general triggering/galaxy section would be best.

But idk.

 

[kewlthis]

I would like if the frontpage or something was promoting good projects/interesting news and stuff like that, like in mapsters. In wc3 the map development section was good. There was a lot more action too, so it could be good way to get people motivated.

Also I always loved the contests, alltought Im not sure if the judging has been fair (people vote like retards). So contests should be fun.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Abilities
(aka Spells that name doesn't fit). We're talking about a resources section right? For trigger help ofc there should be no separate abilities sub from the trigger forum but for resources, it would be called Abilities.

Requests - let's see how newbs will start - 'I need a missile, a rifle, a rocket launcher, a potion' when in fact no one has made any custom models haha /irony

 

[Ribenamania]

meh~ Abilities is a no-no.. I still think that 'Spell' is the best word to fit in it. Yeah can't wait for the resource section to be up. =D

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

and copyright issues.

If it's a sound resource, the assumption is that your uploading the resource with the intention of letting others use it. As Sc2 won't let you use copyrighted material, the importance of using user made music/sound clips will become more important.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The problem with mods is that inorder to be used in multiplayer they must come from a published source, same with maps. Art resources should also already be contained inside a published mod for people to use.

Thus art resources should have a discriptor of the published mod and what servers it is usable on.
Maps and mods should have a list of published servers that they are on.

This would allow people to more easilly find the resources for use in multiplayer and also prevent people wasting space with duplicate uploads of art content in various mods.

Fortunatly moderation could largly reflect blizzard's moderation in that maps and mods that get removed from battlenet service (deemed unplayable) should probably get removed from here (unless a different removal criteria is enforced). This will mean however there is a lot of junk resources so moderators should infact review good resources and emphisise them instead of getting rid of bad ones to leave the good ones.

Logically stuff which violates major site rules like sex or nazi stuff can be removed immediatly.

If it's a sound resource, the assumption is that your uploading the resource with the intention of letting others use it. As Sc2 won't let you use copyrighted material, the importance of using user made music/sound clips will become more important.

That is not entirly true. If you read blizzard's mapping contest rules they make it clear that it is perfectly ok to use music from any Blizzard product. This means music from WoW, WC1-2-3, D1-2-3 and SC1 are all allowed. Although this is certainly the case for entries made for the compitition, I am not sure about generic maps made for use on battlenet straightoff.

 

[mrzwach]

Icons and skins for SC2 are .dds files fyi.

Also, we should probably have more standards on quality control than Blizzard. Blizzard won't be deleting mods that contain horribly made models, they would only delete something if it violated their rules.

 

[tagg1080]

Icons and skins for SC2 are .dds files fyi.

Also, we should probably have more standards on quality control than Blizzard. Blizzard won't be deleting mods that contain horribly made models, they would only delete something if it violated their rules.

UTM mod anyone?

 

[Dr Super Good]

The fact is though that the mods must always be available on battlenet to use. Thus every mod published here will probably already be published on battlenet.

 

[lightning brigade]

Let's have a checkbox, that tells if it's on Bnet or not. This will help the us know if the creator wanted the map to be tested by someone else. I think the map resource section should be a lot for feedback on the map, as opposed to uploading it. That way, you can get easy feedback on your map, as there is currently No Easy Way To Get Feedback Since They're All Used Through Bnet. If we gave feedback, that would allow us to differentiate ourselves with an organized system.

 

[shamanyouranus]

Um....what's the point of publishing mods and maps here if they're only playable if they're published on Battle.Net? There would really be no use in having a map available for download here on the Hive other than for people to test or look at. As far as I know, you can only play maps on Battle.Net, and logically the author of the map would be publishing it there. So...could someone explain this to me? Why do we want or need maps on here other than to compete with other sites?

 

[mrzwach]

Feedback, reviews, ratings, etc. Would make it easier to find good maps, rather than sorting through dozens of bad maps I guess.

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Um....what's the point of publishing mods and maps here if they're only playable if they're published on Battle.Net? There would really be no use in having a map available for download here on the Hive other than for people to test or look at. As far as I know, you can only play maps on Battle.Net, and logically the author of the map would be publishing it there. So...could someone explain this to me? Why do we want or need maps on here other than to compete with other sites?

Maybe for single-player/offline maps - of course only released by the uploader, not some hosted games, that wouldnt be legal. A good example of a cool map offline is Hex'd.

 

[tagg1080]

Say I release a map, and yay for me.

How am I supposed to tell you guys about it?

Mods and Maps don't NEED to be published, you can hand out the map for people to test on their own if you want.

Just saying.


We need somewhere to advertise and get feedback.

 

[lobster]

If you look at sc2mapster, they have all the resources in one section, and have the ability to filter content by category.

While you obviously shouldn't copy use the exact system, you should have the ability to view all resources at once.

I'm thinking, approved, pending, rejected in one search filter, the resource type (models, mods, etc), Updated since last visit. a search function, a username search function(Including tags). The filters should be checkboxes, so you can view multible filter types at once. This could be especially useful if a member posts a model and an icon for the model, but not in a pack. You should also add a similar model function if possible, which gives off similar tags( excluding tags which would include a section that is too large, such as zerg, terran, protoss, starcraft, filter names, etc)

You should also have options similar to the model/icon submission system on this site where you can filter by race. (If a map has the majority of players as one race, it would probably be considered that race) Filters would, additionally, include genres and item type (Hero,building, rpg, fps, treasure chest, etc) If blizzard releases open source models, or a user submits enough good submissions, there should be a filter for him. (This could also be a basis for a reward/reconition system.

I particularly liked how on this site, you had multible ways to view searches. I suggest you make the icon view the default, but have the thumbnails be slightly larger to accomodate a label at the bottom, where basic information on the model (name, creator, etc) are mentioned. The items per page feature should stay as well, as people have various opinions to what it should be at. I would increase the default to 40 personally.

If a user wishes to submit a resource, there should be a link on bar with the links to the news, chat, pastebin, etc. The link should also be put in other places.

Thats basically my suggestion on how the resource system should be run.
Looking forward to seeing what you go with

Edit: looking at the question about maps, I agree there should be a feedback/advertising/review section.

We should however, host 1 player maps, libraries, and "engines"(Templates for things like rpgs, fps)

 

[Weep]

Thus art resources should have a discriptor of the published mod and what servers it is usable on.
Maps and mods should have a list of published servers that they are on.

It's probably too much to ask, but here's a random thought:

THW could acquire copies of SC2 for every server region and act as a service to publish approved mods. Granted, this is probably unfeasible: it would create a lot of work for administrators and would necessarily impose a delay between users updating their submissions and the changes being published for public use, but it would centralize and normalize the availability of mods and reduce the need for the site to track publishing status.

I'd also advocate that the resources included in mods (the mods' "source") should also be available separately if users want to incorporate them directly into their map.

 

[Dark.Revenant]

Proposed Moderation System:

All non-map resources start off with no status (no "Pending" spam on every other model). Thenceforth, the users may:

1. Rate resources like they do now, but with a weighted system; users with more reputation will have ratings weigh more (use a logarithmic scale; 0 reputation would count as 1, X reputation would count as 2, 5X reputation would count as 3, etc). This way, spammed accounts and troll users won't be able to skew the ratings as badly. Optionally, also prevent users with less than 2 or 3 posts from giving ratings.

2. A resource with a certain total amount/weight of reviews will automatically be either Denied or Approved; Denied resources would be remove from the listing while Approved resources would be given some extra rights such as a random Map of the Day or whatever.

3. Maps, unlike other resources, do not need to be uploaded. However, maps should start out as "pending" so that the person hosting the map project can be verified to be the actual mapmaker or authorized by the mapmaker. If the users know that the author is a fake, the map can be reported and a moderator can use his discretion to delete the map. The report button for maps would be more visible than other resources. Otherwise, after a certain amount of time, the map would be automatically taken off of "pending" unless a moderator does it first. Approval may not happen to a Pending map, but Denial can.

4. Resource Moderators may instantly approve or deny resources and take maps out of pending. Perhaps, if you like, a Map Reviewer group would have higher rating weights, or have their review featured on the front page of the resource's page. Otherwise, Resource Moderators should not be tasked with giving reviews to maps; there are simply too many to do it like that.

Comments?

 

[Karawasa]

I don't think much time should be spent on the map section compared to the other sections. A lot of people won't upload because they can't lock it. Other resources make perfect sense though.

 

[Statharas]

Look. I found out lots of stuff. And i am ready to give you a good structure Ralle.

First of all, we do need Maps, Skins, Icons, Mods and w/e. Mods replace packs.

Maps will contain maps that aren't on the battle.net. Map mods will have to search Bnet servers for the maps. If they're there, their map page becomes sorta an Advertisement page. If it's not on any server, a download will be provided.

Skins and Icons will be more like the ones we know.

Mods will be like maps. It should require less mods moderating that part of the site.

And ofc tools. Tools will be like the current style.

And last but not least. We need A LIBRARY LIST. Library. As in spells, tools, etc. Everything in Galaxy.

 

[Karawasa]

Everything in Jass.

Galaxy!

 

[Statharas]

wat. I never said that! Screenshot! OR LIES!

 

[Pyritie]

When I was moderating resources I really liked the whole "Rejected (until update)" and "Rejected" statuses. Made it a lot easier to moderate.

Pending - nobody's moderated it yet
Rejected until updated - someone moderated it but it's not approvable. If they don't fix it then it stays rejected
Rejected - for things that break the rules, etc.

Also if we're going with the 1-5 rating system again I'd suggest different colors and words than what we currently have. I believe we discussed this a while ago but then it was kinda forgotten about.

 

[Ribenamania]

Be sure to have notifications to the uploaded of resource when moderation is done. I never knew my resource are approved or rejected always :S

 

[lobster]

The 10 Scale is used a lot, imo better than 5 for rating.

I don't. People using a 10 scale rating seem on a different scale... If its good its 8,9 or 10. If its not good, it tends to be below 4.
Rarely do you see a 5,6, or 7.
Even in ratings where all the numbers are commonly used, The scale seems mean different things. A average map for one person could be a 7, while a average map to another would be a 5.

However, it could work if we put in a standard to say what a good map is, and what an average map is. For example:
10irectors cut
9: excellent
8: great
7:good
6assable
5:meh
4:bad
3:Terrible
2: No effort at all
1: Spam/no resource/Troll

If a resource is rejected, it shouldn't effect the rating (unless its spam/not a resource/troll, or has no chance to be accepted upon resubmission), but it should have a rejected note.

On another subject, If a resource is moderated(Approved, rejected) The user should get a pm noting this if possible. If it is rejected, the pm should say if it can be resubmitted.

 

[Cr34p]

for tools maybe also allow ".jar" since some may use Java

 

[The World Is Flat]

For ratings, instead of a numerical value, we could simply ask...

What do you think of the map?

* Directors cut all the way!

* This map is Awesome!

* This map is very well done

* Good map!

* Its alright.

* This map could have been better.

* This was very poorly done.

* This map shows little effort

* this is a HORRIBLE MAP

*Breaks site rules, is a trolling map, Doesent exsist.


instead of a numerical value, we simply give text options so people can better rate dependant on how they would describe theri feelings on the map, obviously not my words as listed above, but it would help mitigate some ratings problems.

Otherwise i agree totally with dark.revenant.

 

[Nuclear]

And when is this coming?

 

[lightning brigade]

And when is this coming?

Beta's out, can't be too much longer

 

[Rui]

I am unpinning this thread for now, but you may continue to contribute with suggestions if you want.
~Thread unpinned

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Any way we could get mp3 and MIDI (assuming sc2 supports MIDI, idk) supported file formats? I mean you can attach most other usable forms of media in it atm (mods, maps, models, images, etc. etc.). Sc2 rules already prevent you from using commercial audio in your map anyways