Between Two Shadows V2.3

[Moderator]

9 Dec 2014
StoPCampinGn00b: Map is fully functioning, follows the map submission rules and is recommended for players who enjoy simple single unit control maps. No rating given. Leave it to the user ratings.

 

[Rex.]

Ok, I appreatiate your effort to create this game. However to get this approve, you have modify your description a-bit.
Based on the rules:- Your description must have

a)Map title,
b)author name,
c)features list,
d)short gameplay explanation,
e)a credits list,
f)screenshots,
g)a changelog
h) is your map Protected or not?

If you are still confused, pls used this program http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/tools-560/map-description-generator-1-2-a-224558/

My suggestions:-
1) Fix your descriptions
2) Your quest log should have essential game details such as details about your hero, the background of the story
3) When I must say, your gameplay is quite short! Try to make it more interesting!
4) When I was going near the bridge, there are too many villagers run away! I got cramped there! Try to reduce the number of villagers running away from the zombies.
5) One of your quest description is unproper like it is intercepting. Try to fix it.

Ovarall your map is not bad, just need a few improvements that's all! Some people said, "The game doesn't have to be unique, it must be fun and entertaing!"

That's all, I think. Good Luck!


StoPCampinGn00b: Double post removed, added to this post below:


And also refer to this http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/rules-information-710/map-submission-rules-228244/

 

[HelsingN]

I fixed what you said and more. As far as the length of the map is concerned though, it already takes a good 20-30 minutes assuming you win on your first attempt.

 

[Rex.]

I still need to see your screenshot. No screencshot equals to rejection .

 

[HelsingN]

done

 

[Rex.]

Good just wait for SCN to see it.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Good just wait for SCN to see it.

What a lovely comment this is XD


BTW there are 10 more maps before this one that I must assess in order in, so you may have to wait for a few days.

 

[JCarrill0]

I will review it for ya SCN, Soon(tm)!

PS - I love the hero model btw with the cape!

 

[LordDz]

When I killed a villager, he turned into undead. Does that mean they're all undead in disguise and should all be purged?

 

[JCarrill0]

When I killed a villager, he turned into undead. Does that mean they're all undead in disguise and should all be purged?

WHAT?! How could you even consider that? There must be another way! - Uther!

EDIT: SO I started playing... I was somewhat disappointed he is not a hero class (you can make him a hero and cap the level at 1 BTW), but no heal ability? aww man
I need to brush up on my skills a bit I died within 5 mins of playing lol (I never got any gold when killing the Zombies)

 

[HelsingN]

Lol xD you do get a heal ability later on. Until then you have to use pots/fountain/guard posts xD

About heroes, I don't know. It's scarier when you aren't a hero

@LordDz yea how would you consider that lol. Just keep them alive and the plague will subside!


EDIT: about the difficulty. I think it can be pretty overwhelming but you'll do good after a few tries

EDIT2: make sure to try with 2 players as well, it'll be even more fun but don't think it'll be easier lol

other than that you often just have to hold ground and kill tons and tons of undead until you can move forward to accomplish your objectives. It just depends on many factors such as how many villagers have died and how many zombies are active. I was playing it today and I felt overwhelmed the entire game, yet after weathering the storm I pulled through

 

[JCarrill0]

Did you get my Message I sent ya about the testmap I did for ya?

 

[HelsingN]

Yea, not sure why you want him to become a hero though

 

[LordDz]

@LordDz yea how would you consider that lol. Just keep them alive and the plague will subside!

It's just one of those things I always test in games, that and standing in fire. You'd be surprised on how many games fail to hurt the player when they're standing in fire.. (New Vegas is one of them).

Also yeah, the heal on the guard posts, it would be nice if it was increased a bit and prioritied the hero.
And... I have a vague feeling, is the terrain of this map from a template map?

 

[HelsingN]

It's just one of those things I always test in games, that and standing in fire. You'd be surprised on how many games fail to hurt the player when they're standing in fire.. (New Vegas is one of them).

Also yeah, the heal on the guard posts, it would be nice if it was increased a bit and prioritied the hero.
And... I have a vague feeling, is the terrain of this map from a template map?

This map was inspired by a terrain template but has changed quite a bit since then, and credits were given. Everything you have encountered until now is intentional. The guard posts prioritize the lowest hp unit in the vicinity, and many villagers will become undead when they die regardless of who kills them.

In this game, you're not a commander or general or anyone important for that matter. Legion guard towers have no reason to prioritize you.

A big event is occurring around you, but you're not the center of it. The undead don't particularly care about you too much either(but will start hunting you down eventually).

It's a more realistic twist on gaming, where usually the player is a god that wrecks everything like its all good and everyone supports him/her all day. In this game, the hero plays a support role but also goes to do things only he can do.

 

[JCarrill0]

Yea, not sure why you want him to become a hero though

the story is about a Hero is it not?

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

I've played the map twice and couldn't beat it. I've used greedisgood to see how the map would be if I had enough gold, it's definitely easier. The map seems bug free, but the gameplay is very monotone. Characters can buy standard items, and use standard-like abilities to defeat the undead repetitively. That's my whole time playing (besides the quests). The AI doesn't push all the way through (why not?) and returns back to base when no enemy is seen. I'm sure your aware of this, but it's simply annoying for the AI to turn back right when the zombies start coming. Even the enemy end base doesn't have much to appreciate. Sure you can creep some bosses for items that have nothing special, but overall the gameplay is lacking in execution and creativity. The terrain template you've chosen is a good choice for a map like this, I have no issue with the blizzard like terrain. It cannot exactly be approved in it's current state. 2/5. Map set to await update/needs fix.

Suggestions:
Look to other mini campaign maps very similar to yours. Some of them have mini games within them to make them more appealing. These two are both rated 3.
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/maps-564/take-me-v1-1-a-256123/?prev=r=20&status=g&page=4
http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/...743/?prev=search=survive%20custom&d=list&r=20

^
(Please also know my review layout is different than those of a month ago with the point system)

 

[HelsingN]

I can understand if you don't like it, and rate it as you wish, but the map isn't broken in any way. I've played maps considered by many to be "amazing" like the iceborn campaigns, with all the fancy abilities and interface and I hated it. When I made this map, I wanted to go back to the basic feel of wc3.

It's not supposed to be played with greedisgood, and the ai isn't supposed to rush one base when it has enough units. There's plenty of legit items that aren't bland(except the ones you buy, and ones dropped from trolls). Unless you are used to crazy items that must surely belong in naruto battle royale or something.

However, I do agree the Ai needs to be improved and I am working on that now.

 

[JCarrill0]

When I made this map, I wanted to go back to the basic feel of wc3.

As I had spoken before about making it a hero like wc3, but it seems perhaps your wanting a more Warcraft 2 feel to it then Warcraft 3. I even sent you a map about the suggested changes, but again they are suggestions, not requirements by any means. Its your map, I just review them.

I am still in the process of playing it fully before I give my full review.

 

[HelsingN]

As I had spoken before about making it a hero like wc3, but it seems perhaps your wanting a more Warcraft 2 feel to it then Warcraft 3. I even sent you a map about the suggested changes, but again they are suggestions, not requirements by any means. Its your map, I just review them.

I am still in the process of playing it fully before I give my full review.

I guess, yea. The reason I made a unit instead of a hero is because there's no leveling involved. Yea, I can make a permanent level 1 hero, but it's loading the unit interface with clutter for no reason. If what you want is the hotkey or selectable hero icon to select your "hero", that's an easy fix. Also, the word hero has absolutely nothing to do with the Wc3 unit type. A unit can still be a hero lol

I am going to make a few changes tomorrow or so(slightly more aggresive AI, few item changes, and slight difficulty nerf)

 

[JCarrill0]

I am still in the process of playing it fully before I give my full review.

I stick by this quote.

 

[HelsingN]

made fixes as requested

 

[sakura[sins]]

pretty cool but it's kinda hard >.>

I see what you meant by keeping it old school. I'm going to check out the new version now

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

"If you don't like it"

It's not rated a two because I don't like it, I (moderators) are asked to rate maps accordingly based off of how moderators in the past have rated. Basically, it's rated a two because it's similar quality in how other 2 star maps are rated during were rated (excluding some 7+ years ago).

Downloading new version.

 

[HelsingN]

"If you don't like it"

It's not rated a two because I don't like it, I (moderators) are asked to rate maps accordingly based off of how moderators in the past have rated. Basically, it's rated a two because it's similar quality in how other 2 star maps are rated during were rated (excluding some 7+ years ago).

Downloading new version.

No no I don't mind if you rate it poorly, but it wasn't broken before and still isn't. I always thought maps had to be approved on whether they worked or not. In any case I'm wrapping up one final version(assuming no bugs) tonight.

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

Okay, I'll just review the final version then.

PS. I had some grammar mistakes in my first comment. Luckily you've understood it! The approval/rejection/await update option is determined by the rule but the rating is based off of how the specific map compares to others.

 

[HelsingN]

To the people downloading: I invite you to comment here and let me know what you think about the game in its latest version

 

[Atideva]

I wanted to go back to the basic feel of wc3

you got this, thank you, nice map

 

[HelsingN]

Hello everyone, I think 1.6 is final unless someone finds any bugs or issues

Please check out the new version and see if your given rating changes

I will be making another one of these in the future. A prequel to this (the great grandfather etc) perhaps

If you do find something wrong please let me know in the comments here

 

[StoPCampinGn00b]

I've been asked to re-review this map :3

Well, it's slightly more creative as some items have some cool twists on them. The map is a basic Warcraft 3 map with minimal errors. The gameplay is still quite repetitive but not as rage inducing due to difficulty changes. I still haven't managed to win without cheats yet. Though it seems like it's a lot more possible than before.

This was a hard decision, but I've chosen to keep my 2 star user rating. All of the three star maps I've recently seen approved have a lot more creative features than this map. I do however, recommend this to people who want a very simple single unit based map with no over the top abilities for the player, and enemies, and allies.

 

[HelsingN]

Alright, that's fine

 

[funAlways]

I (as player 2) keep disconnecting after the dialog. Any explanation? (Tried twice so probably not the host's internet)

 

[HelsingN]

Hey, can we test together sometime?

I currently have no idea why that would happen.

 

[Mguard]

For some reason player two keeps getting disconnected just after the first cutscene. Can anybody help?

 

[HelsingN]

I updated the map just now. It should have fixed your issue. Please post here if it hasn't.

 

[knight26]

Hey, I just completed it. It was relatively easy once you get the hang of it, I did restart it in the beginning quest twice, until I understood what had to be done exactly.

Suggestion:
-You might want to trigger the attack on the north village after the player enters it after obtaining the sword, because if you linger up too much, it becomes too hard to handle the village. And also it seems impossible to defend it with one player.

Question:
Is there a way to play as the second hero?, I tried picking dark green it would just swap me to orange every time.

Overall:
-A nice fun map. Quick to complete, requires intermediate skills. Perhaps a harder difficulty with base control of some sort could be useful(i.e: towers and guard posts), since I had 1000+ gold left towards the final strike, maybe in harder difficulty I'd have to build standpoints at key locations(such as the graveyard that the A.I builds after you take it down).
-I'd really like to play as the other hero.
-Creative side quests and mini bosses.

Rating:
Well with everything being said, there's no reason this mini-map to not deserve a 5/5 rating. Seems decently made, proper use of everything, decent terrain. Thank you

 

[HelsingN]

Actually, I think I can solve both problems with 1 solution. Making the other hero playable. The second hero is weaker and relies on mana, which would definitely create a hardmode situation if he is by himself.

Did you defeat the sidebosses, what did you think about them? (There are like 4 of them + sidequest)

How did you feel about the secret items (if you found them) and how was the north village mini boss(since you said you couldn't defend it).

About the graveyards, the undead will try to build a graveyard in certain key locations, while humans will try to build towers in those locations. The AIs already fight for area control and will decide what to do(also taking into account gold)

 

[knight26]

Actually, I think I can solve both problems with 1 solution. Making the other hero playable. The second hero is weaker and relies on mana, which would definitely create a hardmode situation if he is by himself.

Thought as much, still I'd like to play as the other hero, and I see no problem controlling them both actually!

Did you defeat the sidebosses, what did you think about them? (There are like 4 of them + sidequest)

Yes I did, very creative as I stated. Especially the treant one, having to avoid that massive damage while trying to figure out how to quickly destroy it was fun. Quick thinking won that for me otherwise I'd had to restart from a checkpoint.
About the sidequest you surely mean the necklace and the necromancer?, it was a bit hard since I started from the south-west and moved towards the north after I lost the village there. But I completed the quest, unfortunately by that time I had already taken down the necropolis, didn't get to enjoy the benefits of killing that necromancer.

How did you feel about the secret items (if you found them) and how was the north village mini boss(since you said you couldn't defend it).

I believe I have found all the secret items, I couldn't use the scepter of course since "my brother wasn't there" *sob*
I didn't know the shop items would be laying around though. I had bought what I needed when I found them anyway, Lucky ring and hero's amulet seemed good starters until the secret items are found.

The golem you must presume?. As I said earlier, after obtaining the sword and quickly rushing to the village I had no problem dealing with that, since the footmen were there attacking it. All I had to do was mass spell him and finish with a nice holy light to heal myself a bit.
The problem was with the damn zombies, they kept resurrecting. As soon as I thought I had finished them, another wave came of 4-6 zombies and 2 ghouls, I got bored and thought it's neverending so I abandoned the village proceeded south to the bridge, explored the west and north later. I never understood why the gate is closed there though.
Oh, and "Red Baron" was a nice touch after the village had fallen

About the graveyards, the undead will try to build a graveyard in certain key locations, while humans will try to build towers in those locations. The AIs already fight for area control and will decide what to do(also taking into account gold)

I understood as much, perhaps I outdid myself because the only checkpoints they had was a graveyard near their base. The painful part was getting rid of the occasional zombies with poison attack, they kept slowing me down bah.

As I said, the only thing missing is that other hero/unit.
Edit:
I really enjoyed the gameplay, are you planning anything similar for the future?. Perhaps something lore-related. Not linear, simply chronological. And by similar I mean something blizzard like, short and creative at the same time.

 

[HelsingN]

I'm going to create a mystery campaign set 100-200 years after this one. Very blizzard like but probably among the most creative maps you've ever seen. It's already underway.

Right now I'm having issues deciding between replay-ability versus maximized epicness. In other words, a randomized mystery, or a scripted mystery.

I'm honestly pretty excited about it.


Also, 1.9 allows you to play as the older brother now.

There's going to be a prequel as well in the future, which follows the necromancer you killed. Something about collecting items(ex monster bones) to create powerful undead that raze cities. This one is just in the idea stage, though. Can't promise anything.

 

[knight26]

I'm going to create a mystery campaign set 100-200 years after this one. Very blizzard like but probably among the most creative maps you've ever seen. It's already underway.

Right now I'm having issues deciding between replay-ability versus maximized epicness. In other words, a randomized mystery, or a scripted mystery.

I'm honestly pretty excited about it.

That's wonderful to hear! Especially since the community is not what it once was.
You can take the campaign Wanderers of Sorceria for example. The story unravels the same way each time you re-play it, but once you've completed it for one time, you have bonuses. The second time you start at level 10, and you get to pick a skin. Plus you have research bonuses.
You could make it that way, that if you play the campaign there are 3 "paths" to choose from. You can go all cliche about it (i.e: Good/Bad/Neutral, Mage/Assassin/Tank).
Just an idea, so you don't need to change the main plot lines, since no matter what path you take, you end up in the final map which is the only one different from the others. Different endings depending which path you chose.
Similar to Mass Effect basically. You cut the time needed to develop a huge project, and it's re-playable plus fun!

Also, 1.9 allows you to play as the older brother now.

There's going to be a prequel as well in the future, which follows the necromancer you killed. Something about collecting items(ex monster bones) to create powerful undead that raze cities. This one is just in the idea stage, though. Can't promise anything.

Will check it out then.
EDIT:
I'm currently playing as the mage. At first it was easier honestly. Maybe I simply like casters more xD
Anyway, I'm currently fighting the secret boss, finally released him from the necklace. Now I'll fight him. Also nice idea of leaving him to control me for a while xD
This is great creativity here, congrats.

 

[HelsingN]

There will be one final version, 2.0, which hopefully won't cause new bugs to spawn. It will have a new black market shop with cool but risky items among other things. All blizzard style still.

 

[Abhuyl]

Hey there.

Seems to be quite cool, but I had a major issue right at the beggining.
Won the first fight in the bridge and advanced with 2 footmen. Reached the Skeleton Overseer at the other side of that bridge and used W to stun him.
Suddenly every footman, tower etc started to attack me and kill the friendly villagers.

Intended or bug? (Since footmen player is "Legion" and the initial villager doesn't trust them i got to second guess myself)


Also, the guy asking for the main character to be a hero.
I guess basically it's easier to pick your hero by double-tapping F1 (I found myself doing it quite a lot lol), also, you can keep track of his HP while still looking somewhere else on the map

Peace and good luck!

 

[HelsingN]

Bash is glitched in that it taunts allies to attack you too sometimes. Will be fixed in 2.0, coming out in like 30 min

 

[knight26]

I never had that glitch the first time around.
Also I loved the wraith's possession control, it was HARD to take her down. basically I had to take her to the human base and slowly frost nova her and make her chase me. She also regenerates really fast.
Bug report: With second hero(mage), the attack on north with the golem, never triggered.
Meh since I finished it with both heroes I don't know if I'll go for a third time any time soon, still, looking forward
Fun suggestion: Start a new game, start attacking humans see as they turn into undead, help in destroying the town hall.

 

[HelsingN]

Hm maybe ill increase the difficulty

 

[fantocan]

Very cool game, well detailed, and the fact it has no heroes makes it even nicer, reminds me a game I loved Life of a Captain, wich gave the feeling of the Scourge of Lordaeron not by the eyes of the Bitchprince Arthas Suckerthil, but from the simple warriors!

This has the same vibe, simple but well detailed, and the side quest is amazing, sadly I guess it only trigers after you get low life so in my first run with the warrior the necklace was useless, I just found out its use with the Crone, looking forward to the other maps!!!

 

[fantocan]

Updating my review, tryed it 2 players, the disconecting problem still stands, dg is gone after first cutscene, wich is sad, as I like this map so much wana try it with pals!

 

[HelsingN]

Could anyone help me test playing with two players?

 

[fantocan]

Sure man, and I did you a favor (hope you see it as a favor) requested it on Make me Host, now it is there to play, but I would suggest you remove the first cutscene as it seens it is what kicks DG from the game, probably the trigger that forces the players to move close to the villager!