Battledawn - The Aeon of Legend

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「Battledawn - The Aeon of Legend」

By Neversleeping / PsiComa

Gameplay
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Relive the legendary conflict between the Alliance and the Horde on a vast, highly immersive battlefield!


Over twelve years in the making, Battledawn designed with a specific vision to create an epic Warcraft experience; involving elements of AoS-type maps yet more closely linked to the base game in both aestethics and mechanics, the focus of the development has been to create an immersive, realistic setting that feels like a war; waves of forces battle it out all across the map, teaming up and generating epic random battles, sieges with catapults against towers on hills and all kinds of interesting situations (just watching the map without playing is actually highly entertaining!) The Alliance and the Horde towns has entirely different designs blending logically into the terrain, and are carefully crafted with attention to detail in order to capture the concept and feeling of the two different factions.

In addition to heroes, players can train and command regular forces to command around the battlefield, enabling micromanagement from the base game. This includes flying units (even dragons!) that for instance can be sent behind enemy lines to engage enemy strongholds. Units have less health than original Warcraft, siege weapons have more damage and ranged units generally have longer range, in order to further distinguish the proper use of each unit type.

Battledawn lets players pursue a vast variety of strategies in order to win the battle, from fighting alongside your allied troops on the main battlefield to creeping, making Zeppelin drops, catapult sieges, mini-questing for legendary weapons, etc. At the same time, players vie for three control points on the map that offers tactical advantages. Each faction has unique selection of powerful (but expensive!) Legendary Artifacts available to obtain, again with quite different uses and designs. Both factions have access to the Dominie specifically, a one-charge item that will sacrifice the user to eradicate everything on the screen (even buildings) in a gargantuan explosion.

Each faction has six heroes that excel at different roles. About half of them can be recognized from the original Warcraft setting, but tweaked, reshaped and carefully balanced in order to fit into the game. Heroes can level to 15, meaning that all skills - including ultimates - have another attainable level. In addition a 14-level requirement skill that boosts your main attribute is added.
In addition to creeping and looting the landscape, gold are automatically generated by your buildings; Town Halls crate gold, Barracks produces computer controlled forces, while Keeps do both. Farms scattered around the land also generate a limited amount of gold. So protect what you can when they are under attack!
Different play modes; Battledawn detects the number of players on each side and automatically adjusts the settings of the map to make a fair fight. In the case there are no players on a faction, random Heroes will spawn and start to run around attacking and claiming control points. Thus the map has an interesting single-player and cooperative aspect. Also, when choosing spectator, both sides will start spawning heroes to add to the entertainment value.

One of the later patches that let Warcraft III run in HD resolution combined with an in-map function that lets you zoom a bit longer out than is possible in the base game , increased the visual experience (tighter textures) and playability (overview) a lot, and really helped resurrect the game for me. Hence, I decided to go ahead and finish it.
My development group have had a lot of fun throughout the years playing and developing this map side by side. I therefore hope I can share the experience with you guys, and therefore proudly presents Battledawn - The Aeon of Legend.
Just one word of warning; the map may appear relatively complicated and overwhelming on the first play-through, so I urge you to stick around for a second or third battle to really get feeling of all the nice features the map has to offer. Enjoy!



Screenshots
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Features
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Fast paced, immersive gameplay with high variety
Singleplayer, co-op, and spectator mode
High strategy; micro or macro
Exciting new items and interesting abilities
Simply: Awesome battles

Credits
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Alpha/Beta testers and developers:
The_Fatman for ideas and extremely qualified balancing advices and help, as well as for hours of pre beta-testing!
And thanks to my other pre-beta-testers, Zorander, woodenstone, Thunderbolt_A and Gray_Wanderer.

Technical:
Heartfelt thanks to the Hive Workshop community as we whole, whos insightness and help made this endeavor possible.
Too many to remember, but I'd like to thank Apathetic for directly helping me out with some animation issues.

Models, art etc.
Rao Dao Zao
Will the Allmighty
CrazyRussian
JetFangInferno
Daelin
And others...(will expand this list later)

Changelog
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Update 12-05-2015:
• HOTFIX! the previous version introduced a bug that could let units periodic spawn from buildings that were destroyed. Also, Alliance AI spawned Dragon too seldom.

Update 17-05-2015:
• Sappers "Kaboom" kamikaze ability is replaced with "Place TNT"; a timed barrel will be placed that explodes upon death. Reduced collision size for sappers.
• AI's are better at retreating from combat to fight another day.
• Difficulty of AI is somewhat moderated for 3 and 4 player co-op games. AI's income value will now affect spawn-rate, so that it is important to limit AI's income by destroying farms and town halls (and naturally, holding control points).
• Some adjustments in gold and mana cost on items and skills
• Fixed a bug that could happen if players selected heroes absolutely simultaneously
• Fixed a bug with the interaction between Flute of Accuracy and Trueshot aura.
• Expanded and opened up the mountain terrain a bit, and added a fountain of health.
• Several other terrain improvements.
• Units bought at the north-eastern goblin lab may no longer get stuck.


Update 16-01-2015:
• Fixed issue with control points that appeared with the last patch (sorry!)
• Some terrain improvemens
• Slight cost modifications on some units and items
This version is stable and will be the last in a while.

Update 10-01-2015:
• Computer controlled heroes will now defend better and smarter than on previous version.
• Generally more gold is earned in the game, allowing for more of the cool items and larger armies. Also, makes Town Halls as important as Barracks, as originally intended.
Control points also produce more gold, making them even more important.
• Terrain improvement on various places, both in cosmetics and easier to navigate. Mountain control point now has a second entry point.
• The gateway from forest to mountain is now much easier to use with large squads.
• Warning about how to use the potent but very dangerous Dominie item and Summon Spirit of Death is now added upon aquisition
• Wind Ranger got increased movement slightly increased.
• Fixed a problem with pop-up tips (for those who use that) appearing double.

Update 21-12-2014:
• Computer controlled heroes will now sometimes Town Portal back to defend important structures, much like human opponents.
• Reduced difficulty of player vs computer battles slightly
• Fixed a setting that made Heroes in multplayer vs computer battles level up very slowly
• Fixed several minor bugs and glitches

Map Description Generator 「By Vengeancekael」

Keywords:
AoS, Strategy, team play, single player[/tr][/tr][/tr][/tr][/tr]
Contents

Battledawn - The Aeon of Legend (Map)

Reviews
08:41, 11th Oct 2014 Orcnet: Battledawn Aeon of Legend is one of those different types of AoS made with unique assets and different stage build unlike similar game types like this recently, the use of factory buildings as shops for your team...

Moderator

M

Moderator

08:41, 11th Oct 2014
Orcnet:

[img]http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/members/194715-albums6441-picture75028.png[/img]


Battledawn Aeon of Legend is one of those different types of AoS made with unique assets and different stage build unlike similar game types like this recently, the use of factory buildings as shops for your team is unique and nice for a change, However the idea of really tight mountain pass in the north-eastern part of the map is very much hard to move in especially when range or siege units can block incoming forces in both sides.

Overall the map is a must and recommended for those who plays both melee and AoS at the same time.
 

Deleted member 237964

D

Deleted member 237964

Well.... it was fun to play this map. 4/5 from me.


Just one suggestion.Could this map have a bit more custom models? I wouldn't mind to see units like "Elite footman" or Veteran grunt and other like this.It would be awesome.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
115
Thanks for your rating! :) I've heard people say it takes a few playthroughs to really shine. I guess it's because the map is a little complicated, and perhaps difficult, and doesn't follow many of the normal 'conventions' of AOS maos.

One of the design philosophies was to make it "feel like Warcraft", and that's why I didn't go overboard with new skills and units. I could add more special units to the game, but I'm just not sure if it would contribute a whole lot to the experience. I'll put it on the list, though, and see if people agree and if I get the time.
If the map gets played, I'll to totally continue developing it futher and implement new cool features. Especially I get a co-developer on board.
 
Level 2
Joined
Sep 23, 2014
Messages
19
Your ally spellcasters are Level 2, with(seemingly) no way to change that. Your own spellcasters are Level 3. Meaning you are the only source of Inner Fire/Bloodlust/Polymorph.

Not seeing a way to raise the power of NPC weapons/armour.

Orcish town halls train Peons, of course. But the majority of farm buildings, especially on the outskirts, are Pig Farms as opposed to Burrows, so they cannot take cover and provide defensive measures. Meanwhile the Alliance can call up Militia to mess with land units.

We have lumber mills, but they don't DO anything under the conditions of the scenario since there's no lumbering going on. Maybe something?

Strictly speaking, money does little for the NPC faction(s), since the units they're throwing at each other are spawned, not trained. Maybe there could be something the AI could do with it's money? I'm kinda weird and insane on this sort of thing, though.

The AI's good at going after targets of opportunity with sufficient/heavy force. This however means that holding your economy together is nigh-impossible. So much ground to hold leads to problems.

I really LIKE this map. It's almost what I'm dreaming of lately.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
115
Thank you for your comments! I'll address them in turn, but i'll start with the last one:
I really LIKE this map. It's almost what I'm dreaming of lately.
Thank you so much. I had a very specific dream/vision about the map as soon as I saw the first AoS 12 years ago. Wanted it to feel more immersive and natural.

Your ally spellcasters are Level 2, with(seemingly) no way to change that. Your own spellcasters are Level 3. Meaning you are the only source of Inner Fire/Bloodlust/Polymorph.
Not seeing a way to raise the power of NPC weapons/armour.
From a design point of view, we decided that you can only upgrade your own troops and not the computer controlled faction's troops. This is just a decision, really, and if you feel strongly for another solution we might discuss it.

Orcish town halls train Peons, of course. But the majority of farm buildings, especially on the outskirts, are Pig Farms as opposed to Burrows, so they cannot take cover and provide defensive measures. Meanwhile the Alliance can call up Militia to mess with land units.
First I'd like to point out that the two factions indeed have advantages and disadvantages. To your comment, both Horde and Alliance have the same problem of protecting their outskirt farms, with or without burrows. It is true that Alliance has Militia, but to compensate, Peons are made relatively strong compared to Peasants, so they're a little more flexible. I think there's a give and take there, where burrows in particular is more of an advantage for the horde (think of it as another kind of watch tower).

We have lumber mills, but they don't DO anything under the conditions of the scenario since there's no lumbering going on. Maybe something?
Actually, you have a certain Lumber Income in the game, and Lumber Mills provide extra. However, you're right that lumber isn't important. It's basically just used as a "special cost" for certain types of units you're not meant to spam and stuff like that. You can argue that lumber has no real effect in the game, and it can therefore be taken out. But on the other hand it doesn't really cause any harm either.

Strictly speaking, money does little for the NPC faction(s), since the units they're throwing at each other are spawned, not trained. Maybe there could be something the AI could do with it's money? I'm kinda weird and insane on this sort of thing, though.
Hehe, in that case I must be insane too, cause I thought about the same thing after implementing the "AI mode" where there are no players on the opposite side. Remember that Battledawn was originally made for having players on both sides to spend gold. At the time it wasn't intended that the computer controlled forces would use gold in any way. Now with 1-p and "co-op" modes, I'm inclined to make a system for the AI to spend gold on items and what-not. But there are other aspects of the map I'd want to improve first, so it's not a priority in any way. Alas, I have spent many years on this map now, and life doesn't let me spend more without a team.

he AI's good at going after targets of opportunity with sufficient/heavy force. This however means that holding your economy together is nigh-impossible. So much ground to hold leads to problems.
As I mentioned above, the game was carefully balanced for team-play, while the difficulty of the "full AI"-function hasn't been tested extensively. I did, however, beat the computer several times, but I have the advantage of knowing the map very well. Please let me know if the map is simply too difficult in single player mode.
Btw; there is indeed a lot of ground to cover, but remember that you don't need to bring in your hero to buy defending troops. Also, setting up ranks of archers and stuff is really effective against the computer, which isn't really thinking about how to counter it.
 
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Level 2
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Sep 23, 2014
Messages
19
My bias is odd; I've played a lot of games like Majesty or Simcity or Master Of Olympus:Zeus or Distant Worlds, where you set things up and then you let it run, and build/adjust as needs be or to grow or to complete objectives.

'Living Towns/worlds' like that, where your actions actually have an effect, and you see the place grow and thrive. Taking something like the Horn of the Forest could have Night Elves spawn and maybe even a minor base...the Graveyard could do Undead(The Horde's using Chaos Warlocks, so it's legit).

Of course, that's not happening here, nor should it, perhaps. Lord knows there's barely room for what's there.

Heh. That'd be a silly thought. Imagine a variant where you started with most of the map areas as neutral points, and you had to go around building(But not actually building) the place into the massive super-bases we see.

But now I'm very much back-seat designing.
 
Level 5
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Messages
115
I see where you're coming from. We discussed the possibility of having a base popping up around the control points, but it never went to implementation. Basically, it's because we found that the current solution has both function and proper simplicity in a competitive game. I may try to develop it as a test, though.
 
Level 5
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115
Hey, thanks. And thanks for the vote. That means alot. Especially when you have been working on a map for 12 years, trying to make an epic strategy Hollywood-moment of true Warcraft (rather than the flat, dull encounters you see in DOTA and that kind of stuff). It's sad to see the map forgotten and ignored by most (but still, highly acclaimed by the few).

Did you and your friend win against the bots? And did you also play against AI heroes?
(if you add computer players to the list when you start, Battledawn will not spawn heroes to fight for the AI. So I hope you just left it empty. I will fix this in the next version).


Valandil; what kind of terrain changes do you mean? Cosmetical, or change in the actual geography? When it comes to old-school skills, well, I'm a nostalgic and I like old-school. There are however 10 or so new abilities in the game and lots of cool items you have never seen before (give the Dominie a try!). If you give it a chance and explore a bit, I'm sure you will find something new. And many of the abilities that are "old-school" have new graphical effects and tweaked stats. For instance, try the new badass immolation spell!
 
Level 23
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Mar 9, 2012
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1,563
Have played 4 rounds so far, my opinion is rather mixed.
Playing against AI solo you are one but they have full team, which puts you at odds from the begin out.
Get rid of the teleport scroll invincibility mechanic, there is nothing more unexciting and trollish in an hero battle arena than that 'get out of the jail'-freebie mechanic. Its most annoying in this genre of map.
This game needs to force unique pick (one of each hero can be present at a time) as an trio of Beastmasters can push forever, when i was Elementalist have been overly sufficient as a killing machine, as such dont even want to think what would happen with more than one present at a time in the field at once.
Playing Elementalist was the most exciting, walking into the orc citadel through an floor mopped with the skeletal corpses of our enemies, forming an dreadly skeletal carpet with the reach of it extending even further at any second. Should have had hireable Necromancers somewhere...
The other heroes ive tested are Paladin, Archmage and the one with Tauren Chieftain model.
Playing with both the Paladin and Tauren dude was not much different than their usage in regular melee.
Archmage is underpowered and useless, anything he cant do Elementalist does miles better, its not about his mana or lack thereof, but rather spellpower and the speed at which he can(not) contribute his skills to the combat.
Constantly using Blizzard takes too much time dealing damage, and totals out at an far less amount than the Elementalist would have dealt in a matter of seconds.
Water Elemental is of very limited use as it doesnt even scale properly throughout the game, is very worthless at begin, late game its still better to haul a bunch of mercs along if you want more dps, is slower than the archmage, hampering his ability to dart around, and deals magic dmg, which doesnt work against immune creatures, all this despite costing 125mana and having an long accountable cooldown attached to it atop of all that.
Since the game ended in defeat so quickly with him cant give an accountable opinion on how worthless his mass teleport ultimate would have been.

Next i will have an question about what measure is a "screen" ? mentioned in one of the artifact's descriptions.
Once i had zoomed in couldnt zoom out to the same levels given at game's start.

Also have to state that to put Mana absorb, an long stun that has dirt cheap mana cost, rejuvenation, free reveal, and shockwave put into the very same spellbook has been so generous of you. Thanks to Mana absorb in particular have never ran short of mana whilst playing the Elementalist.

The abandoned towers never got activated but im presuming they are to be such, existing only for decoration purposes.
The additional footman/grunt that spawn at the captured control points did not participate in the war effort, prefering to idle camp where they have spawned when their comrades are falling by the dozen in the battlefield that is literally just before their eyes.

The map did not run smooth on any playthrough, had much lag, which i can presume is caused of leaks, and even freezing for several seconds on one occasion where more than 3 heroes used their spells with fancy effects at the same moment.
ManoWar mercs can cast inner fire and bloodlust on heroes and other troops, is this intended ?

Next ill try with the Skeletor hero on horde and try to find both keys this time. I suppose both key carriers are lvl9 ? Once Ghost Key dropped from the northernmost golem when playing with the Archmage, with description stating that i need to find the other key to unlock the whereabouts of an ancient weapon.
 
Level 5
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
115
Have played 4 rounds so far, my opinion is rather mixed.
Playing against AI solo you are one but they have full team, which puts you at odds from the begin out.

Well, when you play against A.I, the heroes work more like normal spawns. They spawn, grab some control points and do random things, then most of the time, get killed. So it's not actually comparable to a human opponent. But I totally understand that the map settings may presently be too difficult. On the next update I may include variable difficulty. Please not that you can put a computer player as opponent to make it easier, cause the game will be loaded as if you were playing against a human doing nothing.

Battledawn is intended for human-against-human, but making an A.I that plays exactly like a human would, is really beyond the scope of the project.

Get rid of the teleport scroll invincibility mechanic, there is nothing more unexciting and trollish in an hero battle arena than that 'get out of the jail'-freebie mechanic. Its most annoying in this genre of map.
Battledawn punishes death a bit more than other maps, and the basic idea is to jump back to altar before you're dying, then jump out to control points or whatever again. This is pretty much ingrained in our way of playing, and I'm not sure why you find this annoying.. When the opponent is forced to use TP, you have won important time. I presume you want to see your opponent bleed, but. This particular thing is believe is not going to change.

This game needs to force unique pick (one of each hero can be present at a time) as an trio of Beastmasters can push forever, when i was Elementalist have been overly sufficient as a killing machine, as such dont even want to think what would happen with more than one present at a time in the field at once.
Ok. I can implement that for A.I. Again, The game already has unique picks for player vs player.

Playing Elementalist was the most exciting, walking into the orc citadel through an floor mopped with the skeletal corpses of our enemies, forming an dreadly skeletal carpet with the reach of it extending even further at any second. Should have had hireable Necromancers somewhere...
Yeah, he's badass against many small enemies... and structures. Necromancers.. good idea, but the Skeletor hero has raise dead ability. On level 4, the number of undead gets friggin ridiculous :D Priests can area dispel them, but they pop up really fast again.

The other heroes ive tested are Paladin, Archmage and the one with Tauren Chieftain model.
Playing with both the Paladin and Tauren dude was not much different than their usage in regular melee.
Indeed, some of the heroes are near vanilla warcraft. But that was intented; i wanted to keep the original feeling of Warcraft 3 in the game. I've always liked how to Paladin works, and beyond the few tweaks (prayer or healing etc) I wanted to keep him as is. So, many are direct references to the game, but most of them are tweaked and some are quite different; same for their abilities. Some new funky abilities are about, for example Nethermancer's Spirit of Death and Beastmaster's Call of the Wild.

Archmage is underpowered and useless, anything he cant do Elementalist does miles better, its not about his mana or lack thereof, but rather spellpower and the speed at which he can(not) contribute his skills to the combat.
Constantly using Blizzard takes too much time dealing damage, and totals out at an far less amount than the Elementalist would have dealt in a matter of seconds.
Water Elemental is of very limited use as it doesnt even scale properly throughout the game, is very worthless at begin, late game its still better to haul a bunch of mercs along if you want more dps, is slower than the archmage, hampering his ability to dart around, and deals magic dmg, which doesnt work against immune creatures, all this despite costing 125mana and having an long accountable cooldown attached to it atop of all that.
Since the game ended in defeat so quickly with him cant give an accountable opinion on how worthless his mass teleport ultimate would have been.
Hmm... I would be happy to prove you wrong here. The archmage on his horse is relativey fast, and with his high intelligence bonus he gets the strongest attack damage in the game. Also, many worry that he's strong because of Mass Teleport enabling him to jump to allies practically anywhere. For the Blizzard and Water Elemental spells, these are close to the original version, which is balanced.

Next i will have an question about what measure is a "screen" ? mentioned in one of the artifact's descriptions.
Once i had zoomed in couldnt zoom out to the same levels given at game's start.
It seems you didn't read the pop-up hints... I REALLY recommend you do that once. You get this message in the beginning prompting you to write "tips!". Earlier it was the other way around, so you needed to write "notips!" to NOT receive them. I don't know which one is better.
If you press ESC, you will zoom out to Battledawn's normal zoom.
Well, a screen atleast gives you an idea. What should I say? range 2000?
Not everyone has used the editor a lot, and that number doesn't say much. Perhaps I could use "the width of 10 Taurens" :)

Also have to state that to put Mana absorb, an long stun that has dirt cheap mana cost, rejuvenation, free reveal, and shockwave put into the very same spellbook has been so generous of you. Thanks to Mana absorb in particular have never ran short of mana whilst playing the Elementalist.
One of my players say the Spellbook is bad and takes too much time to use and micro. I'm a bit on the fence about that item. But hey, thanks for the tip.

The abandoned towers never got activated but im presuming they are to be such, existing only for decoration purposes.
Well, yeah.. for the time being.

The additional footman/grunt that spawn at the captured control points did not participate in the war effort, prefering to idle camp where they have spawned when their comrades are falling by the dozen in the battlefield that is literally just before their eyes.
No, it should only be 1 of the footmen/grunts that remains to protect the control points. The others will run and fight as normal. The reason for having one staying behind is that one units shouldn't be able to lure all the protectors out and then grab the control point. It's actually a thought to this.

The map did not run smooth on any playthrough, had much lag, which i can presume is caused of leaks, and even freezing for several seconds on one occasion where more than 3 heroes used their spells with fancy effects at the same moment.
I have removed the most important leakages, but I acknowledge that there are some more leaks about. However, we haven't had ANY problems playing this over the net with friends. Are you running the game on a very old computer?

ManoWar mercs can cast inner fire and bloodlust on heroes and other troops, is this intended ?
Those units was kind of an easter egg from back in the day, and reference to the Manowar band. They will probably be removed.
And nobody uses mercs anyway. Normally it's a better idea to use forces from your own town, and have them upgraded.

Next ill try with the Skeletor hero on horde and try to find both keys this time. I suppose both key carriers are lvl9 ? Once Ghost Key dropped from the northernmost golem when playing with the Archmage, with description stating that i need to find the other key to unlock the whereabouts of an ancient weapon.
Yeah, you get both keys and talk to a dude in your base. He tells you a location (random) where the guardian exists. Then you have to go there with your army and use the key to awake the guardian. But he has divide armor, and you need to get him to half health before using the key once more. Then he's quickly going down, and you will get your new bad ass unit. I will streamline this process and make that encounter easier in future versions, I think. Nobody has time to find this unit in an actual game.


Thanks for the feedback, though. Much appreciated! Oh, how do you feel about the base concept of the map, i.e., free-flow war with no corridors or symmetrical spawns?


Also; if any of you guys ever feel like playing a real game with my and my crew, you're welcome to join oss over the LAN-simulator Tunngle.
 
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Level 5
Joined
Jan 6, 2010
Messages
115
In single player mode I fight against two AI heroes. Why are there two AI heroes?

In singleplayer mode, A.I heroes doesn't work exactly like it would for human players. They spawn a bit more like normal units. But then again, A.I is much dumber than a human player ;)
I will make a variable difficulty setting in the near future, but until then, I'd love to hear if you guys find the map to be TOO difficult and stressful.

Tip; if you choose one computer player as your opponent, the map will think you're playing against an actual player, and will spawn much less units and no heroes.
 
Level 23
Joined
Mar 9, 2012
Messages
1,563
On level 4, the number of undead gets friggin ridiculous :D
Priests can area dispel them, but they pop up really fast again.
Not at all, the cd remains long as priests will mass dispell them on the spot before they can do anything, when priests mana has finished any aoe does the trick as they have no kind of scaling. They are worthless other than distraction, you are better off becoming full-tanky and abusing the crap out of 400% health returning death pact when playing as the skeletor.
Battledawn punishes death a bit more than other maps, and the basic idea is to jump back to altar before you're dying, then jump out to control points or whatever again. This is pretty much ingrained in our way of playing, and I'm not sure why you find this annoying.. When the opponent is forced to use TP, you have won important time.
No, you have lost important time having had accomplishing nothing. Nobody wants to play an stalemate that goes on for hours long.
Implementing an limitation concerning where it can get used, or an must be above % of health would solve the last second escapes.
Perhaps I could use "the width of 10 Taurens"
Nope, but you could define it like "in an wide area that is slightly larger than the size of mainbuilding." etc.
Are you running the game on a very old computer?
No.
No, it should only be 1 of the footmen/grunts that remains to protect the control points.
Ive stated what is happening.
Normally it's a better idea to use forces from your own town, and have them upgraded.
Normally its a better idea to get your hands on any stun, snare, buff and debuff possible on the board.
But indeed mass air was fun to play.
Yeah, you get both keys and talk to a dude in your base. He tells you a location (random) where the guardian exists. Then you have to go there with your army and use the key to awake the guardian.
Yeah, ive got both keys and talked to the stormreaver hermit next to voodoo lounge. He told me an location, kept telling me another one as im on my way there, then when im next to statue have used the keys but it stated i must be next to him ?
Oh, how do you feel about the base concept of the map, i.e., free-flow war with no corridors or symmetrical spawns?
The upper mountain pass route is one long corridor...
The wave spawns are in symmetrical sequence as far i could see. I presume you meant bases, there humans have an clear advantage at defense with that narrow bridge connecting to castle.
Its not really that different than any other of this map type, outside of being more manageable to learn thanks to low hero count and their semblance to regular melee, strong hirable minions, assymetrical layout.
you're welcome to join oss over the LAN-simulator Tunngle.
sorry i dont use tunngle.
 
Level 5
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Jan 6, 2010
Messages
115
okay.

No, you have lost important time having had accomplishing nothing. Nobody wants to play an stalemate that goes on for hours long.
Implementing an limitation concerning where it can get used, or an must be above % of health would solve the last second escapes.
The game won't be longer because your opponent escapes instead of dying, as far as I can tell. A regular game takes about 30-45 minutes, which I think is okay.

Nope, but you could define it like "in an wide area that is slightly larger than the size of mainbuilding." etc.
Okay, I can change "everything on the screen" to "An area with radius of 4 main buildings".

Ive stated what is happening.
Sorry. but I didn't understand. Are you suggesting that the garrison should run out to fight, i.e., have longer than normal unit aquistion range, or being commanded to attack?

Yeah, ive got both keys and talked to the stormreaver hermit next to voodoo lounge. He told me an location, kept telling me another one as im on my way there, then when im next to statue have used the keys but it stated i must be next to him ?
Hmm.. as I remember he only mentions one location, and you find this statue thingy there.

The upper mountain pass route is one long corridor.
The wave spawns are in symmetrical sequence as far i could see. I presume you meant bases, there humans have an clear advantage at defense with that narrow bridge connecting to castle.
There's ONE mountain pass on the map, and you say that it's only corridors here? Sounds a bit like arguing, but okay. Never mind. But units do NOT spawn in a symmetrical sequence. there are random batches with random waypoints reacting to different triggers (else you would see the same battles on the same places all the time, like Dota and all other maps of the genre). And the units spawning are not identical in stats, so it is unsymmetrical from its core.

Its not really that different than any other of this map type..
Ok. The reason I made this map was to bring a more immersive feeling of being in a vast dynamical feel of battle that felt more real than just seeing repeating spawns on flat, symmetrical terrain. But if it feels just the same I guess I failed at making anything worthwhile. :sad: Well, I gave it a shot.
 
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Hmm.. as I remember he only mentions one location, and you find this statue thingy there.
He mentioned river in the north and circular isle to the west, ive gone to both places with zeppelin, both had an invincible obsidian statue, stand next to it use the keys, nothing happent. Can, fe. clicking on the questgiver npc during monologue bug this all and cause it to cycle among multiple statues ? Meanwhile we lost as alliance partying wild at the mainbase in our absence.
Sorry. but I didn't understand. Are you suggesting that the garrison should run out to fight, i.e., have longer than normal unit aquistion range, or being commanded to attack?
Past a certain amount of spawn, the rest of 'garrison' should join in the next wave of their side, in the line they are in when that wave is passing nearby to prevent unit lag, as they are massing on the spot doing nothing.
Also mere footmen dont really pose an obstacle for ninja-capping, maybe instead the garrison should be enhanced to include multiple troop types, at begin would spawn a few footman, then a few ranged, then an trio of knight/spellbreaker, with a pair of offensive casters next (and their horde equivelants), with the additional footman spawn being added as an multiplicator for the side controlling the points on their next wave in that line only, or perhaps globally.
Maybe controlling all 3 points could give an combined bonus like an item price discount, faster recharge on hiring minions from base of own side only, etc ?
There's ONE mountain pass on the map, and you say that it's only corridors here?
Ive stated that the mountain pass route is clearly a line as opposed to the other 2 main routes of attack, as you cannot freely reach the upperground and require external aide in the form of an zeppelin or teleport scroll, to assist an teammate that happened to have took that route to farm in, making it an less preferable option than the other two.
But units do NOT spawn in a symmetrical sequence.
When we got an Griffon they got an Windrider, when 3 knights spawn here wolfriders in an amount that would be equal to their combat strength spawns over there for them, here comes 3 catapults and our 3 ballista are rolling towards them. Not always necessarily in the same line, and frequently in the opposite concerning spawns on the side lines.
Either you have carefully tooled the waves to be "asymetrically symetrical" and i like it, or perhaps have been very lucky to have such balanced spawns generated totally randomly and its not this good at its default. Im not sure now :p
But if it feels just the same I guess I failed at making anything worthwhile. Well, I gave it a shot.
Well, thats just me, after a ten thousand battles anything feels the same.
I have to state whilst here is indeed room for improvement, the idea itself isnt that terrible, and most certainly would be fun enough to be enjoyed for playing with/amongst normal people.
Id say dont give up and clean the leaks even further, as much as possible. No any real annoyance here other than that lag.
 
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He mentioned river in the north and circular isle to the west, ive gone to both places with zeppelin, both had an invincible obsidian statue, stand next to it use the keys, nothing happent. Can, fe. clicking on the questgiver npc during monologue bug this all and cause it to cycle among multiple statues ? Meanwhile we lost as alliance partying wild at the mainbase in our absence.
Hmm.. I'll have to go through this when I get back to my workdesk. I'll investigate what happened, fix and streamline the thing. Sorry about this. I'm puzzled why it doesn't work now when it has been tested many times and been used several during actual games.

Past a certain amount of spawn, the rest of 'garrison' should join in the next wave of their side, in the line they are in when that wave is passing nearby to prevent unit lag, as they are massing on the spot doing nothing.
Also mere footmen dont really pose an obstacle for ninja-capping, maybe instead the garrison should be enhanced to include multiple troop types, at begin would spawn a few footman, then a few ranged, then an trio of knight/spellbreaker, with a pair of offensive casters next (and their horde equivelants), with the additional footman spawn being added as an multiplicator for the side controlling the points on their next wave in that line only, or perhaps globally.
Maybe controlling all 3 points could give an combined bonus like an item price discount, faster recharge on hiring minions from base of own side only, etc ?
Thanks for the ideas! I'll see what I can manage to implement.

Ive stated that the mountain pass route is clearly a line as opposed to the other 2 main routes of attack, as you cannot freely reach the upperground and require external aide in the form of an zeppelin or teleport scroll, to assist an teammate that happened to have took that route to farm in, making it an less preferable option than the other two.
I agree. But then again, if you DO go that way, it's harder for the opponents, using the easier option, to stop you when taking out the Great Hall or whatever you're doing up there. It's just a geometrical feature that impacts a bit on the overall strategy.

When we got an Griffon they got an Windrider, when 3 knights spawn here wolfriders in an amount that would be equal to their combat strength spawns over there for them, here comes 3 catapults and our 3 ballista are rolling towards them. Not always necessarily in the same line, and frequently in the opposite concerning spawns on the side lines.
Either you have carefully tooled the waves to be "asymetrically symetrical" and i like it, or perhaps have been very lucky to have such balanced spawns generated totally randomly and its not this good at its default. Im not sure now :p
Well, yes, in fact, normal spawns are 1 random out of 12 possible "batches" of units. We could have added more such batches, but since everyone runs different ways, some units are faster or slower, catching up and mixes with previous batches, and because the waypoints underway may split a single batch into two lesser forces going separate ways, everyhing just kind of mixes up. I could definitely add more combinations, but if I touched the base unit spawn mechanism now, I would go through a new nightmare of balancing a non-symmetrical system. There's really no other way than running the map over and over repeatedly to get the macro-statistics in place; when I started making the map some 10 years ago, for several months I never went to sleep or leave for school without having the game run standard batches against eachother and write up the statistics of who won and which stronghold that fell first. It would off course have been much easier to do like dota and say that the same batch spawns and goes the same way, and the exact same units does the same on the opposite end of the corridor. That scheme can actually be set up in a matter of minutes.. it's so easy, but still the world loves it, so I guess joke's on me.

Well, thats just me, after a ten thousand battles anything feels the same.
I have to state whilst here is indeed room for improvement, the idea itself isnt that terrible, and most certainly would be fun enough to be enjoyed for playing with/amongst normal people.
Id say dont give up and clean the leaks even further, as much as possible. No any real annoyance here other than that lag.
Thanks, man. I'll try to keep improving it. Sorry for the lag, that's a total deal-breaker. I just got lazy on the leak-hunt when I saw that it worked on the systems of guys I played with.
 
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In singleplayer mode, A.I heroes doesn't work exactly like it would for human players. They spawn a bit more like normal units. But then again, A.I is much dumber than a human player ;)
I will make a variable difficulty setting in the near future, but until then, I'd love to hear if you guys find the map to be TOO difficult and stressful.

Tip; if you choose one computer player as your opponent, the map will think you're playing against an actual player, and will spawn much less units and no heroes.


That means 1 thing ...
I'm dumber than the A.I. XD
 
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That means 1 thing ...
I'm dumber than the A.I. XD

Hehehe! absolutely not, good sir. But the game difficulty is adjusted for a group of players that has played the map extremely much. I totally understand that it's a bit overwhelming at first try. Hence my intended update-to-come with variable difficulty from 1-10 or something like that.
 
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variable difficulty from 1-10
here are some ideas for difficulty.
1v1: as its name implies mainly for exploring the map as there spawns only a single AI hero on opposite team.
scenariolike(for coop?): at begin spawns one hero for the AI, then more over time dependant on how far you have progressed in demolishing the hostile base. If you managed to be real quick on your own its possible to delay the arrival of next opponent hero or even reduce the total hostile hero count to be spawned(however total cant fall below 2 heroes against you at a time)
blood for the bloodgod: spawns entire enemy team, adhering to unique pick rule, at round end displays timer about how long you managed to hold out. If something really weird happens and you manage to win 1v5 sends your name to hall of fame.

I just thought of something. What if the heroes would have only one limited life(right to respawn) at game start and to get additional will have to buy ankhs (eg. ankhs would disappear and contribute +1 respawn).

The only other map i ever liked of this genre is StarBattle in Sc2 and at there is absolutely no respawn whatsoever, once you are gone its over for you, the matches are very intense there, altough the context is very different alltogether(theme is space ships so everyone has ranged attack, etc.). Remembering that thought maybe there can be an "-norespawn mode" for PvP here, everyone would have only one life but start out with more gold and at one higher level than usual.
 
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