[ARPG] Soldiers of Justice

[Mephisto]

Greetings, Hive!

My experience in the Warcraft III World Editor far exceeds my participation of this site, in fact only recently joining. Though I haven't been registered here for quite some time, I have surfed and studied this site and indeed wonder why I haven't been registered previously in my Warcraft career.

My aim is to create one of my favorite genres of games: Action Role-Playing Games. Of course, I know of many Warcraft III maps that encourage and utilize this genre, and do so quite well. My goal is to do exactly this, and more, and I need ideas on how I would complete it.

So far, the map is just an idea. A spark of creation. But it will expand, I assure you, and I want your help to make it expand. I want your ideas, your contribution, to expand and make this idea great. What ideas, you may ask? I will be happy to give you more information.

To begin with, you must know that the map has no story as of yet, no lore. I have been searching for a workshop for quite some time and have found two, though I am still deciding on which one to post in. Enough of my troubles, though. I aim to make the game as much like the Diablo franchise as possible. Be assured that there will be no Diablo characters, lore, places or anything like that, merely the atmosphere and general idea. What is that? A dark, gloomy game with much bloodshed and hopelessness, and a war between angels, humans and demons.

The general shape of the map has not been chosen. Will it be a progressive mission-type role-play, or a less linear, choose your own way role-play? That will be decided by me with your contributions, much later in the game's development. For now, I need a few key points and your ideas on them.

---* The Lore. I will request at a story workshop for the basis of the idea, though I need some input before I do. Should the demons and angels be immortal? If so, how are they killed and revived? How long has this war been raging? Where does humanity stand? All this and more will help me and the workshop I choose to determine the shape of the story.
---* Characters. I don't want specific names and people, but the basic idea of them. Should there be a 'council' of angels, and a set of demonic lords? And if so, should the angels and demons be the embodiment of heavenly virtues and deadly sins respectively? I also need one great point: how can humanity (the main characters in this map) have a chance against immortal legions from Hell (which evokes more questions: is there hell/heaven, or do they all live together in the same world?). Are there Nephalem-type men (offspring of immortals) or something similar?
---* Places you'd like to see in the map. I aim to have several 'Acts' much like in the Diablo franchise. What should these acts be centered in. For example, Act I in Diablo III is Khanduras (grassy, forests, foothills), whereas Act II is Caldeum (deserts, oasis). I want as much diversity as possible.
---* Lastly, features in the real map. I aim to have a save/load system, of course, and a proper inventory. What do you guys want to see?

Thank you for your contributions, Hive. It was definitely a great idea to register here and ask for your opinions and help. I look forward to hearing your ideas for this map.

Sincerely,
Mephisto (Justin Levella)

 

[Lolzaxis]

Hey, I got a few ideas you might like.

For the lore (personal favorite) you may request at Zzones Lore Workshop, check my sig. Also, you should try to part from Diablos lore as much as possible. Its good, and that is why you should stay away from it. Good = memorable, and copying memorable lore = bad. I'm glad you are looking to ignore Diablo as much as possible, at least its story.

As for characters, I personally do not find anything wrong with having the angels and demons represent virtues and sins. Also, all thedemons should have separate armies.

I know I've missed some apostrophes, but that's just because I am on an iPad at the moment.

 

[Veritas 117]

I've got some ideas on the mortality (or immortality) of angels and demons. They cannot be killed so to speak because once they are defeated they are cast back to their respective places (heaven or hell). The only way to truly defeat a demon is to descend into hell, fight them, and weaken them enough to trap them. Now that I write this I can't help but think of the soulstones from Diablo... Anyways it's just an idea maybe you can build off of it.

 

[DZerpic]

Maybe a nice twist would be to say that the only way to defeat a demon/angel is to turn them to the other side. Force a demon to commit a noble act and he'll be forced to go to the heavens, losing all his demonic powers. Make an angel sin and he'll go to hell, losing all heavenly favor.

How would men defeat a horde of immortal demons? Maybe apply a condition that makes it impossible for 'hell' to spawn them again, maybe it costs too much energy, or if the demon army's lieutenants are captured or imprisoned the army has to fall back into hell.

You really just need to sit down and start brainstorming what ever comes to mind.

 

[Mephisto]

I've got some ideas on the mortality (or immortality) of angels and demons. They cannot be killed so to speak because once they are defeated they are cast back to their respective places (heaven or hell). The only way to truly defeat a demon is to descend into hell, fight them, and weaken them enough to trap them. Now that I write this I can't help but think of the soulstones from Diablo... Anyways it's just an idea maybe you can build off of it.

I like this idea, but I'm not aiming for soulstones. Unless, there is a kind of natural soulstones that can hold demons/angels? Some sort of strange magical prison or something built by ancient gods? But your input evokes another question: can mortals enter heaven/hell and, if so, how?

Maybe a nice twist would be to say that the only way to defeat a demon/angel is to turn them to the other side. Force a demon to commit a noble act and he'll be forced to go to the heavens, losing all his demonic powers. Make an angel sin and he'll go to hell, losing all heavenly favor.

Hmm you might need to expand on this a bit more. How would a mortal force a demonic lord to commit a noble act? It seems highly improbable that such a creature can be brought down merely by doing something good. But if you can expand on the idea, I'll be happy to consider the rest.

How would men defeat a horde of immortal demons? Maybe apply a condition that makes it impossible for 'hell' to spawn them again, maybe it costs too much energy, or if the demon army's lieutenants are captured or imprisoned the army has to fall back into hell.

'...a condition that makes it impossible for 'hell' to spawn them again...' perfect! Perhaps not the two examples you've given, but what if mortals can somehow fracture hell so that it cannot bring it's forces in so easily? I also had another thought: what if angels bestowed power upon humanity? Yes, I know the Horadrim exist in the Diablo series, but we could change it, perhaps the angels didn't mean to empower humanity?

You really just need to sit down and start brainstorming what ever comes to mind.

Thank you, and I've been trying in between school and other things that make my life busy. I'm just gonna sit back and rake in the ideas you guys give me

But I do brainstorm. With you guys!

 

[Binsu]

The Lore: It would be great if the way has been raging for almost an eternity where the world was already in the brink of destruction.

The Characters: I like your idea making the angel and demons, the embodiment of heavenly virtues and sins. Also that the demons would be consists of Demon Lords which will serve as the leaders. Perfectly fits. It would be great if the demons can be defeated through purification or with light like in the game, Dante's Inferno if you know what I meant. Where the character purifies a demon through showing the cross to it and burning it.

Places: For the Act 1, it would be great if it would start on your hometown near a forest being attacked by swarms of demons like in the Act 1 of Diablo III

For the Act 2, it would be great if you are to journey to a great town that is in war with Demons (possibly, the humans aiding the angels on fighting the demons) (the town will look like some sort of the Act 3 of Diablo III where they are in war except its not snowing).

For the Act 3, still the same place but within the battlefield lies a cave where it is said to be the pathway to Hell.

For the Act 4, you are to enter Hell itself and to end this conflict between the Angels and Demons.

 

[Doomguy80]

I have made a collection of ideas from the Hive that give sort of a guideline wen making an RPG. In addition, I could help by being a lore creator. I have an idea that differs from Angels/Humans/Demons but still fits the darkness/no hope left theme.

Just PM me if you are interested.

 

[Mephisto]

The Lore: It would be great if the way has been raging for almost an eternity where the world was already in the brink of destruction.

By this you mean the world is already weak? I'm assuming the angels and demons are completely devoid of this fracture within the world, yet humanity can see it? That would be a nice touch to the story.

The Characters: I like your idea making the angel and demons, the embodiment of heavenly virtues and sins. Also that the demons would be consists of Demon Lords which will serve as the leaders. Perfectly fits. It would be great if the demons can be defeated through purification or with light like in the game, Dante's Inferno if you know what I meant. Where the character purifies a demon through showing the cross to it and burning it.

Through purification? Possibly...

Places: For the Act 1, it would be great if it would start on your hometown near a forest being attacked by swarms of demons like in the Act 1 of Diablo III

For the Act 2, it would be great if you are to journey to a great town that is in war with Demons (possibly, the humans aiding the angels on fighting the demons) (the town will look like some sort of the Act 3 of Diablo III where they are in war except its not snowing).

For the Act 3, still the same place but within the battlefield lies a cave where it is said to be the pathway to Hell.

For the Act 4, you are to enter Hell itself and to end this conflict between the Angels and Demons.

Act I I like. although a bit more fleshed out with some major point of lore attached to it. There's no reason for the hero to be in this spot... there needs to be something drawing him here, much like the Fallen Star in Diablo 3, and in Diablo 2 the hero was following the Dark Wanderer A.k.A Diablo, Lord of Terror. Act II I like also, and it can be much the same environment as Act I. Act III would probably have to be expanded more, and Act IV is the ultimate ending .

I have made a collection of ideas from the Hive that give sort of a guideline wen making an RPG. In addition, I could help by being a lore creator. I have an idea that differs from Angels/Humans/Demons but still fits the darkness/no hope left theme.

Just PM me if you are interested.

Thanks for that, and I will certainly PM you. I think we need a lore compiler.

Also, +REP for everyone who has helped:
- Lolzaxis
- Veritas 117
- DZerpic
- Hellmaster
- Doomguy80

 

[cleavinghammer]

Would help if we knew a bit more about the hero. Is he an ordinary man or The One, prophecied to end the war? Is he neutral, good, or evil?

Also, make sure your angel/demon split isn't directly Good/Bad. Make things like angels who won't hesitate to use their own soldiers as bait for an ambush (as long as it kills more demons than angels) or demons who just want out of hell and would be happy to surrender to someone who won't kill them on sight. And vice-versa.

As for terrain, if you want a large variety collecting plot coupons is always a good excuse.

Finally, one thing I've seen in good maps that adds to the replay value is making a series of sidequests that, when completed or failed, give different endings or affect missions later on. For example, a merchant is attacked by bandits and asks you to retrieve his money. You kill the bandits and then choose to keep the money or return it (and to make the choice less obvious, have the merchant be a slaver or something). If you returned it, he'll show up later with very good items to sell, if you didn't, you still made a lot more money than the tiny reward he gives. And so on.

 

[Mephisto]

Would help if we knew a bit more about the hero. Is he an ordinary man or The One, prophecied to end the war? Is he neutral, good, or evil?

So far we have concluded that the angelic/demonic war is between those two factions, though human kingdoms have been choosing a side in the war and working for either the darkness or the light. Because of this, we were thinking of creating two different 'campaigns', the demonic humans and the angelic humans. The 'campaigns' would feature the same acts, but different goals and possibly different environments. For example, Act II (the siege), would be a defense for angelic humans and a siege for demonic humans. OR the player chooses a side before hand.

Also, make sure your angel/demon split isn't directly Good/Bad. Make things like angels who won't hesitate to use their own soldiers as bait for an ambush (as long as it kills more demons than angels) or demons who just want out of hell and would be happy to surrender to someone who won't kill them on sight. And vice-versa.

Things like this really make the game much more enjoyable and believable, and makes characters more or less human (even though they are demons/angels, you know what I mean - emotions and such). It will certainly be considered when demon lords and angelic councils are being created (you'll see progress on that here soon!)

As for terrain, if you want a large variety collecting plot coupons is always a good excuse.

Could you possibly explain what you mean here. Sorry, I couldn't understand it .

Finally, one thing I've seen in good maps that adds to the replay value is making a series of sidequests that, when completed or failed, give different endings or affect missions later on. For example, a merchant is attacked by bandits and asks you to retrieve his money. You kill the bandits and then choose to keep the money or return it (and to make the choice less obvious, have the merchant be a slaver or something). If you returned it, he'll show up later with very good items to sell, if you didn't, you still made a lot more money than the tiny reward he gives. And so on.

Side-quests and events are all being considered, and your ideas are welcomed and helpful. We thought about it and decided we'd either want this (the multiple endings of quests/events) or randomness such as in the Diablo series (enemies being there and not, events sometimes there, sometimes not. This way we could have a surplus of quests and events that may or may not be there. However, if this is not Editor-possible with triggers, it could be excluded.)

+Rep and thanks for the feedback.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Plot coupons are when you need to collect several items in order to advance the plot (for example, the Key of the Three Moons level in WIII, the seven Horcruxes in Harry Potter, or every Zelda game ever). So let's say at one point you need to find a spell to open the way to the demon's base; but the spell requires several items (scrolls to read the spell, body parts from various animals, etc.): one is in an ice field, one in a desert, one in a forest, and one in a cave.

 

[Mephisto]

Plot coupons are when you need to collect several items in order to advance the plot (for example, the Key of the Three Moons level in WIII, the seven Horcruxes in Harry Potter, or every Zelda game ever). So let's say at one point you need to find a spell to open the way to the demon's base; but the spell requires several items (scrolls to read the spell, body parts from various animals, etc.): one is in an ice field, one in a desert, one in a forest, and one in a cave.

Oh so you mean the player has to find a item per act to continue into act 4, or something similar? I suppose that is a good idea, especially if it can be well blended with the story. So, for example, in Diablo 3 you have to find Zoltun Kulle's head, blood and body, and that would be a plot coupon?

You learn something every day

 

[cleavinghammer]

That is an example, though I was thinking more of a hub-style map that would allow you to collect them in any order. Perhaps make it the focus of a single act, rather than the overarching story.

For example, Act 2 would end by learning that you need to acquire four objects to open the way to Hell/Heaven. Act 3, then, would be devoted to finding these objects. You'd start at the hub, where the portal will open, and choose which part you'll go after first, with each part guarded by a boss in a different-themed dungeon (experience might be a problem here, either reduce it or trigger the enemies to be stronger to avoid the levels getting progressively easier). The PC is teleported/zeppelined to the regions in order to obtain them.

The dungeons themselves could range from single boss rooms to actual dungeons to entire regions, depending on what scale you want.

Once all four items are obtained, the PC returns to the hub, the protal opens, and onwards to act 4.

 

[Mephisto]

That is an example, though I was thinking more of a hub-style map that would allow you to collect them in any order. Perhaps make it the focus of a single act, rather than the overarching story.

Oh now I understand

For example, Act 2 would end by learning that you need to acquire four objects to open the way to Hell/Heaven. Act 3, then, would be devoted to finding these objects. You'd start at the hub, where the portal will open, and choose which part you'll go after first, with each part guarded by a boss in a different-themed dungeon (experience might be a problem here, either reduce it or trigger the enemies to be stronger to avoid the levels getting progressively easier). The PC is teleported/zeppelined to the regions in order to obtain them.

The dungeons themselves could range from single boss rooms to actual dungeons to entire regions, depending on what scale you want.

Once all four items are obtained, the PC returns to the hub, the protal opens, and onwards to act 4.

We've considered this and it sounds like a good start to Act 3, which is the only act we haven't started designing and creating mobs for. Here's what we came up with ten minutes after reading your post: Act 3's hub is either heaven or a fort/barricade on the edge of Hell (yeah, Diablo 2 ), but the demon lords have hidden the fractured remains of the Hell Gate so that the angels cannot attack their weakened forms. The player must find these fractures (the Hell Spire, the Fractured Spine and the Demonic Essence). Since these objects are quite large when the player finds them angels teleport in and use magic or something to remove the piece and bring it back to the Hell Gate. This story is currently under development.

I also had the thought that the pieces are, instead of being hidden in new places, they are hidden in old places. For example, the Hell Spire could possibly be located in Act I. But when you go back there to find it, it has corrupted the country and there are undead or something roaming, cities destroyed, places green and luxurious you'd passed before, are now corrupt and desecrated.

EDIT: The Hell Spire in Act I. The Fractured Spine in Act II. The Demonic Essence in Act... I realized we would have to create a new area.

 

[cleavinghammer]

Not necessarily. Just have the first map with the Dalaran terrain, and save a new one after switching to Dalaran Ruins. Of course it won't work for everything, but it should save you some time.

And like I said, the size of the terrain can be limited to whatever you want it to be (I suggest you take a look at the Day of the Dragon campaign here for an example of what I mean).