Armor reducing damage from passive skill sources?

[Death Adder]

Seen as how passive abilities are physical armor should reduce their damage? Even if it's demolisher DoT on ground or Mine's Explode on Death?

Edit: After being home at the computer I had the time to test this and even though burning oil is physical, tested on magic immune units, it didn't recieve any damage reduction from 1k armor in comparison to a target with 0 armor.

 

[Kino]

Seen as how passive abilities are physical armor should reduce their damage? Even if it's demolisher DoT on ground or Mine's Explode on Death?

Whoever said that passives were physical?

Feedback, Bash, Poisons, Immolation, Phoenix Fire, Burning Oil, Liquid Fire. Just to name a few that are not physical.

 

[Death Adder]

http://classic.battle.net/war3/basics/spellbasics.shtml

Physical Spells
Physical Spells cannot be dispelled, do affect magic immune units and normal units, and do not affect ethereal units.
Examples
- Poison of various types (NOT Shadow Strike)
- Ensnare & Web
- Critical Strike/Bash/other attack buffers
- Disease
- Similar spells which DO NOT require mana to cast (mana cost spells are ALWAYS magical or universal)

I assumed Blizzard know their own game?

Edit: Obviusly using DEFAULT game constants, before someone mention this. I.E Web & Ensane can made so that they can't target magic immune.

 

[UgoUgo]

This is a very useful information. Always nice to learn new stuffs about wc3 mechanics.

 

[Kino]

Physical Spells
Physical Spells cannot be dispelled, do affect magic immune units and normal units, and do not affect ethereal units.
Examples
- Poison of various types (NOT Shadow Strike)
- Ensnare & Web
- Critical Strike/Bash/other attack buffers
- Disease
- Similar spells which DO NOT require mana to cast (mana cost spells are ALWAYS magical or universal)

I assumed Blizzard know their own game?

Well then obviously they don't.

Passive poisons cant be purged by dispel magics, but they infact do magical type damage.
Bash's damage component is magical.

 

[Chaosy]

@kino
it's likely just outdated information

 

[UgoUgo]

Well then obviously they don't.

Passive poisons cant be purged by dispel magics, but they infact do magical type damage.
Bash's damage component is magical.

I made a simple test.

So I modified the bash skill to have 2x damage multiplier + 120 bonus damage and launched it on a unit with 1000 armor (normal). The unit received only 3-4 damage. This proved that bash is a physical damage, critical strike would likely be the same.

Next, I modified Wind Rider's envenomed spears to dealing 120 damage per second. The unit's armor did not ignore the damage, he still receives the exact damage value.

 

[edo494]

Well then obviously they don't.

Passive poisons cant be purged by dispel magics, but they infact do magical type damage.
Bash's damage component is magical.

notice, "Physical Spells" not "Physical Damage"

 

[Dr Super Good]

Units will take at least 1 damage (before type reduction) from any damage source. So if you have 1000 armor or 1000000 armor that 1-1 damage unit will still deal 1 damage to you (before type reductions). In SC2 this is lowered to 0.5 damage for some obscure reason.

All spell damage ignores armor. Some abilities (like Poison Cloud) remove HP directly and do not deal damage at all (like negative health generation).

 

[Kino]

notice, "Physical Spells" not "Physical Damage"

notice, the OP asked about reducing physical spell damage with armour.
My point is that physical spells in some cases do magical damage.

I made a simple test.

So I modified the bash skill to have 2x damage multiplier + 120 bonus damage and launched it on a unit with 1000 armor (normal). The unit received only 3-4 damage. This proved that bash is a physical damage, critical strike would likely be the same.

Apparently not.
In the below map, Bash Deals 99999 damage and so should theoretically 1 hit the 700ish hp spell breaker. But it doesn't because of his magic immunity.

 

[edo494]

I was pointing out that what he quoted mentions nothing about damage type, but the spell type, those are 2 different things

 

[Xonok]

I made a simple test.

So I modified the bash skill to have 2x damage multiplier + 120 bonus damage and launched it on a unit with 1000 armor (normal). The unit received only 3-4 damage. This proved that bash is a physical damage, critical strike would likely be the same.

Next, I modified Wind Rider's envenomed spears to dealing 120 damage per second. The unit's armor did not ignore the damage, he still receives the exact damage value.

notice, the OP asked about reducing physical spell damage with armour.
My point is that physical spells in some cases do magical damage.



Apparently not.
In the below map, Bash Deals 99999 damage and so should theoretically 1 hit the 700ish hp spell breaker. But it doesn't because of his magic immunity.

So basically bash can't trigger on magic-immune units, unless level required makes it an ultimate, but then again it still deals physical damage?
Looks like attack type physical, damage type magical.

 

[Death Adder]

One thing i tested was atleast that the demolisher passive, burning oil (or whatever the name is), deals damage to magic and spell immune units but ignores armor.

So it can't be a spell or magic because then it wouldn't deal damage and it can't do physical damage because then it wouldn't ignore armor.

Edit: Chaos damage doesn't ignore armor, right? it's only that it deals full damage to all armor types (unless you change the constants)

 

[Kino]

So basically bash can't trigger on magic-immune units, unless level required makes it an ultimate, but then again it still deals physical damage?
Looks like attack type physical, damage type magical.

The stun always procs on spell immune units, the damage however doesn't.
I have a test map to prove it.

Edit: Chaos damage doesn't ignore armor, right? it's only that it deals full damage to all armor types (unless you change the constants)

Yes, that is true.

One thing i tested was atleast that the demolisher passive, burning oil (or whatever the name is), deals damage to magic and spell immune units but ignores armor.

So it can't be a spell or magic because then it wouldn't deal damage and it can't do physical damage because then it wouldn't ignore armor.

The thing is that in wc3 there is no real definition of physical/magical abilities and passives.
Its entirely on a case by case basis, theyre a lot of abilities that are only partially blocked by magical immunity.

 

[Xonok]

The thing is, don't mix up attack type with target type.

Chaos, Normal, Piercing, etc are attack types. They mainly affect how much damage is done against specific armor types.

Fire, magic, universal, physical(or w/e) are target/damage types. They affect what can be targeted/hit and whether armor reduction applies.

 

[Death Adder]

The thing is, don't mix up attack type with target type.

Chaos, Normal, Piercing, etc are attack types. They mainly affect how much damage is done against specific armor types.

Fire, magic, universal, physical(or w/e) are target/damage types. They affect what can be targeted/hit and whether armor reduction applies.

Good point. But from what I've read somewhere sometime before Fire and a lot of whatever damage types doesn't do anything.

And so I'd like to know if there are more info on this.

 

[muzzel]

http://classic.battle.net/war3/basics/armorandweapontypes.shtml

 

[Kino]

The thing is, don't mix up attack type with target type.

Chaos, Normal, Piercing, etc are attack types. They mainly affect how much damage is done against specific armor types.

Fire, magic, universal, physical(or w/e) are target/damage types. They affect what can be targeted/hit and whether armor reduction applies.

I did not mix anything up, what I said was that many hardcoded abilities have their own seperate target/damaging behaviour (to the point where its a case by case basis and there is no hard classification of what is a physical or magical spell).

Finger of Death is good example, it can target magic immune units but does not deal any damage to them (and thus by extention does nothing).

 

[Death Adder]

I did not mix anything up, what I said was that many hardcoded abilities have their own seperate target/damaging behaviour (to the point where its a case by case basis and there is no hard classification of what is a physical or magical spell).

Finger of Death is good example, it can target magic immune units but does not deal any damage to them (and thus by extention does nothing).

It's because it's an ultimate, but it deals magic damage, you can change it so that the damage pass through in the constants table.

Edit: It would be pretty useless to have magic immunity if they still take magic damage though

 

[Kino]

It's because it's an ultimate, but it deals magic damage, you can change it so that the damage pass through in the constants table.

Edit: It would be pretty useless to have magic immunity if they still take magic damage though

Nope, the neutral creep version is castable on magic immunes despite being a non ultimate.

 

[Death Adder]

Nope, the neutral creep version is castable on magic immunes despite being a non ultimate.

Oh yeah you're right, the neutral creep eredar warlocks can do it, well that is weird.