# [Miscellanous / Other]Armor mechanics: Removing the diminishing return

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#### Bobby#2614

Level 2
Yes, wc3 armor has diminishing return. First, my apologize for posting about a certainly known topic, but I'm new to wc3 moding, and I find percentage and probabilities discussions interesting. Aren't percentages a weird thing? They're relative without a definite value, can be added and worked like normal numbers, yet often start at 0 and finish at 100. The reason I say that is because wc3 armor does not work the way I thought it did.

For people that don't know, in wc3, each point of armor adds the same amount of EHP, or Equivalent Health Point.
----> 0 armor = 100% HP, 1 armor = 106% HP, 2 armor = 112% HP. For some this means it has no diminishing return, and in a way it is correct. BUT, I beg to differ.

I think that an armor system without diminishing return should not have a constant EHP, but a constant damage reduction. Here are some graphs to illustrate the situation.
-- In blue is the vanilla curve, used in wc3 and based on a 6% EHP increase per gained armor point.
-- In orange is my curve, used in my head and based on a 6% damage increase per loss armor point.
(The vanilla one is based on gained armor, and mine about loss. But it doesn't matter, it's just to keep it consistant on the 6%. A 6% damage increase per loss armor point is equal to a 5.66% damage decrease per gained armor point. You think it's weird? I do)

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Here are the two ways of representing armor inpact in wc3. On the left, the damage reduction (%) that is already displayed in game. On the right, the EHP (hp), basically the same thing, but represented on the hp.

Now those graphs don't show much, but now I will show you the difference between constant damage reduction and constant EHP.

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Here you can more clearly understand what I'm talking about. On the left you can see the constant damage reduction, on the right, the constant EHP.

So basically :
Armor point = Ap, Damage taken = dmg
---> On the left graph: 1Ap = 106% dmg of 2Ap -- 2Ap = 106% dmg of 3Ap -- 3Ap = 106% dmg of 4A etc.
---> On the right graph: 1Ap = 106% hp of 0Ap -- 2Ap = 112% hp of 0Ap -- 3Ap = 118% hp of 0A etc.

Starting to see my point? The constant damage reduction is always relative to the previous armor amount. +1 armor at 0 has the same effect as +1 armor at 10'000 !
Now, my argument why a constant damage reduction is better than a constant hp bonus:

It makes it viable to have armor reduction/addition without regard to the scale of armor used.

It does not matter if the creeps have 10 or 10'000 armor, your -20 armor reduction aura tower will still have the same effect, and the same use! The aura stays relevant.
It does not matter if the enemies have 10 or 10'000 armor, your -20 armor reduction acid bomb will still have the same effect, and the ame use! The ability stays relevant.

I am very open to discussion and hope this post will not disappear in the abyss of this site. I would be interested if anyone has already tried to implement a similar armor reduction calculation for his map.

Anyways, good modding to you my dear warcraft gamers.

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#### Bobby#2614

Level 2
So is this like, an informal petition to Blizzard?
More like a solution to armor auras, so that they always have the same effect, no matter the armor of the unit to begin with. Not like Blizzard would care about changing that kind of thing ^^

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#### noob

Level 14
There is a reason for armour diminishing returns: it is so that armour stacking does not outcompetes damage stacking or attack speed stacking.
Right now if you stack armour it progresses at the same pace as stacking attack speed(+1 armour is comparable to +6% attack speed and +10 armour is comparable to +60% attack speed), with your change stacking armour would progress at an exponential pace therefore outmatching attack speed.
If we had attack speed stacking work the same way as you envision armour stacking, a tauren chieftain with 6 gloves of attack speed, maximum level endurance aura and the shaman buff would attack at more than 4.4 the base attack speed(instead of the 2,65 times the base attack speed it gets right now) which is crazy.

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