Anyone knows about stackings (critical, bash, block)

[JFAMAP]

question 1: There are item they have a 2x damage 20% chance.
If someone purchases this item 2 times , their hero how much percentage deals how much damage

question 2: i have a critical strike ability with 25% 2x critical
if i will puchase item with 20% percentage 2x critical, my hero how much percentage deals how much damage

question 3: there are item they have 50% chance to blocks 50 damage, if someone purchases this item 2 times how much percentage to deals how much damage

question 4: i have a damage block ability with 50% 50 damage block
if i will puchase item with 50% percentage 50 damage block critical, my hero how much percentage blocks how much damage

question 5 and question 6 is Bash ability, same as the 1 and 2 or 3 and 4

i really wanted to learn that.

And example i have a 50% evasion ability and there are item with evasion ability 50%, how stacks this items ?


ok ok really i wanted thanks everyone who tried help me but everyone talked about different things i want to replace question with pictures

I have a 3 items and 1 ability and those ability and items based on Hardened Skin

If i have a Flesh Skin Level 4 after than i will purchase Iron Plate
1-)skill and item will stack ?
2-)if yes, how can i calculate, only i wanted to know formula

If i have Mithrill Plate and i'm picked Armor of Bladebane
1-)item and item will stack ?
2-)if yes, how can i calculate, only i wanted to know formula

Flesh Skin and Iron Plate

Mithrill Plate and Armor of Bladebane

 

[Raven0]

I dont' have time to put em' all in a calculator right now, but the abilities act independant of eachother and can stack. However if two critical strikes go off on the same hit only the one acquired first will run through.

 

[ap0calypse]

Q1: 20% to deal double damage AND 20% to deal double damage (if the first one fails, the second one can still activate).
The two can activate at the same time, but only one will actually hit.

Q2: 25% to deal 2x damage AND 20% to deal 2x critical.

Q3, 4: ideam above.


Basically: the value never changes (2x damage will remain 2x damage, this can never change), the only thing that changes is the percentage.

 

[Lich Prince]

It's like simply having a second chance.

 

[defskull]

I think it will stack, DIMINISHINGLY
There are ways to calculate them
It's NOT a perfect addition
Like 20% chance and 20% chance on the same unit will give a total of 40% chance, it doesn't work like that
It stacks diminishingly (not perfect addition)
Like 20% + 20% = 33.63%

 

[Vunjo]

1: 2x 20%-2x. Which means that hero will have 2 chances, which is NOT 40%.
2: 20%-2x + 25%-2x
3: 2x 50%-50 DMG, again, won't stack
4: Soz can't understand the other part =)
5 , 6: So is the result same as crit. It CAN happen more times, and it CAN deal more damage, but stun will be the same.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Critical strike and bash roles function the same way and stack perfectly. However only 1 can ever proc at the same time. Thus having 6*10% chance will mean you get 6 chances to role a 10% critical strike. Due to how chances stack, this does not give you a 60% chance, the chance is 100 - the chance of none of them to pass.

Evasion does not stack at all. The highest chance to evade will always take piority while all lower ones will be ignored. For example, if your demon hunter has a talismin of evasion getting level 1 evasion will be a waste of a skill point as the talismin already gives far more than level 1 does. Like wise level 3 evasion makes the talismin completly worthless so it has to go to another hero or be sold.

Chances are not accurate. Many DotA players noted how some of the critical strike and evasions were not true to their set chances. At lower values it does not mater (10% is pretty close to 10%) but apparently at values like 75% you have a considerable lower chance to hit.

 

[ap0calypse]

Chances are not accurate. Many DotA players noted how some of the critical strike and evasions were not true to their set chances. At lower values it does not mater (10% is pretty close to 10%) but apparently at values like 75% you have a considerable lower chance to hit.

In addition to this, I have also done some testing and noticed this:

Note: I only tested this for critical strike.

• Percentages below 2.49 never hit, they equal a critical strike of 0% (at least, this was the case after 8.400 hits, not a single crit with 2.49% or lower).
• The actual percentages between two critical strikes with 7.49% and 7.50% chance to hit were exactly 5% apart (7.49 turned into 5.000% after 1000 hits, 7.50% turned into 10.000% after 1000 hits).

Important part:
I think that, from this data, we can derive that the percentages for (at least) critical strike are rounded up to the nearest 5%.

Thus: 12% is the same as 10%, 43% is the same as 45% and 97.5% is the same as 100% (I tested the last one as well, which also seemed to be true after 1000 hits).

I find this pretty important data actually, as nearly all maps with heroes (without a custom damage system) therefore contain incorrect data.
AoS's (such as DotA), RPGs, hero defenses, etc - anything that uses the critical strike ability with a percentage that is not dividable by 5 is incorrect.

Side-note: 7.4% and 7.8% will both appear as 7% in the tooltip, however their percentage is - in fact - 5% apart from eachother (being 5% and 10% respectively).
Additionally, this could be the same for bash and other percentage-based spells that are actually percentages (endurance aura works, because it has decimal numbers instead of percentages, such as 0.12 instead of 12%).

 

[Vunjo]

In addition to this, I have also done some testing and noticed this:

Note: I only tested this for critical strike.

• Percentages below 2.49 never hit, they equal a critical strike of 0% (at least, this was the case after 8.400 hits, not a single crit with 2.49% or lower).
• The actual percentages between two critical strikes with 7.49% and 7.50% chance to hit were exactly 5% apart (7.49 turned into 5.000% after 1000 hits, 7.50% turned into 10.000% after 1000 hits).

Important part:
I think that, from this data, we can derive that the percentages for (at least) critical strike are rounded up to the nearest 5%.

Thus: 12% is the same as 10%, 43% is the same as 45% and 97.5% is the same as 100% (I tested the last one as well, which also seemed to be true after 1000 hits).

I find this pretty important data actually, as nearly all maps with heroes (without a custom damage system) therefore contain incorrect data.
AoS's (such as DotA), RPGs, hero defenses, etc - anything that uses the critical strike ability with a percentage that is not dividable by 5 is incorrect.

Side-note: 7.4% and 7.8% will both appear as 7% in the tooltip, however their percentage is - in fact - 5% apart from eachother (being 5% and 10% respectively).
Additionally, this could be the same for bash and other percentage-based spells that are actually percentages (endurance aura works, because it has decimal numbers instead of percentages, such as 0.12 instead of 12%).

Wow, if that is rly true, then I think that Warcraft sucks hard. How did you manage to test it? 8400 hits??

 

[ap0calypse]

Wow, if that is rly true, then I think that Warcraft sucks hard. How did you manage to test it? 8400 hits??

Create a unit with 1 chaos damage and has max attack speed (0.01), give it a crit that deals double damage (percentage varies with the tests I did).
Create another unit with a lot of HP, doesn't have any armor and cannot flee.

Now place 10 of both units on the map (attackers owned by you, the lots-of-HP-unit owned by the enemy).
With a few simple triggers (unit takes damage event), you can check whether a unit took 1 or 2 damage, in case it took 2 damage, the crit activated.
With a modulo (if total amount of hits mod 100 == 0 then), you can show the statistics every 100 hits (which goes really fast actually).

I just waited it out a little

I also tested with multiple crit chances, multiple crit values etc, but those weren't really interesting ^^ (just that 2x 20% crit is indeed about 33%).

 

[Dr Super Good]

has max attack speed (0.01)

The maximum attack speed I discovered was 0.08 or atleast a simlar value.

On the DotA allstars forum I remember seeing someone post a graph on how the real chances varied with expected chances. I believe the end result was that the error became massive at near 90% but at 100% it always procced.

 

[Just_Spectating]

Q 1: algebraically it has a 4% chance that both will hit at the same time.
therefore it would be like 36%

 

[ap0calypse]

The maximum attack speed I discovered was 0.08 or atleast a simlar value.

On the DotA allstars forum I remember seeing someone post a graph on how the real chances varied with expected chances. I believe the end result was that the error became massive at near 90% but at 100% it always procced.

Well, I was just trying to say "as fast as possible" (as I never tested the maximum attack speed before :S).
And you can try out my experiment if you doubt it.

Q 1: algebraically it has a 4% chance that both will hit at the same time.
therefore it would be like 36%

That would be correct indeed (I couldn't recall correctly, but now you mention it... ).

 

[Urwaldbewohner]

about stacking crits: It can stack, just try it use 2 different crits(you have to) and then if both work the both will activate mean 1 damage normal first crit 2 damage second crit 4 damahe for exampls w3 even shows so.

 

[Dr Super Good]

No it does not, only one role can suceed at a time.

 

[Vunjo]

No it does not, only one role can suceed at a time.

Many crits can be done at the same time. Check this picture (sorry for big picture with tons of white color on it xD)

In this picture, you can see Double Crit. Number of crit (red numbers with !), are:
12 and behind it, is 6. Blademaster has 3 damage, and 3 critical abilities. Each with 2x Multiplyer, but chances are 10,15 and 20%.
So, it is possible to make more crits.

 

[Lambdadelta]

Unsure but this seems relevant.

 

[JFAMAP]

i wasn't here for a few days and i see everyone talked about different things. i'm totally confused now

 

[Dr Super Good]

Vunjo, did you actually check if the damage was done at all? It still does only 6 damage, despite it saying 12.

I just tested on a blademaster with his normal crit at max and 6 items with 100% crit for 2 times damage dealing atmost 120 damage a hit without crit.

400 appeared on the attacks for the crit damage. The damage dealt was 240 approximatly, which is as if only 1 crit procced.

It seems the bug is that it shows 2 crits procing and displays compound damage but in reality only 1 of them is counted and that is the damage used.

 

[ap0calypse]

I'm sorry, JFA, I'll sum it up for you

Chances round up to the nearest 5%:
All spells with a real percentage and not a decimal value (real percentage: 50.00 instead of 0.50, the decimal form) round their percentage up to the nearest 5%
Thus a critical strike of 33% will return a critical strike of 35%, a critical strike of 2% will return a critical strike of 0%.

Stacking passive abilities:
Critical strikes cannot stack damage, I don't know where the previous guy got that from (truth be told, I couldn't see the floating text because it was continuously spammed).
A simple damage detection for two 2x crit only resulted in a 2x crit, and not a 4x crit (which would happen if they both activated at the same time).
I tried changing the patches as well, without result.

Calculating chance for multiple passive abilities:
If you've got two critical strikes with the same damage multiplier (e.g. x2), then to calculate the chance that you get a critical strike, you must first calculate the chance both of them activate at the same time.
This is quite easy to do, let's say you've got a 30% crit x2 and a 40% crit x2.
The chance they both activate at the same time is 0.30 * 0.40 = .12 (12%).
Then you've got to add them: 30%+40% = 70% and substract that 12% from it: 70% - 12% = 58%.
Another example: two 95% crit 2x's = 95% + 95% - (95 * 0.95) = 99.75%

I hope you got all of that

(By the way, in my last calculation, 95 * 0.95 was derived by multiplying one percentage with the other decimal value - this is so you immediately get a percentage instead of a decimal value like in the first example).

 

[Vunjo]

Dr. Super Good, so it is regular Warcraft bug. Like, if Blademaster has Critical Strike ability, and an Item with another CT (I think that it is searing blade, correct me if I am wrong), and they both "react" or crit, then the damage will be dealt by only 1, but both numbers will be showed? If that is correct, then Blizzard should fix that bug with patches. Some maps can be ruined...
Also, was the dmg cause by 1 crit, or by First X Second crit?
I mean, was the damage 2 times, or 4 times?

 

[Just_Spectating]

Vunjo, the damage is only 2 times, and yes, it's a bug that blizzard should patch, but it's not a big deal, it can easily be triggered and blizzard has better things to do that people want them to do (like diablo 3 !!)

 

[defskull]

So, the if the XXX! stacks on one another (double stacking values), meaning it will take the highest amount of damage to be dealt?
Not ALL of the values will be done in damage ?

 

[-Kobas-]

Attack speed depend on all kind of crazy shit! (Another bothering limit is animation speed)

Check this image now ↓
So minimal attack speed is around 0.1

 

[D4RK_G4ND4LF]

I can confirm the round-up
7.5 -> 10% on 100,000 hits
2.49 -> 0% on 100,000 hits

The maximum attack speed I discovered was 0.08 or atleast a simlar value.

it might be possible that heros with more agility can attack even faster


edit:
100.000 attacks with 100 heroes with 1000000000 agility take 22 seconds -> attack cooldown of 0.0222....
100.000 attacks with 100 heroes with 15 agility take 78 seconds -> attack cooldown of 0.078
increasing the attack speed bonus per point of agility in gameplay constants does not have any effect (probably the limit is 550% as I read somewhere but I'm not sure)
animation and attack cooldown was set to 0.00
gamespeed was maxed (so real time and game time is equal)
edit2: further tests lead me to the conclusion that agility can increase attack speed by 450% to a total of 550%

 

[Dr Super Good]

No it is not possible.

I gave a hero with 1000 agiligy a 800000% faster attack item multiple copies off with a faster attack aura and it is still limited to a rather lage value (you can easilly hit the limit in the editor). Before you think I am stupid, I did remove all animation delay to 0.

The result was a prety clear limit, the exact magnitude of which I forget but it still exists and it is well below 100 attacks per second. I think it may have even been 8.33 attacks per second only.

Further more, the most +%AR (from abilities, agility or items) is +400% and -400% (the least). Any values outside those ranges are ignored and thus wasted. This is hard coded and every proper map maker from red scull (swat aftermath) to the team of DotA allstars knows this. +400% AR shoots 5 attacks in the time 1 was orignally shot (1/5 of normal attack speed) and -400% means that the delay between shots is 5 times longer.

If you set reload time to 0, it may attack faster but it is garunteed to lag any system running the game until the target dies (0 FPS). I strongly advise never touching 0 reload time.

 

[ap0calypse]

True, but off-topic

Warcraft has limitations in critical strike chance (rounds up), attack speed (can't be extremely fast), movement speed (idem) and other things as well.
But the question was about stacking passive abilities, and as far as I know that has been solved

(Although I must say that I learned quite a bit from this topic, including the things I experimented with myself).

 

[defskull]

I learned A LOT from this topic, especially to ap0 and Doctor guy =D

 

[JFAMAP]

ok ok really i wanted thanks everyone who tried help me but everyone talked about different things i want to replace question with pictures

I have a 3 items and 1 ability and those ability and items based on Hardened Skin

If i have a Flesh Skin Level 4 after than i will purchase Iron Plate
1-)skill and item will stack ?
2-)if yes, how can i calculate, only i wanted to know formula

If i have Mithrill Plate and i'm picked Armor of Bladebane
1-)item and item will stack ?
2-)if yes, how can i calculate, only i wanted to know formula

Flesh Skin and Iron Plate

Mithrill Plate and Armor of Bladebane

 

[Just_Spectating]

well its basically it
you have 42 chance to block 42 damage and 33 chance to block 20 damage.
and you'll have 61.14 chance of getting any block

 

[ap0calypse]

well its basically it
you have 42 chance to block 42 damage and 33 chance to block 20 damage.
and you'll have 61.14 chance of getting any block

To elaborate:

Chance 1 (C1) = 42%
Chance 2 (C2) = 33%

Total Chance = (C1 + C2 - ((C1 * C2)/100))

(Sorry, Just_Spectating, but he asked for a formula... I didn't want to steal your post or anything :| )