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[Miscellanous / Other] Alchemy Tower

Discussion in 'Idea Factory' started by Lord Aiden, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    So I was thinking about alternatives sources of income for wc3 as its a fairly common topic here on the forum, and while conversing with @pyf an idea had struck me, and now I present this idea for the whole forum to read, critique, and possibly improve upon and finally implement:

    You have a special tower, it doesn't do anything but has 4 or 6 item positions which are filled with "uncharged crystal shards" which cannot be dropped or otherwise removed by the player, once a friendly hero picks up a "rune" (basically absorbs it) one of the "uncharged crystals shards" becomes charged and produces a small steady income for the player, this can be done either 4 or 6 times for a much fuller steady passive income. If the tower is destroyed it can be rebuild and the shard or shards that were charged will still remain charged and continue to provide passive income.

    What do guys you think of my idea?
     
  2. Trill

    Trill

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    So you just need to find several items (which are random drops) to generate money? And after you find them all, its all absolutely passive from there?
    That, frankly speaking, is boring.

    Consider the following ideas:
    1) Runes must be carried to the alchemist tower to activate a crystal. They can only be carried by units, not by heroes, plus whoever carries a rune is visible to enemies and slowed. In addition, the crystals are activated temporarily, so you need to often supply runes, risking enemy intercepting them (and revealing where your alchemy tower is).

    2) More difficult idea, but one that justifies "alchemy tower" name. Heroes can find special "reagents" as drop from creeps, destroyed enemy buildings, maybe bought from shops. Placed in alchemy tower's inventory those generate some gold. Various combinations produce different amount of gold, some combinations also grant lumber, others grant weak but map-wide auras or periodically create weak items (like Lesser Clarity Potion). Problem is you only have 1 alchemy tower and so only 6 slots, so once you start replacing older reagents with new ones, you gotta be careful so enemy doesn't steal unused reagents (which may happen to be what he needs to finish his set). This gives you kind of progression and a goal to strive for.
     
  3. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    No, you got it wrong, a hero needs to find a special rune, there will be a limited number of runes on each map.

    The rune is absorbed and the energy automatically charges up the crystal shards - this is done so that a rune can't be taken from map to map by a hero whose inventory obviously carries over. Imagine you have a hero that carries 6 runes and you basically get a large passive income on a particular mission by basically cheating the system.
     
  4. Lord_Earthfire

    Lord_Earthfire

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    The idea kinda reminds me on relics from aoe2, exvept they get transferred automatically. It is an ok system to supplememt an eco, but by no means something to base an economy around. Trill's suggestion would make the issues with the system even worse, to which i come now.

    Eco-Systems have, at least in most RTS, simple requirements: As low micromanagement as possible, in the games beginning as low surface for interaction as possible, and limited supply or low effectivity.

    The reason for the first is easy to see: you should be able to focus on fights withoit constamtly juggling you economy. In the other thread, i saw systems proposed that required constant caretaking by a player. In an Turn based strategy game, this is completely fine, but not in a competative rts. Heck, when i looked at the evolution techtree contest, the lumber gathering buildings where already mucro-heavy since they only cut down wood around them and don't move.
    In the end, for that point the implementation is far more important than the concept.

    The reason for the second one is more subtle (not so ingame): Rushes. If a system enables disruption far too early, countering or preparing for rushes becomes an impossibility. That is one of the flaws that system gives. Except when it is not meant to replace gold mines and only supplement them. I will come to that soon.

    The reason for the third one is turtling. You need to give incentives, even more for newer player, to attack other players. Making them run out of a certain recource, like gold in most games, is a very effective method for that. But since we want player be able to turtle temporary, adding passive income could be possible. But it needs to always supplement the exoanding forcing income instead of replacing it, for example by making them less effective.
     
  5. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    Why make the items undroppable? You could have a system where each item gives a special effect (gold/lumber income, auras, production speed...) and the combination of items gives different results.
     
  6. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    If I make the item carry-able by a hero or drop-able by the tower the player can carry the item over into the next map, basically gaining extra income where it wasn't supposed to, in other words using something beyond its intended purpose
     
  7. cleavinghammer

    cleavinghammer

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    Can't you trigger it so it automatically disappears from non-tower inventory or something? If you're dealing with six items max it shouldn't be too hard to keep track.
     
  8. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    Yes I could, but I think my system is more abuse proof, the items cannot be taken out in any way and cannot be carried over
     
  9. Rem

    Rem

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    gotta agree with that one :)

    but it's just an extra gold system, not the main one and could never actually replace gold mines
     
  10. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    Yes you're right, but it was never intended to replace mines, only supplement the income of the player, especially in late game. That's why there are 6 slots, imagine each one giving you 50 gold/minute
    6 full slots = 300 gold/minute and that's a nice bonus
     
  11. Rem

    Rem

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  12. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    Back when Silventria was still in development Aster did all these calculations, from what I remember:

    A gold mine with 5 workers brings in 600 gold a minute, 2 gold mines bring in 1200 a minute

    Again this "alchemy tower" even with 6 charged crystals would generate much less gold than a single gold mine with 5 workers, you see my point, this will supplement the gold supply rather than replace the mines
     
  13. Rem

    Rem

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    But you could always have say 2 or 3 towers :)
     
  14. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    I would only allow one tower to be built

    Basically set a build limit of 1 using triggers
     
  15. Rem

    Rem

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    i was just teasing you :p, im sorry. you just take things way too seriously at times
     
  16. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    I didn't realize this, I was serious about this thing from the start
     
  17. -Phoenix-

    -Phoenix-

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    upload_2018-9-19_4-11-36.png

    But in a serious manner this "Alchemy Towers" of yours is an excellent concept if implemented right, it could make quests more worth doing, augment certains elements of the gameplay, used to adjust the difficulty of a map, the uses of this are as wide as you can conceive within your head and properly implement within the wc3 game engine
     
  18. Lord Aiden

    Lord Aiden

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    Thank you, I really appreciate that comment
     
  19. Rem

    Rem

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    dontt know if this was mentioned but Ive seen a different idea implemented in a similar fashion - you might wanna forget about the hero picking up the rune-just make any unit with an inventory be able to pick it up, then use a trigger to set it up, otherwise youll need a hero to go to the rune locations each time
     
  20. noob

    noob

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    Would alchemy tower lose efficiency with unkeep?
    Right now a full tower(300 g per minute) is better than a mine at full unkeep(200 g per minute).