Airships

[Zepher]

I like the defender unit, a specialize heavy anti air unit with super long range

980hp is a lot for an anti air unit, also a range of 900...that's really unique

 

[Lord Alyx]

yes its one unique unit

 

[Zepher]

Why do the towers around the castle each have a unique aura?

 

[Lord Alyx]

idk if you're aware but the castle has an anti-air attack that is quite strong but is normally slow, each tower enhances the speed of the castle's attack(via a modified endurance aura). The castle's attack outranges any of the player's air units attacks by at least 100, so if you attack the castle with all towers present you will get wiped out quick, the less towers the slower the castle attacks. Plus the towers themselves have an attack, but its not really strong

 

[Zepher]

Each one increases attack rate by 100% though, how does this make sense

 

[Lord Alyx]

Ok normal cooldown of castle is 3.00 seconds.

Towers alive----Cooldown (of castle's attack)
---5----------------0.50s
---4----------------0.67s
---3----------------0.75s
---2----------------1.00s
---1----------------1.50s
---0----------------3.00s

 

[Zepher]

Is there a formula?

 

[Lord Alyx]

yes

New attack rate = (attack rate)/(1+%increase)

so for lets say 1 tower with an 100% increase aura

new = 3/(1+100%) = 3/2 = 1.50 seconds

 

[Zepher]

Clever design

 

[Lord Alyx]

yep, it was intended so you don't just storm the castle with air units and win

 

[Zepher]

Why do all the towers have the suicidal classification though?

 

[Lord Alyx]

First so the aura won't effect them and will only effect the castle since its the only structure that can attack in the area without the suicidal classification, second is for trigger purposes, look up the triggers in the editor and see

 

[Lord Alyx]

good news!


I found a more recent (well this one is old too, but less older) beta of that map, the one you got was version 22, the one I found is version 39, I just send it over.

 

[Zepher]

Wait you guys scrapped the whole attack rate bonus aura concept in favor of giving the castle 5 armor bonus(+25) abilities?

 

[Lord Alyx]

yes the castle still attacks, but now it gets 5 armor bonus (+25) abilities by default, so its armor is 125 + regular armor, making the castle ultra attack resistant, when each tower gets destroyed one of those armor abilities gets removed, so 5 towers alive = 125 bonus armor, 4 towers alive = 100 bonus armor.......1 tower alive = 25 bonus armor, no towers alive = 0 bonus armor

basically the castle becomes very hard to destroy if the towers are alive, giving the player incentive to go after them

 

[Zepher]

Wont this make the player build up his gunships and go straight for the towers/castle?

 

[Lord Alyx]

he has to go through a bunch of other defenses to get there, like those anti air airships, defenders, and guard towers which stand around the base, it wont be a good idea attacking the towers directly as they have a good chunk of hp and going straight to them will lead to a bunch of other units trying to take you down, the idea was that you have to wipe out these units as well as the production facilities before going after the towers and the castle

 

[Zepher]

Interesting

 

[Lord Alyx]

when you trigger the cinematic and the bridges are destroyed the enemy build barricades around the castle and towers, like a protective circle, you obviously cant see it because it only happens once you set off that event

 

[Zepher]

Ok I got you, gonna check out the map further

 

[Lord Alyx]

Originally the concept was to have the towers scattered across the base so the player would have to find them and destroy them, but we've instead put 5 of them around the Duke's castle (originally we planned to have 8 towers)

 

[Zepher]

@deepstrasz what do you think about this?

 

[Raydin]

I don't think your buddy @deepstrasz knows much about moding, however I believe @San knows much more on the subject

 

[Zepher]

I mentioned deepstrasz because I'm sure he modded something in the past, or at least played with the editor and had some fun with it, but why bother San, he just had a whole movement against him, leave the guy alone.

 

[Raydin]

You have the hots for San now? Why defend him when he has like 3 of his buddies do this already and wipe down half of that thread

 

[Zepher]

Wait, why did you go all anti san, I understand the others don't like him for things that they believe he did, but you just hate the guy for no reason other than bandwagoning

 

[Raydin]

I believe he did those things also, he seems like the type

 

[Lord Alyx]

Ok this is a thread about airships and we were discussing some mechanics used in a campaign to prevent the player from easily destroying a structure or structures, well lets get back to that

 

[Zepher]

Good point

 

[Lord Alyx]

@Zepher you like the (newer) tower/castle anti-storm mechanic

 

[Zepher]

Its interesting, I was thinking why you guys didn't just give the castle multiple regeneration bonus abilities and have one removed each time a tower is leveled, that way there would really be no way to wipe out the castle before the towers are destroyed

 

[Raydin]

That's a pretty effective idea. The structure would never get destroyed unless the towers were done

 

[Zepher]

That's a pretty effective idea. The structure would never get destroyed unless the towers were done

Precisely my point, with high armor the structure would just be hard to destroy if the structure actually regenerates large amounts of health it would be almost impossible

 

[Raydin]

You, all it needs is a shield buff around the structure to make it looks like it has a regenerative aura

 

[Zepher]

Big bad voodoo caster aura, the more towers you destroy the fainter it gets, I'm talking about increasing its transparency proportionally with each tower leveled

 

[Raydin]

Isn't that red in color?

 

[Zepher]

Ye, but color is really irrelevant in this matter

 

[Raydin]

There's a yellow aura of sanctuary or something that would look better for this concept, or alternitively you could use the rejuvination buff

 

[Zepher]

I'll look through the editor for appropriate bluffs a bit later, but you may be right

 

[Raydin]

Yellow and/or green buffs just seem more appropriate in this case

 

[Zepher]

It depends on how the buff "fits" or appears around the castle

 

[Raydin]

Wait how would u get this done? I think the buff can only be anchored to the origin, this would make whatever buff you're trying to use look really weird

 

[Zepher]

No, don't attach the shield as an aura, duplicate a doodad or a destructible and use whatever buff you want as the model and place it so it overlaps with the castle perfectly, you may need to adjust height with shift+up, but make it look clean at the end, then for every tower or whatever destroyed adjust the visibility (increasing the transparency proportionally)

 

[noob]

Doodads can not be changed so if you want the thing to disappear when the building dies use a destructible.

 

[Zepher]

Guess you're right, Im no expert at the editor, just know how to use it and get creative here and there, but the latest patch pretty much ruined modding for everyone, gotta mod using older, much more stable versions of warcraft III

 

[Zepher]

@-Phoenix-

So continuing from the other conversation, how did you do it? was it a special trigger system or was there some sort of hidden trick??

 

[Rem]

Guess you're right, Im no expert at the editor, just know how to use it and get creative here and there, but the latest patch pretty much ruined modding for everyone, gotta mod using older, much more stable versions of warcraft III

this is soooo true, I think the stables was 1.27 and the ones before it. rarely experienced a problem when using the editor with these

 

[Lord Alyx]

@-Phoenix-

So continuing from the other conversation, how did you do it? was it a special trigger system or was there some sort of hidden trick??

I'll give you a hint: Gameplay Constants

 

[Zepher]

You modified fortified armor to reduce damage from magic and piercing to none?

 

[Lord Alyx]

You got part of it right, but modifying fortified armor to take no damage from those two attack types would drastically alter the game-play so no. Look at how else you could get the same result, think about it, and then answer.