A Floodgate for the current flood of maps?

[Zelda.Alex]

Currently the map section is being flooded by low quality maps & a lot of users (anyone who goes in there) is saying that the situation is worsening day by day & there needs to be a solution for that thing. I had a solution in mind & would like to discuss if it can be applied or not.

1.....We can create a different forum where all new submitted maps go when they are uploaded in map section.
2......Here the mini-moderators can see their quality. If the quality gets too low (like is happening in here a lot) the mini-moderators be allowed to reject them.
3......The maps which get passed by mini-moderators get into the maps section.

By mini-moderator I am not saying just any random user. I am referring to people like Septimus + map mini-jury whose can tell if a map can be rejected without any debate.

That way the flood of maps which do not have details or all the crappy maps can be stopped from getting into the maps section.

Of course there may be need of changes in this idea.

What do you guys think of this idea?

 

[M4stah]

So another map section where everybody can moderate? I understand the problem of low quality maps, but some users improve the maps with the mods advice. Also, a low quality map is easy to pick out by playing it 5-10 minutes, improper description or just opening it in WE

 

[Zelda.Alex]

I am not saying another map section. Nor I am saying where everyone can moderate.

I am saying that to maintain the quality of the map section the submitted maps go to a different place & only Mini-Moderators be allowed to reject the maps without details, alpha maps, etc.

The map section is being flooded by crappy maps as has been noticed. Something is needed before the users make an opinion that Hive's map section is nearly crap.

 

[Zombie]

This is issue has been discussed over and over again. There's a section that anyone can moderate and is passed by every map that gets approved, it's called "Pending Maps". Here, anyone can review the maps and the moderation can decide if they want to take the mini-moderation into account or ignore it. A whole new section where anyone can moderate would be senseless, as not all unoffical reviews can be trusted, and we'd need moderators to overview them. There you go: We're at appointing new moderators again, who could easily review maps themselves. Not to take into account that they also need to test the map to decide if the mini moderation was satisfactory.

I don't think the maps section is getting too badly flooded either. Of course, there are 400 maps pending, which is not good, but a few months ago, it was the double. Sure, I still support the idea of promoting new map moderators, but who?

 

[Septimus]

Actually, we once allowed only approve map to be visible at the front pages. Unfortunately, those illiterate user would often post a thread saying "Why my map doesn't show after I upload" without having any acknowledge to click "Pending Map"

 

[Zelda.Alex]

This is issue has been discussed over and over again. There's a section that anyone can moderate and is passed by every map that gets approved, it's called "Pending Maps". Here, anyone can review the maps and the moderation can decide if they want to take the mini-moderation into account or ignore it. A whole new section where anyone can moderate would be senseless, as not all unoffical reviews can be trusted, and we'd need moderators to overview them. There you go: We're at appointing new moderators again, who could easily review maps themselves. Not to take into account that they also need to test the map to decide if the mini moderation was satisfactory.

I don't think the maps section is getting too badly flooded either. Of course, there are 400 maps pending, which is not good, but a few months ago, it was the double. Sure, I still support the idea of promoting new map moderators, but who?

I am not saying that anyone can moderate in the section. I said mini-moderators. The people in Map mini Jury & others like Septimus.

Also I am not suggesting that it is for reviewing process. It is for rejection process mainly to stop the maps which are totally crappy from entering the map section.

The map section is not being flooded you say. Did you see the 9 maps of campaign & the stream of Just Another Warcraft map in it?

A new map moderator? How about Septimus? He is already active in the map section. If only he were a map moderator the situation will be better.

 

[Gilles]

Isn't this what we have already?

 

[Pyritie]

A new map moderator? How about Septimus? He is already active in the map section. If only he were a map moderator the situation will be better.

He used to be one but his english skills are kinda lacking. Ask rui if you want more info.

 

[Zelda.Alex]

Isn't this what we have already?

Please explain a bit.

 

[Gilles]

We have the unapproved status. Then we have mini-moderators (or we used to/still can) that flag maps for moderators to approve. Then there are the approved resources.

 

[Zombie]

I am not saying that anyone can moderate in the section. I said mini-moderators. The people in Map mini Jury & others like Septimus.

Your proposal was rather unclear, as anyone can mini-moderate in the current system. If you want the mini-moderation back, I'd like to point out that there have been proposals to re-estabish mini-moderatorship, but they always failed for apparent reasons.

Also I am not suggesting that it is for reviewing process. It is for rejection process mainly to stop the maps which are totally crappy from entering the map section.

It could work out if a mini-moderator crew was recruited, but that will not happen. Also, if a map is that crappy, our moderation is able to reject it in a matter of seconds. Appointing new staff members would be unnecessary.

The map section is not being flooded you say. Did you see the 9 maps of campaign & the stream of Just Another Warcraft map in it?

What? I didn't say it was not flooded. I was merely stating that it's better than before, due to the promotion of certain map moderators. Also, I failed to detect any "Just another Warcraft III maps" that weren't rejected.

A new map moderator? How about Septimus? He is already active in the map section. If only he were a map moderator the situation will be better.

Septimus certainly aids the work of our map moderation, but as pointed out above, his lacking English knowledge is a major drawback. Still, he is able to serve as a major help for our moderators, they listen to his advice and correct his mistakes. I believe he is a very good helper without an offical status. I'd personally like to see Ash back in the lines of the map moderation crew.

 

[Septimus]

He used to be one but his english skills are kinda lacking. Ask rui if you want more info.

Yeah, my English are kinda lacking. Even though Rui demote me under the reason of Map Moderation Team going through a reformation, I think the actual reason would probably be my English.

Septimus certainly aids the work of our map moderationship, but as pointed out above, his lacking English knowledge is a major drawback. Still, he is able to serve as a major help for our moderators, they listen to his advice and correct his mistakes. I believe he is a very good helper without an offical status.

It doesn't matter if I am mod or not as long as we have 1 hyper active mod to maintain the section. If we do not have such a mod, then I would start rattling Rui till he find 1 to do the dirty job.

 

[busterkomo]

The problem wouldn't exist if we had a use for mini-mods, or just more map moderation happening. Rui and Bount_Hunter2 are doing a fantastic job as it is, but the behemoth amount of maps that are uploaded daily is bound to discourage them at some point. I'd like to re-instate a point I made in a similar thread regarding the current use of mini-mods:

At one point I used to review and give my recommendation to 1-2 maps everyday. I even re-evaluated my review template a few times in the process. I've been reviewing less and less after realizing how insignificant effect a user without map moderation powers really makes. Moderators only seem to take recommendations for approval into account when several reviews are done upon the same map. I chose to review maps that had not yet been reviewed to spread the mini-mods' feedback across as many members as possible. Without the support of any other mini-moderators, I was unable to do much to help the map section.

 

[Zelda.Alex]

Your proposal was rather unclear, as anyone can mini-moderate in the current system. If you want the mini-moderation back, I'd like to point out that there have been proposals to re-estabish mini-moderatorship, but they always failed for apparent reasons.

Forgive me. Just like Septimus my English is not very good. Also what are the reasons for failing of mini-moderatorship?

What? I didn't say it was not flooded. I was merely stating that it's better than before, due to the promotion of certain map moderators. Also, I failed to detect any "Just another Warcraft III maps" that weren't rejected.

Again Sorry. I misunderstood you. The Just Another Warcraft Maps were rejected soon but what I was saying is that there have been many such floodings in the map section which I noticed & they are creating a negative impression on some users regarding the hive's map section. That is basically I suggested this.

Septimus certainly aids the work of our map moderation, but as pointed out above, his lacking English knowledge is a major drawback. Still, he is able to serve as a major help for our moderators, they listen to his advice and correct his mistakes. I believe he is a very good helper without an offical status. I'd personally like to see Ash back in the lines of the map moderation crew.

I haven't seen Ash's moderation much but I can tell one thing that he isn't going to come back. I had talked with him a little & he had told that he resigned 3 times.

At one point I used to review and give my recommendation to 1-2 maps everyday. I even re-evaluated my review template a few times in the process. I've been reviewing less and less after realizing how insignificant effect a user without map moderation powers really makes. Moderators only seem to take recommendations for approval into account when several reviews are done upon the same map. I chose to review maps that had not yet been reviewed to spread the mini-mods' feedback across as many members as possible. Without the support of any other mini-moderators, I was unable to do much to help the map section.

I can make a suggestion. Create a group of invite only status. Invite the mini-moderators & ask them subscribe to the discussion & whenever you review a map or anyone of them review just make a new post instead of editing earlier so they get notified. That just might help.

 

[Devine]

I say we make a temporary mod squad with some experienced mapmakers.
Clean the map section up for good.
Punish the noobs that spam the section very hard so they will think again before they submit crap.
After that, leave the mapsection to the original squad.
face it, Iet be de onili wai.

 

[Septimus]

Punish the noobs that spam the section very hard so they will think again before they submit crap.

It depends.

If multiple upload, invalid author/map name or does not contain proper description (YES)
Follow rules but poor quality (NO)

 

[Zelda.Alex]

I say we make a temporary mod squad with some experienced mapmakers.

We will be needing experienced reviewers instead of map makers.

Punish the noobs that spam the section very hard so they will think again before they submit crap.

If they break rules like deleting & re-upload the resources then they are given neg-rep but for low quality maps I think giving punishment will be just silly.

 

[Airandius]

I can't believe this, there is a shortage of mods in the sections. Yet Septimus gets demoted because his English is a bit below average?

I suggest making a squad of trustworthy people including people with bad English and have them moderate the maps fast, and if they are crappy remove them.
As a second addition have somebody that Septimus knows fix his bad English, without changing the content of his message.
Next remove any pending maps that are older then a month.
People may resubmit them if they want.
Remove any map scoring low.
Don't show pending maps unless people check it, if people complain they should check the new rules.
For that matter show a message to people when the upload is complete that it wont be visible unless people check that option.

Don't give comments: this has been suggested before and crap. It needs changing think about a neglected animal, yes, the map section is like a neglected animal.
It needs attention and food, but if you keep saying: I'll do it later. The animal will eventually die. (Meaning that the map section is total crap.)

Bring this "neglected animal" to the "vet" apply some heavy rules and delete lot's of crap, even if it's just for a month so the "animal" can restore to a proper condition.
You get it?

Just a few simple things that don't take longer then a good week will fix the problems, but you'll have to do something for it.

- Airandius

 

[Zelda.Alex]

As a second addition have somebody that Septimus knows fix his bad English, without changing the content of his message.

I don't think that will be possible. Just my opinion.

Next remove any pending maps that are older then a month.

That will be unacceptable. Removing maps because they are old is definitely not in the map submission rules. The moderators are trying to review the pending maps.
Also what will happen to those maps whose creators may not be active on the site?

Remove any map scoring low.

Ratings by the users are not used by the moderators for approval/disapproval because then it will be unfair if some downrater makes the rating low.

Don't show pending maps unless people check it, if people complain they should check the new rules.

If the pending maps are not shown then who will rate them? Also this idea was voted against before as due to this pending map got neglected.

Don't give comments: this has been suggested before and crap. It needs changing think about a neglected animal, yes, the map section is like a neglected animal.
It needs attention and food, but if you keep saying: I'll do it later. The animal will eventually die. (Meaning that the map section is total crap.)

Bring this "neglected animal" to the "vet" apply some heavy rules and delete lot's of crap, even if it's just for a month so the "animal" can restore to a proper condition.
You get it?

The map section is being attended to. Few months ago the pending map was 1000 now 400. See it is being attended to. The thing that needs to be looked at is if there is a way to increase the speed properly.

Just a few simple things that don't take longer then a good week will fix the problems, but you'll have to do something for it.

The map deletions will raise a hell on the site after that week. People will start complaining in the admin contact, site discussion everywhere.

 

[Airandius]

I don't think that will be possible. Just my opinion.

I could do it, no problem. His English isn't all that bad. My spelling is crap, but thanks to firefox it's corrected. And my grammar is rather good depending on my mood. I just don't know him, and they have no way to tell if I would change the content. Even if I promise I'll do a good job.

That will be unacceptable. Removing maps because they are old is definitely not in the map submission rules. The moderators are trying to review the pending maps.
Also what will happen to those maps whose creators may not be active on the site?

Only delete the old pending maps, not approved maps.
And if they ain't active on the site, they wont care anyway.
They most likely have their own site with the map on it.
Or stopped mapping.

Ratings by the users are not used by the moderators for approval/disapproval because then it will be unfair if some downrater makes the rating low.

I was talking about the rating the mods give the map, if it's lower or equal to 2.0 then it will be removed unless the map is fixed within a week.

If the pending maps are not shown then who will rate them? Also this idea was voted against before as due to this pending map got neglected.
The map section is being attended to. Few months ago the pending map was 1000 now 400. See it is being attended to. The thing that needs to be looked at is if there is a way to increase the speed properly.

Well, then not. And sure the pending maps might decrease. But the high amount of crappy maps does not decrease as they are already approved.
They should be removed, not to free up space. But because nobody will play them anyway.

The map deletions will raise a hell on the site after that week. People will start complaining in the admin contact, site discussion everywhere.

Or just add a button, owners can click it and it won't get removed.
But if they don't do it, bad luck.

You should not be soft to people that create stupid content. Also counts for spells and models.
If it sucks, it sucks. Remove it so our eyes don't have to bleed.

If they made something they should first have it as an attachment in the forums (beta testing w/e) and if it's good you can try uploading it.

 

[Zelda.Alex]

Only delete the old pending maps, not approved maps.
And if they ain't active on the site, they wont care anyway.
They most likely have their own site with the map on it.
Or stopped mapping.

I got that you were talking of pending maps but still I don't see how the Admin will accept that.

I was talking about the rating the mods give the map, if it's lower or equal to 2.0 then it will be removed unless the map is fixed within a week.

Rating lower than 2 = rejection. This actually is in the rules.

Rating 2 = Disapproval/Approval depends on the mod who is reviewing + status of the map + author's willingness of improving or not. Taking care of all these factors the status is decided.

Or just add a button, owners can click it and it won't get removed.
But if they don't do it, bad luck.

Meaning? Please explain.

You should not be soft to people that create stupid content. Also counts for spells and models.
If it sucks, it sucks. Remove it so our eyes don't have to bleed.

I am no one for making decisions. It is mods + Admin who decide.
Also by the first sentence do you mean they should be given negrep for uploading material which is not up to mark? I don't think there exists a punishment for stupidity in the real world & I doubt that same will not happen in here. Of course if the people re-upload time & again the same material they are given negrep but definetly not on first upload.

If they made something they should first have it as an attachment in the forums (beta testing w/e) and if it's good you can try uploading it.

Many do. Many don't. It depends on the person.

 

[Airandius]

Meaning? Please explain.

If they decide to remove any pending map older then 'x' months, they could add a button at the map.
The owner of the map can click it in order for the map not to be removed.

This will clear maps uploaded by people that aren't active any more.
Because they wont care/know anyway.

I am no one for making decisions. It is mods + Admin who decide.
Also by the first sentence do you mean they should be given negrep for uploading material which is not up to mark? I don't think there exists a punishment for stupidity in the real world & I doubt that same will not happen in here. Of course if the people re-upload time & again the same material they are given negrep but definetly not on first upload.

Many do. Many don't. It depends on the person.

Do people here still value some little integer? It's sad, negrep or w/e you want to call it is something most sane people would not care about.
It does not hinder you in anyway, that's why I like forums where rep is removed, anyway....
A punishment is something like: week ban or something.

But if they upload a shitty map they should just get a pm, your map is shit so learn how to make better. Second time is short ban. And will increase the more you post crappy maps.

Crappy maps belong in the project forum part. Where people can put their map in a thread where people may download and test play + give feedback. But many people don't know that.

 

[WraithSeeker]

Actually, where did new director's cut maps go? I rarely see them nowadays.

Maybe you should add that new users who registered can't submit a map for 16 days and after that they are allowed and they require at least 5-10 rep.

Make it also so that the name of the map cannot be Just Another Warcraft 3 map.

Make sure that a screenshot appears in the icon.

Remove maps after 1-2 weeks that are pending and inactive. I'm sure the user is gone or something and then if they wanted to revive it, just PM a map moderator with the new updates and do it again.

 

[Airandius]

Again with the rep.
Sorry people but rep requirements are stupid and should not be used. Here is why:

- Some people come to this site only to upload not to chat in forums to get rep.
- Rep does not show if you are good at mapmaking or not. You could have 320 rep and still suck.
- Rep is gained as easy as making a funny joke that people like.
- Did I say it was stupid? People that care about rep are sad, it is what makes this entire site racist. You don't have rep? You suck and we wont help you 9/10 cases.

And 1 - 2 weeks of pending is to short, as moderators take longer to stamp maps with approve of disapprove.

 

[WraithSeeker]

1 to 2 weeks might be abit too fast, how about 2-3 weeks? Seems reasonable enough.

(Replying to Rep) Say how many newbies had more then 10 rep? The problem is with those who just register to upload their maps without getting used to the site and most of them are just spammers.

2)Rep at least prevent more spam.

3)Rep is gained so easily? Not quite.

4) Tell me how many useful users who has 0 to 10 rep?

 

[Airandius]

1 to 2 weeks might be abit too fast, how about 2-3 weeks? Seems reasonable enough.

(Replying to Rep) Say how many newbies had more then 10 rep? The problem is with those who just register to upload their maps without getting used to the site and most of them are just spammers.

2)Rep at least prevent more spam.

3)Rep is gained so easily? Not quite.

4) Tell me how many useful users who has 0 to 10 rep?

Go to map section, do a random search. I'm sure you'll find a bunch of average/good maps made by people with only 10 posts and 2 rep idk.
Same for models.

And yes, gaining rep is easy, most reps I got were random reps for example lol.

 

[Zelda.Alex]

If they decide to remove any pending map older then 'x' months, they could add a button at the map.
The owner of the map can click it in order for the map not to be removed.

This will clear maps uploaded by people that aren't active any more.
Because they wont care/know anyway.

Still it will be unfair to remove maps of the people who are not active anymore.

Do people here still value some little integer? It's sad, negrep or w/e you want to call it is something most sane people would not care about.
It does not hinder you in anyway, that's why I like forums where rep is removed, anyway....
A punishment is something like: week ban or something.

I don't care about the rep count either. I was asking you if you meant it.
A ban for a low quality map? Forgive me but this is going too silly.

But if they upload a shitty map they should just get a pm, your map is shit so learn how to make better. Second time is short ban. And will increase the more you post crappy maps.

First sentence is flaming which is against the rules. About ban. If the same map is uploaded many times it may be considered. For different maps I will have to say again it will be silly if an admin actually did that.

Crappy maps belong in the project forum part. Where people can put their map in a thread where people may download and test play + give feedback. But many people don't know that.

I agree here. When I rate any map 1/5 then I always give them a link to map development section & I have seen many people go there. But that does not work always.

Actually, where did new director's cut maps go? I rarely see them nowadays.

Please explain.

Maybe you should add that new users who registered can't submit a map for 16 days and after that they are allowed and they require at least 5-10 rep.

rep count has been voted against many times. Airandius already explained why.

Make it also so that the name of the map cannot be Just Another Warcraft 3 map.

Agreed but not very helpful as people can just change the name.

Make sure that a screenshot appears in the icon.

Please explain.

Remove maps after 1-2 weeks that are pending and inactive. I'm sure the user is gone or something and then if they wanted to revive it, just PM a map moderator with the new updates and do it again.

I already said that is not proper.

(Replying to Rep) Say how many newbies had more then 10 rep? The problem is with those who just register to upload their maps without getting used to the site and most of them are just spammers.

2)Rep at least prevent more spam.

3)Rep is gained so easily? Not quite.

4) Tell me how many useful users who has 0 to 10 rep?

Try talking about rep. This is the easiest way for rep gain & I have seen many users get that. Anyway rep has already been voted against to be the basis of anything on the site by the Admin already.

 

[WraithSeeker]

Well for me, I didn't get any rep. It's obvious isn't it lol.

I'm sure THW wants more quality over quantity of average maps. The rep issue can be changed to amount of posts as well, I'm sure if someone wanted to submit a quality one, they would interact abit more with the site and not just submit it and go.

THW should take more quality, here is some part from wc3c rules

After a period of time extending no more than 48 hours after a moderator offers a review, a map without a response in it by the author may be sent to the graveyard. It is not necessary for a map to be updated within the 48 hours, only that the author respond to the reviewer and at the very least acknowledge the review.

Any map submitted must be created by the submitting user or with clear, valid permission from the creator. There is absolutely no tolerance for breaches of this rule.

Specify the maximum number of players for your map in the map title as follows: "(12) Treasure Runners"

Offensively bad maps will be removed without a warning and the author will receive a private message stating the reasons for removal. Reasons for this type of removal may include, but are not limited to, violation of copyrights, thievery, very low quality, unplayability, major imbalance, exploits, and offensive content.

No cloned maps. Your map must innovate, not copy. This does not mean that you have to invent a new genre, but don't simply copy another map with a few additions.

No WIP maps. We realize that it is difficult to actually finish a map and that even those maps that are 'finished' are bound to be updated at a future date, but we are interested in at least completed work. Maps must be at least at a 70% completion stage, they must be fully playable, and all of the planned features must be implemented. If what you really want is testers for your map, then the Map Testing forum is where you should post your map.

Decently balanced maps. Perhaps a perfectly balanced map is impossible to create, but we certainly don't want any maps whose authors don't make their most valiant effort at accomplishing this.

Credits included in the map. This is a modding and resource site, we know how difficult and time-consuming it is to make a model/texture/icon/sound/spell/whatever. We demand that you respect the people that contributed resources to your map by including them in the map's credits. These credits can be located anywhere in your map (Quest log is typical), but they must be easily accessible by anyone that wants to read them.

No material from other games is permitted except in the following cases. If the company has released the material explicitly for Warcraft III Maps, then it is okay to use them in your map. (Blizzard released WoW icons in BLP format, for instance) Heavily modified material from other games may be permissible on a case-by-case basis. Please note that this rule is not here to promote the use of community-produced resources, but rather to respect a company's intellectual property.

If you don't want to remove the map, then send it to the graveyard after 1-2 week if the map is inactive.

Director cut's map is recently seen nowadays, thats what I said.

Instead of a ban for a low quality one, the user should just be banned for submitting maps for a few days.

It is fair to remove maps of people who aren't active whose map is pending.

 

[Hakeem]

By mini-moderator I am not saying just any random user. I am referring to people like Septimus + map mini-jury whose can tell if a map can be rejected without any debate.

if a map is that crappy, our moderation is able to reject it in a matter of seconds.

This.