2nd school shooting in Finland in less than a year

[Tyranid]

The 2nd school shooting in Finland (in less than a year) happened today (23.9.08) in the vocational college of Kauhajoki. 11 people were killed (including the shooter who shot himself), and there is 1 person who is still injured.

The first school shooting happened in Jokela in November 7, 2007. 8 people (including the shooter who shot himself) died in Jokela.

The Kauhajoki School Shooting was more than likely a copycat of the Jokela shooting.

 

[annoying]

That is horrible indeed. But you know, Finland is a country were the guns are common, and easy for young people to get. You'd think that these shootings would get the government to realize that they need more laws...

 

[ArneXis]

Schools are becoming like a gathering point for psychos...

 

[Tyranid]

That is horrible indeed. But you know, Finland is a country were the guns are common, and easy for young people to get. You'd think that these shootings would get the government to realize that they need more laws...

The reason for the guns being common is because hunting is a popular sport in Finland.

I do not want people to start thinking that Finland "PsychoLand", quite contrary, it's a really safe country. However there are high depression rates and in my opinnion that is the most likely cause for these shootings.

 

[annoying]

Yeah. That, and all the guns. The combination is really dangerous.

 

[Tyranid]

Yeah. That, and all the guns. The combination is really dangerous.

Well, after Jokela School Shooting, people did think about gun control alot. However most came into the conclusion that it wouldn't work. People could still get their hands on guns very easily.

And still, school shooting are VERY rare in Finland. Thus far, there has been only 3 school shootings in the whole history of Finland.

However, I fear that Jokela and now Kauhajoki will inspire the psychos to go copycatting.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

We finnish people are crazy!

 

[Huurka]

Indeed.

 

[The Last Istari]

I think the reason everyone's getting as many as they are is because of all the publicity.

Remember how the US acted towards Vtech? How the news wouldn't shut up about it? My personal opinion is that the suicidal people saw all the publicity the Vtech shooting got, thought they'd get noticed that much too, thus, rampage.

 

[annoying]

We finnish people are crazy!

Yeah. Too bad I live in Sweden, you psychos are gonna invade soon, aren't ya'?


Well, back on-topic, agree with Istari. The wierd thing is: why would people care about publicity, if they were going to kill themselves? To quote Magnus Uggla: "Why kill yourself when you can't here the talk about it?"

 

[kewlthis]

Its indeed scary in here. Why arent the immigrants scared?!(they might not even go to schools tought)

 

[The Last Istari]

Usually because the shooters were 'bullied' a lot + depression.

They saw how on TV, the Vtech guy (forget his name), instead of being made out to be a nut (which he was), he was made out to be this trouble boy and that the bullies, who probably shoved him against the wall and made jokes about his mother at worst, were the bad guys and the villians. Everyone sympathized with the nut. The future shooters get the mindset that that's what'll happen to them to when they're gone.

 

[Sansui]

The finland shooting has nothing to do with vtech.(can't blame USA for this one guys)

This act is also extremely rare and was a copycat act. The only thing to blame for this act is giving a gun to an unstable person, low security in said school.(he walked in with a black ski mask and huge duffel bag)

It is a tragedy but one that can be avoided by not immortalizing these people.
"I'd rather be infamous and dead than not remembered at all" Many people will not admit that but it is one way to achieve immortality.(vastly easier than being famous for something good as well)

Also IMO it has nothing to do with bullying, bullying has always existed. However this whole pc everyone wins shit has not. Notice how the decline of parenting and competition has increased the amount of violence you see from these "bullied" kids because they are not used to having to fight to win they are used to everything being given to them. And that is the true cause of modern problems(which viloence is in a decline).

ps. If everyone had guns or the school had armed guards the event would have never happened.


Granted people will always snap and kill people with guns or not.(bus beheading, baseball bat homicides, hell bare fist murders, stomping) Murderers will always exist.

 

[Voidwalker]

Schools are becoming like a gathering point for psychos...

They've always been. In fact, schools are were psychos are made.

 

[Newuser]

Usually because the shooters were 'bullied' a lot + depression.

They saw how on TV, the Vtech guy (forget his name), instead of being made out to be a nut (which he was), he was made out to be this trouble boy and that the bullies, who probably shoved him against the wall and made jokes about his mother at worst, were the bad guys and the villians. Everyone sympathized with the nut. The future shooters get the mindset that that's what'll happen to them to when they're gone.

Yeah, probably, the media needs to handle these things better. Your example is shown in this article.

The article says "True, someone who is severely disturbed might want to better Cho’s “record” — but that does not mean that if his video were kept off the airwaves that person would not find other provocation. If only.".

Of course "some" may find other provocation to do things like mass suicides, but that doesn't mean that if they didn't show the footage or if someone didn't write an article like that, it wouldn't have reduced the amount of "potential" copycat suicides like that, because if they didn't post articles like that or show videos like that, it would reduce it(at least, according to scientific research and evidence).

Why post articles like that? Why show demented ramblings? What if a person decided to send a very bad video to some news station, they'd decide "well, lets post it on TV so everyone can find this very education and informative".

(BTW, I actually had something for bad but I decided it's not best to post what my example was since it might be a little "over the top" example).

It's a really silly argument for people(like the poster of the article and the comments in the article) to say things like "the public needs to see videos like that, because we're the news, we have to post it". And also look at the comments of the article. "Well, if they don't post videos like that, then people will live in ignorance.

My response: No, people do not need to see videos like that. Should people be informed of the mass shooting? Yes. Should people be informed of the specific details on why he did it and how he did it, and what's his strategy on suceeding with his plan? No.

There's already a significant scientific evidence that supports "copycat suicides". We don't need to spread it out by posting unneeded things like that or putting the shooter in a good light.

Copycat suicides on wikipedia.

Also, they(media) are not doing a good job by showing the shooter with a gun, pointing at a camera "looking cool".

They seriously need to replace that picture.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

You know..

I think Finland has a sort of schoolmasacre cult or something...

First one - November 7, 2007.
Second one - September 23, 2008.
Third one? - August 20, 2009? (Little guess)

 

[Urlock]

I think the solution is to crack down on psychopaths instead of guns. The police did investigate this guy the day before the shooting; but they could not do anything about it.Considering the videos and other content he posted on the web; they should have been able to suspend his gun rights.

The laws should be changed to: You post internet death threats or show general violent/hateful acts on the net? Investigate, find out more about this person, suspend his gun rights if he has any. He can get them back if a medical doctor declares him sane.

I am all for gun rights - but not for the use of psychopaths.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Guns should be banned from normal people. Only for army use.

Or perhaps, gun should be not made anymore? Not more wars, etc.

 

[Urlock]

Or perhaps, gun should be not made anymore? Not more wars, etc.

Let us say it were magically possible to make all guns worldwide magically vanish. You still have axes, knives, bows and arrows, slings, swords, clubs, bats, fists, etc. Wars have been going on since all of recorded history and probably before that; guns were only started to be used around the mid twelve century (or sometime around that period, unsure about this). You would still have wars; probably with more casualties since more men would be needed in the battlefield.

Further, guns are an equalizer. Just about anyone can learn to handle a gun, so if a thug tries to overpower you through force for instance you stand a chance. Handguns make excellent self-defense weapons for this reason, and it has been shown statistically areas with high gun rates have low crime rates. The downside is they make committing atrocities like this easy; so a certain level of gun control does need to be enforced.

Taking away guns would also regress hunting. Millions of hunters worldwide use guns for the sport and do not use them for criminal activity.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

Yeah, you are right. I can only wish things like this would happen someday. However, this at least won't ever happen.

+rep for your excellent answer.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Guns are an excellent self defense weapon against unarmed attackers.

I don't get this about Finland. Yes is a country with rich hunting tradition. But then, what are the pistols doing here? You probably don't hunt with a pistol, do you? Even I never hunted, I don't think I could ever kill an animal from 100 meters with a pistol. In Finland then should be a law to be able to have only hunting rifles and shotguns without special procedures.

 

[Tyranid]

Guns are an excellent self defense weapon against unarmed attackers.

I don't get this about Finland. Yes is a country with rich hunting tradition. But then, what are the pistols doing here? You probably don't hunt with a pistol, do you? Even I never hunted, I don't think I could ever kill an animal from 100 meters with a pistol. In Finland then should be a law to be able to have only hunting rifles and shotguns without special procedures.

In Finland we have an ages old hunting tradition where a teenage boy must catch a deer (by running), then bring the animal down and then shoot it in the neck 17 times with a pistol.

By the way I'm totally pulling your leg.

 

[Aeroblyctos]

In Finland we have an ages old hunting tradition where a teenage boy must catch a deer (by running), then bring the animal down and then shoot it in the neck 17 times with a pistol.

By the way I'm totally pulling your leg.

Eeh? I'm from Finland and I have never heard of that.

Where in Finland you are actually from? Can I guess, lapland?

 

[Septimus]

I rather have machine gun instead of pistol if i want to fight against my enemy at mid range.

As for close range, shotgun is the best.

Far ? Sniper, what else ?

I think that allowing a teacher armed with machine gun would prevent it. As a enemy armed with pistol hardly have enough chances to defeat shotgun from close range and machine gun from mid range.

 

[Masiah]

It was just my birthday present. Sometimes, individuals are pushed so far that they explode. At that point, nothing matters to that individual, so I think this is as likely to happen with a gun like with a katana/coctel molotov/sucidal car/ whatever. The solution is not destroying the ways, the solution is solving the initial problem.

Furthermore... check the general human history: it has been writen by wars. If you want to stop them, destroy humanity. It's the only way... violence is in the deepest of human nature, I fear.

 

[Sansui]

I rather have machine gun instead of pistol if i want to fight against my enemy at mid range.

As for close range, shotgun is the best.

Far ? Sniper, what else ?

I think that allowing a teacher armed with machine gun would prevent it. As a enemy armed with pistol hardly have enough chances to defeat shotgun from close range and machine gun from mid range.

Pistols are small, accurate, light, cheap, rapid fire rates.
Try using a shotty in a tight enclosed are and you will be fucked.

Also pistols have much faster rate of fire than a shotgun.
Sub machine guns, and most full autos are usually expensive, inaccurate on full auto(unless they are longer), kick like a bitch, illegal in most areas due to rate of fire.




Side note, pistols are used in shooting competitions and hunting.

 

[Voidwalker]

If you want to stop them, destroy humanity. It's the only way... violence is in the deepest of human nature, I fear.

Sounds fair enough to me.

 

[Septimus]

The main reason why human kill one another is because of lust, revenge and desire.

 

[Masiah]

And for every reason and for none at all.

 

[Septimus]

Killing a person without reason are usually done by those who lost their head somewhere in the jungle.

I think if the law of the country permit those teacher to be armed with machine gun, it might eventually prevent this situation from occur.

 

[Technomancer]

So what, the teacher has a machine gun. A pistol + good aim + the element of surprise will win out in the end. It just makes the teacher the first to go down.

 

[The Last Istari]

Yeah, but they usually don't shoot the teacher first. It's usually the people who pissed the nut off who get shot first.

 

[Hakeem]

Usually there isn't anybody else with a gun that they have to worry about.

 

[Mor)L(unE]

Killing a person without reason are usually done by those who lost their head somewhere in the jungle.

I think if the law of the country permit those teacher to be armed with machine gun, it might eventually prevent this situation from occur.

Killing a person with a "reason"is ussually done by those lost their minds too.. there simply ain't a reason to kill a person unless he is going to kill you

 

[Dreadnought[dA]]

School shootings are caused by liberal parents who tell their kids that they shouldn't let people make fun of them. When they try and stop people making fun of them (A futile effort) and they fail, then they turn emo. After turning emo, people make fun of them more and soon they gain hatred of everybody around them because almost nobody likes emos except other emos. Then BOOM! Something snaps in their mind, they whip out a gun, and 10 people are shot before they finally kill themselves. The point of this story? Parents are teaching their kids to be little weaklings who can't take a beating and stand back up. Schools are teaching this too with all of this anti-bully harassment when really what they are doing is creating pathetic beings who take offense to everything. Kind of like how Russians think everybody is out to get them...

 

[Mechanical Man]

I wonder how many students took his threats seriously and didn't come to school.

 

[Masiah]

Dreadnought, is your solution: "Go ahead, let the strongest survive"? Darwin would be proud of you.
I am not an emo and I have emo friends, so no, your point is not exact. Emos (most of them) are just the continuing of romanticism, a branch of the poets of that time, people who prefer feelings to logic. Being an "emotive" isn't something negative if taken in good measure, it's just a few attention craving individuals pretending to be emo without even knowing what the word means that spoil the word by acting like retrds, which usually ends up with the finding of one of these dead in a closed restroom with a cut wrist and a spoon in the other hand.

 

[Voidwalker]