✅ Texturing Contest #31 - POLL

[Archian]

NOTICE - Murlocologist have withdrawn his entry (Owl Warrior) from this contest. We are currently trying to remove the poll choice from the poll. Everyone who voted for the Owl Warrior skin has been contacted in hopes that they will change their votes.

You are encouraged to check out this video featuring the final entries before casting your vote!
Or see the list below for more details.

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• Trying to manipulate the poll in any form is not allowed.
• Multiple votes are allowed (3 votes in total)
  If you're aware of ip-sharing with any voter, for any reason, you should contact the staff.
• Harassment towards others to influence the result will lead to punishment.
  A neutral recommendation to take part at the poll isn't problematic, though.
• Voting for yourself is not allowed, and will lead to a malus by 5%.
• Participating in the poll does not explicitly safe one from being disqualified.
• Judges may not vote.

You are very welcome to make a short statement what you like the most, so contestants get a bit of public feedback!

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• 1st place: 750 experience points
• 2nd place: 600 experience points
• 3rd place: 450 experience points
• Entry: 150 experience points
• Judge: 25 experience points per entrant

The three winners will receive an award icon representing the winning entry.

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• @PROXY
• @frostwhisper

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Contestant	WRAP / UNWRAP	Entry
Footman16​		Footman Warrior Footman16's Footman Warrior Entry for Hive's Texturing Contest #31 For this contest I decided to take Murlocologist's amazing Spartan Warrior model and turn it into the best unit in all of Warcraft 3: the Footman! This model was fun but also tricky to work with and so I hope I have done the... www.hiveworkshop.com
N/A​	N/A	N/A
Shido​		Sunweaver Genesaur Entry for Hive's Texturing Contest #31 Disclamer: nothing. Behind the scene of Sunweaver Genesaur is located here. Version 1.0 Released Bonus Check out the video that include Sunweaver itself as a cameo. Tags: Solar, Genesaur, Sun, Sun Weaver, Sunweaver, Magnataur, Explobomb www.hiveworkshop.com
PrinceYaser​		Judge of Deeds My entry for Texturing Contest #31. www.hiveworkshop.com
~Nightmare​		K'Nawa Hey there! It's been a while since I last made a texture, over three years to be exact. I'm thrilled to share my latest creation, which I made exclusively for The Hiveworkshop's 31st Texturing Contest. This time, I decided to tackle a humanoid dragon texture, something I've always wanted to try... www.hiveworkshop.com
@Vinz		Blitzworgen Forged from the memory of cities in ash, and the grave of dreams buried alive... this is the tank that howls, "never again." A retexture of @Deolrin and @Kwaliti's excellent Elite Siege Engine - The Übertank. Entry for Texturing Contest #31 - Repurposing. www.hiveworkshop.com
A.R.​		Shadow Council Assassin Entry for Texturing Contest #31 - Repurposing Custom Models. Replaces the texture for Tauer's awesome Garona model. Enjoy! EDIT: Uploaded Ingame Screenshot www.hiveworkshop.com

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When casting your vote, please take the following criteria into consideration before casting your vote.

Shading	Does the unit fit into the WCIII lighting environment? Is the source of light consistent? Does the unit have a realistic 3D shape enhanced by the shading? Is each individual part shaded according to the material?
Concept	Does the design of the unit suit the model it is wrapped on? Has the author come up with creative ways to change parts of the model into something new? Does the unit fit into the style of WCIII?
Details	Does the unit appear blurry and bland in-game? Are the details appropriate and realistically placed? Are the materials in use easily recognized?

Spoiler: Results calculation

FinalScore = (40*Reached_Votes/POSSIBLE_VOTES) + (60*Average_Judge_Score/POSSIBLE_SCORE)

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The poll shall begin on May 31, 2023 and conclude on June 14, 2023 GMT (day is included).

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Assigned Staff: @Archian

Contest | Results

 

[BaiyuGalan]

Voting completed
K'Nawa by ~Nightmare/Footman Warrior by Footman16/Blitzworgen by Vinz

 

[Archian]

@Footman16 @Murlocologist @Shido @PrinceYaser @~Nightmare @Vinz @A.R. Time to vote for your fellow contestants! What a pleasure it was to follow your creative process folks!

@frostwhisper put together this video featuring your artwork, so people can have a better look before deciding which TOP 3 skins to vote for. It's a stiff competition :O

 

[Shido]

I will get a detail about all of them (except my own resource) later in the poll. Everytime I watch Frosty video edit, I have to prepare mentally because the last time he did that, he jumpscared me.

Spoiler: From Merch Contest

Never thought I will get jumpscared by my own entry.
BtW: did i mention that i gotta make daddy archian skin in beach summer month?

 

[PrinceYaser]

Since we don't have any judges, I hope justice will be done while voting. However, the competition is definitely stiff.

 

[Moy]

Oh I didn't know we don't have judging, but oh well it's fine for me (I could've been a judge though). On the other hand, great stuff produced by the contest. This brings back the good thing I am not a reviewer anymore or else the skins section will be flooded with pending skins lmao.

On the other hand, I hope when this wraps up, we can have another contest.

 

[Shido]

This brings back the good thing I am not a reviewer anymore or else the skins section will be flooded with pending skins lmao.

@Footman16 would like to have a word, also A.R should technically be fired now .

 

[Footman16]

Also what happens if there's a tie in the polling lol?

 

[Shido]

Also what happens if there's a tie in the polling lol?

I doubt tie happen since gaps existed.
If it does then they might be judged instead.

Edit: as I typing this, how would you respond if you found out there is a person solely voting for one resource only and not give any resource a chance to compete.
Here's a sneak peak for my voting, If I gotta vote for 3 peoples, I must carry a vaild reason as I willingly give away a point here. Winner decide by poll are stricts reasoning so I have to point out Pros and Cons for everyone.

We should not be disappointed about losing but rather moving forward to make ourselves better. Beside, do you wanna pick winning an award or get a Director Cut for that resource? Perhap you have understand why I like to go on and be prestigeous.

 

[deepstrasz]

Also what happens if there's a tie in the polling lol?

I guess, the other contestants can choose whom to give their own votes to or something.

 

[StormKnight]

This is a pretty cool contest with the entries having alot of effort, but i fully object to forcing flat democracy based public voting.
The Hive contest voting system is not bad, its just that the pieces that are suppose to make it work are missing due to various reasons.

Modifying the system from 70 - 30 (Judge - Public) to 60 - 40 can go a long way to accommodate for potential bias's being shown.

I suggest contests to have different systems based on situation, public voting should only be used if there is absolutely zero way of appropriate judging or if a set deadline end for judging a contest is passed (i dont recall deadlines being a thing but they should be)
60 - 40 should probably be used if there is only 2 judges.
And the classic 70 - 30 can be used if there is 3 or more active judges.

The interesting thing is that Hive does not lack talented people that can provide insight, it just has a problem where the people who can do it dont want to participate and so the duty is then left to either people who've done it so many times they're tired of it, or 1 person which ends up creating suspension of bias. Looking into ways to encourage people to participate in judging or making it a worth-while thing for them to do are genuine solutions worth looking into.

I'm looking at the textures, and unlike previously, i'm extremely conflicted on who to vote for, because previously i was confident that i can simply go with what i prefer because the actual judges are going to take care of the objective parts. now its like having an existential crisis moment just deciding who to vote for which means i wont be voting.

On the flip side, people who CAN vote without a second thought are going to be able to take advantage and just swarm vote.

As it stands i see little reason for the participants of the competition to care about who won. its essentially meaningless. its just a topic, a contest, and entries. Just like how an awkward situation where solo judging can cause people to quit, the same trouble is presented here except now Judges and Hive Staff are not responsible, just the vague public which can't be blamed. a nice evasion.

For the sake of the well being and stable mental health of everyone involved i would suggest to not care about who won because it doesn't matter, the system is not robust enough for it to matter.

So, to end it off, imo creating a contest purely based on public voting is definitely an option, but the option needs be used at the right time instead of being made into a default. (Right time as in 0 judges found or deadline for judges run out [deadlines for judging should totally be a thing])

 

[deepstrasz]

So, to end it off, imo creating a contest purely based on public voting is definitely an option, but the option needs be used at the right time instead of being made into a default. (Right time as in 0 judges found or deadline for judges run out [deadlines for judging should totally be a thing])

I guess, contestant votes could weigh more but assuming every contestant would give the max number of votes in each contest, i.e. take responsibility which you can't or rather shouldn't enforce.

 

[Footman16]

I think I'll write up some feedback and my own opinions once the contest is finished as the range of models and styles on display this contest has been very impressive.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Oh nice, 3 votes.
If I only had 1 it'd be more difficult to choose though I think my boy @Vinz's creation is my
favorite with A.R. and Shido coming close after.
Also liking what Nightmare did there though, that surprising comeback took me, well, by surprise!

 

[Shido]

Alright, i'm not gotta sway people voting right there but if you think you are too doubt with public vote then it's up to our Director uphold a new rule if you need to explain why you vote that person.

How about you also rewarding the voter too, like if you make a reply explain why you vote your choice here. You should get like 25 worth of exp and your vote will be vailded. Explain why you vote this and not that in simple wording is fine here.

For example:

"I vote G B and O because i geniunely think they are topped in this competition, G bring us a new way to look in the same model that out of my expectation, B may look underwhelming but undoubtly a unique design compare to the rest and O texture is so crisp in design that i think even the lowest kind of mind in a gamer will love it. I do geniunely love the design of A because I have soft spot with orcs but I think it could benefit more if metal texture was better, H is lovely but it need more lighting because i couldn't see from a far what is it, maybe this is from my perspective. R look fine but it's probably could have been more ito do if i wanna choose this over original texture"

That one sound more geniune, here's a bad one.

I like P B and J because I think other entry has no ground to beat their design. P always make masterpiece and I will die in that hill for it, B because I like balls, J simply because I just like the name, otherone sound like a LOOOZER and their texture are bunch of B**** (you get the point).

The point i wianna explain that even they are your friend; "In a competition environment, you should treat everyone equally. Even at their lowest spot, because they may not have the same resource but at the end of day, they simply commit to it so there wouldn't be any losers in this contests. We have to do these to improve future contest, we can't change it here but we can always discussed more."
(also should we need to discuss if the host has ability to vote? lol)

 

[Murlocologist]

Why are results visible? They shouldn’t be until poll finishes, this isn’t supposed to be a popularity / let’s vote for a friend contest. By showing results you are basically inviting people to bandwagon.
Why are people allowed to give between 1, 2 and 3 votes? Some spread 3 votes and some vote for only one entry, giving that one chosen entry an extra edge since no other option was given the remaining two votes.

Reason why it has come to a day where poll is a preferred decider of a contest is not because it is a better mechanism of determining the winner than the assigned reviewers, but because judging system kept failing contest after contest, making people frustrated and quitting the site. So with that in mind I find it difficult to understand how this poll is set up in a way that basically invites for bandwagoning and even allows making one’s vote more valuable by choosing to vote for only one, instead of three entries.

 

[Archian]

Updated the thread with images of WRAPS and UNWRAPS, so people can appreciate the unwrap of each entry and see how the artists managed to wrap the texture on the model. Please take this into account when voting

Since we don't have any judges, I hope justice will be done while voting. However, the competition is definitely stiff.

That's one of the reasons why we made a video and posted images of wraps/unwraps so people can get a better look.

Oh I didn't know we don't have judging, but oh well it's fine for me (I could've been a judge though). On the other hand, great stuff produced by the contest. This brings back the good thing I am not a reviewer anymore or else the skins section will be flooded with pending skins lmao.

On the other hand, I hope when this wraps up, we can have another contest.

But judges cannot participate I'd rather have you join!
As for another contest, the theme discussion have already begun! Texturing Contest #32 - Theme Discussion

Also what happens if there's a tie in the polling lol?

We will make a second poll - but only for the contestants.

This is a pretty cool contest with the entries having alot of effort, but i fully object to forcing flat democracy based public voting.
The Hive contest voting system is not bad, its just that the pieces that are suppose to make it work are missing due to various reasons.

Modifying the system from 70 - 30 (Judge - Public) to 60 - 40 can go a long way to accommodate for potential bias's being shown.

I suggest contests to have different systems based on situation, public voting should only be used if there is absolutely zero way of appropriate judging or if a set deadline end for judging a contest is passed (i dont recall deadlines being a thing but they should be)
60 - 40 should probably be used if there is only 2 judges.
And the classic 70 - 30 can be used if there is 3 or more active judges.

The interesting thing is that Hive does not lack talented people that can provide insight, it just has a problem where the people who can do it dont want to participate and so the duty is then left to either people who've done it so many times they're tired of it, or 1 person which ends up creating suspension of bias. Looking into ways to encourage people to participate in judging or making it a worth-while thing for them to do are genuine solutions worth looking into.

I'm looking at the textures, and unlike previously, i'm extremely conflicted on who to vote for, because previously i was confident that i can simply go with what i prefer because the actual judges are going to take care of the objective parts. now its like having an existential crisis moment just deciding who to vote for which means i wont be voting.

On the flip side, people who CAN vote without a second thought are going to be able to take advantage and just swarm vote.

As it stands i see little reason for the participants of the competition to care about who won. its essentially meaningless. its just a topic, a contest, and entries. Just like how an awkward situation where solo judging can cause people to quit, the same trouble is presented here except now Judges and Hive Staff are not responsible, just the vague public which can't be blamed. a nice evasion.

For the sake of the well being and stable mental health of everyone involved i would suggest to not care about who won because it doesn't matter, the system is not robust enough for it to matter.

So, to end it off, imo creating a contest purely based on public voting is definitely an option, but the option needs be used at the right time instead of being made into a default. (Right time as in 0 judges found or deadline for judges run out [deadlines for judging should totally be a thing])

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and concerns about the contest and its voting system. It's great to hear that you appreciate the effort put into the entries. I sure did I understand your objection to the flat democracy-based public voting system, and I agree that there are certain considerations to be made to ensure fairness and mitigate potential biases.

Your suggestion of modifying the voting system to a 60-40 split between judges and the public is a reasonable idea. This is something we have already discussed internally within the staff ranks. By giving a slightly higher weightage to the judges' evaluation, it can help address some of the concerns regarding potential biases. Implementing different voting systems based on the situation, such as public voting only as a last resort when appropriate judging is not feasible, is also a valid approach. This is something we did in this instance as no judges were found before the deadline - as stated it would be in the contest thread.

Encouraging participation from a diverse group of judges and finding ways to make the judging process more rewarding for them is crucial. It can help ensure a fair and objective evaluation of the entries. Creating incentives or recognition for judges can potentially attract talented individuals and alleviate the burden on a single judge. Unfortunately, it can be hard to find judges and the voting process can sometimes take a long time.

Your observation about the current voting system leading to an existential crisis when deciding whom to vote for is understandable. It highlights the complexity of relying solely on public voting without a strong framework for objective evaluation. The risk of swarming votes from individuals who vote without much consideration is a valid concern.

It's disappointing to hear that the current system makes the outcome of the contest seem meaningless to you. A robust and transparent system should be in place to instill confidence and value in the results. Striking the right balance between public voting and expert judgment is crucial for the overall well-being and satisfaction of participants and judges.

On the flip side, it's ill advised to underestimate the community's ability to evaluate artistic creations such as these. We are, after all, a community of artists and creators. And public polls have some advantages:

1. Transparency: Public polls allow for transparency in the voting process. The results are visible to all participants, ensuring that the outcome is fair.
2. Time-effective: Finding judges for contests can be difficult, especially for larger contests with a high number of entries. Public polls can be an effective alternative as they require no judges.
3. Diverse opinions: Judges may have their biases, preferences, and preconceived notions, which can affect their judgment. Public polls allow for a diverse range of opinions to be considered, ensuring that the winner is chosen by a broad cross-section of the community.
4. Greater engagement: Public polls allow for greater engagement from the community. Participants can share their entries with their friends and followers, encouraging them to vote and get involved in the contest.
5. Higher participation: Public polls may attract more participants as they allow for a level playing field where anyone can win. This can lead to a higher number of entries and more engagement from the community.
6. Instant results: Public polls provide instant results, which can be beneficial for time-sensitive contests or events. It allows for winners to be announced quickly, and the community can see the results in real-time.

Overall, public polls can be an effective and efficient way of deciding the winners of contests. They offer transparency, diversity, and engagement, and can be a time-effective alternative to finding qualified judges.

However, there are also several reasons why judges voting should weigh more in a contest than the votes of a public poll:

1. Expertise: Judges are usually experts in their field, and their opinions are highly valued. Their expertise allows them to make informed judgments based on the quality and technical aspects of the entries, which the general public may not be able to do.
2. Unbiased evaluation: Judges are expected to be impartial and objective in their evaluations, ensuring that the winner is chosen based on merit rather than popularity. Public polls can be influenced by popularity, personal connections, and social media following, which may not reflect the true quality of the entry.
3. Consistency: Judges can provide consistency in their evaluations, ensuring that the criteria for selection are consistent across all entries. Public polls may have inconsistent criteria for selection, leading to discrepancies in the final results.
4. Quality over quantity: Judges can evaluate the entries based on their quality rather than quantity. Public polls may be influenced by the number of votes an entry receives, rather than the quality of the entry itself.
5. Fairness: Judges can ensure fairness in the contest by evaluating the entries based on the criteria set for the contest. Public polls may be influenced by personal connections or social media following, which can result in unfair outcomes.

Overall, while public polls can provide transparency and engagement, judges voting can weigh more in a contest as they provide expert, unbiased, and consistent evaluations of the entries based on the criteria set for the contest.

Unfortunately, no judges were found before the deadline.

Thank you for sharing your perspective, and please feel free to reach out if you have any further ideas or concerns.

Why are results visible? They shouldn’t be until poll finishes, this isn’t supposed to be a popularity / let’s vote for a friend contest. By showing results you are basically inviting people to bandwagon.
Why are people allowed to give between 1, 2 and 3 votes? Some spread 3 votes and some vote for only one entry, giving that one chosen entry an extra edge since no other option was given the remaining two votes.

Reason why it has come to a day where poll is a preferred decider of a contest is not because it is a better mechanism of determining the winner than the assigned reviewers, but because judging system kept failing contest after contest, making people frustrated and quitting the site. So with that in mind I find it difficult to understand how this poll is set up in a way that basically invites for bandwagoning and even allows making one’s vote more valuable by choosing to vote for only one, instead of three entries.

Thanks for pointing that out. Poll has been adjusted so it does not show who voted. This however, is still visible to the administrators. So keep that in mind when voting, as voting for yourself is against the rules and we will know

Well, we do encourage people to vote for their top 3 skins since there are many awesome entries.

EDITED.

 

[Footman16]

I dont think people casting only 1 vote out of 3 should be invalidated.

 

[Archian]

I dont think people casting only 1 vote out of 3 should be invalidated.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of that either.

 

[Shido]

Personally, it's more of a relationship between the voter and the contestants. Imagine i join this contest as a newcomer, would that also affect my result too? Yeah, you know why is the lizzy leading the vote here.

 

[Shar Dundred]

Yeah, you know where why is the lizzy leading the vote here.

Claiming that Nightmare is leading in the vote because of "relationship between voter and contestant"
rather than texture quality is incredibly unfair, Shido.

 

[Shido]

Claiming that Nightmare is leading in the vote because of "relationship between voter and contestant"
rather than texture quality is incredibly unfair, Shido.

Yeah, I got my wording mixed up here. Not that i'm going to accused him because he is veteran in the field. I know he is a tough competitor and I fully aware that and i'm willingly be honest that he outscaled everyone.

The things is that even I have some voter that prior public viewing isn't available are related to me. Which i did point out that don't bias on me, i have no idea if they actually vote out of geniune or not. That's where i get paranoid about it.

So yeah, my apologize here. I didn't mean to throw ~Nightmare under the bus.

 

[StormKnight]

@Murlocologist

Reason why it has come to a day where poll is a preferred decider of a contest is not because it is a better mechanism of determining the winner than the assigned reviewers, but because judging system kept failing contest after contest, making people frustrated and quitting the site. So with that in mind I find it difficult to understand how this poll is set up in a way that basically invites for bandwagoning and even allows making one’s vote more valuable by choosing to vote for only one, instead of three entries.

I do agree that poll results shouldn't be shown, but while the results are visible after. no one should see who voted for who either way.

But i disagree with abandoning any sense of judging which is why i suggested a layered system that has fall back plans. you say if the results are invisible people will not bandwagon, but people will bandwagon even if the results and the people who vote are hidden. i know it because even back in the day i was asked to vote in for some minor question poll (not official hive contests) regardless of whether or not its visible.

And if i wanted to, or anyone for that matter, they can heavily screw with contests by bandwagon voting.

There is also a part of me that thinks if its creating this many issues to manage, why not just remove voting and make the contests hobby based, remove the pressure, the stress, and just let people make cool content with ease of mind. From that aspect the judging will just be done free form like how Shido just wrote a piece or how Footman said he will after the contest. (Both being fairly talented texture artists)

@Archian

Thank you for elaborating and responding to me in full, and writing something that isn't only useful to me but useful for everyone as it highlights the advantages and disadvantages of how one would or could execute a contest.

You seem to clearly understand and be aware of the issues that lies, it is only important for me to stress that it is crucial for Hive to be able to remain dynamic instead of static, which means even if there is a temporary solution to a problem, Hive would always strive to have ironed out several methods of dealing with issues and storing them, waiting for the right moment to use them.

Since Murloc suggested hiding results, i did have one more idea in my mind, that would be to hide the judges identity when a review is written as to reduce the effects of people feeling emotional or personal about the matter, and trying to not break rules like minimum 2 judges for contests.
Instead having backup plans stretching from the good old 70 - 30 to 60 - 40 and public anonymous voting or even free form poll-less contests that its "judges" are just everyone from talented artists to the average person, perhaps with the free form poll-less idea the thread in question could even use the "comment before you cast a vote" system from the rating mechanic on resources.

Cheers.

 

[Ralle]

I voted. Good job guys. Wow.

 

[ColourWolfe]

Good luck to everyone, yall made some serious art!

 

[Murlocologist]

Hiding the individuals who voted does nothing, it is the actual amount of votes each entry received that should be hidden. Sorry, but the scoreline is not realistic or objective with clear bias, additionally fueled thanks to the public display of votes. The criteria was supposed to be shading, concept and details. The number of voters is literally bigger than the number of those who actually downloaded textures to review them…
Don’t fancy taking a part in popularity contest, so I’ll take down my texture and exit this contest.

 

[Archian]

Hiding the individuals who voted does nothing, it is the actual amount of votes each entry received that should be hidden.

This is not possible with XenForo.

The criteria was supposed to be shading, concept and details. The number of voters is literally bigger than the number of those who actually downloaded textures to review them…

You can see the UNWRAP in the first post. This was also posted on various social media. People don't have to download an entry to review it.
There's also a video showcasing all the entries as well.

Don’t fancy taking a part in popularity contest, so I’ll take down my texture and exit this contest.

That's a bit harsh against the people who voted for your entry. I hope you will reconsider.

 

[Footman16]

I do agree that the number of votes should also have been hidden imo. Seeing who voted for who doesn't really change much in my perspective. Since that's not possible in Xenforo perhaps a third party website/poll could be used. There's tons of them online anyway for free.

Although I do hope Murlocologist that you do re-consider as I did enjoy seeing your entry.

 

[Archian]

I'd like to stress that it was repeatedly stated that the winners would be decided by the votes of a public poll, if no judges were found. Also, please keep in mind that contest polls have been like this forever. This is not news.

The only option that exists in XenForo is to hide the votes until you vote yourself. But this would mean that people can't change their votes afterwards.
Is this something people prefer in the future? Sound off below.

@Murlocologist Also, wouldn't it have been better to discuss this instead of simply removing your entry? I'd like to give you some time to reconsider before removing your name and entry from the contest.

 

[Footman16]

I'd like to stress that it was repeatedly stated that the winners would be decided by the votes of a public poll, if no judges were found. Also, please keep in mind that contest polls have been like this forever. This is not news.

The only option that exists in XenForo is to hide the votes until you vote yourself. But this would mean that people can't change their votes afterwards.
Is this something people prefer in the future? Sound off below.

Oh for sure I have no issues with the poll being used and knew that beforehand. I think the difference here is that only the poll is being used. Therefore it has to be more rigourous. Such as the number of votes being cast being anonymous, which if not possible in Xenforo perhaps another method can be used to conduct the poll as I said before.

Where the poll and judges are present we can be a bit looser since both offset each other to a degree. Where only one is used much greater care should be used. That's just my opinion though

 

[Moy]

I knew that this will become a problem as soon as I read that there are no judges and only the poll will be the deciding factor to determine the winner. I do prefer having judges as it gives us insight on what we can do to improve. I can however, withdraw the contest and just judge the contest.

Also, I think using a poll outside the website is not feasible. People can just create accounts and spam vote. I guess that this is a sign for the administrators as well as moderators to think of a way to fix these underlying issues.

We can still find judges though. I suggest also looking for people outside the texturing/art field. Modellers can also be considered as judges, as long as they have the tenurity and experience (in Hive). I suggest we offer "being a judge" rather than waiting for people to apply.

 

[Footman16]

I suggest we offer "being a judge" rather than waiting for people to apply.

This is always the best way of involving people I think. Of course it does require some effort and can be tedious having to find and harass ahem I mean "gently ask" people if they want to judge/get involved especially if it's the same person having to ask people all the time

 

[Murlocologist]

@Murlocologist Also, wouldn't it have been better to discuss this instead of simply removing your entry? I'd like to give you some time to reconsider before removing your name and entry from the contest.

No, sorry. I don’t have intention to cause a stir, I’m just not interested in participating in a contest where bias defeats merit. I won’t reconsider and you can remove the entry from the first page/ poll.

 

[Archian]

@Murlocologist I'm sad to hear that. I'd prefer to have a constructive discussion about this. Instead of this "all or nothing" approach. Especially after the fact. There must be a middle ground.
I've stated above that we can change it so that people can't see the results until after they've voted, however, this also means people can't change their votes. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, as well as the other contestants. @A.R. @~Nightmare @Vinz @Footman16 @PrinceYaser @Shido

Please excuse the people who voted for you. Since they rooted for you. I hope for their sake and any other who would vote for you, that you will reconsider one last time. Don't let them down

Please be advised that we are inclined to add a rule that states repeatedly leaving a contest may exclude you from joining future contests. I hope you can understand why we feel this is necessary after this incident. I'd like you to understand this before making your final decision. The same goes for any other who may consider such an unsportsmanlike conduct. We've done everything we can do to make this a great contest and experience for everyone. Now the rest is up to you.

I knew that this will become a problem as soon as I read that there are no judges and only the poll will be the deciding factor to determine the winner. I do prefer having judges as it gives us insight on what we can do to improve. I can however, withdraw the contest and just judge the contest.

Also, I think using a poll outside the website is not feasible. People can just create accounts and spam vote. I guess that this is a sign for the administrators as well as moderators to think of a way to fix these underlying issues.

We can still find judges though. I suggest also looking for people outside the texturing/art field. Modellers can also be considered as judges, as long as they have the tenurity and experience (in Hive). I suggest we offer "being a judge" rather than waiting for people to apply.

We've already lost one contestant because of this it seems. I'd hate to lose another and stir things up even further. It wouldn't be fair to the people who rooted for you. I appreciate that you're willing to help out though. I understand your position in that you are willing to put yourself on the line to help out. But please take what I stated above into account.

And yes, we won't be using an off-site voting system.

By all means, this contest can still get judges. Nothing is set in stone yet.

@Mr.Goblin @Taylor Mouse Are you guys interested?
@Murlocologist perhaps even you if you really decide to leave the contest. Then perhaps it's still possible to salvage something good from this unfortunate situation.

 

[Murlocologist]

Please excuse the people who voted for you. Since they rooted for you. I hope for their sake and any other who would vote for you, that you will reconsider one last time. Don't let them down

‘Voting = rooting’ attitude just confirms that this is about popularity and not merit, then. You aren’t supposed to care who is the author, you aren’t voting for author but the entry, you should review the entry and judge it with the criteria described in the opening post, not vote for someone to show your support towards them or vote for someone because, well, everyone else did.

 

[Archian]

In your opinion, what's the difference between voting or rooting for an entry?

We cannot dictate how people should place their votes. Like we cannot take away peoples love for the author and their craft. I'm convinced that, that love is based on merit, and not popularity.

I'm confident that people wouldn't have voted for their favorite author if they thought their entry was terrible or slightly worse than the others. So that argument doesn't hold water IMO. The majority of people, if not all, are voting for the entry i.e. their own preferences.
Are you saying that everyone who cast their votes, voted for the author and not the entry? If so, what do you base that on?

Also, if possible, I'd like to hear your opinion on this:

• We can change it so that people can't see the results until after they've voted, however, this also means people can't change their votes.
• Are you willing to become a judge?

 

[Moy]

In my opinion, it is better if we have complete anonymity for entries in contests that rely on polls to determine winners (together with the number of votes hidden). Well also, this means that authors should not be allowed from sharing work-in-progress screenshots in the contest thread using their name. To address this, one potential solution could be to develop a discord bot that manages contest submissions and automatically posts any updates in the thread. However, it is worth noting that this may require a significant amount of time and effort to develop a discord bot.

Moreover, it is possible to establish a separate subsection within the Skins Section specifically for anonymous contest entries/submissions. In this subsection, the authors' identities will remain undisclosed. Once the contest concludes, the skins can be revealed along with the respective authors. This approach ensures a fair and unbiased judging process while maintaining the element of surprise until the contest's completion.

 

[Shido]

I dunno about hiding their identity though, because their artstyle in these texture can be identified from a mile away. If this the case, imagine I mixing those approach fills with plot twist.

"You thought this was ~nightmare skin right?"
"BUT IT WAS ME!! SHIDO!!!!"

 

[BaiyuGalan]

Owl Warrioe is missing?I can't see Shadow Council Assassin in the Skins area either.
To be honest. I'm not very good at evaluating.
But in my opinion, the ranking is as follows:
1.K'Nawa by ~Nightmare - 10/10
2.Footman Warrior by Footman16 - 9/10
3.Blitzworgen by Vinz - 8.5/10
4.Judge of Deeds by PrinceYaser - 8.5/10
5.Sunweaver Genesaur by Shido - 7.5/10
6.Owl Warrior by Murlocologist - 7/10
7.Shadow Council Assassin by A.R. - 5/10
Each contestant's work is excellent.

 

[Footman16]

Owl Warrioe is missing?I can't see Shadow Council Assassin in the Skins area either.

I checked just there and I can see the Shadow Council Assassin just fine :/

EDIT: Also maybe 3 votes was a bit much for only 7 entries, if someone uses all 3 of their votes then basically 50% of the entries are guaranteed a vote. As we can see most of entries are quite clustered together vote-wise.

 

[deepstrasz]

There is also a part of me that thinks if its creating this many issues to manage, why not just remove voting and make the contests hobby based, remove the pressure, the stress, and just let people make cool content with ease of mind. From that aspect the judging will just be done free form like how Shido just wrote a piece or how Footman said he will after the contest. (Both being fairly talented texture artists)

That would only work as popular demand, basically, the non-contestants voting what they'd like to have on the site because the artists themselves can do whatever they want anytime anyway.

Since Murloc suggested hiding results, i did have one more idea in my mind, that would be to hide the judges identity when a review is written as to reduce the effects of people feeling emotional or personal about the matter, and trying to not break rules like minimum 2 judges for contests.

There some downsides with hiding stuff. Not seeing the voters even after the results, means the public cannot identify say possible multiaccounting schemes or some fishy voting, the matter only residing on the staff's shoulders to watch for. Not knowing the judges even after the results are out also isn't the best idea since there might be cases when a judge might be biased against a contestant for various reasons.

The only option that exists in XenForo is to hide the votes until you vote yourself. But this would mean that people can't change their votes afterwards.
Is this something people prefer in the future? Sound off below.

Problem with changing your vote(s) is that you can simply eliminate ties. I guess what's set in stone, should stay there, IMO. The staff could fix bad accidents though.

lease be advised that we are inclined to add a rule that states repeatedly leaving a contest may exclude you from joining future contests. I hope you can understand why we feel this is necessary after this incident. I'd like you to understand this before making your final decision.

This should definitely not apply to this contest as the rule has not yet been passed.

We've already lost one contestant because of this it seems. I'd hate to lose another and stir things up even further. It wouldn't be fair to the people who rooted for you. I appreciate that you're willing to help out though. I understand your position in that you are willing to put yourself on the line to help out. But please take what I stated above into account.

I don't think we should be passive aggressive. People have their own decisions as well and his only helps. Maybe @Murlocologist will remain if @~Nightmare becomes a judge?

 

[Murlocologist]

Sorry, but I made it clear that I wish to exit the contest. No, I wouldn’t be interested in judging the contest and no I wouldn’t remain if judges would to be added. I think the poll results shouldn’t have been visible during the voting phase, but also it was partially my mistake to suggest a contest could be decided by public poll because I wrongly evaluated the capability of the average voter to deliver proper score.

 

[frostwhisper]

I'm willing to retract my votes and act as a judge if:
1. Neither Murloc nor Nightmare withdraws
2. People are willing to accept my judgement (as someone who spent a LOT of time working with each entry)
3. I'm not the only judge

 

[deepstrasz]

3. I'm not the only judge

Let's make that one optional, please.

 

[frostwhisper]

Fair! Although you can see how that still might get people upset. You remember what happened last modeling contest, right

 

[deepstrasz]

Fair! Although you can see how that still might get people upset. You remember what happened last modeling contest, right

Nothing is perfect, my friends. But we strive.

 

[PrinceYaser]

I'd like to hear your thoughts on this, as well as the other contestants. @A.R. @~Nightmare @Vinz @Footman16 @PrinceYaser @Shido

I still believe contests should be having experienced people as judges, just like before. But only responsible judges. Public polls cannot be fully trusted, justice might not be considered.

Some may vote for their favorite person and not their favorite entry, you know? And some might not even look at the entries!!

In the end, an entry should definitely be examined based on the criteria given. And that's the job of a judge.

 

[Footman16]

I wrongly evaluated the capability of the average voter to deliver proper score.

In what sense? Without giving your own feedback/opinions on the other entries I'm not sure what you mean by this? Different people have different judging criteria. Do I disagree with how the votes are turning out? Of course because I want to win lol so ideally I'd have all the votes and be coming first by a landslide do I still understand that this is a vote and people will vote for the entries they believe are best which might differ from my own opinion? Also of course, and so I have no issue with where I will end up in the final tally.

Maybe I'll write up my reviews of the other entries and my own critique of my own before the end of the poll since the 14th is quite some way away.

 

[Archian]

First of all, I want to take a moment to express my gratitude to everyone of you for actively participating in this discussion. Your contributions and suggestions have truly enriched the conversation and brought diverse perspectives to the table. Please address any concerns you may have for future texturing contests in the Texturing Contest #32 - Theme Discussion

I am impressed by the level of engagement demonstrated by each participant Your input has shed light on various aspects of the topic and sparked new ideas that we can explore further.

We appreciate the effort and time you have dedicated to sharing your opinions, suggestions, and solutions. Your contributions have enriched the conversation.
Remember that every voice matters, and your willingness to actively engage in discussions plays a vital role in driving positive change. Your valuable insights contribute to creating a more inclusive, informed, and dynamic community

In my opinion, it is better if we have complete anonymity for entries in contests that rely on polls to determine winners (together with the number of votes hidden). Well also, this means that authors should not be allowed from sharing work-in-progress screenshots in the contest thread using their name. To address this, one potential solution could be to develop a discord bot that manages contest submissions and automatically posts any updates in the thread. However, it is worth noting that this may require a significant amount of time and effort to develop a discord bot.

Moreover, it is possible to establish a separate subsection within the Skins Section specifically for anonymous contest entries/submissions. In this subsection, the authors' identities will remain undisclosed. Once the contest concludes, the skins can be revealed along with the respective authors. This approach ensures a fair and unbiased judging process while maintaining the element of surprise until the contest's completion.

Thank you for sharing your opinion on this. Complete anonymity for contest entries, along with hiding the number of votes, can indeed promote fairness and prevent any bias based on author popularity. However, I see some concerns:

Firstly, removing the ability for authors to share work-in-progress screenshots using their names could hinder the overall experience of the contest.
The contest would become less interesting to follow and less engaging for the community if artists were unable to share their creative process. Sharing progress updates not only allows artists to showcase their creative process but also generates excitement and engagement within the community. By removing this aspect, the contest might lose some of its vibrancy and interaction. Not to mention that artists wouldn't have the opportunity to receive feedback, share ideas, or engage in discussions about their passion with fellow contestants in the contest thread.

Furthermore, establishing a separate subsection for anonymous contest entries could potentially lead to challenges in verifying the authenticity of the submissions. Without knowing the identities of the authors until after the contest concludes, it becomes difficult to ensure that the entries are indeed original and not plagiarized. Maintaining fairness and upholding the integrity of the contest becomes more complicated without proper verification measures. Having an open platform where everyone can see and comment on the creative process can also benefit the contest organizers, as the community helps us to promptly identify and address any violations or rule infringements.

Lastly, while maintaining anonymity until the contest's completion can add an element of surprise, it also eliminates the opportunity for the community to recognize and appreciate the artistic styles and techniques of individual authors. Artists often develop unique signatures and distinctive approaches that enthusiasts and fans enjoy. By concealing author identities, the contest loses an avenue for acknowledging and celebrating the talent and skill of the participants. While the concept of complete anonymity for contest entries has its merits in terms of fairness, it's important to consider the potential drawbacks such as reduced engagement, verification challenges, and the loss of individual recognition within the community.

Your suggestion of developing a discord bot to manage contest submissions and automatically post updates in the thread is an interesting idea. Unfortunately, it's not something I see happening any time soon I'm afraid.

Owl Warrioe is missing?I can't see Shadow Council Assassin in the Skins area either.

Murlocologist decided to delete his entry. The Shadow Council Assassin is still there.

EDIT: Also maybe 3 votes was a bit much for only 7 entries, if someone uses all 3 of their votes then basically 50% of the entries are guaranteed a vote. As we can see most of entries are quite clustered together vote-wise.

While the suggestion to reconsider the number of votes in relation to the number of entries is worth considering, please keep this in mind:

Firstly, the proportionality of votes to entries depends on the specific context and goals of the contest. While it may appear that using all three votes guarantees a vote for nearly 50% of the entries in a small contest, it's essential to remember that the purpose of voting is to gauge the preferences of the participants and the community. Allowing multiple votes can provide voters with the opportunity to express their preferences more comprehensively and accurately, considering that they may have different opinions on the various entries.

Moreover, reducing the number of votes per person might limit the participants' ability to express their preferences fully, especially in cases where they genuinely find multiple entries deserving of recognition. By restricting the number of votes, the voting process may become more constrained and less reflective of the diversity of opinions within the community.

This should definitely not apply to this contest as the rule has not yet been passed.

Rest assured, we would never create a new rule and enforce them retroactively for incidents made before the rule was made.
I'm simply giving a warning that such unfortunate trends or simillar unsportsmanlike conduct may lead to the creation new regulative politics for future contests. I'd prefer not to, though.

I don't think we should be passive aggressive.

My sincere apologies! I did not mean to come across as passive-aggressive :O Hope we're good there @~Nightmare

I still believe contests should be having experienced people as judges, just like before. But only responsible judges. Public polls cannot be fully trusted, justice might not be considered.

Some may vote for their favorite person and not their favorite entry, you know? And some might not even look at the entries!!

In the end, an entry should definitely be examined based on the criteria given. And that's the job of a judge.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and suggestions. We'd love to have more judges. But no one signed up, unfortunately.

Altough, @frostwhisper and myself are willing to act as a judge. Problem is, however, we already participated in the poll.

 

[Footman16]

While the suggestion to reconsider the number of votes in relation to the number of entries is worth considering, please keep this in mind:

Firstly, the proportionality of votes to entries depends on the specific context and goals of the contest. While it may appear that using all three votes guarantees a vote for nearly 50% of the entries in a small contest, it's essential to remember that the purpose of voting is to gauge the preferences of the participants and the community. Allowing multiple votes can provide voters with the opportunity to express their preferences more comprehensively and accurately, considering that they may have different opinions on the various entries.

Moreover, reducing the number of votes per person might limit the participants' ability to express their preferences fully, especially in cases where they genuinely find multiple entries deserving of recognition. By restricting the number of votes, the voting process may become more constrained and less reflective of the diversity of opinions within the community.

In that situation STV would be the optimal voting system but probably a tad too complex. I just think perhaps there should be a formula for the number of votes based on the number of entries. For example N = E/3 rounded where N is number of votes and E is number of Entries, so <4 entries, 1 vote, 5 - 7 entries 2 votes, 8 - 10 entries 3 votes. Just an example, of course it is a grey area in terms of how many votes should be given and there's probably no perfect answer.