[Role Playing Game] Your oppinion on these Idea's please

[Vlad727]

Greetings fellow Hivers, map-makers, and RPG-lovers.

I am currently working on a project called; "The Sin War RPG".
And I have several idea's that I want to implement into the game.
All I want is your opinion, do you like the idea?, how can I improve it?
Or why would it not work?.

Basically I wish to make a RPG that is (in my eyes) ideal.
For each thing that I find annoying in a RPG,
I thought of a solution.

1. Ever played a RPG for the first time and have it somewhat
ruined by players that are (coincidently) high LVL?
Or do you want to do the end boss, but everyone
who joins is way below your LVL?

Solution:
The entire game is split in 4 main maps, and 4 raid maps
(1 for each main map). The maps have a specific LVL-range
(1-20, 20-40, 40-60, 60-75). Because of that you will
always be (kind off) grouped with players from around
your LVL. Also If you want to do the raid instead of grinding,
then you can! Simply by hosting the raid map.



2. Ever had that you can not get a group together
on battle-net, and can not save in single-player?
Or that you just want to grind a little?

Solution:
You can!.
The Sin Wars RPG has a solo-playability. So no more long
waits on Battle-net just so that you can grind.
However note that as soon as you enter a cheat,
the game will end, so no time to save your game.



3. Ever got bored since you kinda know what your
class's skills are and all? Or that you feel that your class is very
one-sided and not flexible at all?

Solution:
Each class has either 2-3 sets of spells, or a range of
selectable utility skill that have a passive effect
and an active effect.

This means that each class can be played in either 3 way's
(each a focussed spec)
Or you can quickly switch while in combat and play as a hybrid!

As for utility spells;
-each spell set grants 1,
-classes with only 1 spell set can choose between
4 utility spells. These range from handy survival spells, to group beneficial auras.



4. Ever had that you look exactly the same as everyone
else that is the same class? or that you look the same on low LVL
as on high LVL?

Solution:
Equipment is shown in The Sin Wars RPG.
Also each class is flexible in equipment choice.
By that I mean;
you can be a tanking Templar, a Dps Templar, or a healing one.
And your entire team will be able to tell the difference between the 3
just by looking at your armour.

Classes that lack different spell sets will have the effects of their
skills depend on multiple stats (or at least more often)
meaning that even they will look different!



5. Ever felt that your supportive/healer role is not
praised by your group?

Are people like;
"If I die it is the healers fault, not mine!"

Or when they do get healed;
"Duh!, that is his job right, nothing special."?

Solution:
A lot of the supportive spells are AOE!
Not all of course, but most of them will be.
Therefore you get a feeling of cooperation.

For example:
"The Druid used his spores of nature......it's the healing effect!
EVERYONE WHO NEEDS HEALING JUMP IN!!!, Thanks druid, just what
we needed."

Or in the case of debuffs:
"The Voidstalker used his arcane chain spell, everyone wait till the
enemies are clustered.... NOW EVERYONE USE AOE SPELLS!!!,
thx voidstalker that made dealing with mobs a lot easier"

I aim to create a game that stimulates group play, a game that has
those high-five moments as a party's experimental combo works.



6. Ever done a raid with strangers, and had
a fight about the loot? or that you need to do a raid multiple
times, just because people reserved the loot?
Or worse!, that you end a raid thinking it did not benefit
you?

Solution:
There are honour points, these points are gained
by doing raids and by completing the optional challenges in a raid.
These points can be spend in raids for special loot!

At the end of a boss-fight, each player can buy loot with his
own points. naturally better loot costs more honour points.

The amount of points gained works like this:
defeating a boss grants a set amount of points,
completing 1 or several challenge(s) will award bonus points.

So no more ninja looting in difficult raids, thus more trust among
raid members who do not know each other (yet).

It makes raid loot efficient, as you can:
1. pick the loot you want, so no more praying for a drop
2. see what more a boss has to offer, making raids re-playable
3. no more useless raids that offer no rewards!!!



I hope that you like these Idea's,
please comment what you think about them

Thanks in advance,
Vlad727

 

[Goblinkingsp]

1. Ever played a RPG for the first time and have it somewhat
ruined by players that are (coincidently) high LVL?
Or do you want to do the end boss, but everyone
who joins is way below your LVL?

Solution:
The entire game is split in 4 main maps, and 4 raid maps
(1 for each main map). The maps have a specific LVL-range
(1-20, 20-40, 40-60, 60-75). Because of that you will
always be (kind off) grouped with players from around
your LVL. Also If you want to do the raid instead of grinding,
then you can! Simply by hosting the raid map.

It seems alright, but then you're limiting the map size into 8 sections. You figure a 456x456 map size, that's only a 57x57 area for each of these map sections, limiting the area people have to get actual gameplay. And if you're not allowing higher level players into lower level areas, then it becomes even more limited.

2. Ever had that you can not get a group together
on battle-net, and can not save in single-player?
Or that you just want to grind a little?

Solution:
You can!.
The Sin Wars RPG has a solo-playability. So no more long
waits on Battle-net just so that you can grind.
However note that as soon as you enter a cheat,
the game will end, so no time to save your game.

If people cheat, people cheat, there's nothing you can do about it. I'm positive there's a way around your so-called, "Anti-Cheat". I suppose this is better than the normal way to play the game though.

3. Ever got bored since you kinda know what your
class's skills are and all? Or that you feel that your class is very
one-sided and not flexible at all?

Solution:
Each class has either 2-3 sets of spells, or a range of
selectable utility skill that have a passive effect
and an active effect.

This means that each class can be played in either 3 way's
(each a focussed spec)
Or you can quickly switch while in combat and play as a hybrid!

As for utility spells;
-each spell set grants 1,
-classes with only 1 spell set can choose between
4 utility spells. These range from handy survival spells, to group beneficial auras.

This seems alright, it's not as though this was ever a problem. You play through an rpg, learn class skills, and you still memorise them. This is just more of a unique feature for this map, and it will still be inevitable.

4. Ever had that you look exactly the same as everyone
else that is the same class? or that you look the same on low LVL
as on high LVL?

Solution:
Equipment is shown in The Sin Wars RPG.
Also each class is flexible in equipment choice.
By that I mean;
you can be a tanking Templar, a Dps Templar, or a healing one.
And your entire team will be able to tell the difference between the 3
just by looking at your armour.

Classes that lack different spell sets will have the effects of their
skills depend on multiple stats (or at least more often)
meaning that even they will look different!

This seems fine, but will take up additional space.

5. Ever felt that your supportive/healer role is not
praised by your group?

Are people like;
"If I die it is the healers fault, not mine!"

Or when they do get healed;
"Duh!, that is his job right, nothing special."?

Solution:
A lot of the supportive spells are AOE!
Not all of course, but most of them will be.
Therefore you get a feeling of cooperation.

For example:
"The Druid used his spores of nature......it's the healing effect!
EVERYONE WHO NEEDS HEALING JUMP IN!!!, Thanks druid, just what
we needed."

Or in the case of debuffs:
"The Voidstalker used his arcane chain spell, everyone wait till the
enemies are clustered.... NOW EVERYONE USE AOE SPELLS!!!,
thx voidstalker that made dealing with mobs a lot easier"

I aim to create a game that stimulates group play, a game that has
those high-five moments as a party's experimental combo works.

This doesn't necessarily fix the problem you stated, all it does is make supportive roles more effective in larger groups with multiple people. Yet earlier on, you were wanting to separate people off into smaller groups, making a supportive class extremely ineffective.

6. Ever done a raid with strangers, and had
a fight about the loot? or that you need to do a raid multiple
times, just because people reserved the loot?
Or worse!, that you end a raid thinking it did not benefit
you?

Solution:
There are honour points, these points are gained
by doing raids and by completing the optional challenges in a raid.
These points can be spend in raids for special loot!

At the end of a boss-fight, each player can buy loot with his
own points. naturally better loot costs more honour points.

The amount of points gained works like this:
defeating a boss grants a set amount of points,
completing 1 or several challenge(s) will award bonus points.

So no more ninja looting in difficult raids, thus more trust among
raid members who do not know each other (yet).

It makes raid loot efficient, as you can:
1. pick the loot you want, so no more praying for a drop
2. see what more a boss has to offer, making raids re-playable
3. no more useless raids that offer no rewards!!!

This is always a useful feature.

Overall, a few of the features seem questionable. By dividing the map into eight sections you limit the overall playability of the map, especially if you're not allowing people to visit lower level sections. An easier solution would be to scale peoples levels to the zones they are on, allowing players who are higher level the ability to help those who are lower level. Solo-playability seems like a useful feature, but I don't think you particularly need to "crash" the game if they use a cheat, just disable save/load. Adding more skills for a class will still have the same end result, just a long lifespan of re playability and refocusing.
Though it seems to be a fine game, so keep on working.

 

[Vlad727]

It seems alright, but then you're limiting the map size into 8 sections. You figure a 456x456 map size, that's only a 57x57 area for each of these map sections, limiting the area people have to get actual gameplay. And if you're not allowing higher level players into lower level areas, then it becomes even more limited.


If people cheat, people cheat, there's nothing you can do about it. I'm positive there's a way around your so-called, "Anti-Cheat". I suppose this is better than the normal way to play the game though.


This seems alright, it's not as though this was ever a problem. You play through an rpg, learn class skills, and you still memorise them. This is just more of a unique feature for this map, and it will still be inevitable.


This seems fine, but will take up additional space.



This doesn't necessarily fix the problem you stated, all it does is make supportive roles more effective in larger groups with multiple people. Yet earlier on, you were wanting to separate people off into smaller groups, making a supportive class extremely ineffective.



This is always a useful feature.

Overall, a few of the features seem questionable. By dividing the map into eight sections you limit the overall playability of the map, especially if you're not allowing people to visit lower level sections. An easier solution would be to scale peoples levels to the zones they are on, allowing players who are higher level the ability to help those who are lower level. Solo-playability seems like a useful feature, but I don't think you particularly need to "crash" the game if they use a cheat, just disable save/load. Adding more skills for a class will still have the same end result, just a long lifespan of re playability and refocusing.
Though it seems to be a fine game, so keep on working.

With Dividing the map into sub maps I mean, there are 8 maps.
you have 8x (456x456), so you can join a map that is around your lvl.

Though I agree that more skills will not really stop the boredom of
knowing all your spells, but I want to grant people a certain flexibility
with the class they play, in gear, skills, play style, etc.

As for the cheat-system, I may use the Daemonic-Sword-ORPG's
example of dealing with single player-mode.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

1) Splitting a game into multiple maps looks like a good idea at first, but is an insane amount of work, as when you update one map, you need to update all other maps aswell.

2) Multiplayer RPGs being able to be solo played are extremely hard to balance. It's not just reducing HP or damage output. Balancing group content requires totally different encounters than solo content. Bosses need different spells, different timers and even different AI.
It's an incredible amount of work to basicly create 2 or 3 variations of each boss/unit just for solo compat. Unless you just want to reduce your game to tank & spank, which is boring as hell and certainly not the way to go.

3) It just delays the issue. It's not a fix. At some point in the game, you will always know all abilities and spells.
Not having access to all spells at the same time and needing to select out of a pool is a common concept in wc3 rpgs. Nothing new here, really.

4) Nothing new either.

5) When done right, supportive roles might even be more popular than DPS roles. From my experience with Gaias Retaliation ORPG, for example, I can tell you that the healing/tanking classes are currently the most popular ones. Simplifying the healing options by all making them AoE just takes out the challenge and fun in playing supportive classes. Kind of counter-productive, imho.

6) It's a matter of taste, really. I always liked some randomness in terms of boss loots. Getting only tokens from killing bosses makes is so repetitive and boring... I don't know, some people might like it, but I prefer to have a little bit of a gamble and luck in my rpgs.
A combination of ordinary loot and tokens might be a good compromise.


All I can say is: nothing really innovative. Go ahead and create a quality map, really, there are not many good rpgs out there, but expect it to be a shitload of work. Creating a quality RPG takes MONTHS if not YEARS of dedication.
Most popular RPG maps in War3 are there for several years and have been improved constantly. You can't expect to create a good rpg in just a couple of weeks or months.

 

[Vlad727]

I Agree that some things are indeed a matter of taste,

As to clarify some of my intentions and slightly adapt/change them.

For the solo-play part:
You can not do everything in solo, raids and dungeons will be almost impossible when alone,
I just wish to give players the option to grind when they feel like it, without
depending on people to join so they can save. It is more for simple quests, regular quests (main story).
The quests that are marked as group quests are, as the name suggests,
best when in a party of at least 2 (for regular T&S)
and otherwise suggest a minimum party size

On the Supportive classes:
Almost every class can do something supportive, there is no all out DPS class in
the game. Not every spell will be AOE, might do 50-50
(with a variation for each class)

As for the example of the druid:
Some spells have random effects, meaning that certain spells have possible positive
effects, but also negative ones (healing spores in AOE for 5 seconds, or poison
spores for 5 seconds, and yes your gear - and some spells - will influence those odds)

The reason why I think that would be fun and exiting is that it adds a minor dose of
randomness to the game. Meaning you have to stay alert and adapt to the
situation constantly.
so to sum that up excited raids countered with slightly dull grinding to
pass the time and get some gold.

As for point 4. the armour:
I know, but it is just something that bothers me with most games.
and yes I know it is the least original idea of them all.

As for your first point:
Yes it is a hell lot of work (sorry for the swearing, if I offend anyone in anyway)
But I have already spend 2 years in planning, collecting, researching for this game.
And It is my first and final gift to the hive.
(Kind of sentimental sorry)
But as A great RPG fan, I just feel the need to thank the hive for all the great maps,
and fun time I have had on it. And I do so by finishing this frozen/forgotten project
of mine. so trust me the amount of work or the time it will take, are non of my
concerns.

I thank you for your feedback. I have much to do and need all the feedback and help
I can get.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

For the solo-play part:
You can not do everything in solo, raids and dungeons will be almost impossible when alone,
I just wish to give players the option to grind when they feel like it, without
depending on people to join so they can save. It is more for simple quests, regular quests (main story).
The quests that are marked as group quests are, as the name suggests,
best when in a party of at least 2 (for regular T&S)
and otherwise suggest a minimum party size

Which basicly means that its a group map with soloplayer tacked on top of it. It will never feel like real singleplayer then, if you can not do all the content alone.

On the Supportive classes:
Almost every class can do something supportive, there is no all out DPS class in
the game. Not every spell will be AOE, might do 50-50
(with a variation for each class)

Which basicly takes some of the individuality out of the game. If everyone is a jack-of-all-trades, where's the point in having different classes in the first place?

As for the example of the druid:
Some spells have random effects, meaning that certain spells have possible positive
effects, but also negative ones (healing spores in AOE for 5 seconds, or poison
spores for 5 seconds, and yes your gear - and some spells - will influence those odds)

The reason why I think that would be fun and exiting is that it adds a minor dose of
randomness to the game. Meaning you have to stay alert and adapt to the
situation constantly.

Won't work out. People will just either get frustrated because the bad effect made them fail the encounter for no apparent reason or might be totally lucky and kill the boss in a breeze.
Random effects in spells is a terrible, terrible idea. Random only makes sense if the amount of randomness is always beneficial.

If you want to create challenging, entertaining bossfights, you want to keep away from randomness as much as possible, or else people will just get frustrated. Difficulty should always challenge player skills, not dices.

As for your first point:
Yes it is a hell lot of work (sorry for the swearing, if I offend anyone in anyway)
But I have already spend 2 years in planning, collecting, researching for this game.
And It is my first and final gift to the hive.
(Kind of sentimental sorry)
But as A great RPG fan, I just feel the need to thank the hive for all the great maps,
and fun time I have had on it. And I do so by finishing this frozen/forgotten project
of mine. so trust me the amount of work or the time it will take, are non of my
concerns.

Hmm... go ahead and start it, then. But don't make the mistake and try to achieve everything at once. Start with simple things. Concentrate on a selected number of features and make them good. Then add new features. If you want to do everything at once, you will most likely fail. Just an advice I can give you.

Also, I recommend starting with a good load of content before adding more complex features or systems later. It makes no sense to create a complex and exciting feature-stuffed game, when there's no content to back it up.
Basicly the reason why Dark Invasion II failed (If you haven't played it, get it! It's a perfect example of why an awesome list of features alone isn't enough).