WoW lore

[VeljkoM]

Orcs never said anything about keeping undead war from portal. They though that undead are test to prove that they are worthy to serve legion.
"The burning masters sent death to test us! Victory for the Black Rock clan!"
They were also jealous.
"We orcs are true servants of the Burning legion, you dead are weak!
Orcs didn't consider why undead are there in first place.

Also you are only focusing on undead campaign from War3. You forgot those cinematic where undead and legion burned down those villages. You aren't even considering activities after the kalimdor invasion.Remember that dreadlords commanded many undead armies and they marched around and even to Dalaran. Remember how land of Lorearon looked after third war? Dead everywhere and remnants of alliance were scattered. There was lot of time between undead campaign from war3 to TFT.

 

[Fussiler1]

The orcs might be jealous, but keeping the undead from the portal would also be in their benefit, otherwise the Demonlord would change his minds if the dead lich talked to him.

That is true, but the activity between RoC and TFT was mainly trying to crush Garithos, marching upon Dalaran, maybe fighting the Syndicate sometimes.

We shall never know if the Scourge attacked Gilneas since that question is nowhere answered.

 

[VeljkoM]

But there is chance. If they could attack so many kingdoms why leave them?

Also blackrock orcs had no idea why undead came. As far as the knew they were there to punish them.

 

[Fussiler1]

Because the Gilneans didn't pose a threat?

As for the Orcs, I'm sure they did.
I mean....

Undead ---- Demons.

Seems quite logical.

 

[VeljkoM]

But how would orcs know what undead want?

And Gilineas has or had an army so it is treat, they are living so they are target.

 

[AIagremm]

Wow. Thanks WoW for destroying Wacraft.
I still hope that Blizzard will kepp the promise and use only the good and normal lore for WC4.

 

[Fussiler1]

Maybe Gilneas has an army, but it's an army that never comes out that damned wall. So, it doesn't pose a threat.

 

[VeljkoM]

Never say never. Everything in Azeroth is treat.

 

[Fussiler1]

Dude.. Gilneas dooeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssnnnnnnnnnn'tttttt.
They have a damn king who keeps his people isolated and his heir will probably have the same thoughts!

 

[VeljkoM]

They are isolated and have wall, why?
They are scared. Why? They live in the world of killing.
Wall is there to protect and if they don't pose treat why protect?

 

[Fussiler1]

-Deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep, deep sigh-

They build that wall because they didn't wanted to have anything more to do with the problems of the other nations and the alliance, it was an idea of their king and the Gilneans actually could not decide.

And if they're scared, how could they possibly pose a threat then?

 

[VeljkoM]

Scared people are always big treat. They will do anything to survive and are impossible to predict. Only a fool underestimates scared. Also why would Legion ans scourge care are they treat or not. They are pure evil and they come to destroy all (or as Medivh said to undo all).

Believe it or not Gilineas is a kingdom with an army and soldiers. They are also one of the richest countries so they can equip military, make all kinds of weapons or simply hire mercenaries. You are making them look pathetic. If they were weak they would die long ago.

 

[Fussiler1]

Scared people, the biggest threat? No. Scared people always try to evade the danger.

Scourge: ''oh ya let's invade gilneaz and lose thousands of soldierzz''
They would never do that, because their leader has brains and is not purely evil.
Ner'zhul is not purely evil, that just cannot be.

Gilneas might be strong, but it was never touched by the curse of war since the Orcs never reached their homelands and they never sended armies,

 

[VeljkoM]

Undead gain more troops by killing so they don't lose anything. And when you can't evade you must fight. Desperate man has nothing to lose. Orcs reached Lordearon, Quel'thalas, Dalaran....so why exactly they can't reach them?

 

[StormWarriors2]

Gilneas is a dead end for lore guys lol. THERE IS NO HISTORY ON IT! ONLY FEW VERY FEW like minimized + 10 fold.
lets end this it is very pointless. But heres some info Gilenas is going to be talked about in the NEXT WoW expansion.

 

[Misha]

Blizzard guys shall be hanged for treason against WarCraft Lore!
Executioner! Do your job >3

 

[Fussiler1]

Well, because Gilneas didn't had troops so didn't really was a big big threat for the Orcs, while the other kingdoms were more important.

And dude, for the last time, Gilneas is not a threat since it hides behind its wall and will never come out with its armies! Why would the Undead waste their time then to the Gilneans?

 

[VeljkoM]

I told you time after time and you still use same argument.
Gilineas has an ARMY, they are LIVING, they were once part of Alliance and can be again. They have best economic. They are important also. They wouldn't have to hide if they weren't target. There isn't a single thing saying that they aren't treat. Is snake any less dangerous if you can't see it?

Undead don't care about who is treat. They attack because they are created to kill, because they get more troops only by raising dead so the need dead and you get dead by killing. Guess how much dead would be if Gilineas is killed. Undead never waste time if they kill. Undead don't need to fear about loses since there are so many of them.

Army can get out. Just because they didn't doesn't mean they won't. Their existence is enough.

Orcs were rampaging across whole continent. Just because a large army didn't attack there were still orc bands that wanted to prove them selves. Gilineas had gold and treasure and orcs can be greedy.

 

[Fussiler1]

True true, true.. But you forget they have a damn king who doesn't wants to join the Alliance or have to do anything with their problems!

And. No. The Undead do, seriously. They are controlled by one master brain who has some knowdledge of tactics and such. Priests can prove deadly to Undead, and who says Gilneas doesn't have those?

Army won't get out since their boss is the King and the King isolated themselves.

Yes, but the Orcish Armies didn't even came close to Gilneas so the chance that a warband wandered off and attacked them was very very little.

 

[Fussiler1]

True true, true.. But you forget they have a damn king who doesn't wants to join the Alliance or have to do anything with their problems!

And. No. The Undead do, seriously. They are controlled by one master brain who has some knowdledge of tactics and such. Priests can prove deadly to Undead, and who says Gilneas doesn't have those?

Army won't get out since their boss is the King and the King isolated themselves.

Yes, but the Orcish Armies didn't even came close to Gilneas so the chance that a warband wandered off and attacked them was very very little.

 

[VeljkoM]

Maybe king can change his mind or revolution could happen? That doesn't change the fact that they have army. They surly don't like undead so they won't help them and they may one day be problem.

Lich King can't control all undead individually that is why he has necromancer and Lich. Also attack could have happened during the dreadlord rule. And if Undead cared about treat why would they waste time with small villages, refuges and thing s like that? Ner'zhul isn't a military leader he is more like dark caster that wants to rule the world filed with dead. The prime mission of Scourge is to kill and clean the world of living.Believe it or not that is there goal.

Have you seen warcraft 2 map? Orcs can with ships easily come to Gilineas. One part of thge army was in charge to take control of see region between Azeroth and Lordearon. They had naval army that waited army which was in Khaz Modan and Quel'thalas. Any part of orc naval forces could attack Gilineas. Also damn limit...

 

[Fussiler1]

That can happen, but it didn't. And dude, they don't even know the Undead exist.

And yes, the Lich King can controll everyone individually. He needs liches to support his troops and Deathknights to lead them. Plus, the villages and the refugees were a threat. Remaining paladins, gatherings and guerilla attacks. T.T. Plus, Ner'zhul was an old wise shaman. He fought against the Draenei and escaped the humans. For that you need militairy insight.

Might be so, but Kul Tiras also had a navy. They could, with some troubles maybe, keep the Orcish Fleet from the shores.

 

[VeljkoM]

If Lich King controlled every single undead he then could have easy take back control from Sylvanas and there would be no Forsaken. Undead have shown many times that they think for the selves like necromancer, crypt fiends...

And if Kul Tiras knew about undead then gilineas can know also. Many people came to ask Gilineas for help so Gilineas knows about
undead. Gilineas is isolated not mentally retarded.

Arthas didn't know that paladins survived (he was surprised to see them) so how did they know about paladin treat? Arthas killed refuges so they wouldn't run away and live. Also where is logic that small groups of humans are bigger treat then full equipped army with strongholds and everything.

Why do you think orc allied with troll and built the navy in first place? Horde won the naval wars in Warcraft 2.

 

[Fussiler1]

Dude, the Forsaken broke away when Illidan attacked the Icecrown with the Eye of Sargeras, the Lich King lost controll for a moment. Now he has returned to his normal state, but the Forsaken broke away forever.

Maybe many people asked for help, but nobody answered. There weren't even guards on the Greymane wall, so they can't know. No outsider entered Gilneas, no Gilnean entered the outside. They can't know.

Maybe he didn't know about the Paladins, but there was resistence. Take Garithos and his forces.

Asif the Trolls had navies, pff. Plus, that is not entirely true. When Lothar and his compagny got trapped at Blackrock Spire, the navy of Kul Tiras first needed to destroy a naval base before the humans could reach him.
The Kul Tiras navy would surely be strong enough to withhold them from the shores.

 

[VeljkoM]

Sylvanas broke away then with banshees. Dreadlord took opportunity and took control over major part of the scourge. She then took undead from them.

Right there wasn't single guard that saw poor people standing in front of gate. They probably have orders not to open doors for anyone. Also vorgens are part of the scourge now and if the new patch is true that means that scourge considers gilineas a target. They are no idiots to not know about army of dead. Maybe the Gilineas brigade from Theramore island sent them a message?

Garithose was a problem but many undead armies were there to confront him and keep him far. His forces were all down near Dalaran and that is way south of Lordearon.

If you have ever played Warcraft 2 you would know that troll made ships (they were called Troll Destroyers). Also before counter attack Horde ruled the sea. They destroyed Dalaran that way.

 

[AIagremm]

That is kinda strange, because how did they get their ships in the Lordamere Lake? Or did they build them there?

 

[VeljkoM]

Lake? I am talking about that sea between Lordearon and Azeroth.

map

 

[AIagremm]

I mean in later sources Dalaran and the Cross Ilsand were in Lordamere lake.

 

[VeljkoM]

I think Dalaran was attacked from east. Well I have no idea how they done that.

 

[Fussiler1]

Sylvanas was able to break away because of the weakening Lich King.

There wasn't a single guard, believe me. I read it myself on Wowwiki.

His forces were south, yes, but remember there were undead taken to Mount Hyjal. Plus, there was a civil war coming, I guess the Dreadlords as Arthas marshalled their forces.

Horde cannot rule the seas entirely.

 

[VeljkoM]

How did we disagree about Sylvanas?

There then other ways to find out. There is no way that Gilineas don't know about scourge. Even a worm under the rock knows it.

Not all undead are sent to Kalimdor and before that Archimon commanded attacks on many cities and nations. He said that it was disappointment how weak humans are. There was from end of Undead campaign from War3 to TFT undead campaign time attack. That is seriously big time. You are saying what? that undead were just sitting?

Horde did manage to clean the way to attack Dalaran which is very near to Gilineas. After Guldan screw things up Horde lost the advantage and Alliance exploited that.

Also wiki isn't always 100% accurate.

 

[Fussiler1]

We didn't.

How should they know about the Scourge?

Of course the Undead weren't doing nothing, but the quote that Archimonde led some attacks on cities is just ridicilous. Stratholme purged, Silvermoon destroyed and the Capital city of Lordaeron ruins. What city remains?

Maybe they came close, but dude, they needed everyone I guess for Gilneas. They hadn't time to attack Gilneas, not even a wandering warband.

Sometimes.

 

[VeljkoM]

It is said in manual that gilineas killed orcs on sight. Also that they had an army. Orcs didn't sent main attack nor they planed. But there is always some clan with "genius" that wants to prove him self. Also they didn't need everyone against elves, Khaz Modan and Grim Batol. Whole war was good for the Horde until Alterac failed and Guldans betrayal. If Guldan waited just one battle Alliance would be seriously weakened.

Gilineas is only left city in left that region. Azeroth is to far south and maybe Khaz Modan could also count. Maybe some creep camps?

 

[StormWarriors2]

That Sylvanas is sexy. but still STOP TALKING ABOUT GILINEAS TALK ABOUT THE GAY uhhhhhh what was it damn. oh i know the fing god damn warriors of Scarlet Crusade. that lore is f---ed up

 

[Fussiler1]

Storm, it's a discussion, which is fun.

'course they had an army, but seriously, a clan is just way too big and I'm sure they wouldn't get permission of Orgrim. And, maybe they didn't needed everyone, but I'm sure they'd rather go raid Lordaeron farms then Gilneans, with a fresh and strong army.

Yeah, Gilneas was one of the only cities left.
But it got protected by a badass wall.

 

[VeljkoM]

Gillineas had more gold to be pillaged.

So wall can stop undead and legion and combined armies of sentinels, horde and alliance expedition couldn't do it. Why the heck did Night Elves make a wall? Also id wall is unguarded as they say in wiki it wouldn't stop any army for long.

 

[Fussiler1]

Hm, so? Having a clan pillaging an other country is a heavy loss for the Horde.

What the fuck, Night Elves?

 

[VeljkoM]

So orcs are pillagers and like gold? Also Ogrim can't control all orcs in the horde. And I meant small fresh clan or a just small band.

Change of scenery. Well by your logic empty wall is more powerful then Night Elves.

 

[Fussiler1]

Duh. Yes, he can. There is no 'small clan'. Maybe some wandering warband, but the fights in the Second War were heavy so I guess he needed everyone.

Well, no, the wall isn't. But okay, there is a wall. An empty wall. Wouldn't the Scourge then think the land is empty anyway?

 

[VeljkoM]

Stormraver and Twiligthammer clan didn't obey Ogrim. There is no person that can have 100% control over their army especially the size of the horde. Only overmind can control all his minions and even he can do it individually.

So gargoyles couldn't fly over and investigate? Empty wall isn't strange? Undead would just need to follow the refuge corpses that tried to enter Gilineas.

 

[Fussiler1]

Those two clans were controlled by Gul'dan and his apprentice. I guess they had to prepare their transportation to Tomb of Sargeras. And the Horde was divided in Clans, which all had a leader. All those leaders obeyed to Orgrim, so it was easier to controll the whole horde.

You know, Gargoyles are quite valuable. They would be needed.

 

[Misha]

Overmind? Ouo?

why sudden SC reference? Ouo

and Fuss.. noone of the orc leaders obeyed ogrim. they just.. went with him. unlike Gul'dan.

 

[VeljkoM]

Undead can resurrect a parrot and send him to spy if Gargoyles are so valuable.

Orcs followed him because they respected him. But not all were happy that he killed Blackhand. Blackhan sons even took part of the Blacrock clan and created Balcktooth Grin clan.

 

[AIagremm]

They could have just sent a shade VeljkoM.

 

[VeljkoM]

Resurrected parrot is more fun.

 

[Fussiler1]

Misha, they all did, durrhh. I mean, Orgrim commanded the Black Tooth Grin clan to fight Gul'dan at the Tomb of Sargeras. I mean, an Orc Warchief commands. It's just the way it is.
An Orc doesn't asks, he takes, for exception of shamans.

 

[VeljkoM]

Now if orcs were a disciplined army that doesn't go berserkyou would have point. There is no single leader in real life or game that can control all actions of his units.

 

[Fussiler1]

The Orcs aren't don't really have disciple, like you said. The second thing you said is too true.

Buuuuuutttt... he needed to command them when they were moving, when they needed to do something and such. By the way, there is also something called 'strategies' in a battle.

 

[VeljkoM]

Orcs were inferior to humans in discipline and were always going berserk.

Sure in battle but out side the battle? Orcs were hard to control if they don't kill something. Ask Shadow council.

 

[Fussiler1]

Duh.

.. Yes. But the Orcs wouldn't get outraged and kill each other because a foe was always nearby and a battle always coming. So Orgrim could controll them.