Why is rep still disabled in OT?

[Boris_Spider]

You guys are posting so much sense.
Disabling rep in Off-Topic (not to mention the old "Something Else" forum) was merely a way to cut back on some of the random rep being dealt. This is of course a hack and far from a solution.
We would like rep to represent the level of contribution to the modding aspect of the site rather than the popularity of certain members. But it does not.
The fact that anybody can rep for any reason changes the definition. The rep a user has represents the number of times other users have had any reason (be it for submitting a nice resource, for posting something funny or helpful or no reason at all) to give them rep. Therefore there is no reason to have it disabled in Off Topic.
I am not sure what value rep has. Why don't we just toss it out the window? What is the value of it? Discuss.

I thought it was clear how I thought it would be helpful. It seems like there is a divide between the social and modding aspects of the community. I thought it would be helpful if an authority clearly stated what the goals and purposes are for this forum.

The authority (ralle) requested feedback regarding this matter (quoted above yours)... This discussion seems to consist of two extreme sides with valid points though.

It may be more appropriate to call in a ruling.

//\\oo//\\

 

[Hakeem]

I am curious how I was equivocating though.

Perhaps. Perhaps it would drive people away.

An opinion you're unsure of is one you have to wonder why you're stating.

Well, I do, anyway. :V

I thought it was clear how I thought it would be helpful. It seems like there is a divide between the social and modding aspects of the community. I thought it would be helpful if an authority clearly stated what the goals and purposes are for this forum.

It's abundantly clear you think it would be helpful. I see no explanation of the why behind that thought, though. I could elaborate, maybe throw in an assertion or two about the goals and purposes being hard to identify, let alone verbalize, but I don't feel the need for it. All that does, if anything, is attack a founding basis of the argument before the argument has begun to exist. As it stands, I see no reason an ultimatum or clarification or other intentful statement of site direction would help further any goal whatsoever, destructive or otherwise. I think it is important to expose holes in belief systems lest we trip ourselves up by acting without basis. If a hole is not what I am observing, it should be all too easy to explain the basic reason behind "a statement."

 

[Ralle]

I have been thinking about this one, but not taken any action so far. I see this as a fork in the road. There are several ways to go about this:
1. If we really want rep to be only about modding, we have to make a rep approval system. This means you'd submit rep and a moderator would need to approve it in order for it to count. This would mean that rep should be possible to give in PMs, VMs and chat. Because no matter how you are in touch, if you help someone, you should be able to get rep.
2. We loosen up a bit and let rep be what it is with minor interference. This would be enabling rep in Off Topic along with other possible changes.
While 1 sounds intriguing, I am not sure it would be worth it. I am actually thinking more and more about just letting it be what it is without many restrictions.

 

[Edhel-dur]

I disagree with the first option. Afaik there is a general concern about the lack of moderated resources on this forum (forever pending, etc) and adding another chore to the Staff would be bad.

I'm okay with Rep as it is now, can be minor tweaks here and there (like no rep in OT).

 

[Daffa]

I disagree with the first option. Afaik there is a general concern about the lack of moderated resources on this forum (forever pending, etc) and adding another chore to the Staff would be bad.

I'm okay with Rep as it is now, can be minor tweaks here and there (like no rep in OT).

*first time enter*
Well, let me say my opinion, pretty much, I agree on Edhel-dur's comment, unless Ralle hire more staff (but this time must be extra careful) for the first one to work.

Pretty much, I think OT is better have rep disabled (to prevent trolls from repping their friends without any purpose on OT)

 

[fladdermasken]

Where do people get this idea that trolls rep people? Isn't that like, the exact opposite of what a troll wants to achieve?

And I still feel that rep is being ascribed this weird significance that it never ever ever carried. Ever. Or to quote Hakeem.

NEEEEVEEEEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrr.......!!

So the system is already flawed and if you want any significance attached to it you would probably need to reform the entire concept and enforce strict rules and regulations around it. It may have been the initial idea, but it collapsed way way back.

Rep is a euphemism for cookies nowdays, and I don't see how any problems could come of it.

 

[Hakeem]

People could make threads about it later.


If that doesn't qualify as a problem, I don't know what does. :V

 

[neo_sluf]

What if Black Death got a problem with his dog pet where he will get a help?..

In World Editor Help Zone?... Ofcourse no..

In Off-Topic?... Absolutely!!!!

Then Hakeem solve Black Death's problem..

Does Black Death must give a rep to hakeem?.. YES!

But it is on OT!.. WELL THEN ENABLE REPUTATION IN OFF-TOPIC!

 

[Cakedog345]

I sometimes get the feeling that the community requires stuff just to combat the old fashion of how things have been working so far, especially for this matter, when there is absolutely no reason to enable the Reputation feature in Off-Topic. I only see the argument of "why it was disabled in the first place?", but that only generates a contradiction; it doesn't give reasons to enable it.

Similarly to what has been said by Ralle or Archian, Reputation should reflect (in an average level) the helpfulness of a user. Whether it is consistent as it is, it doesn't matter, at least in this discussion, which constantly derails to the importance of Reputation overall.

Right!
I wonder, why for a very simple thing to understand, is maintained so laborious and meaningless discussion.
Pharaoh argued quite clear and understandable.
Without wanting to offend anyone, this thread looks like it was made out of boredom and just to pass the time.

 

[I3lackDeath]

Does Black Death must give a rep to hakeem?.. YES!

Horrendous grammar aswell as argument.
Reputation is optional, just to let you know.

fladder has made a very good point, and this thread doesn't seem to produce any new arguments. Unsubscribing.

 

[Linaze]

What if Black Death got a problem with his dog pet where he will get a help?..

In World Editor Help Zone?... Ofcourse no..

In Off-Topic?... Absolutely!!!!

Then Hakeem solve Black Death's problem..

Does Black Death must give a rep to hakeem?.. YES!

But it is on OT!.. WELL THEN ENABLE REPUTATION IN OFF-TOPIC!

While this post might come off as rather retarded at first sight, it actually makes quite a bit of sense and summarizes my stance on this "issue" pretty well.

 

[Rui]

(...) this thread looks like it was made out of boredom and just to pass the time

I think whoever decided to give rep a meaning was bored and then became more bored when attempting to apply (IMO in the worst manner possible, as I have stated) theory to the practical.
This thread seems to indicate that many people got bored as a result.
Conclusion? More dedication and originality required!

 

[Linaze]

Horrendous grammar aswell as argument.
Reputation is optional, just to let you know.

fladder has made a very good point, and this thread doesn't seem to produce any new arguments. Unsubscribing.

Not only do you come off as a horseshit idiot, but you've also failed to give a satisfying reponse to several of the arguments actually provided earlier in this thread.

Regardless, you've most likely not grown much smarter since your last few posts and thus won't be likely to try to be more open-minded on this issue. Unsubscribing.

 

[Ralle]

I will stay here and see what people have to post on the subject. Definitely not unsubscribing.

I found neo_sluf's post both entertaining and a clear example of the downside of rep being disabled in OT.

This point was posted many times already. But I still have a hope of rep having a meaning. Call it a pipedream. Back when it was disabled in OT, a lot of the rep given there was for no apparent reason. In fact, most of the rep was like that. So the immediate reaction was to disable rep there.

We had our reasons. Those are not to be dismissed without going over them cautiously.

 

[gorillabull]

What if Black Death got a problem with his dog pet where he will get a help?..

In World Editor Help Zone?... Ofcourse no..

In Off-Topic?... Absolutely!!!!

Then Hakeem solve Black Death's problem..

Does Black Death must give a rep to hakeem?.. YES!

But it is on OT!.. WELL THEN ENABLE REPUTATION IN OFF-TOPIC!

please.. there is not a single useful post in offtopic if one likes to keep rep as a measure to how useful a person is rep should be disabled there because posts in offtopic have nothing to do with modding

 

[Boris_Spider]

please.. there is not a single useful post in offtopic if one likes to keep rep as a measure to how useful a person is rep should be disabled there because posts in offtopic have nothing to do with modding

I find anything that makes me laugh and/or cheer me up to be useful. Advice on RL (these thread are quite common) can also be useful (and considered spam outside of OT).

//\\oo//\\

 

[Hakeem]

Reputation is optional, just to let you know.

You heard the man. Cough up the rep you owe me or I'll start charging interest. We both know the only thing worse than debt is viral multiplying debt.

We had our reasons. Those are not to be dismissed without going over them cautiously.

You mean as how the reasons here now were dismissed when the decision was first made?

It's not exactly like that, I don't fault the decision for being made; nothing would come of doing so. I am very much fond of looking at it like this, though:

Why can't we rep in OT?!?!

Who in their right mind decided it was okay to allow rep to be given to posts posted in OT?!?!

The two statements are not equivalent in my mind. I can't see very many threads being created with the sole purpose of complaining about rep being spread in OT. I can, on the other hand, see people periodically complaining about rep being disabled in arbitrary places.

I think this is a powerful decision making tool: Look at what both worlds would be like; one with the change, one without, and reflect on who would do what in either case. If everyone would ultimately behave in exactly the same way as they do now in the changed world, by all means, change. It doesn't matter either way because the effect has no bearing on anyone.

I keep seeing intelligent people making this mistake when I bring up anarchy. "What problems would anarchy have?" "X, Y, and Z." "Those problems exist on the governed side of the fence too."

It really couldn't be any more simple than posing the polar opposite hypothetical to yourself instead of just the one hypothetical.

offtopic have nothing to do with modding

Neither does the concept of reputation, to be perfectly fair.

 

[fladdermasken]

But I still have a hope of rep having a meaning. Call it a pipedream.

It's also flypaper for rep drama. I'm curious, back when it was enabled, did people ever complain about it?

Back when it was disabled in OT, a lot of the rep given there was for no apparent reason. In fact, most of the rep was like that.

I thought Hakeem would bite but I guess I will have to dig through the archives.

Yeah, uhh, I don't know how to break this to you, but all rep is gained through prostitution or other illicit means.


INB4REPPED FOR TALKING ABOUT IT.

So the immediate reaction was to disable rep there.

It doesn't really work like that. Say you have a spam forum and you don't like spam, the obvious answer is to remove the spam forum. But you're not actually removing the spam. You're relocating it. It's like when you have stray bread crumbs on your kitchen table and you brush them off. It's not like they're gone; they're still on the floor.

 

[Linaze]

It's not like they're gone; they're still on the floor.

Say WHAT? This whole time I believed... wow, a thing like that.

 

[LastMessager]

I just had to tell you one goodmorning, since you didn't wake up FFS. Okay, the forum, using Vbulletin has much better functions than CurseGaming's forum. But still, look at how rep works there:

- People barely get rep, when they do, it is in most cases because the forum is entirely focused on mapmaking, the offtopic and other stuff is so little that no one uses it. The like system is not abused because the community is more PRO than you here - it doesn't hurry to rep every single time anyone because he said smth stupid.

'Like' is rarely used there, does not have any 'look I have 5000 reputation of epenis' and instead even the most helpful have like 300 cause people don't feel the need to rep every time someone says 'Ah' and the ones who get the reputation don't care either.

So where is the problem - the community, it's silly posts and 'I want rep' - if you didn't think and worship that stupid rep and made it some shiny form of epenis, no one would care about it. In a few words: Fcking grow up and change the rep system, or else - continue with nonsense like this one.

 

[SA Dashie]

^Hey.
Who said that I am "helpful"?
Also if entertaining and cheerful, those kinds of people can actually help the 'helpful' people with a little fun drive.
We don't give out rep meaninglessly either. They go out to people who think that the sender thinks they deserve it. Those people in the off-topic that have "infinitz" rep are the people that in pretty much all cases if not all have deserved it in some form of way..

Edit: He removed his post just to say. :\