Why do you hate DOTA..??

[Adiktuz]

Just a curious question, how can another AoS map be completely unique in terms of gameplay? they are AoS because they have the same general gameplay... haha...

 

[Afisti]

On top of that, the Internationale championship for DotA 2 was the highest cash prize for a game tournament ever, with Na'Vi taking home 1 million dollars.

Please don't just hate on DotA when you obviously don't know shit about it.

Dude, that's one of the darkest days of videogaming.
This marks a shift from casual playing for fun to this competitive nerdy shit.
I don't blame the game, but the direction the gaming industry is taking, focusing on all this competitive and balanced gaming and don't giving a fuck about lore, atmosphere, story, etc..
You just have a bunch of guys punching at each other, that IS GOOD for a mod or for a short game, while it sucks for a stand alone.
This doesn't mean every game must be like zelda or FF or something, look at Halo: epic story into an epic online gameplay.
These guys at Valve are taking a FREE mod and are saying: "ok dudes we are giving you the same old shit with new graphics, now give us the money".
Blizzard did (nearly) the same with SC2.
Now, because of some guys that are good at videogames and don't like change we should play Dota 5, SC4, COD 27 and Counter Strike 89 for the rest of our lives?
LoL did the same, but christ, at least they changed every hero, much of the mechanics and did something more than porting something you already have for free.

P.S. the rumor that it's free does basically mean that you have to unlock heroes and such with points earned by playing or paying, so it's not free at all.

And Joe black: no this thread is not going nowhere, we're just bitching around.

 

[HFR]

We should or we could?

Nobody's forced to play these games.

 

[Adiktuz]

the rumor that it's free does basically mean that you have to unlock heroes and such with points earned by playing or paying, so it's not free at all.
->and that's a rumor too...

and yeah, if you don't want the game, don't play... nobody is forcing you... very simple like that...

than porting something you already have for free.
->yeah the DotA map is free but you need to buy wc3 first... so if DotA 2 will be sold for a one-time fee then that is just the same method as the DotA map... unless you're a fan of piracy...

 

[HFR]

Most wc3 copies used to play dota are pirated anyway.

 

[Jazztastic]

Dude, that's one of the darkest days of videogaming.
This marks a shift from casual playing for fun to this competitive nerdy shit.
I don't blame the game, but the direction the gaming industry is taking, focusing on all this competitive and balanced gaming and don't giving a fuck about lore, atmosphere, story, etc..
You just have a bunch of guys punching at each other, that IS GOOD for a mod or for a short game, while it sucks for a stand alone.
This doesn't mean every game must be like zelda or FF or something, look at Halo: epic story into an epic online gameplay.
These guys at Valve are taking a FREE mod and are saying: "ok dudes we are giving you the same old shit with new graphics, now give us the money".
Blizzard did (nearly) the same with SC2.
Now, because of some guys that are good at videogames and don't like change we should play Dota 5, SC4, COD 27 and Counter Strike 89 for the rest of our lives?
LoL did the same, but christ, at least they changed every hero, much of the mechanics and did something more than porting something you already have for free.

P.S. the rumor that it's free does basically mean that you have to unlock heroes and such with points earned by playing or paying, so it's not free at all.

And Joe black: no this thread is not going nowhere, we're just bitching around.

Baseball used to be played purely for the enjoyment of the sport. Now it's played professionally for money. Is baseball sick to you? Has it taken a wrong turn? And any game that pits two players/teams against each other is competetive. Does Pacman disgust you? Are people whoring themselves out to get the high score of 3,360,000?

There is story in DotA. Each of the heroes has about 8 sentences of backstory, also introducing abilities. It's hard to a PvP game to include story, simply because of how the game is designed. As far as lore goes the Halo 3 multiplayer did not include a single piece of information relevant to the campaign. Of course the items, equipment, and locations match up, simply because they are the same game, but it doesn't add a single thing to the story. Please try and tell me that isn't true.

Yes please tell me more that SC2 was a rip-off of a mod, and Blizzard took the mod and made it a game. SC1 definitely wasn't a Blizzard game so we should pretty much just sue them.

Valve is making significant improvements to utilities in DotA 2 to improve gameplay and enjoyment. If you haven't played DotA 2, PLEASE stop talking about it like you do. Let's give some examples of improvements

Glyph on interface instead of on circle
Full screen hero pick
Streamlined buying system
Better replay system
Matchmaking dependant on skill instead of random matchups
Easier to join games with friends
Continuous stat tracking
Player feedback + reports
​

And even if it does cost money, it won't be the only free mod Valve has taken and made a profit off of. Counterstrike ring any bells? But last time I checked the CS community was thriving, and no one was complaining or giving a shit because the game was too hard, or the community wasn't friendly, or because it was too competetive. CS gives a perfect example of what DotA 2 will feel like.

That's a pretty wild accusation that we don't ever get new things because people stick to the same old. Companies will continue to pump out games because people will buy them. That doesn't mean that the gaming community and developers are becoming jaded. Little gems like Braid are still being made and played, in fact, Braid sits atop my all-time favorite games list because it had fucking amazing gameplay and the deepest, most symbolic story I've ever witnessed.

LoL didn't port anything. There were a lot of similar ideas in the game as other AoS', but that doesn't mean it was ported.

 

[Adiktuz]

I sense he don't play DotA at all... how can you miss those long lines of story for each hero...

more things about DotA 2:

you can easily reconnect if you get disconnected
courier automatically shared
and oh, you can write on the minimap

and who says you cannot play the DotA map just for the fun of it? of course tourneys are competitive because they are tournaments... but can you only play in tourneys dude? it's like saying that you cannot play baseball or any other "competitive" sport outside of the competitive scene... that's why we have friends dude, so we can have somebody to play with even if its just for the fun of it...

seriously, if this how you think, you better get out of gaming and do something more worthwhile in the real world...

 

[Kas]

i reason i hate DotA is also the reason i hate LoL, i suck at it

 

[Supernatural_Being]

Yea...why do we make a new style of playing a map in Warcraft 3 that people would surely like and play, like AOS, For me I have Hero Rampage Arena in my project. The bad thing is DOTA used all the MODELS in Warcraft 3 so I might use custom models and that make my file size bigger which is another CONS... But the PRO is the whole new style of Map Gaming.. But it will be released on 2014... DOTA is pathetic but with your help guys we can pull DOTA down to the ground.... If you are interested in my venture please VM me.... Money is waiting for anyone who joins.....

 

[Supernatural_Being]

i reason i hate DotA is also the reason i hate LoL, i suck at it

Yup all AOS maps sucks..... DOTA 2, LOL, HON, DotA, and whatever.....

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

It's like I have to repeat the same story as in one SC2 thread but this time about Dota.

Dude, that's one of the darkest days of videogaming.
This marks a shift from casual playing for fun to this competitive nerdy shit.
I don't blame the game, but the direction the gaming industry is taking, focusing on all this competitive and balanced gaming and don't giving a fuck about lore, atmosphere, story, etc..

Face it, some earn MONEY out of it, they need to be rewarded because you've poker, you've got national sports, you've got chess, why not have esports? It is actually a wonderful thing that happened and occured. 'Darkest days'.. LOL

The majority of the community here are teens, so I bet it is coming from no other... I assure you, grow up and such mind games as esports and yes even in Dota is times more awesome. Actually playing and trying to outplay your opponent is times more fun, than playing ALONE or on some boring RPG with some randoms...

Once internet came, people started playing VS each other, that became very interesting, it's actually using your brain and it's good.

Because the same interest of who will beat who and HOW that comes with esports, it's in tennis, in soccer, it's all the same. And in esports you can be one of those playing, while in tennis or soccer, well you've got to devote your life to it pretty much, so you won't see yourself the one playing vs top player lol.

Now, because of some guys that are good at videogames and don't like change we should play Dota 5, SC4, COD 27 and Counter Strike 89 for the rest of our lives?

Is anyone FORCING you to do any of that if you do not like it??? Aren't there enough places for fun? Blame how they made lore, not esports. But it is quite normal that something where people play to be more focused on improving than Lore. Lore - killed Arthas, killed Deathwing, killed the ancestors of Diablo - Cool story bro? Like what's the purpose? Game #10 based on Lore 50 years after the first stories... making a book? No, competining is the real deal.

Look at Diablo 3 - this is a sexually abused story, I don't see what else could be when the 3 Prime Evils are done with, I find the storyline weak. If WoW continues, it will get the same. Like movies with too many series may become boring.

That's why I've a dislike for casuals, cause they post on their noobness behalf, whatever isn't FUN for THEM is bad. Have you known any pro players to call them nerds? I do know some and they have hot girl-friends and are pretty cool guys, not some big-glasses acne dorks... - some are in their 20s and WORK too.. Instead of 'I have no friends, be my friend on forum' - they don't use forums (which I will stop doing too cause such like you piss me off), they either train or go social in the rest of the time. Go read some interviews with them...

It's the same subjectivity I am bad, therefore it's all bad. Got to love someone bitching about smth he doesn't even understand.

 

[Kas]

Yup all AOS maps sucks..... DOTA 2, LOL, HON, DotA, and whatever.....

it certainly seemes like that doesnt it

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

It is just REALLY borring and with stupid terrain interface for such a popular game. There are no really interersting systems exapt invokers spellcrafting. Everithing macro u need to win - to know PERFECTLY all items and heroes, micro - some reaction and skill of using almost EVERY skill in game. I also hate it because when guy who doesn't play WC3/ plays dota (same things for me) sees WC3 he says smth like "this is dota. I think it is cool". And it doesn't make people teamplaying, it makes them to steal creeps. Dota is just another game for nerdy guys as every AOS is.

 

[Jazztastic]

It is just REALLY borring and with stupid terrain interface for such a popular game. There are no really interersting systems exapt invokers spellcrafting. Everithing macro u need to win - to know PERFECTLY all items and heroes, micro - some reaction and skill of using almost EVERY skill in game. I also hate it because when guy who doesn't play WC3/ plays dota (same things for me) sees WC3 he says smth like "this is dota. I think it is cool". And it doesn't make people teamplaying, it makes them to steal creeps. Dota is just another game for nerdy guys as every AOS is.

Playing ladder requires 10x the micro DotA does.

I also love how you immediately hate something you're bad at. Maybe you should try next time to get better at a game instead of giving up and instantly hating it. It turns out that giving up immediately once you reach something hard causes you to work at Mcdonalds.

Not all guys who play AoS games and MOBA's are nerds. Don't stereotype people. Ever. It makes you look like a 12 yr old little shit who thinks the world is exactly how he sees it on television. I play DotA and I'm not some big glasses acne'd up little twerp either. There is so much more to my life then simply DotA. Because I enjoy DotA doesn't mean I hate all other video games either. It means I love ultra competetive games and love the challenge. I've played DotA for a few years. I sometimes get schooled in pubs. It happens, you learn from your mistake and you try to play better next time.

If you don't think DotA is a team game you're just a fucking dipshit and there is not anything anyone can do for you.

 

[Adiktuz]

And it doesn't make people teamplaying, it makes them to steal creeps.

Another loner player who doesn't know how to play as a team...

I also love how you immediately hate something you're bad at.

well, most DotA haters are those who got pawned by other players so bad during their first few games... meaning the people who easily quits when they get a little problem in life...

 

[Kas]

well, most DotA haters are those who got pawned by other players so bad during their first few games... meaning the people who easily quits when they get a little problem in life...

aw crap, he is on to me

 

[andreariona]

too mainstream.
jk, I just stopped playing it when I was started to know WE.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

Another loner player who doesn't know how to play as a team...

Well, I know, how to play as team, just some games require it and some - no. For example "parasit" or "metastasis" are making people to cooperate to survive.

Maybe you should try next time to get better at a game instead of giving up and instantly hating it.

Have I said I gave up instantly and was playing badly?
I just don't like games which require knolledge of THEM most of all.

This map is also borring for me as mapper cuz there is nothing interesting and all systems are primitive as I already said.

 

[Adiktuz]

and for you DotA doesn't need teamplay?

How do you play a game if you don't have knowledge of them?

 

[Jazztastic]

Well, I know, how to play as team, just some games require it and some - no. For example "parasit" or "metastasis" are making people to cooperate to survive.





Have I said I gave up instantly and was playing badly?
I just don't like games which require knolledge of THEM most of all.

This map is also borring for me as mapper cuz there is nothing interesting and all systems are primitive as I already said.

You have to play as a team in DotA or you lose. Simple as that

You have to know how any game works before you play it. You don't have to memorize every single little thing though. In ladder play you don't have to know every number and factoid of interaction between abilities, but it certainly helps you win.

No you didn't say you gave up and hated it instantly. But the fact that you have spent the time to bitch about it in this thread suggests that you don't play it (you dislike it after all) and you obviously dislike it.

You are obviously misinformed about the game since you think it had hard micro. It doesn't. The only hero who requires even a tiny bit of micro is Chen. Unless your definition if MICROMANAGEMENT is "paying attention only to a single guy".

If the game has primitive systems why do you suck at it? And I use the phrase suck because if you hate it you obviously are incredibly bad at it. Is it because systems don't make or break a game? Is it that way with terrain to? Does the terrain serve as a functional, non-flashy tool? Maybe there are other reasons as to why there have been choices in DotA. Ignoring terrain, unneeded systems, and imports for models frees up a LOT of space. Keeping the systems simple gives more depth to fights, lane control, and placement. I'd much rather have the current depth of the game then add in a flaky spellpower system or some shitty skill tree progression.

 

[Vunjo]

I do agree with Adictuz, but it is indeed kill stealing game. It's really lame when I see someone waiting for creeps to reach 10% of health, then to finish it off. AoS is meant for heroes to support all creeps, and challenge the enemy heroes, here, it's just fighting enemy heroes (at least at start of the game, first 10 minutes).

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

This seems to be a major misunderstanding, that beeing a pro at Melee or Dota or some other game is done by some nerdy looking guys with big glasses and acne and talking through their front teeth, LOL. Idk about Dotaers but the players I've seen and I know some personally look smart and cool, just because only some Koreans look dorky... doesn't mean EUs are so, or Americans or even all Asians. The majority are normal cool looking guys.

Playing and outplaying your opponent is something that requires brain contrary to what some think, and more than doing maps. It is not fun for them because it requires thinking (ugh shouldn't humans use their brains even for GAMES or they should be pressing 1 button games?). But I tell you, it's fun to outplay others. Makes you feel the victory.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

You have to know how any game works before you play it. You don't have to memorize every single little thing though. In ladder play you don't have to know every number and factoid of interaction between abilities, but it certainly helps you win.

If you play a random hero (most players like this) you need to know every hero not to suck just because of randomness.

You are obviously misinformed about the game since you think it had hard micro. It doesn't. The only hero who requires even a tiny bit of micro is Chen. Unless your definition if MICROMANAGEMENT is "paying attention only to a single guy".

I was meaning creepstealing for example. Need of micro itself isn't a bad thing, needlessness of brain is.

If the game has primitive systems why do you suck at it? And I use the phrase suck because if you hate it you obviously are incredibly bad at it. Is it because systems don't make or break a game? Is it that way with terrain to? Does the terrain serve as a functional, non-flashy tool? Maybe there are other reasons as to why there have been choices in DotA. Ignoring terrain, unneeded systems, and imports for models frees up a LOT of space. Keeping the systems simple gives more depth to fights, lane control, and placement. I'd much rather have the current depth of the game then add in a flaky spellpower system or some shitty skill tree progression.

Why do u think i sucked at it? Now mb, cuz i haven't played it for 4-5 years. I was meaning there are no system which is atractive just by itself. About terrain - frog could make a better one in such a long period of time. It can be really functional btw. And won't you agree it is primitive?

This seems to be a major misunderstanding, that beeing a pro at Melee or Dota or some other game is done by some nerdy looking guys with big glasses and acne and talking through their front teeth, LOL. Idk about Dotaers but the players I've seen and I know some personally look smart and cool, just because only some Koreans look dorky... doesn't mean EUs are so, or Americans or even all Asians. The majority are normal cool looking guys.

Playing and outplaying your opponent is something that requires brain contrary to what some think, and more than doing maps. It is not fun for them because it requires thinking (ugh shouldn't humans use their brains even for GAMES or they should be pressing 1 button games?). But I tell you, it's fun to outplay others. Makes you feel the victory.

Nah, no casual rpg/action needs thinking a lot. Only rogue-likes, strategies and tactic games need. Without thinking it is just a way to waste your time.
Dota requires more thinking than doing maps? Have you ever made one? Is it popular? I don't think so if u say smth like that.

And btw, most players don't think, they just read guides made by someone else.
And it makes people hating each other when some of them makes a mistake. Half of my friends playing dota banned each other after couple of disputes about heroes/items/skills/etc.

My summary opinion: it is just a borring wate of time making loosing guy angy.

 

[Hemske]

I do agree with Adictuz, but it is indeed kill stealing game. It's really lame when I see someone waiting for creeps to reach 10% of health, then to finish it off. AoS is meant for heroes to support all creeps, and challenge the enemy heroes, here, it's just fighting enemy heroes (at least at start of the game, first 10 minutes).

This is simply your take on AOS maps. Also, am I wrong when I say that I believe you haven't played that much dota, maybe only a couple of games?

It is quite full of tactical decisions, pushing, farming, ganking. The thing that makes dota so fun is that each game is never the same and that you have so much different things to do, you must wait for the right time to do the right thing. There is tons of different roles on each different hero, and each hero is playable in so many different ways.

It is though, fairly unfriendly towards new playes. It doesn't become as great as I find it until you know every item and every hero's behaviour.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

It is quite full of tactical decisions, pushing, farming, ganking.

That's shit not a tactic, Jagged Alliance 1&2 require tactics, HoMM 1-6 require tactics, almost any strategy requires u forging tactics in real-time. This one just makes u to use a couple of well-known ideas when needed.

The thing that makes dota so fun is that each game is never the same and that you have so much different things to do,

you must wait for the right time to do the right thing.

Just doing everything in some order makes nothing interesting or different. And for me just every game is similar to another, I see no difference between them.

There is tons of different roles on each different hero, and each hero is playable in so many different ways.

It is though, fairly unfriendly towards new playes. It doesn't become as great as I find it until you know every item and every hero's behaviour.

That is just nerd type of games - you need to know a lot about it for it to be playable. That is not a pro, is it?

 

[Adiktuz]

Nah, no casual rpg/action needs thinking a lot.
->Then you're not much of a gamer or at least you only really play those games which just need you to click... If that is the case, I understand why you would not like to play something like DotA...

If you play a random hero (most players like this) you need to know every hero not to suck just because of randomness.
->Then don't play random hero...

but it is indeed kill stealing game. It's really lame when I see someone waiting for creeps to reach 10% of health, then to finish it off.
->That's the player's strategy, don't blame the game for something that the users created

cuz i haven't played it for 4-5 years
->then you've missed a lot, so much that I don't think your arguments would make sense... especially when it comes to the gameplay... I mean how can you describe the game's gameplay when you haven't even played for almost 5 years now???

And btw, most players don't think, they just read guides made by someone else.
->Then they aren't real players, coz real players play something using their own effort



This just proves that most haters don't play it much or got pawned on their early days and quitted... Seriously, before you hate something try to learn why people love it first... That way, you will have better understanding and maybe if you still hate, better arguments...

and oh, if you hate trashtalks, play either with your friends only or play with bots... DotA has AI versions for a reason you know?

 

[Hemske]

@drizzt,
Didn't say something about tactical games, but tactical decisions, and the gameplay consist of it. That's a fact.

Doing everything in a static order is not the way Dota is played. Then I suppose you haven't been playing enough, or not even given it a chance. What I just wrote applies to why you see every game as the same as well.

Never said anything about pro. Also, I don't know about you, but I find most games to not being fun until you understand it. Just because dota has a more steep learning curve than lots of games does not make it a lesser game.

Also, you said you haven't been playing it for 4-5 years, it has happened quite a lot with the game since then, I can assure you.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

Nah, no casual rpg/action needs thinking a lot.
->Then you're not much of a gamer or at least you only really play those games which just need you to click... If that is the case, I understand why you would not like to play something like DotA...

I was meaning a comparison to intellect-bassed games like strategies, rogue-likes and tactics. Don't tear frases from context ignoring their meaning please

If you play a random hero (most players like this) you need to know every hero not to suck just because of randomness.
->Then don't play random hero...

90% times host writes -ar...

This just proves that most haters don't play it much or got pawned on their early days and quitted...

I played it for about a year~
I don't really hate it, I just think it is borring. I hate only the thing that noobs(many doters doters too) think that wc3 is just a dota, don't u think they don't?

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

Just because dota has a more steep learning curve than lots of games does not make it a lesser game.

Lol, comparing to Dwarf Fortress or event any other rogue-like game (I play them a lot) dota learning curve is just a horisontal line.

P.S.: As I said I played it for a year~.

 

[Adiktuz]

I hate noob players who think DotA = wc3, but not DotA... why hate a game over something that it has no control over?

90% times host writes -ar...
->then play with friends, that's the best solution... or study each and every hero...

Actually, you only need to study a few of each hero type (STR,AGI,INT) plus the items... after that its pretty easy to learn any other hero...

I'm sure of it coz most of my friends don't play other games before (meaning having no previous experiences in other games don't thwart your chances of being good) and now they are playing wc3 for only about a month but they got pretty good already...

 

[Hemske]

90% times host writes -ar...

Host yourself then.

I played it for about a year~
I don't really hate it, I just think it is borring. I hate only the thing that noobs(many doters doters too) think that wc3 is just a dota, don't u think they don't?

Blame the people, not the map.

Lol, comparing to Dwarf Fortress or event any other rogue-like game (I play them a lot) dota learning curve is just a horisontal line.

I didn't mean that dota has the steepest learning curve out there. God no.
But I have no idea what kind of game Dwarf Fortress is, but I bet you didn't find it fun before you learned how to properly play it, am I right?

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

I bet you didn't find it fun before you learned how to properly play it, am I right?

You are wrong, I found it intresting even before I played it because it is unique. At least it is obviously most reallistic strategy ever existed with most powerfull health and relationship systems I saw (about relations - don't ask if I had played sims - yes). You are missing a lot if u haven't tried it. You can read about it here if you want:
http://dwarffortresswiki.org
But that was oftopic, exuse me for that.

As i said I just find dota borring in every way. And I am sure I missed many changes in that 5 years, but I don't think that affected badly on me...


@Adiktuz
I hate people who thinks smth like WC3 -> dota, but not dota -> WC3, cuz dota is subset of WC3 map set and it can't exist without wc3.

P.S.:

Blame the people, not the map.

- I am blaming people not map in this aspect -.- You can re-read my posts if you don't think so.



Btw, don't think I ignore your next posts - I am gtg atm and will be back only in evening so I'll read them later if you will write anything

 

[Hemske]

You are wrong, I found it intresting even before I played it because it is unique. At least it is obviously most reallistic strategy ever existed with most powerfull health and relationship systems I saw (about relations - don't ask if I had played sims - yes). You are missing a lot if u haven't tried it. You can read about it here if you want:
http://dwarffortresswiki.org
But that was oftopic, exuse me for that.

As i said I just find dota borring in every way. And I am sure I missed many changes in that 5 years, but I don't think that affected badly on me...

I'll be sure to check it out.

Well, you are free to your own opinion about dota, and there is no use for me to try to convince you otherwise.

I think you shouldn't judge it as a bad game though just because it does not appeal to you, now days it does have a vast amount of functions, roles, gameplay or strategies to explore within it compared to how it was in earlier versions.

- I am blaming people not map in this aspect -.- You can re-read my posts if you don't think so.

Well, actually I am having a hard time to read your post in any other way than that you are actually blaming the map. It sounds like the map is the thing that makes people behave like that. Might just be me missunderstanding you though. If you do blame the people and not the map in any way, then we can close the discussion of that specific subject.

 

[Adiktuz]

Ooh, realism again...

For me I don't care about realism in fantasy games or whatever that the human mind has constructed that is basically a fantasy... It is called fantasy because it can defy the truth and logic of this world...

I think you shouldn't judge it as a bad game though just because it does not appeal to you,
->sadly that is how this world goes, even reviews and critics are based on biases... that's why I don't believe in reviews and critics, I always take a look at it myself...

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

Hey, have i said it is a bad game??? May be some pedofilic homosexual simulator is a bad game. I said dota is borring for ME and told why it is.
About realism. I think no fantasy world must loose logic and realism. Fantasy is just making other physical basement like adding a god to world or magic or smth else. Logic must exist everywhere. In my opinion, if world has e.g. magic and it is not described WHY it has magic and HOW does it work - such fantasy is not interesting for me. As example of imho (and not only my) good fantasy - Dragons&Dungeons - expetially Forgotten Realms setting.

Btw, small oftopic, this tons of misunderstanding is just the thing why I don't like english language - it is ugly for me. Just simple language to speak with nothing special and lack of possibilities.

 

[Adiktuz]

so magic is realistic? dragons are realistic? orcs are realistic?

logic maybe, but realism, nope...

 

[Vunjo]

This is simply your take on AOS maps. Also, am I wrong when I say that I believe you haven't played that much dota, maybe only a couple of games?

It is quite full of tactical decisions, pushing, farming, ganking. The thing that makes dota so fun is that each game is never the same and that you have so much different things to do, you must wait for the right time to do the right thing. There is tons of different roles on each different hero, and each hero is playable in so many different ways.

It is though, fairly unfriendly towards new playes. It doesn't become as great as I find it until you know every item and every hero's behaviour.

Now you have a wrong theory. Just because I hate the map, doesn't mean I wasn't playing it, and that I am not pro in it. I was playing it for a long time (couple of years actually). The part when I said that players do not attack creeps at the beginning of game is not my vision. It's reality on garena. I do not know for battlenet, or any other gaming zone, but on garena, players do not strike creeps all the time. Congratulations to the exceptions.

So many things to do? Indeed, tactics, and ways of killing/supporting or whatever, else, nothing. It is an AoS map, so I guess it's alright for a map.
Although above thing is fine, I can't agree that it always ends up differently. It's either you win, or lose. Most of the time, it's 1 hero per team that is overpowered, the others are just helping him (Now I said most, not all the time).

Each hero can indeed be played in lots of ways, but that doesn't make a certain hero have "tons of roles" like you said. I am sure there are no more roles than 5 per each hero, which is far from "ton".

 

[Adiktuz]

Mostly if you don't play on a team, one or two gets OP

5 roles per hero is already a huge number actually... I wonder how long would it take for you to be good at all those 5 roles?


but on garena, players do not strike creeps all the time. Congratulations to the exceptions.
->Me! I hit creeps all the time coz it makes them die faster... and its easier to just hit H than to time your attacks...

but seriously, all these things are made by the players not by the game... It is how they wanted to play the game and it was never dictated by the game itself... so blame those players not the game... hating the game for the strategies that the players developed is nonsense...

its like those hating an online game I was playing right now just because of the bad economy that the players induced...

So far the only reasons for hating that I saw in this thread which are actually map related are:
1)Terrain is bad
2)Systems are old

the others are player related already...

 

[MGCǂSpectre]

Nah, no casual rpg/action needs thinking a lot. Only rogue-likes, strategies and tactic games need. Without thinking it is just a way to waste your time.
Dota requires more thinking than doing maps? Have you ever made one? Is it popular? I don't think so if u say smth like that.

True, true, I don't play RPGs too I was talking about melee. But even in Dota it would be fun outplaying the opponents, now I'm not into it. I am in SC2 melee, so I don't really care how it is in Dota. I don't do public mapmaking but I see it can be pleasure which is why I do it from time to time, making my Promotion System map cause I was basing it off the real one, did require lot of thinking to figure out.

And yes I was using a guide when playing Dota and when I played Sotis (aka SC2's Dota made by vjeux) I used a guide to learn the item combinations and which first, guess what - people choose the IMBA heroes rather than the one they like. So with my supporter hero on Sotis (same was in Dota if I chose intelligence hero), ofc I could never be from the most powerful unless the opponents are complete noobs.

When I played with supporter heroes, the ones kicking ass in Dota and Sotis were always the one with lots of HP and Agility, and tanks. In Dota intelligence hero at late game was weak and the moment to kill many was early but late game - all Str Agi heroes became tanks, one would have to waste all their ultis on a single tank hero lol.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

So far the only reasons for hating that I saw in this thread which are actually map related are:
1)Terrain is bad
2)Systems are old

the others are player related already...

Wait, what about reason not to play it: "there is nothing spetial"? And i didn't say systems are old - I said they are common.

so magic is realistic? dragons are realistic? orcs are realistic?

logic maybe, but realism, nope...

By realism I son't mean things existing in our world. I was meaning it is logicaly based on physics of that wolrd.

Example of realism: DnD - there is... hm... I don't know correct english word... Deities there gain energy when people pray them and they [deities] spread that energy all over the world and its inhabitants can use it. And both deities and world itself were created by a greater god, whose "biogphy" is unknown.

Example of dota:
1)u take a sword, bad shield and a piece of tree
2)...
3)u get a imba shield
4)...
5)Profit! (joke)

 

[Adiktuz]

Then we have different meanings for realism... So we cannot and won't ever reach the same conclusion...

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

True, true, I don't play RPGs too I was talking about melee. But even in Dota it would be fun outplaying the opponents, now I'm not into it. I am in SC2 melee, so I don't really care how it is in Dota. I don't do public mapmaking but I see it can be pleasure which is why I do it from time to time, making my Promotion System map cause I was basing it off the real one, did require lot of thinking to figure out.

And yes I was using a guide when playing Dota and when I played Sotis (aka SC2's Dota made by vjeux) I used a guide to learn the item combinations and which first, guess what - people choose the IMBA heroes rather than the one they like. So with my supporter hero on Sotis (same was in Dota if I chose intelligence hero), ofc I could never be from the most powerful unless the opponents are complete noobs.

When I played with supporter heroes, the ones kicking ass in Dota and Sotis were always the one with lots of HP and Agility, and tanks. In Dota intelligence hero at late game was weak and the moment to kill many was early but late game - all Str Agi heroes became tanks, one would have to waste all their ultis on a single tank hero lol.

I like SC2 too, but in fact I don't play melee really cool. Not good at all I think, cuz I haven't played it a lot and ususually I don't play RTS with direct controll a lot, cuz it needs a very good APM.
About mapping - just same thing.
About last part - I was meaning exactly that when told about lack of teamplay and similarity of games. In team-based maps map engine makes people to walk and do everithing together - not to split and steal creeps. For example in Gaias ORPG or TKoK - only tanks can tank well, only DDs can deal phisical dmg well, supports make game easier for everyone and mages can harm enemies with magic perfectly.

Then we have different meanings for realism... So we cannot and won't ever reach the same conclusion...

Sure.

 

[Vunjo]

If that's the case, then we have different views of DotA, you as a map, me as the community. I do not understand, or see a reason just to hate a simple map, it's the people that make it worse.

I am glad at least THW members are exceptions, by damaging the creeps constantly.

 

[Hemske]

Now you have a wrong theory. Just because I hate the map, doesn't mean I wasn't playing it, and that I am not pro in it.

I do not know for battlenet, or any other gaming zone, but on garena, players do not strike creeps all the time.

These statements are saying different things. If you don't suck at dota, then you would know that auto-attacking creeps is one of the worst thing to do in order to ruin your lane.

So many things to do? Indeed, tactics, and ways of killing/supporting or whatever, else, nothing. It is an AoS map, so I guess it's alright for a map.
Although above thing is fine, I can't agree that it always ends up differently. It's either you win, or lose. Most of the time, it's 1 hero per team that is overpowered, the others are just helping him (Now I said most, not all the time).

It has such big impact on when you do certain things, Is it time to push right now? Is it time to gank? Is it time to kill roshan? Etc. And all of these different decisions have major impact on the game depending on when and how they are done.

Also, dota is a game that shines within competetive play, just as tf2. Normal casual players are mostly just playing random games, and that is far from as interesting as real cw/games.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

If that's the case, then we have different views of DotA, you as a map, me as the community. I do not understand, or see a reason just to hate a simple map, it's the people that make it worse.

I am glad at least THW members are exceptions, by damaging the creeps constantly.

If you are speaking to me - I don't hate it as I already said, I just find it borring -.- I was hitting them with auto-attack too btw. Cuz it is gayness just to steal kills and not to help them

It has such big impact on when you do certain things, Is it time to push right now? Is it time to gank? Is it time to kill roshan? Etc. And all of these different decisions have major impact on the game depending on when and how they are done.

Also, dota is a game that shines within competetive play, just as tf2. Normal casual players are mostly just playing random games, and that is far from as interesting as real cw/games.

Just making thing in different way doesn't make game really different. And dota is a casual game. Easy to learn and easy to play.
Sorry for one more oftopic but if you want every game to be different play rogue-likes.



P.S.:
@Vunjo:
btw, i find ur aos in rotkr more interesting then dota.

 

[Hemske]

Oh god. Well, I am out of this. This is pointless.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

Discusions about opinions are always pointless.

 

[Adiktuz]

Defense of the Ancients will always equate to the map unless someone makes another thing called Defense of the Ancients...

As far as I'm aware, there is no community named DotA or Defense of the Ancients, meaning DotA as a community is nonexistent... Unless you create a community named DotA, you cannot equate DotA to a community...

When I played with supporter heroes, the ones kicking ass in Dota and Sotis were always the one with lots of HP and Agility, and tanks. In Dota intelligence hero at late game was weak and the moment to kill many was early but late game - all Str Agi heroes became tanks, one would have to waste all their ultis on a single tank hero lol.

-->There are some int heroes which actually have good abilities until end game... and there are also int heroes which are better off made into battle types if the game will stretch for a long time... and anyway, that is their main role, to support...

the long living Holy Trinity of games... Tank, DPS, support... XD...

anyway, int heroes can still be killers if you think about your build correctly... as the saying goes, the best offense is the best defense... XD... there are two ways to go, build up your hero to his best potential (the general type of build), or build your hero to be the best defender against the enemy (the situational type of build)...

Discusions about opinions are always pointless.
-->So true... because they are just opinions... XD... no one will ever be right or wrong...

 

[Vunjo]

These statements are saying different things. If you don't suck at dota, then you would know that auto-attacking creeps is one of the worst thing to do in order to ruin your lane.



It has such big impact on when you do certain things, Is it time to push right now? Is it time to gank? Is it time to kill roshan? Etc. And all of these different decisions have major impact on the game depending on when and how they are done.

Also, dota is a game that shines within competetive play, just as tf2. Normal casual players are mostly just playing random games, and that is far from as interesting as real cw/games.

Wow what a pro! So you are not helping your team's creeps at all! Interesting! DotA is officially an Arena map for you.
I don't want to be offensive as allways, but that's an epic fail of view to a game. It's AoS, not arena, kill mobs, or play another game.
Define ruining your lane? So destroying towers while creeps are tanking is bad? So much of the argument...

When I was reffering to the tactics, I thought of heavy maths equations, not some "I feel like we can go Rosh now, wanna do it guys?". Judging by the timing, and macro, melee maps are much more harder, and require greater amount of skill. Win a match against a Korean then you can argue with the statement.

EDIT: @Adiktuz
Indeed, I cannot equate it that way, but let's then look back to the logic, more specific, point of this thread. Other than some bad things, which could be lag cause, terrain, object editor, anything that is made in map, there is no really reason to hate a map, don't you agree?
I mean, we can hate either authors, or people. You can't blame a file/document. =)

I have to say that I agree on the roles part (most of it), but some Intelligence heroes are based on dealing damage, while even some tanks can do a better job in it.

 

[Adiktuz]

Who said that its harder to make strategy in DotA than in melee eh?

Win a match against a Korean then you can argue with the statement.
->Win against a korean in any e-sports/e-game and you're definitely a pro