Where are we heading

[hawk_767]

This is a more serious topic people so please

TRY TO BE MATURE.

I'm asking a serious question so don't come in here making up stupid stories. It would go in the Tower but I'm not a member so here it is.
The world is in a very bad way as of now. War, famine, and economic downfall is happening all around. I'd like to hear where you all think the world is heading. What do you think the world will be like in a few years. How much will have changed, maybe another world war. Just would like to hear your opinions.

BTW here's the song that gave me the idea for this song.

 

[Kimbo]

Go back to the medieval times, im sure its alot better.

 

[hawk_767]

Well don't know about better but much much simpler.

 

[Kimbo]

It was sarcasm.

It was alot worse compared to todays standards.
Humanity is now just a giant cupcake oozing corruption that will eventually destroy itself (the cupcake), instead of a ravaged bear fed kids.

 

[hawk_767]

you and your damn cupcakes. anyways depends really on your stance and how you believe. I mean I think it would actually be easier living back in midevil days since there's less to deal with. Yes there's war and probably corrupt goverment type officials but the world was much simpler.

Anyways back to the original question. I guess I should answer it.

First where I'd like to see the world.

I'd love the world to be through with all the wars and shit going on now adays. I'd love for the famine and economic crises to be over and for people to be living happy lives but of course that's a complete fairy tale.

I see the world being in the same shit it is now but worse later on. Economies may jump back up but the war will never stop because of religion and differences in ways of life. Like in the song, "I think the war is burning to the ground." That's a perfect description of whats going on right now.

 

[NinjasDontFight]

Well here's a opinion for the long term...
America falls into a great collapse. We started losing everything about when the Internet Boom started. So go complain to the government, see what response you will get. "Republicans fault!" "Lets go green!" "Save the poor babies!" "Blame the companies!" "I didn't do it! *points fingers* He did IT!"


Here's another opinion...
Whats wrong with war, famine, and corruption. You don't get change or new advancements. Forgot the minor details of suffering, but for long-term changes. War is the greatest thing that can happen to any country. I would consider our selves in a peace time, America is such a powerhouse that it has kept the world stable. This is a a rare time in history when such stability has been established. Back then nations would of uprised and fallen over a short period of time (10-50 years). Perhaps a size equal or greater than the U.S. or Russia.

 

[Hakeem]

The world is in a very bad way as of now.

When you look at specific parts and ignore the whole.

War

The majority of the world has nothing to do with war.

famine

Not for most people.

economic downfall

Agalmics FTW. Seriously, it a random value.

What do you think the world will be like in a few years.

More pessimists. Nothing major.

I think it would actually be easier living back in midevil days since there's less to deal with. Yes there's war and probably corrupt goverment type officials but the world was much simpler.

And there was a lot more work to do. Depends on what you mean by "easier".

I'd love the world to be through with all the wars and shit going on now adays. I'd love for the famine and economic crises to be over and for people to be living happy lives but of course that's a complete fairy tale.

Agalmic Anarchy.

Economies may jump back up but the war will never stop because of religion and differences in ways of life.

Do not perceive otherwise, war is about money and/or power. It is an aspect of leadership.

Whats wrong with war, famine, and corruption.

They kill people.

War is the greatest thing that can happen to any country.

No, becoming an agalmic anarchy is.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

History lession: My grammar teacher once said that in the medieval times, we had a certain number of people, about 250 million or something. Yes, over the whole planet.

Economical and Star Trek opinion: I say we must stop with the money system and do everything for free.

Catholic opinion: Dear god, I say we must wear condoms, too many people on the earth!

Athiest opinion: Dear science, I say we must just do something.

Anyone know what Deathclock says about the Earth?

 

[Japut3h]

Here's another opinion...
Whats wrong with war, famine, and corruption. You don't get change or new advancements. Forgot the minor details of suffering, but for long-term changes.

War is either an act of violence caused by one's selfish needs, or an act of violence as a response to violence. So, without violence, there wouldn't be war, and nothing good ever comes out of violence. there are no "advancements" or positive long-term changes caused by war. Civilizations advance through work and research, not through impaling the civilians of an another nation on stakes.

War is the greatest thing that can happen to any country.

Right. I'm pretty sure that Hiroshima and Nagasaki would be totally bummed out if millions of their citizens didn't get to die particularly horrible deaths.

America is such a powerhouse that it has kept the world stable.

So you're saying we'd all kill each other if it wasn't for the firm and just arm of America to "keep the world stable"?

 

[redmarine]

The planet is overpopulated so I would suggest that the world would limit the child rate to 2 kids per family till the population has halted. Once it begins to fall to perhaps 5 billion we should consider uniting the entire world and make more efficient farming, power etc. all across the earth. Free meal anyone?

If only...

 

[Kwah]

Quite frankly, the world is fine.

 

[bounty hunter2]

Quite frankly, the world is fine.

I don't think that it is.

As Hakeem said, most of the world isn't involved in the wars. But I think that something major will happen soon. I don't think that it will be a war, a crisis or anything like that. I like to think that in ten, maybe fifteen years a disaster will strike us. Nature strikes back and takes from us what we took from it.

But I don't bother with it actualy. Yes the world is a screwed and a shitty place, but the humans got used living in it. So live and don't bother.

Edit: We are heading for disaster. Don't bother with it.

 

[Devine]

Once i'm dictator over the world, I'll hold the population down, I'd modernise every country in the world, starting of in Afrika and South America, Prepare for some alien attacks, hunt down G.W.B, for he has DESTROYED our world. Bush, I hate you, I hate you so much, there are no words to describe how much I hate you and one day me and the world will make you pay for the things you did.
The world is falling appart as it is now. We can hope Obama will be fair (and not be killed) but he'll probably fall for the corrupt and easy life. So my Conclusion is: Vote for Ruben, a.k. Devine. Or else, I'll just concure the world.

 

[Elenai]

For goodness sakes, Anarchy will never work!

SHOESTRINGS! And more shoestrings, and shoestrings to make shoestrings, and then you have the fact that a world without laws is a world without limits, and a world where the most awful things you can do to humanity will be done with impunity.

Roving barbarians will raid your little mini-farms, steal everything you own, and rape your toddlers, simply because there are no laws saying they can't. The rest of you will be taken as slaves! Society will collapse, and there will be no turning back unless history repeats itself and bands together underneath a leviathan government.

Mankind cannot function without limits, society cannot thrive without limits, civilization cannot exist without laws to govern it, and most of all, civilization cannot advance without some form of monetary guideline.

Mankind's future is a grim one full of cycles.

If this current trend continues unchecked, the Western World will collapse and fall, their economic might crumbled and their civilization bankrupt and left in a backward state of being.

The fall of the NATO Empire will lead to a second dark age worse than what occurred at the fall of Rome.

The economy and the market is like a weedy vine, it has wrapped itself around every nation.

When the vine dies, what ever it has held up will collapse into dust, and the markets of every major financial institute will turn to dust with it.

Money will be worthless, goods will reach inflated prices at sky high levels, retailers will seek fight this trend, and in an effort to bring in customers they will send their prices plummeting to the ground, and the market will break itself under it's own confusion.

Stagflation of prices, and the loss of wages will lead to a destruction of the consumer market, and with that, funds will evaporate like rain in the desert.

People will have a choice, buy a loaf of bread with their worthless money, or pay their governmental taxes...people will not starve their children.

Governmental funds will also evaporate, and thus all that the government provides for will die of money thirst.

Military might will crumble, as nations can no longer afford to maintain their armed forces, revolutions will enflame in the middle of even the most developed nations. Food riots, looting, pillaging, the rich will be the first to find themselves under the hammer of the people.

The Earth will become as one massive Bolshevik revolution, and anarchy will ensue. Mankind will attempt to fix it's position with time, but not until years of unstable war, violence, and lawlessness prevail.

The Market's will collapse, and with them the Governments of many nations will fall, boarders will blur, the territories of nations will change, and the people will turn to mob rule. Civilization will come to a screeching halt, and everyone will be in a state of poverty unseen since the Depression. Those with commodities like Oil, Food, Medicine and etc, will be the kings of this world.

Those who cannot obtain these resources will die, and disease will spread like wild fire upon a land of paper. Children and the Elderly will fall first, and only the strongest of humans will survive long enough to fight over what ever meager stores remain un-fortified and unguarded.

The world will be one of war, famine, pestilence, and death by greed. And mankind will commit acts of treacherous debauchery, that mankind never even dreamed where possible in this state of total lawlessness.

There is infact so much that could and will happen should the Western market fully collapse that inorder for me to list them all I would have to make a spreadsheet.

I may make one soon, but for now this is but a preface of the doom to come.

However, eventually things will stabilize, and the cycle of history will continue.

When the market fails we will most likely revert to a form of Feudalism, and the cycle of history will take its course, as the people rise up and take democracy and capitalism into their hands once more to thrive for a time in a new era.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Elenai, if awful acts can be committed, awful acts can be committed in retaliation. People will realise that fact sooner or later, and assuming society makes it through that transition then everything else will fall into place. Your problems are with the transition into anarchy, whereas Hakeem is defending the state of a prolonged anarchy. kthx?

War is the best thing that can happen for a country, but not for its people. Winning a war leads to death, arrogance, self-importance, and discrimination.

 

[Hakeem]

The planet is overpopulated

No, it most certainly is not. And we haven't even moved into the water yet!

The funny thing about carrying capacity, is that the carrying capacity is maintained.

For goodness sakes

Whoa, slow down there. Keep it to the MT thread. I just advertise agalmic anarchy to ensure I have opponents.

SHOESTRINGS!

But I will stress, anarchy does not abolish money. That is agalmics.

 

[TheDivineBoss]

Congratulations people, I got some awesome news.

They just announced a new Fallout game coming.

Fallout 4: Real Life!

 

[Elenai]

@Teh_Ephy

All government is a sustained version of it's beginning. Anarchy will always remain lawless, and self-serving, and human nature is what makes it so.

Once the transition is over, you will still have to deal with barbarians, and a sky rocketing crime rate. Unchecked Anarchy will lead to "eye for an eye justice" without any limit, eventually humanity will blind itself.

I do not trust mankind to forgo their selfishness for many eons. Of which if they do, it will probably take but a mere bit of chaos (like a revolution) to reintroduce these tenancies.

The weak will be left bare in this system, and the strong will force their will upon the land, warlord politics is the government of Anarchy. (History has shown this)

As for retaliation, the weak cannot defend itself against the strong, unless the weak themselves are strong (which defeats the purpose of being weak). Especially in an un-united, merciless, self-serving, lawless society.

That is how Feudalism was born. The weak requested protection from the strong, after being tired of living in an anarchic system, and in return for their services would feed their liege lords. Eventually, the system was abused (as all forms of government become, until a revival of the people takes over, and the cycle continues)

Even when the transition is finished, and the dust settles, you are left with ruins, and an unstable workforce of "half trained, half interested, expertless" peasants. Society will take ages to rebuild, and any efforts to rebuild anything will first be "maintaining your own piece of property" of which will require constant maintenance, due to the various predators circling above these tiny little shares of land.

 

[Mufanza]

It's all going to end...
...In 16th november of 2012
NO WAI!!!11!1!1!!1

 

[Devine]

It's all going to end...
...In 16th november of 2012
NO WAI!!!11!1!1!!1

Since the world is in crisis etc ... I'm actually starting to believe that D:

 

[Teh_Ephy]

Anarchy isn't some random rabble of peasants, there is just no structured government. Also, you can take this however you want, I am of the firm opinion that people with physical disabilities tend to learn faster and be more tolerable of others because they need to to continue to survive.

 

[mato2]

I believe we're going to the moon ----> mars
Very soon, 'cause we are basically wearing out this planet, destroying it, and it will probably stay like that until we simply cannot live here anymore, the oxygen in the air could probably be diminished to the point where air is no longer breathable, drinking water could disappear, global warming is also an issue, but then again, someone might think of a brilliant way to filter/air water, and destroy the green house gasses, though i find that highly unlikely, if it comes to a 3rd world war, it will be nuclear, which means a nuclear fallout/winter will happen, and the world will crumble apart, a nuclear war would probably also tear holes in the Ozone.

Then again if all life is exterminated via nuclear war, nature might just reset the clock, the world might fix itself, i know this probably sounds stupid to most of you, if you think about it, you might find it plausible, the meteor that destroyed dinosaurs, i guess the ash clouds it lifted and the effects they caused ould be similar to a nuclear winter.

If any life was to survive the radiation, and I've read about cockroaches it is said that they an do that, I've also read about some organism that can survive absolute zero, i think that evolution will take it's course and just reset the clock, new organisms will evolve from those that survived, and maybe the world will be ruled by god damn Cockroach-men, no one can really say where the world will go, simply because we don't know enough about the past.

My two cents.

 

[TheBlooddancer]

If the world were to end at a special date, it would be the 13.17.1337. Which will never occour.

Besides that, where i live, the world is just fine. Just stop using dangerous things, and such, then we will all be fine.
The largest thing that happens here is people burning our flags, which i, atleast, don't give a damn in.

 

[Kwah]

Well, I don't know about you guys, but I'm going to heaven.

(Kidding).

Anyway, quality of life is still going up not down. Maybe not in the past couple years compared to the last decade, but it's still close.

 

[Hoernchen]

If we want this world to go anywhere, we got to improve humanity itself.
People have to better themselves, and other people have to help them do so.

But a list of things we should really do:
-Make the US sign the Tokyo pact. They are killing us slowly those bastards.
-Wait for the USA to be destroyed as #1 world power either by a war or economical catastrophe.
-Abolish religion
-Improve school systems across the world
-Introduce a 1-2 child policy world wide
-Introduce a communism-like distribution of wealth, just not as extreme and one that actually works
-Globally disarm any kind of real weapons (except basic protection like police)
-Create a governing force that actually forces countries to obey rules, not like America now just violates all human rights and rules agreed upon by the UN.
-Actually enforce human rights everywhere
-Forbid any kind of law/act that contradicts human rights, like the Patriot Act.
-Abolish reality tv and similar
-Make people start reading again
-Fight patriotism/nationalism in all of its forms

 

[InfiniteSeven]

Hoernchen, I disagree with several aspects of what you say.

-Make the US sign the Tokyo pact. They are killing us slowly those bastards.

I agree with this, but I wanted to say its the Kyoto protocol I think you're talking about.

-Wait for the USA to be destroyed as #1 world power either by a war or economical catastrophe.

There's no need for the USA to be destroyed, especially through any catastrophes or war, which would really be contradictary to your point of improving humanity.

-Abolish religion

Religion should not be abolished. It's something for people to believe in, a glimmer of hope for many and a life for some. It has the potential to bring people together, though I am well aware some people take their beliefs too far at times.

-Improve school systems across the world

No arguments here.

-Introduce a 1-2 child policy world wide

I fail to see the point of this... The world isn't overpopulated. Have you seen Australia (Currently I live there)?

-Introduce a communism-like distribution of wealth, just not as extreme and one that actually works

Whilst Communism seems to be a great option in theory, it certainly is far from truth. An economy based on individual choice can infact, allow for social as well as technological advances as a result of such things as entrepreneurship and trial & error, where as a central planning economy does not allow for such a thing, and would eventually lead to stagnation. The fall of the Soviet Union proved that Communism doesn't work very well.

-Globally disarm any kind of real weapons (except basic protection like police)

Although I'm not fully sure of my stance on this, I believe that any disarmament is rather futile. With, or without weapons it will not always help produce peace. Violence does not result just because one has weapons, but often ones actions and ideologies.

-Create a governing force that actually forces countries to obey rules, not like America now just violates all human rights and rules agreed upon by the UN.

Agreed here.

-Actually enforce human rights everywhere

Agreed here as well.

-Forbid any kind of law/act that contradicts human rights, like the Patriot Act.

I mostly agree.

-Abolish reality tv and similar

I fail to see the point of such an act.

-Make people start reading again

Contradiction here, you're oppressing people against their right to not read.

-Fight patriotism/nationalism in all of its forms

This is a point in which I disagree whole-heartedly.

Firstly, fighting Nationalism is rather contradictary of yourself. For humanity to improve, must we oppress the people's beliefs?

Secondly, oppressing the patriotic spirits of people to crush Nationalism is, again, contradictary of yourself as you want to enforce human rights, yet you want to oppress their ideologies.

Thirdly, Nationalism is a form of respect to one's own country. Fighting it would mean we should start hating our own countries, our own heritage, our own culture and worst of all, our own fellow people.

 

[Hoernchen]

America is at the moment a nation with standing armies, like Rome back in the good ol' days. If anyone forgot what Rome did, well they wanted world dominance and attacked countries simply to sustain their military nation. America could literally destroy famine across the globe if they spent half as much on it as they did on wars.

Nearly all philosophists and thinkers of the past century have agreed that religion is the wall that stops humanity from progress. I won't explain much more here, I just recommend that you read Nietzsche.

While no weapons does not equal no death, I do have a point. After WW1 Germany was allowed a max of 100,000 soldiers. Hitler raised that bar to literally 1,000,000.
Had the rest of the world stepped in and kicked him in the balls when he stepped over 100k, WW2 most likely wouldn't have happened.

Reality TV and similar things are dumbing down society. Surveys across America have shown that Americans are buttfuckdumb when it comes to anything that isn't on TV. Some could not recognize people like Washington, Jesus and George Bush or Bin Laden, but had no problems identifying 'popular' TV characters. TV shows like "Im a star, get me out of here" contribute to downfall of human intelligence.

By saying make people start reading again, I do not mean force them. I mean encourage it more, promote good books and don't promote stuff like "Reading is for fags". I found it said when I asked my English teacher why all the books we did in school sucked balls, and he actually said to my face, that the books are supposed to suck according to the board of education. Do I have to wonder why people won't read, when they are forced to read books that suck?

Did you ever notice the similarities between the words nationalism and nazi? Yea? Cause they are actually linked together. Nazi means Nationalsocialist. If people aren't busy starting a war over religion or racism, they love to start one over patriotism.
Uncle Sam wants you! Your motherland needs you! Our country blah blah blah. The end message is that using this call to Patriotism you eventually have to kill someone who doesn't think your country is as awesome.

Furthermore, the idiocracy of Patriotism. "I am proud to be a ...", what are you proud of? That you happened to have been born in a certain country? That is like going to a starving kid and telling him "I am proud to be born into a rich family".
One cannot take pride in something that one has not achieved or done himself. If you founded the country, then go ahead be proud. But thing is, most people aren't founding fathers, and still take pride in being citizen of a country as if they had to wrestle a lion to become one.
Again, most thinkers and philosophists of this century agree that patriotism is idiotic.

Here is a couple of the greatest people of the past centuries who think that religion and patriotism are bad:

Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
-Thomas Jefferson

This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it"
-John Adams

Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
-Thomas Jefferson

Lighthouses are more useful than churches.
-Benjamin Franklin

Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

Religious suffering is at one and the same time the expression of real suffering and a protest against real suffering. Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people.

The abolition of religion as the illusory happiness of the people is the demand for their real happiness. To call on them to give up their illusions about their condition is to call on them to give up a condition that requires illusions. The criticism of religion is therefore in embryo the criticism of that vale of tears of which religion is the halo.
-Karl Marx

In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Every miserable fool who has nothing at all of which he can be proud, adopts, as a last resource, pride in the nation to which he belongs; he is ready and glad to defend all its faults and follies tooth and nail, thus reimbursing himself for his own inferiority.
–Arthur Schopenhauer

These only happen to be some of the greatest thinkers of the past centuries, but I am sure they could all be wrong...what a funny coincidence that all great thinkers are atheists and non-patriots....

 

[Nudl9]

We'r heading towards 2012! Apocolypse!

I guess there will come a desease which kills 1/3 of the globes population or something.
Something will eventually come...

 

[InfiniteSeven]

People can be proud of their country if they wish - they are part of the country, the are the ones that drive the very country. They do not have to be the founders of nations just to take pride in a country that the help to keep alive, in one small way or another.

Patriotism is often an invisible feature of any country and it helps drive the nations. It helps promote social and humanitarian needs of a nation, by allowing its citizens to improve the country itself by working hard.

And to point something else about patriotism, it is affiliated strongly with freedom. When people attempt to oppress other nations - this is where the extremes of nationalism are truly seen. They fight to preserve their rights and freedom.

Hostility is also a driving factor for people's nationalism - now this is something from experience from me (I'm a Japanese and I live in Australia and its not always easy, especially since last year).

As for the United States, it does not need to be destroyed but it should step up as a global power and instead of causing wars it should help stop wars, enforce the rule of the United Nations.

 

[Elenai]

Thankfully with Bush gone we won't be the world's "bad cop" anymore.

(I hope)

 

[Teh_Ephy]

With the exception of communicating with my parents, I would definitely rather err through action than through inaction, which is what the US Army is for. The current US Republican party would have kicked Hitler in the balls before 100K.

I believe that before the actual war, the Nazi party was one of the best things to happen to Germany. A communism-like distribution of distribution of wealth that works? That's dangerously close to socialism.

Also, any sort of pride, patriotism, ethnic, etc. is divisive. It only needs to be gotten rid of if it is divisive in a bad way. About that Schopenhauer quote, also: if you have nothing you can have pride in your country is not the same as having pride in your country means you have nothing.

 

[Hakeem]

Nearly all philosophists and thinkers of the past century have agreed that religion is the wall that stops humanity from progress.

Now, stop right there, because you have just made yourself a blind follower. "Oh hey, that guys seems smart, I think I'll take everything he says as true."
Second, your ears must be good, because that's how our posts are getting to you. It can't be through your eyes, because you've got to be blind to not see progress.

I won't explain much more here, I just recommend that you read Nietzsche.

I recommend you read the Qur'an. Because everything you've said bad about religion has not applied to the Qur'an. Honestly, in my eyes, it makes you look like a complete idiot. Don't talk about something that you know nothing about.

Did you ever notice the similarities between the words nationalism and nazi? Yea? Cause they are actually linked together. Nazi means Nationalsocialist.

Hitler, like yourself, was a eugenicist. Will you instantly drop your ideas of restricting out population growth, or must I show you just why eugenics is beyond retarded?

If people aren't busy starting a war

Then you are not a leader. Leaders are the sole reason for war. Nothing else. You can't even start a war without a leader.

These only happen to be some of the greatest thinkers of the past centuries, but I am sure they could all be wrong...what a funny coincidence that all great thinkers are atheists and non-patriots....

What makes them great thinkers? You'll find your logic circular. Merely by belief in God you would discount a great thinker.

You know what makes a great thinker? Someone who actually thinks for them self.

Which you are not, as seen by your reliance on famous people to think for you. Fame != wisdom.

Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man.
-Thomas Jefferson

Christianity may be a big religion, but it itself is not the entirety of religion. You'll note that this quote conveniently does not say anything about any other religions, such as Islam.

This would be the best of all possible worlds if there were no religion in it
-John Adams

What an idiot. Do you know how many people would not be able to get through the day without religion? Just because there are people who can get through the day without religion does not mean everyone can.

Lighthouses are more useful than churches.
-Benjamin Franklin

A church is a Christian thing, which, again, and again, since you think Christianity is representative of all religion, is not representative of all religion. Also, a church is a human construct.

Religion is the masterpiece of the art of animal training, for it trains people as to how they shall think.
-Arthur Schopenhauer

That was not an attack on religion. That was an argument to put religion into schools. Training people how to think is something you find trouble with in the current education system.

[Did you even understand that quote?]
-Karl Marx

What? The guy who can't even think of a way to make a working government? Sure, he thought a lot, but he sucked at it.

In Christianity neither morality nor religion come into contact with reality at any point.
-Friedrich Nietzsche

Argument against Christianity. Christianity itself is not equivalent to all of religion.

---

And if that wasn't enough, what you have provided is a set of unexplained assertions. In other words, they hold no value.


You do realize you have been brainwashed into thinking religion is this bad don't you?

 

[Hoernchen]

I do hope Obama changes the US from the world's most hated nation to just a nation.

Patriotism, religion and nationalism are the fuel of every conflict.
Furthermore patriotism is really "nothing to be proud of". I fail to see why you should be proud unless you are president, founder, etc of that country.
If everyone is patriotic, then everyone thinks their nation is the best, which in turn makes them think that the other guy who also thinks his nation is the best is a jackass, cause he doesn't think your nation is best.
Patriotism also leads to nationalism, which in turn leads to stuff like Nationalsocialism (Nazi short).

The US is too powerful, militarily speaking, they need to be disarmed.
US Spendings on military per year:
US$651.2 billion (is higher, this is the official sum)

 

[Hoernchen]

Hakeem, you are the typical fundamentalist blind brain fucked religious guys.
You agree with everything against Christianity, but when it comes to your religion, which is NO better, you get all defensive and lie that it is completely difference.

As I remember, Muhammad didn't preach his gospel by being friendly, but by conquest of the entire arab world, with blood, not love.
But of course, it easy to look across all that when it comes to your own religion.

You do realize you have been brainwashed into thinking religion is this bad don't you?

By who? When I was small I was told God existed, I later figured out for myself that you would have to be a huge moron to actually believe that, at the age of about 10.
How can someone be brainwashed into atheism? Do you even know what it means? Atheism means lack of religion/god.

Hakeem, you get ALL your ideas from one book, the Qu'ran, which is neither a trustworthy, moral, very new source of wisdom. If you had never met a muslim in your life, to adopt their faith, you would never have adopted Islam, but I on the other hand do not need anyone to adopt atheism, because it is a natural thing.

Hitler by the way was a Christian and his plans were backed up by the Vatican, furthermore he said once that he dreams of a world where all atheists are dead/converted.

It does strike me that the amount of smart people who are atheist is equal to the amount of religious redneck dumbasses.

Btw, you mixed Marx up with Stalin. Marx was a writer, not a politician. Not that you would read a book of such an intellectual level.

 

[InfiniteSeven]

Hoernchen, try not to double post.

And regarding what you say about the amount of intelligent atheists is equal to the amount of religious redneck dumbasses, even if all atheists are intelligent (Which is untrue) that would mean only a minority of religious people would be redneck dumbasses, which means the larger majority of religous people are infact, smart as well.

One man's (in this case, Adolf Hitler) actions does not represent the majority of all religious people.

Hakeem's arguments and ideas aren't just based on the Qur'an - I don't believe the Qur'an mentioned eugenics, or thinking for yourself over letting others think for yourself. It seems to me, that arguments that were presented were based more on logic and common sense - and people who use both are more than intellectual enough to read a book made by a person who invented a flawed political ideology that caused a terrible time of fear and war for 45 years.

And when Hakeem says you've been brainwashed, I believe what was ment was that your opinion has been influenced too much by what a select group of philosophers and thinkers had said.

Furthermore, why should one be proud of their country if they did not found or rule the nation? Because without the people, without their work, then what kind of nation would it be? It wouldn't even be a nation. A nation cannot run with just one man, or a small group that made the nation. A nation needs to have people who would be glad to work hard in their nation, not just a single man. The large majority of people contributed to their nation, often in a small way.

Also learn that one may be proud of their own nation without thinking its the best. Do you need to believe something is good and the best at the same time? Of course not. There's multiple of ways to rate the nation, not just thinking its the best or not. And one does not need to believe that their own country is better than another country.

Also I must say that you are the one who is becoming defensive, resulting to insults against people, which I wish you wouldn't do, so it doesn't result with flaming. Let us keep this argument intellectual and not with an aggressive style.

 

[Hakeem]

Hakeem, you are the typical fundamentalist blind brain fucked religious guys.

You're a typical extremist atheist. Did you ever think it is extreme ideas against something that causes problems?

Suppose you get religion abolished, and the problems you thought religion is causing are still present? You were so sure it was religion... What could it be? WHERE DID YOU GO WRONG?! YOU WERE SURE!!! *presses the self destruct button in rage*

You agree with everything against Christianity

I did not. You merely perceived it as such since I oppose you, and you oppose Christianity. I'm not going to fight for Christianity because I don't know enough about it to debate about it. I know Islam, and by that I know that you know nothing about Islam, and hence do not know everything about religion.

your religion, which is NO better

You have not read the Qur'an. True of false?

As I remember, Muhammad didn't preach his gospel by being friendly, but by conquest of the entire arab world, with blood, not love.

That only strengths how amazing the Qur'an is, if it were true. It is not. I know, not because I have studied, but because I am immortal and was actually there to witness it. What ever you're reading, is a lie invented somewhere in that past fifteen hundred years. I can understand how you may not be able to separate truth from fiction.

How can someone be brainwashed into atheism? Do you even know what it means? Atheism means lack of religion/god.

I know what it means. It means you think you are logical, when you actually have no idea better than any of the rest of us. You think religion and religious people are the only ones trying to brainwash anyone? Tell me, what did your teacher say about the quality of your school books? If you think you are impervious to being manipulated, you are the easiest person to manipulate.

Easier still is manipulating the curious person such as yourself.

Hakeem, you get ALL your ideas from one book, the Qu'ran

I have told you nothing of my ideas. I've told you how your ideas are completely untrue. Aside from that, I trust science with my life.

If you had never met a muslim in your life, to adopt their faith, you would never have adopted Islam

All I did was read a book to become Muslim. It was a great book. A perfect book. Have you read it?

I on the other hand do not need anyone to adopt atheism, because it is a natural thing.

You met a Christian and you believed in God. You are an atheist after the fact. You know what's natural? Not knowing anything.

When you form an opinion one way or the other, you can not claim to be neutral.

Hitler by the way was a Christian

No, he was a politician. He would say and do anything to gain or keep power. His word cannot be trusted as accurate about himself. That there is even a debate about it shows that he had no religion, and I can pull up some quotes that make it seem very logical that he was anti-religion, like yourself. You also missed the part about eugenics. Do you stand by your logic that humans should be limited in the number of children they have?

Btw, you mixed Marx up with Stalin. Marx was a writer, not a politician. Not that you would read a book of such an intellectual level.

Your words call him a thinker. My words indicate he sucked at it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Marx#Political_economy

when Hakeem says you've been brainwashed, I believe what was ment was that your opinion has been influenced too much by what a select group of philosophers and thinkers had said.

Partially that. There are people as anti-religious as he is that put material out there, that nothing short of brainwashes you into a point of view you would otherwise not have.

 

[Hoernchen]

I know nothing of the Qu'ran? 10 seconds on google, and bam I do. And what do you know, you search for violence in it, and you find it. Wouldn't have seen that coming.

Cruelty in the Quran

I know nothing about it, but yet I was right when I simply guessed that it will probably have stuff like promoting wars, violence and of course killing of non-believers in it. What a coincidence.

Btw: I am not curious, I accept that no one will ever know the answers to the big questions, and I simply admit it, and don't try to make them up.

 

[Hakeem]

Wow. xD

That's hilarious. If you think those are commands to humans, you are embarrassingly mistaken.

You see, each and every one of those quotes is something that Allah will do, which he has full rights to do, seeing as he created you in the first place.

These are not, and I repeat, not, actions to be taken by men. Any interpretation of them as such is completely and utterly idiotic, at best.


I do not pretend the answers can never be known. Imagine how far science would get if nobody thought they could know the answer.

 

[InfiniteSeven]

10 Seconds on Google with the Qur'an got me no results like that. And you know what, you'd need more than a couple of quotes to say it promotes violence.

And a common word that was mixed with Qur'an was "Holy". Sounds mostly religious rather than violent. I doubt its a book commanding violence (I haven't read it myself, though my father has one) to be brought upon man.

Stop trying to act as if something that's only your opinion is the only thing right.

 

[LordDz]

I have a very wierd theory:

What would happen if we removed country names, replaced them by something else.. Xhula?

and then we make people of all cultures live in each place, so not only black people live in X or white in E. Could it work?
What I'm trying to archive is to remove the ''those others are dumb'' but instead have ''this is all our country! .. So we don't have anything to go to war against''.

Would it work?

 

[Nudl9]

This thread contains many fail posts where the person states that they know what they are talking about.

As an example...

You can't even start a war without a leader.

Wars can start without leaders, but the wars promote leaders out.

Patriotism, religion and nationalism are the fuel of every conflict.

Be more carefull with what you write...

 

[Hoernchen]

"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)

Command!

"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)

Command!

"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)

Command!

"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)

Command!

"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)

Command!

For such a holy book, it sure does love war. And unless God is talking to himself in these examples, he probably does mean that these are actions to be taken by men.

Be more carefull with what you write...

Yea, sry, I should have written most, there is always exceptions in most things.

 

[VeljkoM]

I have a very wierd theory:

What would happen if we removed country names, replaced them by something else.. Xhula?

and then we make people of all cultures live in each place, so not only black people live in X or white in E. Could it work?
What I'm trying to archive is to remove the ''those others are dumb'' but instead have ''this is all our country! .. So we don't have anything to go to war against''.

Would it work?

Hardly.Idea is good but some people just don't like each other.It was done with Yugoslavia.Now look at us!6 countries and we stated with 3.
To explain first 3 countries were Serbia, Croatia and Slovenia.Now we have also Montenegro, Bosnia and Herzegovina ,Macedonia.And we are still being split apart.

 

[Callahan]

I have a very wierd theory:

What would happen if we removed country names, replaced them by something else.. Xhula?

and then we make people of all cultures live in each place, so not only black people live in X or white in E. Could it work?
What I'm trying to archive is to remove the ''those others are dumb'' but instead have ''this is all our country! .. So we don't have anything to go to war against''.

Would it work?

No It doesn't work.

You see when a Yankee meet a Texan in Texas or NY they'll argue about their cultural difference.But if those 2 people meet in a foreign country like Russia they'll befriend like 'Oh hai I'm american too'.
So the only way the whole world will feel united is that we're confronted to Alien being from another planet.

And cultural diversity is not a bad thing.Hailing all country to one banner is called imperialism there will be no more war but civil war wich is still war.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

II know nothing about it, but yet I was right when I simply guessed that it will probably have stuff like promoting wars, violence and of course killing of non-believers in it. What a coincidence.

lol fag
You just admitted to arguing based on assumptions, not generalities or facts.

 

[Elenai]

My little dramatic rant

Hoernchen, I have had enough..

You speak of Christianity with disdain, and yet you know nothing about God or the sacrifice of Christ on the cross, you are ignorant, and utterly intolerant, it is such beings as yourself that Christ died for, and yet you merrily spit on the gift.

You dare to say that it is we who create conflict...behold...You are an example of an extremist, of the highest form, a blind and illogical follower of your own atheistic faith, and YES it is a faith indeed, you have faith that God surely does not exist, faith because you have no proof, just as I have faith because I have no 'proof' of God's existence, other than my own personal experiences.

You would wipe my kind from the face of the Earth without a thought, kill us, maim us, burn us at the stake, bathe in our blood, and yet you call us the bearers of death and hate? You are a bigot, a fool, and worse, you are a hypocrite.

I am here, I am a Christian...here is the axe blade...KILL ME if you dare, and prove to the world that your brand of Atheism, is seven hundred times worse, than the violence that my faith has ever committed, or that the worst of my ancestors could have ever conceived.

I dare you, I dare you to make me a martyr! Prove to the world that you are no better, than the cruelest inquisitor to ever live, and that you are infact worse, fore even the Inquisitor was an educated individual for his time.

You are an extremist Militant Atheist...I am a tolerant, law abiding, and to be rather honest, laid back, Christian.

Who is worse? Me, who because of God does not want genocide of anyone, or you...who would not only kill me, but nearly three quarters of the world's population, because we believe in something other than your lack of it?

You are just like Stalin, you are a monster.

The point:

You're a bleeding hateful hypocrite.

 

[VeljkoM]

I can't read this anymore.How can some one blame religion for war.I think that every religion says to believers to be good.It is peoples fault that they use religion as a excuse for war like Crusades.
And religion doesn't stop human progress (well maybe catholic).And religion gives some people reason to live.
Why do you live?What awaits you after death?Nothing?

 

[Nudl9]

Elenai your being overdramatic ,if you cant handle reading just gtfo.
Hoernchen is just trying to or did prove some points, which i find rather interesting.

 

[Teh_Ephy]

You dare to say that it is we who create conflict
...
You would wipe my kind from the face of the Earth ... and yet you call us the bearers of death and hate? You are ... a hypocrite.

Is the point, and I have to agree.

 

[Shiroaisu]

I say: Prepare your selves, cause the war for DRINKABLE WATER is near.