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Where are we heading

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Level 27
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Wars can start without leaders
How?
Congratulations! :D
You are actually looking for something yourself, even if you still are not backing it up.
"Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it." (Surah 2:216)
Actual quote, when you click the link: "Warfare is ordained for you, though it is hateful unto you; but it may happen that ye hate a thing which is good for you, and it may happen that ye love a thing which is bad for you. Allah knoweth, ye know not."
First and foremost, the Qur'an is written in Arabic. We are using an English translation, and a bad one at that, so the meaning of words can be lost. Especially since a sentence of Arabic can only accurately translate into a paragraph of English. Should you require a fresh translation, I can get you one.

This is not a command, this is an ordinance. If it comes to war, we should fight. This is not a command to try to start wars.
"Slay them wherever you find them...Idolatry is worse than carnage...Fight against them until idolatry is no more and God's religion reigns supreme." (Surah 2:190-)
That site lists 2:190 as: "Fight in the way of Allah against those who fight against you, but begin not hostilities. Lo! Allah loveth not aggressors."
"Believers, take neither Jews nor Christians for your friends." (Surah 5:51)
That's not the same as saying to make them your enemies. It is probably wise advice though.
"Believers, make war on the infidels who dwell around you. Deal firmly with them." (Surah 9:121-)
Where are you getting these quotes? I'm getting them from the site you linked: "Their Lord giveth them good tidings of mercy from Him, and acceptance, and Gardens where enduring pleasure will be theirs;"
"Make war on them until idolatry shall cease and God's religion shall reign supreme." (Surah 8:36-)
I don't care where you are getting these quotes, I'm not going to reply if the numbers you give don't contain the quote you say they do. 8:36 cannot be translated or interpreted as that. If you didn't find that at 8:36, then you might as well have made it up.


That was a bust. Not only are you searching for things that seem cruel, which I do not deny may exist (note my choice of words), you aren't looking for the thing I said do not exist in the Qur'an. The Qur'an is free contradiction. It contradicts neither science nor itself.
 
Level 10
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Jun 16, 2007
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Elenai, if you are so willing to die, then why not just kill yourself?
After all, Heaven is so much better than Earth, I see no reason why you even want to be here. I won't do it for you, because I have morals, not morals like in the bible, I do not kill innocent, rape women, beat my children (if i had any), etc. The only reason a person should die is if they killed someone themselves, unjustified.

However, Religion says that not agreeing with it is reason to die. I fail to see how that is rational in any way.

Now, you claim that I (extreme atheist) would wipe your kind of the face of the earth, but yet when I give you proof of your kind doing it over and over again, you just ignore it, cause after all, that's different.

Tell me, how many atheist wars have been fought. Wars to spread atheism? Not one, since the start of religion (without religion atheism would be called normal). How many people got burned, stoned and exiled from atheists, for the crime of religion. None.
You on the other hand are like the Christian Nazi accusing the Jew that he is a monster. You do all the killing and then accuse us, the atheists, who never started a war, of your very deeds. You sir, are a hypocrite.

You are just like Hitler, you are a monster.
 
Level 24
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lol, no. Hitler scapegoated the Jews, blaming them for things that had not happened; Elenai is overreacting defensively to your own accusations by turning them against you, which you have given him the evidence to do. Seriously, just stop. The more you talk, the worse you make moderate atheists and agnostics look.
 
Level 12
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Elenai, if you are so willing to die, then why not just kill yourself?

You even seem to fail to understand what a martyr is - its not a matter of dying in anyway, not especially suicide. Though its not suprising that you wouldn't know, since you don't even know what religions are. If religion is are as you present them, then that would mean all evils and crimes are done by people who are religious, and all of the problems in the world are the results, whereas people of atheism are the ones who are innocent and have done no wrong in the world.

Your view of this world is twisted and bent. Reality has split long ago from your words, and the ideas you have presented for humanity's benefit would have ment mass genocide and bloodshed. You have no right, no justification to call what so many people believe in as the root of evil. It is because the world has people like you - who are hateful extremists, religious or not and those who cannot understand or behold anything that is beyond your own thoughts and opinion.

After all, Heaven is so much better than Earth, I see no reason why you even want to be here. I won't do it for you, because I have morals, not morals like in the bible, I do not kill innocent, rape women, beat my children (if i had any), etc. The only reason a person should die is if they killed someone themselves, unjustified.

You understand little about religions and yet you act as if an extremist such as yourself, who is calling for the fall of religion and thus the lives and hopes of many, many people, is a glorious beacon of hope for mankind. How can one, who wishes for what such a large number people in the world believe in, to be destroyed and removed for good, lead the world anywhere?

You exonerate yourself as an innocent person, and you speak of justification and moral, yet still you are not innocent. Because you have not commited acts such as rape, abuse, murder and other acts that are within the system of the man-made law, does not mean you are innocent. Infact, you are the opposite of innocent. You promote hate against religion and all religious people. You portray religious people, such as myself, as homicidal criminals who lust for nothing but violence and genocide. What do you hope for, by portraying us as such to people? Do you hope that it will spark a flame in people, so that they would be willing to commit genocide against people who uphold religion?

However, Religion says that not agreeing with it is reason to die. I fail to see how that is rational in any way.

Now, you claim that I (extreme atheist) would wipe your kind of the face of the earth, but yet when I give you proof of your kind doing it over and over again, you just ignore it, cause after all, that's different.

Rational? What you speak is not rational. You call religion evil with proof that is comparable to evidence that would make the jury in the court of law, laugh so hard that they wouldn't be able to continue with their verdict. You talk about crushing religion and those who uphold it. You suggested to a person to commit suicide. You understand nothing of even what you yourself has said.

Tell me, how many atheist wars have been fought. Wars to spread atheism? Not one, since the start of religion (without religion atheism would be called normal). How many people got burned, stoned and exiled from atheists, for the crime of religion. None.

Pathetic. Truly pathetic. Have you not even heard of the Cold War? A war of ideologies between two sides, that plagued the world with fear for almost half a century. The Communist side of the war is the one who tried to destroy religion. The War in Afghanistan by the Soviet Union, the Vietnam War, the Korean War and many other major wars in the Cold War era, are all examples of wars caused by atheists, all willing to spread atheism through communism.

What did the aftermath of the Second World War present to Stalin? Of course, a chance to spread the Soviet communism, which was effectively a way to spread atheism.

The Bolshevik Revolution in Russia, Mao Zedong's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward all spread atheism by force, as religion had opposed the political ideas of these people.

You on the other hand are like the Christian Nazi accusing the Jew that he is a monster. You do all the killing and then accuse us, the atheists, who never started a war, of your very deeds. You sir, are a hypocrite.

You are just like Hitler, you are a monster.

You again, exonerate atheists as having never caused violence, which itself is ridiculous and pathetic, and yet now you dare accuse us of being the only killers? You dare call us war-mongering fools? You dare call us hypocrites? You dare to compare us to a man who was behind millions of deaths? You dare to do all these things, without even looking at yourself? You don't even start to understand what you have said. You have no right to speak in this thread, which discusses the future of humanity, when you talk about causing some of the greatest conflict of mankind, by the eradication of religion.

It is people like you that were responsible for many of the world's horrors, people with ideas of hate, who fight against people who have something, and fight to crush their spirits. Even if it is for humanity's good in the end, which your actions would not result in, the end does not justify the means.

Give up trying to spread your ideas. It would only result in a dead world with nothing for people to believe in, nothing for people to shape their understanding of the world and certainly not a bright, peaceful world with no wars.
 
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Level 25
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Mar 31, 2004
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RELIGION IS BAD BECAUSE IT CAUSES INTERNET FLAME WARS, JEEZ

I'm locking this godawful mess of a topic

Oh, by the way, I'm agnostic. So as far as I'm concerned, both sides? You're wrong and a bunch of bloody idiots. Especially Hoernchern. Thanks for being a bigot there, buddy! Oh, by the way, those ideas you posted on page 2? How's about you get your ass off the computer and go learn how people act before suggesting stupid shit like communism, because guess what? Unless you want to turn all of humanity into lobotomised zombies, its not going to work. We have these things called "Free will" and "Ambition" which kinda run in the face of communism

Oh, by the way, who invoked Godwin's Law on this topic? Because they fail
 
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