What would it take for a war3 map maker to jump onto sc2?

[Shiroaisu]

I've been mapping for a couple of years, I stopped doing so after SC2 came out, but I created my fair share of wc3 maps. Looking at starcraft 2 right now it is really a big big shame that there aren't nearly as many people interested in custom maps/mods like they were in WC3. Why is that in your opinion?

While the starcraft 2 engine is amazing, the editor is both not very user friendly, and not very well made either, having a lot of cryptic fields and little to no documentation to show, but it is a very powerful tool. This combination means that pitfalls run rampant. If someone were to make a really comprehensive guide (or set of guides), aimed at explaining the editor in depth (and not just some sections here and there), do you guys think that would help the starcraft 2 (and maybe the war3) communities jump into mapping? The reason why I'm asking this is because I'm beginning to feel comfortable with the editor, but I see no really good resources online that teach you what it can do and how to do it well, and the few there are are spread over tenths of sites.

I was thinking of starting a series of videos really hammering down on what every little thing means in the editor, and better yet, I could have a series where I just remake warcraft 3 custom maps (with their original creators consent, of course), and go through the whole process of doing so. Do you guys think this could catch on?

Also, one important point I think is the amount of time it takes to make a SC2 map vs making a WC3 map, since it is a really significant difference, even if you do know the editor by heart, so this begs the question: would people still create maps for SC2 if they knew the editor, or is the time investment what really puts people off?

So yeah, I'm sorry if this post was a bit incoherent, but any opinions you want to share about the state of mapping/modding in SC2 and why it isn't as popular as in WC3 are very much welcome.

 

[Zwiebelchen]

What would it take for a war3 map maker to jump onto sc2?

A Blizzard that actually cares about the custom map scene instead of E-Sports.

They failed to support the community from the ground up by postponing the release of Art Tools for years and by not providing a good manual. Also, Bnet 2.0.
And now that all these things are fixed, there are just way stronger competitors in the playground like DOTA 2.
Sorry, but if I had to decide between an extremely healthy DOTA 2 community and an almost dead SC2 community, I take the former, regardless of if the SC2 editor is actually the more powerful.

Blizzard had a chance with SC2. They blew it.

The number of modders willing to sacrifice their precious freetime to provide free content is limited. Drawing modders into your game is a competition nowadays. You simply can not allow to screw your modders over on day-1 like Blizzard did.

 

[Shiroaisu]

I actually was pretty pumped for the dota 2 editor to be complete, and now that it is my fears have been pretty proven: the dota 2 engine is just not that good at doing things that don't involve heroes. The pathing for instance is not great, and the UI does not lend itself very well for something big amounts of units need to be controlled, not to mention it really limits what you can do. SC2 is an infinitely better engine (for custom games, that is), and even if I hate all the battle net bullshit I still think we can still use the engine to create and play cool things, especially since the game is free for those who just want to play custom games and not create them. Looking at it, most of the problems with battle.net in its current state would be very very mitigated by just having more people playing. Of course, some things are pretty annoying, like not being able to properly search for maps (things like searching for number of players would be great), and I always preferred having the map in my harddrive and hosting it how I see fit, oh and not to forget the no lan... but still... Don't get me wrong, the thing I want the most is that someone finally cracks the game and makes a proper third party lobby where we can play like we used to.

There are so many old WC3 maps that would work perfectly in the SC2 engine, and with the relative addition of wc3 art assets I really want to see some of those old projects revived.

So again, if someone were to actually educate people on how the editor works, do you think we would start seeing more starcraft 2 maps?

 

[Zwiebelchen]

So again, if someone were to actually educate people on how the editor works, do you think we would start seeing more starcraft 2 maps?

To be honest: no.
If you lose modders, you most likely won't get them back as then they already moved on to other platforms.

There's plenty of great SC2 mapping tutorials out there. I don't want to decourage you on your endeavours (it's actually great that you are so dedicated to it), but I don't think you can reinvent the wheel here.


So unless SC2 receives a huge popularity gain with Legacy of the Void (And I have my doubts about that) that draws thousands of new players in, there is nothing that will revive SC2's modding scene again.

Also, with Unity available to everyone for free, game modding is not as big as it was in the early 00's anyway.


I actually took a look into the DOTA 2 editor in the past and didn't like it for some of it's parts, like the flash-based UI and all the DOTA-specific API. I absolutely agree that SC2 is way more powerful than the DOTA 2 editor. But all that doesn't matter if we compare the community numbers. Players will always prefer modding what is popular.

 

[Shiroaisu]

There's plenty of great SC2 mapping tutorials out there.

Name a single place where I can learn how the editor works in its entirety. I'll be glad to be proven wrong on that point.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Apparently Blizzard was making an official user manual at some stage in the run up to Legacy of the Void according to some rumors I heard. If this is true or not we will just have to wait and see.

 

[BloodDrunk]

I am kind of interested in SC2 modding, and I want to give it a shot because yeah, I heard it's way more powerful than WE, which would allow me to do amazing things probably, if I manage to really get into learning it's language (Galaxy script or what is it?).

And yeah, videos would be very helpful, as detailed as possible.

 

[InfernalTater]

Name a single place where I can learn how the editor works in its entirety. I'll be glad to be proven wrong on that point.

That can't be said for ANY editor. You can learn a whole lot about it in one place, but not EVERYTHING.