What do you think of WoW's diplomacies?

[Shikage1111]

World of Warcraft's history is incorrect , the Undead would NEVER ally with anyone, same with Blood Elves, the Dranei are not supposed to be allied with anyone either, the alliance's diplomacy is good, but the horde would never ally eachother, Orcs would ally with trolls and tauren, but Undead and Blood Elves would not ally with anyone!

it's stupid!

what do you think?

 

[HappyTauren]

WoW is stupid by itself.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

problem is, if you kept everything just as it should be it would be a shit game, lets be honest, wow is pretty fun but its only fun because it has been made to work. if you had ally and horde, and then three other factions it just wouldnt work. most games are made with the gameplay designed to be more engaging than the plot. usually a good balance is needed but wow is an mmo, and just like most online games they dont really need plots. to be honest i cant think of any online game that needs a plot; all they need is gameplay to attract the crowds.

to answer your question, i think that yeh the plot to wow is stupid, but me personally, i wouldnt have it any other way.

 

[Kwaliti]

Precisely, without retcons, the game would simply fail.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Hmm. . .the diplomacies. . .well they seem to work, indeed i wouoldn't see the forsaken ally with thrall because they didn't like to have. . .allies. . .but alliance between forsaken and BE i can see that. . since the leader of forsaken is Sylvannas, which brings to. . the fact that. . .when u play with undead. . .you are neutral with the rest of the horde (except BE). Also. . .finding the night elves. . .uhm. . .not so friendly as they are. . .they should also be neutral with the rest of the alliance. I have been wondering even in wc3. . .does the game follow the lore, or the lore follow the game, and tbh i think it's the second one.

 

[Perry_]

They could of made 3 factions.
Alliance: Humans, Dwarves, Night Elves
Horde: Orc, Trolls, Tauren
New Faction: Forsaken, Blood Elves, (something new)

Gnomes wouldn't have to be included as they weren't in WC3.

 

[Kimbo]

World of Warcraft's history is incorrect , the Undead would NEVER ally with anyone, same with Blood Elves, the Dranei are not supposed to be allied with anyone either, the alliance's diplomacy is good, but the horde would never ally eachother, Orcs would ally with trolls and tauren, but Undead and Blood Elves would not ally with anyone!

it's stupid!

what do you think?

Firstly, its FORSAKEN, a clearly conscious, controlled and separate faction from the undead scourge. They arnt relentless and mindless, they can make their own diplomatic choices on their own and to me siding with the horde is fine. There is notes in game that the alliance between the forsaken and horde was uneasy as it was stated Thrall was weary and the taurens disliked them for their sly and dark ways.
The forsaken arnt the same undead you saw in wc3 which were the scourge.
The BE dont fit with the horde but they dont exactly fit in with the alliance either as they left after much disputes. But the horde just like the alliance seem fit in getting rid of the scourge that plagues their land.
The draenei seems very acceptable in the alliance with the Alliance as they basically follow the same goals and focus.
One thing that is weird is that Thrall allows his people to condone and practice demonic magic :/
His life goal was to free his people from demonic addiction and undergo shamanism.....urgh..

Gnomes wouldn't have to be included as they weren't in WC3.

Also, ...gnomes? Read the lore on gnomes before hating the lore. Wow is like 3 or something years after the events of Wc3.

 

[VGsatomi]

Although I can see why the blood elves split from the alliance, yeah, I could never see them allying with the horde. The high elves and horde are sworn enemies. Plus, when Silvermoon was rebuilt, I would see Syvannes not hesitating one second to go back there, so a forsaken/high elf alliance would surely be plausible (both were victims of the scourge). The night elves are too reclusive to join any one side, so I don't see how they could have ever joined the alliance.

The horde races usually bonded together for one thing: mutual survival. Every race was threatened....the orcs due to the fact they had no homeland...the tauren by the centaur, the trolls by the murlocs, the forsaken by the alliance and scourge, and so on.....thats probably the only way the blood elves could have joined....they betrayed both the Alliance and Kael'thas, so their friends were few and far between and needed some sort of ally, but it just doesnt seem right for it to be the horde.

But all in all they needed balanced factions with a variety of races, and the horde surely needed its "charismatic" race (the alliance used to outnumber then horde 2 to 1 on most servers, now its almost the other way around just from all those people rolling BE's)... so they sacraficed some of the integrity of the lore in favor of game-playablility.

 

[GST_Nemisis]

they sacraficed some of the integrity of the lore in favor of game-playablility.

for me thats fine because game lore is usually bullshit anyways. only good lore examples are maybe like resident evil and metal gear solid and a handful of others, but usually lore doesnt matter because average joe sixpack wants to kill things and not have to worry about why hes doing it or who for.

 

[Shikage1111]

They could of made 3 factions.
Alliance: Humans, Dwarves, Night Elves
Horde: Orc, Trolls, Tauren
New Faction: Forsaken, Blood Elves, (something new)

Gnomes wouldn't have to be included as they weren't in WC3.

Yes, that would be perfect

 

[The Mystic Cow]

The Forsaken are using the Horde to their advantage. Even at the very beginning of the game when you start as one it says so. It also says that The other two main leaders of Thunder Bluff and Orgrimmer don't trust her, but because the Orcs have been through so much he says that everyone deserves a second chance. I believe the Blood elfs are High elfs or something like that, and they call thereselves Blood Elves because a lot of them were hurt in a battle. I also belive the leader of Orgrimmer was the first to lend a hand to them when they broke off from the battle. The dranai are the same way I think in the way that they crash landed from space, and needed help. Who was first to help? The allience. So ofcoarse they feel obliged to help them in anyway possible. Also gnomes were in Warcraft 3. They are the Helicopter people or whatever. Also World of Warcraft was not thinking about putting them in there until the last minute, (or so I heard) Hope I cleared things up!

 

[Andreja]

They called themselfs Blood Elves becouse they wanted Vengace against Arthas.

 

[The Mystic Cow]

Oh. But it was because of the undead battle that he caused right? I'm right on that right?

 

[Andreja]

Your right on that.

 

[Perry_]

I still find it a mystery how Thrall got in touch with the Forsaken. He left before the Scourge came in WC3 and most likely didn't hear about what happened.

Also the first people to lend a hand to the blood elves were the Naga. They're called Blood Elves not for vengeance but in Honor of their fallen kin.

 

[Edhel-dur]

Blood Elves are allied with The Forsaken, because the Forsaken leader is Sylvanas Windrunner, former RANGER-GENERAL of Silvermoon, and she was also one of the Windrunner family, how cannot you trust her ?

I never actually got to read why Forsaken are in the Horde, from what I know. . .they needed real allies. . .and thus they would accept almost any help. . .like the one from the Horde.

Prolly if wc4 will ever come out. . .you won't be seeing the most friendly relationship between orcs and forsaken.

 

[The Mystic Cow]

Like I said, the undead are using the Horde for their own good to realease some kind of thing so only they are left. Some of them want that others don't. It says it all when you make a new undead charector.

 

[Shikage1111]

Blood Elves are allied with The Forsaken, because the Forsaken leader is Sylvanas Windrunner, former RANGER-GENERAL of Silvermoon, and she was also one of the Windrunner family, how cannot you trust her ?

I never actually got to read why Forsaken are in the Horde, from what I know. . .they needed real allies. . .and thus they would accept almost any help. . .like the one from the Horde.

Prolly if wc4 will ever come out. . .you won't be seeing the most friendly relationship between orcs and forsaken.

it makes sense why the forsaken would ally the blood elves, but why would the forsaken or blood elves ally anyone else?

 

[EMPerror]

I'd like to see this kind of allieances

Alliance : Human, Gnome, Dwarf, Night elf
Horde : Orc, Tauren, Troll, Undead (or forsaken if u will -.-)
New alliance : Draenei, Blood elf, Naga, Goblins
i'd like the new alliance to be called - the outlanders or something ^^, and they will start at a location in outlands ofc (and i mean in a new spot /new spots where there are creeps/quests to levelup. Goblins will start somewhere in kalimdor (this is similar with multiple races, Undead start at the Western Kingdoms, and other hordes dont.
Draenei and blood elves were ALLIES in WC3 as far as i can tell, so they deserve that in WOW as well.
One of my fav races was naga, and i think that a race like that can be added with extra speed while swimming atleast. Besides, even if Ilidan was the leader of Naga, he is adressed as : The betrayer in WOW, so ...^^

 

[Kwaliti]

Eh... you're totally out of the loop, the Draenei Blood Elves worked with are the Ashtongue Deathsworn, a faction of the broken Draenei. Goblins have sworn neutrality with all factions, although there are some mercenaries. Naga? Useless, then you end up fighting Vashj which is completely stupid. Western Kingdoms? wtf? And Illidan ISN'T the Naga leader, Vashj is, and the supreme leader is Azshara.

 

[Shikage1111]

I'd like to see this kind of allieances

Alliance : Human, Gnome, Dwarf, Night elf
Horde : Orc, Tauren, Troll, Undead (or forsaken if u will -.-)
New alliance : Draenei, Blood elf, Naga, Goblins
i'd like the new alliance to be called - the outlanders or something ^^, and they will start at a location in outlands ofc (and i mean in a new spot /new spots where there are creeps/quests to levelup. Goblins will start somewhere in kalimdor (this is similar with multiple races, Undead start at the Western Kingdoms, and other hordes dont.
Draenei and blood elves were ALLIES in WC3 as far as i can tell, so they deserve that in WOW as well.
One of my fav races was naga, and i think that a race like that can be added with extra speed while swimming atleast. Besides, even if Ilidan was the leader of Naga, he is adressed as : The betrayer in WOW, so ...^^

that'd be awesome! and it's fare cause it has 4 races per alliance

 

[Mecheon]

Yaknow what? Its been a long time. I haven't torn into someone for months. I've been slacking

New alliance : Draenei, Blood elf, Naga, Goblins

Call them the Broken. Because you're not referring to those Draenei, you're refering to the Broken because the Broken are awesome

However, here's where we get to the fun part!

GOBLINS ARE NEUTRAL. THEY WILL NOT SIGN THEMSELVES UP WITH PEOPLE

Especially not demonically corrupted hoof guys or elves, or monsters from the depths of the ocean. Both of those factions have little to no influence on Azeroth, and Goblins are not stupid enough to sign up with them

You at least could have had the decency to say Pandaren or something equally stupid like that..

By the way, the Pandaren are mainly neutral pacifists who are neutral to both Horde and Alliance, so don't even start with them either

i'd like the new alliance to be called - the outlanders or something ^^, and they will start at a location in outlands ofc (and i mean in a new spot /new spots where there are creeps/quests to levelup. Goblins will start somewhere in kalimdor (this is similar with multiple races, Undead start at the Western Kingdoms, and other hordes dont.

Oh, so no races start in Eastern Kingdoms for this group? Poor them. Or didn't you realise that the Night Elves starting in Kalimdor was the balance to the Undead?

Also, the Goblins? They come from an island to the far south. Its called Kezan. Also, they'd still be neutral rather than throwing their lot in with a weak faction like this

Draenei and blood elves were ALLIES in WC3 as far as i can tell, so they deserve that in WOW as well.

And they are. Only cause of Illidan though

One of my fav races was naga, and i think that a race like that can be added with extra speed while swimming atleast. Besides, even if Ilidan was the leader of Naga, he is adressed as : The betrayer in WOW, so ...^^

And here we get the fun part!

Naga are completely and utterly unbalanced as characters, just like Dryads, Keepers of the Grove, dragons and some of the other hilariously overpowered races that people suggest

Firstly, Naga are eternally loyal to Azshara. She lives in the middle of the Maelstrom. She's god damn powerful and likely to become a raid boss in due time. Way to lock an entire faction out of content
Secondly, Naga can breathe underwater forever. This is unbalancing for some reason. Note how Undead just have a longer breath metre and not underwater breathing
Thirdly, the difference between male and female Naga is massive. Male naga are dumb brutes, while females are crafty 4 armed sorceresses who are lacking in the physical department
Fourthly, HOW THE HELL ARE THEY GOING TO MOUNT ANYTHING? Seriously, I've been through this one thousands of times. They don't have legs, and if you're checked out their models already, you'd see how badly they wear pants or robes, and that's before they even get to actually trying to get that body mounted with a generic enough animation to not look awkward on the bugger if I know how many different types of mounts there are in game at the moment

 

[Gilles]

There needs to be a subscribe method on the Hive. I would subscribe to all Mecheon posts.

 

[HappyTauren]

There is thread subscription you know

 

[Perry_]

It would have been cool to play from Illidan's side but the goblins wouldn't follow Illidan.

If I were givin the role of designer for WC4, heres what would happen:

Story Wise:
-Early on the Draenei leave in their spaceship and say good bye to the Alliance, in particular the Night Elves who took them under their wing.
-The Naga take Illidan's body to Azshara where a weird ritual is performed where he is revived and the Broken escape from Outland and build a new city in the Blasted Lands
-Due to a diplomatic incident the Forsaken and Blood Elves unally the Horde and become a new faction
-All followed by an epic campaign

Races selectable in melee maps:
-Humans
-Dwarves & Gnomes (Maybe make a new name which covers both)
-Night Elves
-Orcs (also includes trolls)
-Tauren
-Forsaken
-Blood Elves

A Brand new, even better World Editor!

Some nice smooth new graphics, not over the top but a nice improvement (those polygon models are getting dusty)

One can dream

 

[VGsatomi]

GOBLINS ARE NEUTRAL. THEY WILL NOT SIGN THEMSELVES UP WITH PEOPLE

WC2?



As for the dreanai/BE alliance, in warcraft 3....both were kind of forced into it. Kael'thas y had to be illidan's servant for the sake of gaining passage to outlands, while Akama's people were rrescued from the fel orcs by the illidan/BE alliance. Akama was a dreanai in wc3, or at least called himself that, but when WoW rolled around, him and all his people were suddenly Broken....dunno if they evolved/devolved during that time or if blizz simple decided to change their race to allow dreanai to be part of the alliance.
-VGsatomi

 

[anetherond]

I, for one, think there is nothing wrong with the current alliances (Both in the Alliance and the Horde). The Horde (means thrall) had his own interests to ally with the forsaken and the blood elves. When Brann asked him why he allied with the forsaken, "He grunted. He didn’t seem pleased about the idea either, and admitted
he expected them to betray him, but he simply felt that he needed allies — even if those allies were not completely trustworthy."
Thrall knows that his forces are too diminished to stand up to the combined might of the Alliance, the scourge and other organizations without outside help, and the Forsaken provide that help.

I can't see why people feel so reluctant about the Blood Elves joining the horde either- people do desperate things in desperate times. If it so hard for you to picture the orcs and the blood elves together; try to imagine another case, where blood elves and forsaken are together. Because this is the case. The only connection Silvermoon have with the other races of the horde is through the Forsaken (Which, I assume, is reasonable enough). This can be due to many reasons, but only the fact that they are allied with the Horde can be of a great influence on the balance of power. I also believe blizzard had paid much consideration on the matter and I accept their decision.

As for the Alliance, there is not much to say about this matter (though it has its own problems) but I will only say that the acceptation of the Draenei into the alliance is reasonable.

So no, World of Warcraft problem is not within the structure of the factions, not my problem at least.

Now, I have much to say about the classes and the other unplayable races, but this is another matter for another thread.

 

[Anything.]

From early Horde questing in Ragefire Chasm, Thrall reveals that he likes to keep his
enemies close because it is necessary to have bad to define what is good. In addition, the
Forsaken, as mentioned many times before, are using the Horde's power to reclaim their
place in Azeroth (after all, they are a sundered race that is reemerging into the world, and
by themselves, are powerless against the Alliance and the Scourge, both of whom would
defeat them. The Forsaken ally with the Horde because the Alliance have a hatred for the
Undead, especially Sylvanas for destroying great numbers of Human battle camps with the
aid of her Nathrezim allies; and the Scourge, carrying a hundredfold troops compared to the
Deathstalkers, wishes to assimilate them into their forces. Thrall's acceptance of his
enemies further strengthens their bonds).

In the end, though, Trolls, Orcs, and Taurens start off Neutral with the Forsaken, and the
Forsaken neutral with the other three. It's less of an allegiance than a neutrality, but on
both sides, strong and valiant warriors arise to fight for their greater interest, and thus are
able to rise up in the ranks.

The Blood Elves have relations with the Forsaken, as the Banshee Queen was once the
head Ranger of the Farstriders, an institution which has not yet dissipated and acts as a
relic of the past for both groups. Naturally, the Blood Elves wish to rejoin their former
leader in their crusade. In addition, the Blood Elves share the notion of reemerging into an
unfriendly world, where their own kin, High Elves and Humans, have rejected them.

Blood Elf - Horde relations are drawn from the fact that Blood Elves carry a great potential,
having the ability to channel various schools of magic adeptly from their gifted lineage.
Their relationship is greatly born from the Blood Elves' reunion with the Forsaken.

---------------------------------

Draenei: Blizzard reaaaalllly needed a new race to counterbalance the Blood Elves, so they
developed some lore about how they had to flee from Draenor, crash landing near Night
Elven Teldrassil. Blizzard says that the Draenei choose to ally with the Alliance because
they share a certain valor and divine respect for their foes and allies alike.

Gnomes in WC3 were hiding, creating new inventions, such as the Steam Tank or the
Gyrocopter. They were there. Just too small.

 

[Mecheon]

WC2?

WC2 is the reason why they don't ally with people any more. Goblins learned their lesson the hard way