Dismiss Notice
60,000 passwords have been reset on July 8, 2019. If you cannot login, read this.

Web MDX editor (Magos-like)

Discussion in 'Warcraft Editing Tools' started by GhostWolf, Jul 11, 2015.

  1. GhostWolf

    GhostWolf

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,952
    Resources:
    2
    Tools:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    This isn't a thing, but I thought about making it, and I am wondering if people would actually use it.

    I am talking about a modified version of the model viewer, with the possibility to load/save models from/to your computer, and edit them dynamically in the browser.

    Beyond editing, things such as the MDX optimizer, animation rescaling, and such, can be added.
     
  2. Gismo359

    Gismo359

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    780
    Resources:
    44
    Packs:
    4
    Maps:
    40
    Resources:
    44
    If people use Magos', then they will use this. Downloading it doesnt take long, but is a pain compared to just going to a website.
     
  3. PurgeandFire

    PurgeandFire

    Code Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2006
    Messages:
    7,429
    Resources:
    18
    Icons:
    1
    Spells:
    4
    Tutorials:
    9
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    18
    Just having a cross platform mdx editor is worth it in itself.
     
  4. oger-lord

    oger-lord

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    Messages:
    156
    Resources:
    2
    Maps:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    It would be cool to have a better vertex editor than magos, but I am not a fan of browser tools.
     
  5. GhostWolf

    GhostWolf

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,952
    Resources:
    2
    Tools:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    Whops, just remembered I would need to read the MPQs and local files for that, which is fine by itself, but it must be initiated by the user, which is annoying.
     
  6. Ezekiel12

    Ezekiel12

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,061
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Well wouldn't it be possible to upload the wc3 mpq's (or the files contained in it) to the hive?

    My opinion on the whole topic is that it would be cool, even ideal, having a good standalone (if you want in-browser) editor that doesn't have other requirements and is future proof for many years. But I guess you are not planing to build a complex feature-complete editor.

    Therefore for me it would be much better if NeoDex was polished and developed further.

    As you are not it's developer and might not be able to help there or just not want that, feel free to ignore my opinion :).
     
  7. Gismo359

    Gismo359

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Messages:
    780
    Resources:
    44
    Packs:
    4
    Maps:
    40
    Resources:
    44
    I think thats how the current viewer works.
     
  8. GhostWolf

    GhostWolf

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,952
    Resources:
    2
    Tools:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    It is indeed how the viewer works, however that wouldn't work for custom resources, since their textures won't be accessible.
    It also couples it with the hive = need to download resources instead of loading them locally.

    I wasn't planning on any geometry editing (partly because the MDX format for geometry is really annoying, partly because that's the whole big realm of 3D modeling software).

    So yeah, can't really get the viewer part to work locally, and there's not much of a point in making an editor without being able to view the result, hence I'll leave it to NeoDex.
     
  9. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,014
    Resources:
    12
    Models:
    5
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    12
    To be honest; I'm not a huge fan of browser tools; they a clunky, slow and create lots of compatibility issues with the different browsers people use.

    Rather, I'd love to have an updated version of Magos, which fixes some of the critical issues with Magos:
    --> More than one animation per node
    --> Animated Omnilights saving incorrectly
    --> No way to delete vertices
    --> Problems with displayal of ribbon emitters
    --> No displayal of attachment points
    --> No way to edit texture paths


    ... or you could funnel all your creative energy into creating a super-tool that combines magos, MDLVis and MatrixEater into a single toolset.
    Currently, a modeller more or less has to use 5 different tools:
    - MDLVis for animation edits, geoset editing and UVW mapping
    - Magos for node editing and importing textures from MPQs and particles/ribbons (but it sucks you can't see ribbons)
    - MDXpather for editing texture paths
    - BLPlab for compressing textures
    - MatrixEater for animation/geoset/bone transfers
     
  10. GhostWolf

    GhostWolf

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,952
    Resources:
    2
    Tools:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    You can do all the above model related things (and in a much less terrible workflow) with NeoDex.
    Sure, you'd need to work a little and learn how to use 3ds Max or Gmax, but that's actually a worthwhile skill in life, assuming you would want to get over Warcraft 3 one day.

    I also don't think browser tools are by definition clunky, slow, or create compatibility issues, this is just a matter of how they are made (as far as I can tell, the model viewer, for instance, is pretty sleek, runs really fast, and works on every updated browser).
    But this is somewhat off-topic.

    Anyway, like I said, since I can't actually make it work locally, it isn't really worth doing.
     
  11. LeP

    LeP

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2008
    Messages:
    479
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    I'm not a fan of it but you can make it run locally: bundle it with node.js which gives you file access and use some chromium-shell. I'm not experienced in this so you have to google it up yourself but it's definitely possible.
     
  12. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,014
    Resources:
    12
    Models:
    5
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    12
    Yeah, but Neodex requires a copy of 3ds max, which isn't that easy to get your hands on. Yes I know about the student's licence thing, but still; the five tools combined create a pretty powerful base to work with; without the need to download a 5 gigabyte modelling monstrosity.

    There is a market for small, independent specialized tools. I go as far to say that the availability of all these 3rd party free tools is what kept the WC3 mapping community alive over more than a decade...
    It's exactly what SC2 was lacking right from the start (which was ultimately due to Blizzard being lazy with the release of Art Tools).
     
  13. GhostWolf

    GhostWolf

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,952
    Resources:
    2
    Tools:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    I know that's a possibility, but that requires other things, such as a WebGL wrapper (which exists, but I don't know how stable it is), and other things.
    At this point it would probably be easier to just use another programming language, which I don't want to (to be honest, I am mostly daunted by creating UI, not even the code itself).

    Gmax is free.

    What I mostly dislike about the community made programs (I am really talking about the ones that offer actual modeling features), is that they tend to really do a bad job at encouraging proper modeling techniques, and I've gone over this a couple of times by now on some places on the hive.
    I am mostly referring to lacking common features such as extruding (because if you manually create vertices and connect them to form faces at this time and age........), terrible support for unwrapping (forget seams and advanced things, I am willing to go as far as add a bloody checkers pattern view!), and other complaints I had in the past and can't remember right now.

    I also don't think this is what SC2 lacked from the beginning, but rather the fact that it forced the user to use an old and obsolete version of 3ds Max that you couldn't get legally (great logic there!).

    But this is all off topic.
     
  14. Ezekiel12

    Ezekiel12

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2012
    Messages:
    1,061
    Resources:
    0
    Resources:
    0
    Ofc we would all prefer the super omnipotent standalone tool, but that's probably not gonna happen.

    Therefore a further developed NeoDex is the best option (also for sc2 I guess). So help Blinky if you can^^.

    When one day 3dsMax becomes too groovy to do any wc3 modeling because too many concepts changed, we will just bundle NeoDex with an old (obsolete) version of 3dsMax and nobody will care.
     
  15. Dr Super Good

    Dr Super Good

    Spell Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,131
    Resources:
    3
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    2
    Resources:
    3
    Allowing some form of cooperative development could be a cool feature. Since it is a web thing already once can assume internet connection. If a session instance could be linked to multiple clients with some rough synchronization it might be possible to have many modelers working at the same time. If the feature is ever used in practice is something that would need investigation however.

    If you are going for a model editor you could add more professional features, of which the final product just takes what WC3 supports. This could include down sampling geometry on meshes and things for finalization allowing people to develop in high poly meshes etc. I am not a modeller however so I would recommend asking around how the skilled ones go around making models.
     
  16. Ralle

    Ralle

    Owner

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2004
    Messages:
    11,463
    Resources:
    21
    Tools:
    2
    Maps:
    5
    Tutorials:
    14
    Resources:
    21
    Open!
     
  17. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    15,434
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    So, a bump because GhostWolf pretty much has the code for a Web Model Editor but all he needs is someone to make an UI for it, so basically someone with some web design experience.
    GhostWolf needs ways for him to code stuff like lists being minimized and maximized, location of stuff on the page. He needs a general idea of how it should look and work.

    An example of sorts would be:

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Zwiebelchen

    Zwiebelchen

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2009
    Messages:
    7,014
    Resources:
    12
    Models:
    5
    Maps:
    1
    Spells:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    JASS:
    4
    Resources:
    12
    Its good to have an alternative, but I think all focus should be on Reteras Model Editor to become the tool that does everything. Its open source so I dont see a reason why one should Develope this further when you could also help with Reteras.
     
  19. GhostWolf

    GhostWolf

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2007
    Messages:
    4,952
    Resources:
    2
    Tools:
    1
    Tutorials:
    1
    Resources:
    2
    I agree, that's my main contention about making such a tool.
    Retera's editor should be updated to support missing stuff.
    Of course, it's not like anyone in this community will actually "develop it further".
     
  20. deepstrasz

    deepstrasz

    Map Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2009
    Messages:
    15,434
    Resources:
    1
    Maps:
    1
    Resources:
    1
    Since you're a coder and from what I remember, Retera credited you for using your code, why not help him out?