Warhammer Club

[Crusad3r91]

From Lexicanum
although nominally a Chapter of the Astartes, they are in fact part of the Inquisition's Ordo Malleus,

Yup, you're right, my mistake. They're still SMs however, aren't they?

Ordo Malleus are called "Daemonhunters".

I know. BTW, did you know that "Ordo Malleus" meant "Order of the hammer"?

@ Pyramidhe@d: Tyranid's upgrades work pretty much like you said but, since I don't use them very much, I can't say right now which upgrades they use.

 

[Tyranid]

Grey Knights are Space Marines. The end of that. However they are mostly fielded by the Daemonhunters.

The Hive Tyrant upgrades with weapons and Carapace/exoskeleton and misc. upgrades just like every other commander. Same with the Lictor. I think you mean the Lictor does not have upgrades in TT, as every Tyranid creature can evolve in lore. There are even special Lictors have the Death Leaper.

 

[Crusad3r91]

In DoW2 Tyranids upgrades are called Biomorphs and there are about 9-10 for every "hero"; as an example, the Lictor has Pherormones, Loner, Terrific Face, Poison Claws, Scyting Claws and such, althought some of them don't look like morphing a lot (Loner, Terrific Face). ^^

And one curiosity thing about the IGs: they have a heavy british accent just like the Orks... =O

BTW, regarding the GKs, I realize now that I wrote a different thing from what I actually wanted to: I just wanted to say that, as you said after, GKs are just part of Ordo Malleus, but are not the Order itself. My apologies for such a mistake. D=
^^

 

[Tyranid]

Well I guess the IG's accents are because Games Workshop is a British company and the 2 languages of the Imperium in Low Gothic (English) and High Gothic (Latin) and guardsmen speak Low Gothic.
Then again the accents could be there just for fun too.

 

[Crusad3r91]

I like it anyway! ^^

 

[Velmarshal]

Space Marines Bolter is a 40mm caliber SMG.

 

[Crusad3r91]

An autocannon is 40mm, as far as I know. Bolters surely have a big caliber, but they fire mini-rockets, remember. =)

 

[Tyranid]

Bolters fire RPGs or mini-rockets, as Crusad3r91 said.

 

[Velmarshal]

RPG is a Rocket Propelled Grenade which is not the bolter.
Bolter is using 40mm bullets which have a smooth top.
All automatic weapons which use smooth top bullets are SMGs no matter the caliber.

 

[Tyranid]

No, the bolter LITERALLY shoots RPGs as in Rocket Propelled Grenades, NOT bullets. That's how it is and how it has always been.

 

[Velmarshal]

Does this look to you like a rocket?

 

[Tyranid]

... The lore has always stated that the bolter shoots RPGs and that's how it is now too.

 

[Velmarshal]

The story writers are not ammo and weapons specialists.
RPG:

 

[Tyranid]

Yes but they write the story, thus the Bolter fires RPGs no matter how much you try to contradict it. Face it, the year is 40,000 and this is Fantasy Science-Fiction so pretty much anything it possible and there ain't just 2 or 3 story writers, there are LOTS of them including people who know about weapons and ammo.

 

[Velmarshal]

Still it's an SMG.

 

[Tyranid]

And it shoots mini RPGs, if I forgot to mention that. Not RPGs as in the antitank RPG you posted.

 

[Velmarshal]

It's a HE(High Explosive) round not an RPG.

 

[Tyranid]

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bolt_Weapons
Bolt Weapons are smoothbore, semi and fully-automatic guns that fire a two stage projectile known as bolts. The bolt is more a miniature explosive rocket than a conventional bullet.

As the bolt round is fired and leaves the barrel, the bolt's tiny rocket is ignited, which carries the warhead forward and imparts a stabilising spin. In a conventional firearm, the projectile begins to lose velocity as soon as it leaves the barrel. A bolt, however, continues to accelerate throughout its trajectory due to the additional thrust.
So it's a mini RPG, or atleast closer to it.

 

[Velmarshal]

That's ci-fi bullshit (no offense).

 

[Tyranid]

Yes, but the bolter does fire RPGs, not bullets. As I already said, the year is 40,000 and it's Fantasy Sci-fi so anything can be possible, even SMGs firing RPGs.

 

[Velmarshal]

Ooh I've just noticed I have proven my point.
It's an SMG.

 

[Tyranid]

You're really going to arque about the realism of a SMG shooting RPGs in a universe where there are space ships bigger than planets and daemons running around and people shooting lightnings out of their fingers and cutting 16.25 meters (53 feet) tall walkers in half with a flick of a wrist.

 

[Velmarshal]

It lost it's realism at Self accelerating bolt.
It is possible but it's stupid.

 

[Tyranid]

 

[Velmarshal]

Seen it before. It has 43 different bullet types. It has 175m effective range.
Anyway, you wanna say bolter is a shotgun?

 

[Tyranid]

No I'm not saying the Bolter is a shotgun. I'm just saying something similar is already possible so the realism of the Bolter is more than possible.

 

[Velmarshal]

And far before 40.000.

 

[Tyranid]

Indeed, also are we arguing more over the actual usefulness of a gun like that in real life rather than the realism of it?

 

[Gespenst]

who can say it is not realistic if the science is theoretically possible can correct?

Who is to say the bullet is not designed and uses a different catalyst compound than today's firearms, in which case a bullet can have a sustained self-propulsion mechanism to increase lethal range and puncturing power?

Do you, mayhaps, have any scientific evidence sayting that this cannot ever be done in no way whatsoever, no matter what possible technologies that may or may not be developed?

The Bolter is not an RPG being the fact that it does not shoot Rocket Propelled Grenades. It fires rounds that self-propel, which fits the definition for rocket, but it, infact, is not a RPG because it is not a grenade by defintion (because the bullets are puncturing projectiles, not explosive ones by purpose).

 

[Velmarshal]

I'm not saying it's impossible. I am saying it is stupid.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

a large calibre gun that shoots explosives. we already have automatic greade launchers.

this one sounds pretty good candidate
good old hk
weighs 29 kg, easily weld by a SM
340 rounds/min, pretty fast (hk mp5 is about 800)
uses a 40mm grenades
1500m range, more than enough.

how hard it to miniturise that and make it into a bolter? not very hard
for all we know, the army probably made a batch of bolters, just not using them because nobody wears an armour thick enough and they dont see the need to bring those babies out.

 

[Crusad3r91]

Bolters' bullets are explosive. Never wondered were all the blood of a bolter-hit body came from? =)
And, anyway, if it is stupid, but it works, then it's not stupid. And I think bolters in WH40k work quite well, don't they? =)

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

it says here in this tabletop instruction manual...
"The Space Marine is armed with a boltgun (sometimes called a bolter), that fires a small rocket which explodes inside its target"

pretty gruesome stuff. ^__^

 

[Crusad3r91]

On a side note, I'll never understand why in my language "Bolter" has been translated in "Requiem", so you have Requiem rifles, heavy Requiems and so on. It's not a bad name for that weapons but, still, I don't understand it's translation. xD

 

[Gespenst]

Bolt Weapons are smoothbore, semi and fully-automatic guns that fire a two stage projectile known as bolts. The bolt is more a miniature explosive rocket than a conventional bullet.

As the bolt round is fired and leaves the barrel, the bolt's tiny rocket is ignited, which carries the warhead forward and imparts a stabilising spin. In a conventional firearm, the projectile begins to lose velocity as soon as it leaves the barrel. A bolt, however, continues to accelerate throughout its trajectory due to the additional thrust.
So it's a mini RPG, or atleast closer to it.

My source.

it says here in this tabletop instruction manual...
"The Space Marine is armed with a boltgun (sometimes called a bolter), that fires a small rocket which explodes inside its target"

You're souce

Its written by Brytyns anyhow.

Its not a grenade because its purpose is not to explode, but the expolsion is to enhance the bolter's bolt performance as a penetrating projectile.

 

[HailFireer]

On scientific note how to kame a RPB (rocket-propeled bullet).
First rockets were V1 and V2 who were huge. Now we habe realy small rockets. Then 50 yeaers ago (even less), computers were a size of a room , and now theyr so small. So same thing can happen to rocket propolsion. And they have 28000 years to do it (since SM were founded in 30 milenioum).
And Velm about that stupid, it is actualy wery usefull. Did you saw how big thos holes barels are? Imagine that something that big, made of Pb (chemical representative, dont know how its sed on english), with rocket propolsion was to hit you? Few could easaly take down T-Rex. Aldo they would be expensive.

 

[Gespenst]

Pb = Lead

And on another note...

What do you think of the blood ravens being the progeny of one of the missing legions?

Relic hints at the missing primarch alot, and they sperate the chapter-master from the "missing primarch" as refered to brother-captain davian thule.

 

[Mechanical Man]

I think the bolter rounds were based on this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet

 

[Tyranid]

The Blood Ravens were created from Thousand Sons geneseed, not one of the lost Legions. This was pretty much out right said in Index Astartes or a White Dwarf article (don't remember which it was again, perhaps both).

 

[Gespenst]

Not true, thats disputable. Cite yourself.

 

[Pyramidhe@d]

@ Mechanical man: hmm. it sounds exactly like what a bolter is. altho a bolt pistol is a close range weapon and it says gyrojet is not effective at close range due to its low initial velocity. maybe the bullet could initially powered by explosive combustion like conventional firearm and then sustain its velocity using the rocket

 

[Velmarshal]

Mechanical Man, Wtf, wooden M16?

 

[HailFireer]

Blood Ravens are surely not from Missing legions. Missing legions were gona and noone knows anything about em (like Blood Ravens), but they are not fighting for Imperioum. They just went somewhere and newer returned (unlike Blood Ravens). And it is sure that Blood Ravens came from 1 of the 9 main chapters of SM..

 

[Gespenst]

Here's the facts about the blood ravens:


The emperor made and found all 20 primarchs.

They come from a primarch, who is either unknown or unstated.

They have a seperate chaptermaster, so they aren't confused.

They were around the time of the horus heresy (their artifacts show this.)

They have alot of psykers(librarians).

Just looks like something DoW2 will elaborate on.

Who is to say what happened to the missing legions? during the horus heresy they could've been away like the dark angels, or maybe just the primarch was and his legion was busy looking for him. Or the blood ravens never had a primarch, only his geneseed.

 

[Tyranid]

The Blood Ravens are NOT a missing legion nor a 2nd founding chapter from one. My proof:
1. They are LOST and also is their Geneseed thus no 2nd founding chapters.
2. The Primarch the Blood Ravens refer to is the Primarch of the legion the chapter was CREATED FROM, not the actual primarch of the chapter itself. The Primarch is also Magnus the Red (Thousand Sons Primarch).
3. The Horus Heresy artifacts could just be from the Legino they descended from.
4. The Psykers is no proof at all. It strengthens their link to the Thousand Sons even more.
5. Blood Ravens were created by Relic and Relic has no rights to change Games Workshop lore. Making Blood Ravens one of the lost legions or a chapter descended from them changes lore greatly.

The Legions are LOST! There is absolutely nothing that remains from them. The Blood Ravens were created from Thousand Sons geneseed.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Velm, how the gun works, not the appearance.

 

[Crusad3r91]

Still, we can only have an idea of were did the Blood Ravens come from, but there's nothing sure. Indeed lots of psykers can be a link to the Thousand Sons, but it's not sure at all. However, in the DC campaign, Eliphas talks to Thule as "brother": this can either mean they are both Space Marines (who, ten thousand years before, were actually "brothers") or that they are both linked to chaos (Word Bearers and, probably, Thousand Sons).

EDIT:

Some events about DC and SS told in DoW2

It seems that, in DoW2, some events of DC and SS are revealed. They say that SMs destroyed the Tau in DC but were attacked by IG in their Castellum, so they bombarded it. It also says that Blood Ravens have some problems with the inquisition (DC events).
About SS, all I know is that Boreale died. They just say: "Kaurava has been a terrible mistake".

 

[Tyranid]

Once again, the whole Blood Ravens being created from Thousand Sons was out right stated in an article! I'll try looking for it but I doubt I'll find it. Also the whole "brother" thing was more likely just Eliphas taunting Thule, because neither of them could have existed during the Horus Heresy (they could only be biological brothers if they were created back then), or Eliphas COULD have but it is unlikely. On the other hand Thule cannot be from the Horus Heresy as no loyalist Space Marine from Horus Heresy exists anymore, except a Space Wolf SM but he is in a dreadnought.

The oldest Space Marine alive currently is Commander Dante of the Blood Angels and he is 1200 years old.

Also I'm almost certain that the whole "Kaurava system was a horrible mistake" that Cyrus says is a joke by Relic to mock Soulstorm(which wasn'tdeveloped by Relic btw), and how horrible the expansion was even if the Dark Eldar were awesome.

 

[Crusad3r91]

Also I'm almost certain that the whole "Kaurava system was a horrible mistake" that Cyrus says is a joke by Relic to mock Soulstorm(which wasn'tdeveloped by Relic btw), and how horrible the expansion was even if the Dark Eldar were awesome.

Yes, I thought about that, even if I don't find SS that horrible. xD

 

[Gespenst]

Tyranid. Insisting on the truth without evidence will not make it any more truthful, even though it is a theory I myself consider(thus the reason for pointing out the psyker detail.) This ties in with the theory of the 21st founding chapters being made from traitor geneseeds.

And good luck finding that article, I doubt it exists.

Relic has rights from Games Workshop to make the software game, and as such, can create canon material (with the discretion of Games Workshop).

The 2nd primarch is the missing one, and a legion from them is not discounted(but discouraged) which leads for the possiblity of a "stolen" geneseed for the blood ravens.

Indeed, the emperor made all 20 primarchs and met all 20. This means he knows the fate of the missing primarchs and may have procured geneseeds from them of thier own volition or otherwise.

And the dark eldar would be cooler if they were acually a chaos race :/.