Warcraft: A New Dawn

[SasuhKun]

A good idea, though in some things they are slightly twisted. I'm not mentioning WoW Lore, for it has been drastically changed to fit with the MMORPG style of game, but other things... Right now, the main focus is the lich king. Well, it looked like it was, after all, everyone want to kill HIM, though the Burning Legion remains a threat. So how the heck can they not have a race?

There should be 8 races... it seems. Aside from the ones you mentioned:

Demons - Great power, but vulnerable in some ways. Like really vulnerable.

Forsaken - Aside from some normal undead warriors (with the exception of death knights, crypt fiends, frost wyrms, and some necromancers) , they would have possessed and corrupted many specimen from Lordaeron. Elfs (The Banshee queen herself... reminds pretty much the Queen of Blades, a corrupted ghost from SC...) barbarian races such as gnolls, ogres and some human. They would also conduct experiments to explore the mind-created plague (which is of fungus origin... yeah, Ner Zhul created a dangerous and expansive parasitic organism with his tremendous magic. He's what's more remembers me of a God.. a evil God, but a god. The only more powerful than him would be Sargeras himself... if he died in the hands of Medivh's mother and even so persisted and possessed Medivh... why after getting killed he wouldn't escape? Amidst this chaos would be the perfect time to arise once again...) and make beast undead creatures from the possessed creatures... and propably human corrupted assassins and spies.

Scourge: The undead core itself. More powerful than ever, more expansive than ever, mote terrifying than ever.

Horde: Pretty much the orcs as we seen in wc3, with the addition of more natural beasts tamers and raiders (think Tauren shamans and the Mother Earth, as well as Rexxar's influence.)

Alliance: Theramore/South Alliance: The few remaining bastions of humanity, faith, and light, trying to keep the votes of honor and duty while they still stand. The humans once again venture into the dreamed and dreaded world of magic, but some of course shall never betray their fighting spirit and stay to fight with a sword and shield. And the dwarfs make more and more technological advances...

Savage Humans: The survivors, the freedom fighters. They fight for their very own lives, and still harness some chaotic magic from books scattered through the ruins. By the fusion of determination to survive and their hatred for what the Scourge and the Burning Legion did to them, they live on.

Syndicate: Naga, Blood Elfs, and Draenei. Their hunger of magic, hatred and vengeance upon all who banished them moves them foward. With technology and magic from blood elfs, Draenei's mystic energy and devotion, and the Naga loyalty and merciless, they join their leader and follow him wherever they go.

Night Elfs: Not much to add here, aside from the fading of their powers and they try to live again as mortals. Though errors and imperfections do teach more than perfection...


And you forgot to mention some important things... like for example what of the southern kingdoms of the Eastern Azeroth. For reasons unknown, they are not mentioned anywhere. The Allied forces of the south are also a great faction. They cannot just disappear.. if they did disappear, them make it clear as how and what happened to the south of it. (If you look at the main description, apparently the south of eastern kingdoms are completely "empty of intelligent life".) After all, even with the Burning Legion, Stormwind and Ironforge were considered really strong forces. And in my opinion, even the Dark Iron dwarfs would join the fight, (as the orcs joined with the humans in the time of great peril.) And stood up until the Burning Legion was defeated by the second time. If the remnants of the Scarlet Crusade survived, how could not two great almost unnafected kingdoms could not?)

 

[The World Is Flat]

ADMIN

The plauge, in our lore, didn't just hit loaderon. it spread across the south too. the dwarves are retreating and fortifying (except for the dwarves with thereamore. the 'remenants' are the remains of the south and loaderon. the south was hit by: demons, undead, and the plauge. and also, we are writing a history of the 8 months between... but i love yor enthusiasm mate!

 

[mouseman89]

isnt it supposed to be wc lore? then maybe (once again i suggest this) be able to be undead and attack south ? for campaign only?

 

[The World Is Flat]

Well, ike i said, alot of things are gonig to be in the campaigns that arent in melee.

 

[Reaper51]

Well first comes melee, and then we will do the campaigns which contain the full story. Many things that are going to be cut from melee due to game balance issues will either appear as creeps on some melee maps or in the campaigns.

 

[Taylor Mouse]

No update pic for today, I did smaller the feet and enlarged the muscles, the pecto's and legs somewhat, and I made the lower legs a bit "rounder".

I also installed Zbrush to start the Normal Mapping, maybe I'll need some advice from Morphius, cause he's good at Zbrush


So now some tutorials, any good ones ?

T.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Guys, please remember seven campaigns that follow a decent story is no easy feat, there are numerous reasons why the scourge is unplayable and the dwarves are not there own race, if that still doesn't convince you...

Think of all the RTS games you may have played in your life, less races usually = better and more balanced. Six is pushing, eight would be over the top...

Sc2 = 3 races. Wc1\2 = 2. Wc3 = 4. Etc...

Why is it that you 'want' to be the scourge? Tell us and we will consider it but right now, we don't see what benefit it would have, especially since they are radically similar to the forsaken, who 'currently' play a much bigger part against humans, in our lore.

E.g. Are you dying to play as Arthas?

Is six races, really not enough?

Is the forsaken boring in comparison?

Speak up and it may change, stay cryptic and we'll stick with what we've got.

Please guys I'm loving the feedback and crticism but we can't act on what your giving us!
Say 'why' and how should we change things, rather than just what.

Cheers and thanks ever so much for your continued support, we will honestly endeavour to listen if you explain your comments in more detail.

Grey

EDIT: Sasuhkun, Stormwind and Ironforge were alive in wc3 but not playable, neither did they take part, why so shocked they aren't playable in wciv? Remember we haven't said anything about 'campaign appearances' just just playable races.

 

[Taylor Mouse]

Not dying to play arthas but dying to kill him in a story

 

[Fussiler1]

I'll post my assignment today.

 

[The World Is Flat]

ADMIN:

Listen to Grey. Good work fuss. Taylor, if you haven't already check the 3d modeling tuts on the hive, or go to zbrush's website, they might link.

 

[Omniferous]

Why is it that you 'want' to be the scourge? Tell us and we will consider it but right now, we don't see what benefit it would have, especially since they are radically similar to the forsaken, who 'currently' play a much bigger part against humans, in our lore.

E.g. Are you dying to play as Arthas?

Tbh, it's because I waited. The lights above me blinked and sparked out of the air. There were scourge in the base. I didn't see them, but had expected them now for years. My warnings to Cernel Joson were not listenend to and now it was too late. Far too late for now, anyway.

But now in the map Wc4: Sc2 I knew there were Scourge.
“This is Joson” the radio crackered. “You must fight the demons!”
So I gotted my palsma rifle and blew up the wall.
“HE GOING TO KILL US” said the scourge
“I will shoot at him” said Arthas and he fired the rocket missiles. I plasmaed at him and tried to blew him up. But then the ceiling fell and they were trapped and not able to kill.
“No! I must kill the scourge” I shouted
The radio said “No, Omniferous. You are the scourge”
And then I was a zombie."

---

On a more serious note, Midnight has a point. If you've seen maps like Glory of the Horde, Dark Ages of Warcraft, Lordaeron Tactics, etc., you'll know that the more races, the more difficult the balancing. And that's with preset player positioning, terraining, defenses, etc.

 

[The World Is Flat]

ADMIN:

Well, you are EXACTLY right. EXACTLY. Thats why we plan on spending a LONG time in the alpha and beta phases of the melee. Talk to Fulla for more information on melee balance.

 

[kingbdogz]

One thing I don't like about this modification is that even though it's supposed to be a proper sequel, it's instead alienating the Warcraft fans. Removing a core race like the Undead from the melee races is BAD, people look forward to sequels because they get what they originally had in the previous game but with better graphics and features. You've also changed the core races a lot, making them very different. Adding 6 or as someone suggested, 8, is also just making things too complicated. Just because the Burning Legion is in the story that doesn't mean they deserve to be melee race. There is a reason Blizzard removed the Burning Legion from the Warcraft III melee races.

 

[The World Is Flat]

One thing I don't like about this modification is that even though it's supposed to be a proper sequel, it's instead alienating the Warcraft fans. Removing a core race like the Undead from the melee races is BAD, people look forward to sequels because they get what they originally had in the previous game but with better graphics and features. You've also changed the core races a lot, making them very different. Adding 6 or as someone suggested, 8, is also just making things too complicated. Just because the Burning Legion is in the story that doesn't mean they deserve to be melee race. There is a reason Blizzard removed the Burning Legion from the Warcraft III melee races.

ADMIN:

You are EXTREMLY wrong: (imo)

1. as we all know, we are competeing projects (as you said yourself) so the validity of your statment is questionable.

2. The forsaken easily replace the scourge as the undead race in melee. Lore wise, THEY ARE A CORE RACE. Also lore wise, it would be rediculous to consider the undead a feasable race. Arthas is the most powerful being on azeroth. although fans have nothing to fear, he and the scourge will be featured EXTENSIVLY.

3. The burning legion fits in well lore-wise, does deserve to be a melee race, and should be. (its also epically cool now, and it seems in our alpha builds to have prospects. I could make some arguments against the races as the way they are in your lore aswell... adress your issues before you comment on ours without thinking in-depth about the lore, gameplay and community factor.

4. Do you know that reason why blizzard removed them?

5. Our mod is BASED on community feedback. The community WANTED the demons. and the forsaken. and outland.

6. our mod will be finished only after we are happy with it. EXTREMLY extensive balancing. We are confident it is possible. and our mod will be the primere wc4 conversion. we are currently only in an alpha builds.

BOTTOM LINE:
We are satisfied with our decisions. Our mod is based off community feedback, so all of our decisions are made BASED OFF OF WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS. (sorry if my respose was agressive. but your question did merit a provocative awnser.)

 

[Fulla]

Well Arthas went to Northrend and is pretty much isolated. The Forsaken are alot more involved with the conflicts going on. I wouldn't quite say undead have been removed, there still there just slightly different and now have alot more options for characters and storyline.

As for demons, there very cool, if you're going to increase the races from 4-6 why not have them? It will be pretty challenging to build them into a playable race, but well worth the effort in the end.

Maybe of the current races have allied together or splintered to few making it difficult to build them into something. Demons are one of the few who stand truly alone and have a whole legion of options to back them up as a fully playable race.

Blizzard probably removed them as they were the bad guys against every race, you couldn't really play them.

I do agree thou, players will be looking for something similar to warcraft 3 in a way, but remember warcraft 3 diverged quite alot from warcraft 2, to make it a much better game.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

One thing I don't like about this modification is that even though it's supposed to be a proper sequel, it's instead alienating the Warcraft fans. Removing a core race like the Undead from the melee races is BAD, people look forward to sequels because they get what they originally had in the previous game but with better graphics and features. You've also changed the core races a lot, making them very different. Adding 6 or as someone suggested, 8, is also just making things too complicated. Just because the Burning Legion is in the story that doesn't mean they deserve to be melee race. There is a reason Blizzard removed the Burning Legion from the Warcraft III melee races.

I'm not going into details, TWIF and Fulla have already covered it.

What I will say is this: Your comment is extremely unpleasant and unwelcome, it's like your actually trying to ruin people's opinion of our project, the quote "even though it's supposed to be a proper sequel, it's instead alienating the Warcraft fans" is the evidence of this.

We have never, ever stated that this is supposed to be a 'proper' sequel, we can't - were not Blizzard, we don't have the right. Alienating Warcraft fans? I suggest you go and look up the word's meaning before using it in such a context, how can 'we' alienate them? It's up to them if they play it or not, some will like it and others won't, the majority seem to belong to the former and all but you in the latter have given good, valid reasons for their disapproval.

It doesn't help your case, being head of another project entitled "Warcraft IV" , seriously dude, we have absolutely no interest in arguing/competing against you and it's such a shame to see you believe otherwise.

Stick to your project, we'll stick to ours, you want to give us feedback?

Make it constructive next time.

I'm sure the time you spent picking out flaws in our project could've been better spent managing your own.

 

[The World Is Flat]

Also i noticed your decision to change to sc2, as soon as you saw us appear. bad sportsmanship sir. Your comment, whlie maybe intending to be constructive, was ill thought out and concived, and is easily precived as a troll of our deication and hard work. It is apparent that you are not here to be constructive. So, please refrain from posting, mindless sensless comments.


Shame on you.

 

[SasuhKun]

Guys, please remember seven campaigns that follow a decent story is no easy feat, there are numerous reasons why the scourge is unplayable and the dwarves are not there own race, if that still doesn't convince you...

Think of all the RTS games you may have played in your life, less races usually = better and more balanced. Six is pushing, eight would be over the top...

Sc2 = 3 races. Wc1\2 = 2. Wc3 = 4. Etc...

Why is it that you 'want' to be the scourge? Tell us and we will consider it but right now, we don't see what benefit it would have, especially since they are radically similar to the forsaken, who 'currently' play a much bigger part against humans, in our lore.

E.g. Are you dying to play as Arthas?

Is six races, really not enough?

Is the forsaken boring in comparison?

Speak up and it may change, stay cryptic and we'll stick with what we've got.

Please guys I'm loving the feedback and crticism but we can't act on what your giving us!
Say 'why' and how should we change things, rather than just what.

Cheers and thanks ever so much for your continued support, we will honestly endeavour to listen if you explain your comments in more detail.

Grey

EDIT: Sasuhkun, Stormwind and Ironforge were alive in wc3 but not playable, neither did they take part, why so shocked they aren't playable in wciv? Remember we haven't said anything about 'campaign appearances' just just playable races.

Hmm... I, at least, never wanted to dwarfs to be on their own.

And unless the human survivors reach somewhat a good degree of civilization, they would be a different "race" in-game. About the Scourge...

1. You named the undead race as Forsaken. If the scourge is that close to the forsaken (which if you use those ideas of using the possessed creatures in experiments and that sort of thing, doing things that scourge would never do and all... they would be even more different. Aside from some thigns that ARE FROM the scourge and others that are FROM Forsaken... death knights usually stick up with Scourge, as well as frost wyrms and some necromancers...) then instead of Forsaken, they should be renamed Undead, because Forsaken and Scourge are on the same race.

2. Again, TLK is too important to be left out like that... either he'll have a race (and be playable, as you will not waste your time making a unplayable race) , or do above. (with some little differences like Scourge-Burning Legion in wc3... Burning Legion were Scourge being able to do doomguards from their crypts lol.

3. It is obvious that everyone wanted to play as Arthas as Lich King once :B

About Southern Kingdoms... I never said they would be played (I think) I just said that you cannot just ignore it. It doesn't even MENTION it in the main description. And that's a pretty big hole... It is half a continent! You should provide more information on them, that's all. (And they're propably the closer bastion of human resistance in EK... the second closer to would be Theramore... which needs transport ships which is rather difficult to do in their current situation. The survivors, I meant.)

Resuming, I'm just pointing out some holes (yes, HOLES) and some mistakes (in my opinion) in the description and the idea overall. I hope I've helped.

Keep up the good job!

 

[Grey Nightmare]

1. You named the undead race as Forsaken. If the scourge is that close to the forsaken (which if you use those ideas of using the possessed creatures in experiments and that sort of thing, doing things that scourge would never do and all... they would be even more different. Aside from some thigns that ARE FROM the scourge and others that are FROM Forsaken... death knights usually stick up with Scourge, as well as frost wyrms and some necromancers...) then instead of Forsaken, they should be renamed Undead, because Forsaken and Scourge are on the same race.

This story also completely disregards World of Warcraft lore.

Again, the Forsaken is only formed towards the end of The Frozen Throne, we are crafting them in our own views, not WoW's.

As for the humans, you do have a point - the humans may indeed look for sanctuary in the north, but where is Arthas coming from... ? Wait and see what happens

 

[Masiah]

Long made short, gtfo.

On the other hand, TWIF... Arthas is badass, but he ain't the most powerful creature on Azeroth.

 

[Taylor Mouse]

Do we have her in the demon pile

T.

 

[Taylor Mouse]

And of course this guy is in the orc list

T.

 

[Fussiler1]

I'm not going into details, TWIF and Fulla have already covered it.

What I will say is this: Your comment is extremely unpleasant and unwelcome, it's like your actually trying to ruin people's opinion of our project, the quote "even though it's supposed to be a proper sequel, it's instead alienating the Warcraft fans" is the evidence of this.

We have never, ever stated that this is supposed to be a 'proper' sequel, we can't - were not Blizzard, we don't have the right. Alienating Warcraft fans? I suggest you go and look up the word's meaning before using it in such a context, how can 'we' alienate them? It's up to them if they play it or not, some will like it and others won't, the majority seem to belong to the former and all but you in the latter have given good, valid reasons for their disapproval.

It doesn't help your case, being head of another project entitled "Warcraft IV" , seriously dude, we have absolutely no interest in arguing/competing against you and it's such a shame to see you believe otherwise.

Stick to your project, we'll stick to ours, you want to give us feedback?

Make it constructive next time.

I'm sure the time you spent picking out flaws in our project could've been better spent managing your own.

Bzzt! Drama! It's everywhere!

It's the internet, guys, just calm down. T.T.

Now, time to dismantle the other post.

One thing I don't like about this modification is that even though it's supposed to be a proper sequel, it's instead alienating the Warcraft fans.

Warcraft III was a lot different then Warcraft II, heard of variation?

Removing a core race like the Undead from the melee races is BAD

Forsaken represent the Undead, and hell, and in the campaign, they are also featured? Why? They have an interesting lore and have lots of potentional.

people look forward to sequels because they get what they originally had in the previous game but with better graphics and features.

Starcraft II -has- better features and graphics.

You've also changed the core races a lot, making them very different. Adding 6 or as someone suggested, 8, is also just making things too complicated.

So what? This gives more variation to the player and it's fun to design races and make them yourself.

Just because the Burning Legion is in the story that doesn't mean they deserve to be melee race. There is a reason Blizzard removed the Burning Legion from the Warcraft III melee races.

The Legion is probably going to play a more actual role in this mod, thus why it's added. (?)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although I don't like some ideas of this mod, it gives the player variation, and constantly the same is boring. People can only expect extreme success with many different features.

Also, at last.

a troll

A troll would be someone who flames to get attention or just for fun, like a fisher who has bait to lure fishes.

5. Our mod is BASED on community feedback. The community WANTED the demons. and the forsaken. and outland.

A few people is the whole community?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Sorry Fuss, but some things have to be said. I'm not going to take it any further promise

Thanks for the final rundown, hopefully it will get the point across; It's a community, we should help each other!

EDIT: Actually Fuss; "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community"

It could be considered trolling, so I see where TWIF was coming from, though he's finished now I hope, let's all get back to our own business.

 

[The World Is Flat]

ADMIN

Fuss, also, i have asked and looked or alot more that what you think. i have asked about 20 people. atleast 15 o them want demons and forsaken.

About the forsaken/scourge similarity. the forsaken are the sworn enemies of the scourge. thats one of the primary reasons the scorge is not in melee. they are very similar to the forsaken in acual gameplay. another is the scourge is way to imba.

Masiah: it has been stated in lore that arthas is one of the most powerful beings on azeroth now. probably closer to the old gods than anything else.

About the dwarves/south. like i said, i DID give them attention. i explained their defeat... the scourge marched there aswell. the plauge struck. the remeants are thr remenats of loaderon and the southern kingdoms. the dwarves, on par with lore. are fortifying.

let me know it theres anything left to explain

{EDIT}
ADMIN

oh yeah, forgot taylor, rofl, 'bout the only useful comment on this page (other than SasuhKun's)

Taylor. both are awesome. you have my permission to make the demon chick. (but bigger wings plox, maybe a jaina-esq face, but demonified.)

 

[Fussiler1]

[...]

Anyways, here is my assignment.

Illidan is a pussy

And as the mighty Icecrown fell down to the earth, the Naga and the Blood Elves fought through the masses of Undead simply to get to their masters body. After a great battle with the Blood Elves and Nage finally breaking through, they managed to get Illidan. In a hasty retreat, they had many casualties on their side. The Undead pursued them and harrassed them all the way, and the way through the mountains was deadly and dangerous. Many soldiers got sick... However, finally they managed to reach the coast. Just before the Undead had burned their fleet, they managed to escape and they left Northrend behind. The Outlandish Fleet sailed towards the Eastern Kingdoms, landing somewhere near Dalaran. They wasted no time with fighting the Scourge nor the humans. Simple and quickly they avoided any enemies and hasted themselves to the portal the Blood Elves had usd to enter Outland. Illidan was showing little to none improvement in his state, and the wound Frostmourne had made was only getting worse with an infection. The Naga and Blood Elves were spotted by a compagny of the Scourge, and this ended in a battle being fought at the portal of Dalaran, with Lady Vashj and Prince Kael'thas destroying the Death Knight of the compagny. The travel through the portal went rather slow, because the portal could only handle two persons at once passing through. After a week, the complete army arrived through the portal. However, the portal had spewed out soldiers of the Syndicate all over the regional area where it stood, and it took a week again to regroup. Remnants of loyalists to Magtheridon had spotted the return of the forces of Illidan and feared to lose their grip on Outland once more. In the absence of the main army of Illidan and Illidan himself Akama was left alone to control Outland, but the wise seer could not stand against the remnants of the legions of Magtheridon, as the Draenei were almost extinct through constant warfare with the Horde and later Magtheridon and his demons. Several groups that still weren’t found were attacked by bloodlusty demons and brutally destroyed. Without knowing about this threat, they continued to move to the stronghold of Illidan. They found many obstacles in their way, but everyone simply thought it was coincidence. Even if there were survivors of Magtheridon’s army who weren’t enslaved, Orcs nor demons would simply attack them head-on, except of slowing them down. However, these were led by an Eredar, the former right-hand of Magtheridon.
Finally, Illidan’s condition started to become better. The gaping wound he had was cleaned and he was possible to speak again to his followers. The army continued in rejoice, not knowing what was about to come.
The Eredar Commander led his forces into making an ambush, forcing them with brute force to obey his will. Whilst the Syndicate was marching, the trap sprung and Demons and Fel Orcs attacked from all side. The Naga formed a shield around the Blood Elves, as they had the spellcasters, and Kael’thas with his spellcasters rained death and fire upon the enemy. The Spell Breakers defended them from any enemy magic and destroyed the Eredars by breaking their fel magics and ripping their source of power out them. The ambush ended with the attackers fleeing, whilst the Syndicate of Outland was victorious.
Aside from this, Illidan could finally walk again and was almost permanently healed from the almost-fatal blow Arthas had made.
There were many casualties amongst the army before they reached the fortress of Illidan, the Black Temple. Ambushes kept coming and kept hitting, whilst effective Fel Guards managed to get much victims with their suicidal charges. The Eredar Commander had meanwhile fled to the siege site of the Black Temple.
Finally, the army of Illidan arrived, only to see a big army laying siege at their fortress. Kael’thas and Lady Vashj readied their men and attacked! Many demons were caught by surprise and slaughtered, but then they regrouped. They striked back with great power and were driven to the ultimate by the Eredar commander.
Just as everything seemed lost, a great figure appeared in the sky, bearing tattoos and the Twin Blades of Azzinoth! It was Illidan himself, and he charged down, killing the Eredar who lead this army almost immediately. Suddenly, the Draenei attacked from their besieged position, and the demons and Fel Orcs were trapped. A massive slaughter occurred that day, and the final remains of the influence Magtheridon had over Outland disappeared for good. Illidan once more inherited his throne, with Akama, Lady Vashj and Kael aiding him.
But now… Illidan had to face even something bigger and stronger.

The wrath of Kil’jaeden.

The last lines are kinda optional, though. =)

 

[Modhell]

with war 3 the 4 races had different building and resource harvesting methods... are you planning to keep the main 4 styles for your similar races and introduce 2 new means of racial building in the game for your demon factions?

 

[The World Is Flat]

Lots of new means

 

[Grey Nightmare]

with war 3 the 4 races had different building and resource harvesting methods... are you planning to keep the main 4 styles for your similar races and introduce 2 new means of racial building in the game for your demon factions?

The 'typical' races will remain fairly similar at heart, but it's a new engine, new story etc, so expect a fair bit of freshening up

Yes, Demons and Outland will be very different I presume (at least in comparison to the rest).

EDIT: Fuss will look at your story soon, but just got a beta key off Ralle YAY!

 

[Taylor Mouse]

Yeah TWIF, thanks, cause no one else seem to notice the artworks just a lot of bla bla, lol

Anyways back to MAX, Zbrush and Photoshop for me

T.

 

[mouseman89]

ADMIN

Fuss, also, i have asked and looked or alot more that what you think. i have asked about 20 people. atleast 15 o them want demons and forsaken.

About the forsaken/scourge similarity. the forsaken are the sworn enemies of the scourge. thats one of the primary reasons the scorge is not in melee. they are very similar to the forsaken in acual gameplay. another is the scourge is way to imba.

Masiah: it has been stated in lore that arthas is one of the most powerful beings on azeroth now. probably closer to the old gods than anything else.

About the dwarves/south. like i said, i DID give them attention. i explained their defeat... the scourge marched there aswell. the plauge struck. the remeants are thr remenats of loaderon and the southern kingdoms. the dwarves, on par with lore. are fortifying.

let me know it theres anything left to explain

if the undead (scourge) was playable then it could be the first campaign, the scourge marches southward while the lich king is absent doing whatever (which could be revealed later)

 

[The World Is Flat]

Great. Taylor, thanks for your dedication, cant wait to see whats next!

I will repeat again:

THE SCOURGE WILL NOT BE PLAYABLE.

 

[mouseman89]

or a in-game cinematic that shows them attacking southward at least...

 

[The World Is Flat]

Also, the scourge wil lmost likley be the LAST camp.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Yeah TWIF, thanks, cause no one else seem to notice the artworks just a lot of bla bla, lol

Anyways back to MAX, Zbrush and Photoshop for me

T.

Haha, sorry about that. We did all get a bit sidetracked

Lovely images and real dedication (last line)

EDIT: Fuss, your story looks ok atm, I'll double check it tomorrow when I'm not brain-dead... :/ c ya then

 

[SasuhKun]

Again, the Forsaken is only formed towards the end of The Frozen Throne, we are crafting them in our own views, not WoW's.

As for the humans, you do have a point - the humans may indeed look for sanctuary in the north, but where is Arthas coming from... ? Wait and see what happens

WoW's? What the heck? Where you saw WoW's lore? I just said about their differences and similarities... they are both similar enough to be one race and they are different enough to be two. For example, Scourge makes a lot more use out of Death Knights, Frost Wyrms and usually Necromancers and Crypt Fiends. And I also know that if I were Sylvanas, I would make use of the possessed creatures to create new and powerful things, perfect weapons against the Frozen Throne... or still make more use of them, like train a possessed human as a rogue to spy and kill, and also (like the campaign) leader of the local tribe of ogres or something. There's nothing about WoW over there... And in the NORTH? Wouldn't it be in the SOUTH? After all, in the NORTH, all the humans got dominated by the Forsaken/Scourge/Syndicate.

ADMIN

Fuss, also, i have asked and looked or a lot more that what you think. I have asked about 20 people. At least 15 o them want demons and forsaken.

About the forsaken/scourge similarity. the Forsaken are the sworn enemies of the Scourge. That's one of the primary reasons the Scourge is not in melee. they are very similar to the forsaken in actual gameplay. another is the scourge is way too imba.

Masiah: it has been stated in lore that Arthas is one of the most powerful beings on Azeroth now. probably closer to the old gods than anything else.

About the dwarfs/south. like i said, I DID give them attention. I explained their defeat... the scourge marched there as well. the plague struck. the remnants are the remnants of Lordaeron and the southern kingdoms. the dwarfs, on par with lore are fortifying.

let me know it theres anything left to explain

Some typos.. fixed them for you. (ok, MANY tipos. Oh well.)

And what if they are enemies? Ever heard of the Theramore and Proudmoore conflict? The fact that both Forsaken and Scourge histories were in the same Campaigns? Or do two races, one for each with very noted differences (possessed creatures, experimental creatures, banshees, curses, ranged for Forsaken, crypt fiends, heavy undead, Death Knights, and Frost Wyrms for Scourge... or just a little difference like the BL/Scourge mentioned before... that's have nothing with the absence of the Scourge. About it being "imba", don't you think goddamn Burning Legion was imba? But they were defeated. TWICE. And they're only that good in numbers... which would only happen at Northrend... which anyone would really gather a good force before going there, obviously. And again, it does not have to be playable! They're too important to be left out like you're doing! So (sorry for my rudeness, but...) stop denying it and trying to find any silly excuse to let Scourge out. You just can't. You can make it unplayable, "cause it would be too imba and Forsaken is a lot more important in the plot in the moment." But you just can't ignore and let Arthas froze in his goddamn throne while his armor rust and Frostmourne hungers! XD

Guys, I won a beta key for the team! W00t.



Never!

Anyways, here is my assignment.

Illidan is a pussy

And as the mighty Icecrown fell down to the earth, the Naga and the Blood Elves fought through the masses of Undead simply to get to their masters body. After a great battle with the Blood Elves and Nage finally breaking through, they managed to get Illidan. In a hasty retreat, they had many casualties on their side. The Undead pursued them and harrassed them all the way, and the way through the mountains was deadly and dangerous. Many soldiers got sick... However, finally they managed to reach the coast. Just before the Undead had burned their fleet, they managed to escape and they left Northrend behind. The Outlandish Fleet sailed towards the Eastern Kingdoms, landing somewhere near Dalaran. They wasted no time with fighting the Scourge nor the humans. Simple and quickly they avoided any enemies and hasted themselves to the portal the Blood Elves had usd to enter Outland. Illidan was showing little to none improvement in his state, and the wound Frostmourne had made was only getting worse with an infection. The Naga and Blood Elves were spotted by a compagny of the Scourge, and this ended in a battle being fought at the portal of Dalaran, with Lady Vashj and Prince Kael'thas destroying the Death Knight of the compagny. The travel through the portal went rather slow, because the portal could only handle two persons at once passing through. After a week, the complete army arrived through the portal. However, the portal had spewed out soldiers of the Syndicate all over the regional area where it stood, and it took a week again to regroup. Remnants of loyalists to Magtheridon had spotted the return of the forces of Illidan and feared to lose their grip on Outland once more. In the absence of the main army of Illidan and Illidan himself Akama was left alone to control Outland, but the wise seer could not stand against the remnants of the legions of Magtheridon, as the Draenei were almost extinct through constant warfare with the Horde and later Magtheridon and his demons. Several groups that still weren’t found were attacked by bloodlusty demons and brutally destroyed. Without knowing about this threat, they continued to move to the stronghold of Illidan. They found many obstacles in their way, but everyone simply thought it was coincidence. Even if there were survivors of Magtheridon’s army who weren’t enslaved, Orcs nor demons would simply attack them head-on, except of slowing them down. However, these were led by an Eredar, the former right-hand of Magtheridon.
Finally, Illidan’s condition started to become better. The gaping wound he had was cleaned and he was possible to speak again to his followers. The army continued in rejoice, not knowing what was about to come.
The Eredar Commander led his forces into making an ambush, forcing them with brute force to obey his will. Whilst the Syndicate was marching, the trap sprung and Demons and Fel Orcs attacked from all side. The Naga formed a shield around the Blood Elves, as they had the spellcasters, and Kael’thas with his spellcasters rained death and fire upon the enemy. The Spell Breakers defended them from any enemy magic and destroyed the Eredars by breaking their fel magics and ripping their source of power out them. The ambush ended with the attackers fleeing, whilst the Syndicate of Outland was victorious.
Aside from this, Illidan could finally walk again and was almost permanently healed from the almost-fatal blow Arthas had made.
There were many casualties amongst the army before they reached the fortress of Illidan, the Black Temple. Ambushes kept coming and kept hitting, whilst effective Fel Guards managed to get much victims with their suicidal charges. The Eredar Commander had meanwhile fled to the siege site of the Black Temple.
Finally, the army of Illidan arrived, only to see a big army laying siege at their fortress. Kael’thas and Lady Vashj readied their men and attacked! Many demons were caught by surprise and slaughtered, but then they regrouped. They striked back with great power and were driven to the ultimate by the Eredar commander.
Just as everything seemed lost, a great figure appeared in the sky, bearing tattoos and the Twin Blades of Azzinoth! It was Illidan himself, and he charged down, killing the Eredar who lead this army almost immediately. Suddenly, the Draenei attacked from their besieged position, and the demons and Fel Orcs were trapped. A massive slaughter occurred that day, and the final remains of the influence Magtheridon had over Outland disappeared for good. Illidan once more inherited his throne, with Akama, Lady Vashj and Kael aiding him.
But now… Illidan had to face even something bigger and stronger.

The wrath of Kil’jaeden.

The last lines are kinda optional, though. =)

Wow... really good. Though there is a problem.. if that is going to be the campaign, I ALREADY KNOW THE PLOT! D:

 

[Omniferous]

WoW's? What the heck? Where you saw WoW's lore? I just said about their differences and similarities... they are both similar enough to be one race and they are different enough to be two. For example, Scourge makes a lot more use out of Death Knights, Frost Wyrms and usually Necromancers and Crypt Fiends.

The Scourge are the only ones who ever had any Frost Wyrms and Crypt Fiends. Necromancers have obviously been part of the Forsaken, but Death Knights weren't part of the Forsaken at all until the Knights of the Ebon Blade returned to their respective factions. The Forsaken have traditionally made more use of banshees, but they have similar usage of constructs (abominations) and apothecaries (plague researchers).

And I also know that if I were Sylvanas, I would make use of the possessed creatures to create new and powerful things, perfect weapons against the Frozen Throne... or still make more use of them, like train a possessed human as a rogue to spy and kill, and also (like the campaign) leader of the local tribe of ogres or something. There's nothing about WoW over there...

Not sure how training possessed humans would be more effective than just using your own troops. The Forsaken seem to have an entire quarter of their capital dedicated to rogues anyway. On the note of the Ogres, Sylvanas lost control of the Crushridge Ogres when Mug'Thol, their chief, obtained the Crown of Will. This crown gave the Ogre Warlord the ability to resist the possession put in place by the Banshee Queen.

---

Just some food for thought. /lore

 

[Reaper51]

I think that the forsaken should have 3 things:
-skeletons
-zombies/abominations (things with meat still on)
-some possessed race's units

 

[The World Is Flat]

ADMIN

ahahah OMG. i would NEVER not include the scourge. as i said, not a melee race, but NEVER not playable. i never even suggested that. Yes i have heard of the thereamore/proudmoore conflict. lol. and yes the burning legion is powerful, but, again, with the nature of the invasion, they have been limited. (only in the early storyline. melee play is based off early demon camps.) the scourge is also active in the campagins. sorry if i missed anything.

Omniferous:

Just what i was thinking.

 

[kingbdogz]

1. as we all know, we are competeing projects (as you said yourself) so the validity of your statment is questionable.

I'm sorry you think that way. I've told you on MSN that I'm here to help your project, not compete with it. I thought we already discussed this...

2. The forsaken easily replace the scourge as the undead race in melee. Lore wise, THEY ARE A CORE RACE. Also lore wise, it would be rediculous to consider the undead a feasable race. Arthas is the most powerful being on azeroth. although fans have nothing to fear, he and the scourge will be featured EXTENSIVLY.

This is true, however I think some people will miss the various units and heroes from the Undead. I was merely making a suggestion. I believe taking out a core race from melee, regardless of their power, is a little strange since they are important in the Warcraft III story.

3. The burning legion fits in well lore-wise, does deserve to be a melee race, and should be. (its also epically cool now, and it seems in our alpha builds to have prospects. I could make some arguments against the races as the way they are in your lore aswell... adress your issues before you comment on ours without thinking in-depth about the lore, gameplay and community factor.

Actually, I'm open to criticism so please go ahead and tell me what is wrong with my lore. Nothing is wrong with criticism; all it does is help you improve. As for the Burning Legion, I actually don't mind the idea, but the lore might need to be reworked a bit. I like the gameplay decisions you have made (like the need of no farms, large but weak armies, etc).

4. Do you know that reason why blizzard removed them?

Mostly time constraints plus the fact that it was too hard to balance all of the five races.

5. Our mod is BASED on community feedback. The community WANTED the demons. and the forsaken. and outland.

I never said no demons, just the Burning Legion as a whole. My reasoning is because while yes they would be weakened by the protections around Azeroth, they would still have an immense amount of demons at their disposal which would outnumber most of Azeroth's races (except perhaps the Scourge, as you said they are very powerful now and numerous).

6. our mod will be finished only after we are happy with it. EXTREMLY extensive balancing. We are confident it is possible. and our mod will be the primere wc4 conversion. we are currently only in an alpha builds.

I'm fine with that, but like I said get prepared for countless hours of balancing and fine-tuning. A large project such as this is not easy to complete

BOTTOM LINE:
We are satisfied with our decisions. Our mod is based off community feedback, so all of our decisions are made BASED OFF OF WHAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS.

You can't speak for what the community wants, it is too large to make everyone happy.

(sorry if my respose was agressive. but your question did merit a provocative awnser.)

I was never aggressive nor provoking you, just simply expressing my opinion. Try to take criticism with care and next time you shouldn't become so defensive.

I do agree thou, players will be looking for something similar to warcraft 3 in a way, but remember warcraft 3 diverged quite alot from warcraft 2, to make it a much better game.

Yes that is true, however, a LOT of people hated the changes in Warcraft III. I myself didn't mind the changes that much though.

What I will say is this: Your comment is extremely unpleasant and unwelcome, it's like your actually trying to ruin people's opinion of our project.

Get a grip. The comment is not unpleasant at all. I am simply stating MY opinion, not ruining others. I've told TWIF that I would help him with the project, and I even went as far as to completely overhauling the first post on this thread (I fixed a lot of spelling errors and formatting errors).

the quote "even though it's supposed to be a proper sequel, it's instead alienating the Warcraft fans" is the evidence of this. We have never, ever stated that this is supposed to be a 'proper' sequel, we can't - were not Blizzard.

"Warcraft IV - The Legacy of the Damned is an ambitious conversion project to convert Starcraft 2 into the long anticipated Warcraft 4."

A quote from your main page. When you name it Warcraft 4, people are going to be expecting a proper sequel regardless if you are Blizzard or not. If you don't want people having such expectations, then rename the project.

Alienating Warcraft fans? I suggest you go and look up the word's meaning before using it in such a context, how can 'we' alienate them? It's up to them if they play it or not, some will like it and others won't

What I'm meaning to say is this:

Don't change the core game too much. There is a reason why so many people liked Warcraft. If you start to change the core too much people will become disinterested. There is proof with World of Warcraft. So many people hated the lore because it was adjusted for the gameplay changes.

The majority seem to belong to the former and all but you in the latter have given good, valid reasons for their disapproval.

How have I not provided valid reasons? I've said that changing the core too much can be bad, yet you continue to be a stubborn person who cannot take criticism. Criticism is GOOD for projects, it's what keeps them alive and is certainly what makes them better than others.

It doesn't help your case, being head of another project entitled "Warcraft IV"

Of course it doesn't, I'm simply expressing my opinion in hope that past your fury you can actually take some criticism and consider some changes accordingly. I'm here to help, not bash your project.

Seriously dude, we have absolutely no interest in arguing/competing against you and it's such a shame to see you believe otherwise.

You are the one who is arguing, not me. I do not want to compete with you as you should know, because I've already discussed such issues with TWIF. We've agreed to helping each other out when necessary.

Stick to your project, we'll stick to ours, you want to give us feedback?

Make it constructive next time.

And you tell me to look up the definition of words? Go loop up constructive criticism:

"A form of feedback where the reader offers suggestions on ways to improve the story" - Google Definitions.

Also i noticed your decision to change to sc2, as soon as you saw us appear. bad sportsmanship sir.

How is that bad sportsmanship? Really, you'd do the exact same thing in my position. From the point of view of a player, what is the point of playing a modification on Warcraft III that has mediocre graphics when you can play a much better looking one on Starcraft 2?

Your comment, whlie maybe intending to be constructive, was ill thought out and concived, and is easily precived as a troll of our deication and hard work.

I'm seriously starting to doubt you as a leader. As a team, you NEED to take constructive criticism, and in no way was my comment ill thought out. Projects need criticism, whether constructive or not, to improve on what they have. If you are planning to get into the gaming industry you need to learn this.

Starcraft II -has- better features and graphics.

Yes it does, but this modification is not keeping what Warcraft III had and applying those new graphics. That's my gripe. Not that it is bad, I would just prefer to have a game with the same races + new units and features with better graphics.

So what? This gives more variation to the player and it's fun to design races and make them yourself.

Have you ever heard of Command & Conquer 4? The fans hated it so much because it changed the gameplay a lot. Variation is not always good if it is in large doses.

People can only expect extreme success with many different features.

As I've said above, not always true.

I'm sorry that you saw my comment as bashing your project. I'll say this again; I'm here to help. I like helping other projects and this one has a lot of potential and even now work is being made (I congratulate you on that). I hope you don't take offense.

 

[kola]

ok, i know, i never posted anything here and i never talked to u about this map, but, i wanted to make a drawing of what i though for wc4. i read just abit of the Races and thats why the 2 faces. (new races, and the outland (where they are located) I still kept Azeroth but separeted to mean that outland is now on the map.

anyway, hope u like, if u want to use it u can, but if u doesnt want to or u doesnt need to, i will rly not be hurted lol, made for fun.

Warcraft 4

 

[Fussiler1]

Yes it does, but this modification is not keeping what Warcraft III had and applying those new graphics. That's my gripe. Not that it is bad, I would just prefer to have a game with the same races + new units and features with better graphics.

Question answered in the bolded line of text.

Have you ever heard of Command & Conquer 4? The fans hated it so much because it changed the gameplay a lot. Variation is not always good if it is in large doses.

Doesn't exception prove the rule?

As I've said above, not always true.

That's true, I forgot to mention that with great variation you can expect either extreme success or extreme failure.

I'm sorry that you saw my comment as bashing your project. I'll say this again; I'm here to help. I like helping other projects and this one has a lot of potential and even now work is being made (I congratulate you on that). I hope you don't take offense.

Forgiven and forgotten on my part. Not sure about the rest, though.

You can't speak for what the community wants, it is too large to make everyone happy.

I agree on this, though.

Everyone should realize that even though his wording was a bit rude, he didn't mean it like that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Wow... really good. Though there is a problem.. if that is going to be the campaign, I ALREADY KNOW THE PLOT! D:

Thanks man, but the last lines are just completely made up and optional, so. . Though it could be interesting that way. xD.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

@kingbdobz - Believe it or not, your first comment did sound rather rude, but I'm not one to hold grudges; that second gave me what I was asking for, reasons for your criticism.

I was actually extremely dissapointed when TWIF told me the merge wouldn't fall through, it seems like a no-brainer to me, both projects are low on members, both will take years to comeplete (assuming you do switch to sc2) - so exactly why didn't it happen?

With our combined teams, ideas and fans... They REALLY could out to be the 'image of Warcraft IV' the community wants.

??

I think both you two should reconsider, if there are problems we can work around them.

Either way, I agree - this has gone to far, let's all let it lie... Were just clogging up the thread with immaturity (myself included).

 

[kingbdogz]

@ Grey

The reason we didn't merge is because we both have very different story and lore ideas. I personally don't want to use his story because I've fell in love with my own. I can incorporate a lot of his story elements, but I don't think he wants much of my story and would prefer to use the majority of his...

It's not set in stone though, so we may reconsider after time.

 

[Fussiler1]

Either way, I agree - this has gone to far, let's all let it lie... Were just clogging up the thread with immaturity (myself included).

Great. Drama's fun when you read it, but not when you're involved in it.

@ Grey

The reason we didn't merge is because we both have very different story and lore ideas. I personally don't want to use his story because I've fell in love with my own. I can incorporate a lot of his story elements, but I don't think he wants much of my story and would prefer to use the majority of his...

It's not set in stone though, so we may reconsider after time.

What about a complete new story then? I could write one if you'd like, trying to satisfy both of you.

 

[kingbdogz]

That wouldn't satisfy me, that means my whole story gets scrapped.

{EDIT}
I made a quick placeholder logo for you guys to use. I know it's not the greatest but better than nothing until your artist finishes his new logo.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

WoW! Dude, that is amazing. Thankyou, I guess I had you figured out all wrong, will you accept my apology? I really do fail to see the bigger a lot of the time.

About the merge... TWIF we need to talk, whether we combine lore/choose one over the other or start anew, it's a decision that could only benefit the both of us and bring a Warcraft IV : Starcraft II conversion worthy of it's name...

New thread, new name, "50:50" leadership. If we can come up with a suitable lore compromise, will you 'both' at 'least' consider it?

I noticed you have merged before king, it's only benefited you in the long run, no?

We both have assets/skills and team members the other could use.

Heck, I'd quit this project right now, 'if' it increased the chances of the 'Ultimate Warcraft IV Mod' being created, I'm not in this for me.

----> Were both after the same thing (I think) <----

A Warcraft IV conversion 'for' the community... why have two when we could have: 'THE' Warcraft IV conversion.

Kingz, I will read your lore now.


EDIT: Wow, whether you two see it or not, our stories are more similar than you could imagine, especially the humans.

I don't mean anywhere near identical, but rather only some small modifications would be needed to either version, I could live with that. Can you two?

Simple compromise: Take the four 'basic' races as outlined in Kingz, add 'one' of ours Outland/TBL- This is a suggestion, so idk, but you get the idea.

-> Arthas would be pretty much rendered unplayable, at least for the most part in your story I presume? Which is what we wanted...

I'm not sure I understand what this 'convent of the blackened' is... bit confusing, could you enlighten me ?

 

[The World Is Flat]

Well thanks King. Not gonna do a huge post.

Grey. I'm not really interested in a merger. i personally don't like his story. King, you claim again, that we are alientaing fans by not having arthas melee. imo, its INSANE to consider it a playable race. among other resons. those inclue that there are too man fan-asked for races today. You guys obviously havent listend to the community before. on most all fourums i go, and everywhere i ask, people WANT the burning legion. obviously i am not covering everything, but i belive my point has already been made.
w/e

King, unless you WANT to join. or WANT to merger. i would suggest you do not post here. atleast for my sanity to be assured. i consider none of your arguments valid. so i am really not in the mood to argue.

Grey, the coveneant is some strange... wired thing involving the scarlet hand and some random spirit. (well not random, but it seems like that)

Anyway. keep goin' on what we got team!

Sorry if my response was agressive, again king, but as i said, it merited an agressive one, and seemed akin to slander.

now. i want to get to work on our project, and your are WASTING our dev time.
i am also apalled to see your switch to sc2 as soon as you saw us appear. but that the last of it.

now, lets discuss what to tackle next. (Taylor, got any wips? XD)

 

[Piwlady]

Now this is a good idea! I hope it turns out good. I'm eager to see terrain :3

 

[The World Is Flat]

It is going to be awesome (if teeuncreamers ever posts, rofl)

Fuss: write the 'what happened' outline for the humans. (the 8 months between the end of TFT and out game. theramorians only Pl0x.