Warcraft: A New Dawn

[The World Is Flat]

Indeed, durotar is probably in the only well situated and relativly calm place in the barrens, others would have to be nomadic like the tauren, which is why the tauren should be included.

But we need different theme ideas.

 

[Mtsensk]

You keep saying we need different themes, your main idea of this is . . .

Like a nomadic orc theme, etc. etc.?

 

[Turminator8]

I think Mtsensk's theme of a nomadic orc style fits into the lore without having to make drastic changes ourselves. (like we don't have to destroy Orgrimmar just to explain why the orcs are nomadic) In Warcraaft Lore, the Orc Empire of the Horde is still young and rapidly expanding across Kalimdor. It makes perfect sense that all races of the Horde are spreading out in nomadic tribes looking for ideal places to settle and form new cities or settlements.

Also I'm interested in the ogre lore.. I forgot if they are still in the Horde or not, but if they are I think we should use them because that's something you don't see in WoW. That'll help separate our game from WoW lore.

@gey I like that cell shading thing... people seem to really like it! Of course it needs to be perfected, but its a great start.

Also, one last thing: I think we should refrain from making drastic changes to a lot of the lore without really explaining it in our story. That is why people hated WoW lore was because important things were changed rather easily and it degraded the story.

Over all I'm so glad this project is still runnin' strong!

 

[PWH]

Hmm... From a lore perspective, nothing prevents the horde from being nomadic, or the Ogres from being with the horde. In fact, both things have many things pointing towards them;

Orcs: They wasn't nomadic in Draenor, but all of them were either trapped or renegade some time after the second war, and they're in a new world now, so traveling around would make perfect sense.

Trolls: (Darkspear trolls to be exact) These guys lived on an island before, and now they're in the barren wastelands of the... Barrens... Would make sense to travel around to try to find good spots.

Tauren: Need I to say anything? They've been nomadic for as long as anyone know.

Ogres: Now things get interesting... They were forced by the Orcs to fight during the first and second war, (Though they probably enjoyed smashing heads) and now they're cut off from their homeland, and their very social structure fits very well with being nomades; The strongest leads, and everyone who wish to lead proves himself by smashing the leader... Not the race which builds great towns, right?

Anyways, I've got a few suggestions for the tech-trees
Kodo-tower:
Well... Kinda like the Mammoth thingies of Lord of the Rings during the siege of Minas Tirith... I've just always liked the thought of Kodos wandering around with towers on their backs And I'm tired of Demolishers, they've been used up
I can imagine that this would be a T2/T2.5 siege unit.

Loa Priestess:
I can imagine that this would be a "combined" Druid of the Claw and Druid of the Talon, being able to heal, and transform into various forms.
I'd say this would be a T1.5/T2 unit, serving as a support unit in its basic form, but then its transforms could be higher in the tiers.

Darkspear Raptor:
Raptors! These must be in the game, cause they're just awesome I also like the idea of having some animal unit in-game, and the Horde seems like the oblivious choice for that, with their shamans.
Raptors, imagine their role? No, it's not long-ranged support, but it's a good guess! They're hit'n'run units And I'd say they should have some kind of "pack" passive, which increases their attack speed by 2% per raptor nearby, to a maximum of 20%, just cause that'd be awesome, and they're well... Living in packs.

And also some for humans
Steamwarriors:
Kinda like Thors, these are heavy assault pieces of gnomish engineering, which exceeds in taking a lot of punishment, while being more than capable of dishing some out themselves.
And this'd probably be T2.5, as far as I could imagine

Walls and gates!
Do I need to say anything? A thing I enjoy while being Terran is the opportunity to wall off, giving that "gate", I like having in games.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

@Mtsenk - http://www.openoffice.org/ Decent, 100% free and MS/Word/Excel/Powerpoint compatible software, brilliant substitute I've used myself in the past and I vouch for it, worth downloading, it'll help you a lot

@Turminator - Yeah, well nothings perfect but once we get some texture work set up and underway I'll relay anything I learn to the artists, that's where any further enhancements need to be done.

Also agree with you on the WoW lore/too much change aspect, we want to avoid alienating fans, this needs to feel like a sequel not a whole new game, same heroes, same enemies, same goal (cough - game - cough).

 

[Mtsensk]

@PWH I thought t=of the idea of a kodo-thrower type thing myself, I've always wanted a mobile form of tower, and this basically fills this cause, with a bunker style.

My techtree idea would be able to fit all of these units in there, I have a shaman lodge, I also have a Beastiary (possible name change) which could hold the raptors, and could build kodos which with a research from the foundry allows it to have constructions mounted onto it's back. Ogres, I'm thinking of giving them their own building, the OGRE MOUND. I'm hoping to work on the powerpoint later with grey's link if I get some more free time.

 

[The World Is Flat]

We've had the concept for the kodo tower for ages, its basically a burrow on a kodo (you don;t have to add units to it)... its a light ranged unit, but it has a few addons to make the unit what it needs to be, but these are expensive... the siege one... a buff one, and maybe another, maybe not.

 

[PWH]

Also a little other suggestion for it, make an upgrade to make it an actual moving bunker, very slowmoving, but still a bunker

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Individual customization of certain units is a BAD IDEA, if your going to do something like that, make it so orcs don't get any towers at all but must make use of kodo mounted howdahs (upgradeable to different types, e.g. headhunter manned, catapult mount).

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

It worked for Dawn of War, fairly well too

 

[PWH]

I wasn't thinking of this as "indicidual customization", just like Zerglings and Banelings, you can upgrade the first to the latter if you need it, tho it should probably take more time than with Banelings

But yeah, I played Dawn of War too, and I loved that thing about the... Gah, can't remember what they're called... Tyranids!

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Very well, just guys, please, please keep in mind.
This is a sequel to war3 (in all but an official respect) not Dawn of War (or any other RTS) so believe it or not there are patterns and boundaries we have to stick to.

As long as you guys realise this...

 

[PWH]

But let's look at druid in Wc3, they were able to shift between their forms, which could kinda be considered as "individual customization", so I can't see why Kodos shouldn't be able to do something like it

 

[Grey Nightmare]

That's fine.
What I advise against is units with multiple 'upgradeable options', so you can make rifleman have incendiary rounds, piercing rounds or other silly 'individual customizations'.

Sorry if I misjudged the concept.

 

[PWH]

Oh, I wasn't thinking like that, this was just for Kodos, just cause Kodos are awesome But I agree, things like that wouldn't fit into Warcraft.

 

[Mtsensk]

Ok, so I got to downloading that link from Grey, it was easy, all I had to do was open my powerpoint from school via my flash drive and it transfered it over into the new system. I'll be editing up the tree to switch in ogre's which will be a much newer taste than tauren.

I have liked the Kodo tower comments and I will put them into use in my tech-tree. I will take out the watch tower and siege towers I had implemented into my tech-tree to add upgrades which can be made to kodo's. These upgrades in my opinion should follow a form of upgrade system like the zergling to baneling, and the corruptor to brood lord, where you upgrade the individual unit.

I'll begin fleshing out the buildings in their own slides, along with units if I get to them later tonight. So my idea is to, like in Sc2, make tier 1 units more important, to make them core units that are essential to good armies, which if you do not believe me is very much the case. An example is protoss, zealots are powerful tanks for their cost at 150 points of tankage for 100 minerals. Their charge upgrade makes them good for taking on the first wave of a battle, and then they have quite decent dps, fully upgraded weapons makes them have a dps of I believe 18.33, which is very powerful, I will check again latter on their dps, but I know for a fact that their dps is better than that of both the sentry and stalker as well as a few other units of the protoss race.

I have also made the choice to make the T4 buildings not build troops, but to open up the right tree requirements for these powerful T4 units withing T1 and T2 buildings.

So, for now, I bid you a-doo (wow I think I failed on that) and go to relax myself before I work on my tech-tree further.

{EDIT}
I got to furnace (weapon/armor upgrade structure) and I couldn't think of names for the tech. I don't want to do simple 'Steel Melee Weapons', 'Steel Ranged Weapons', etc. So if you guys here could help with some names. I'm going to bed for the night now, maybe I'll get some ideas while I rest.

Besides that, I have a good portion of info done. Got the whole set-up of the tree itself, like diagram and what building leads to what, etc. I made that during the school week actually, but I have all but the furnace info done for Tier I, then I can move on to Tier II.

Grey, thanks for giving me that link, I LOVE this powerpoint program. It works very well.

I've also gotten myself a nice new idea for units. i'm going to work with the kodos, probably make 3 different 'tower types' My idea for them would be as follows.

Huntsman Hideout - An attachment on the kodo which holds enough room for 4 tribesman, of which all can attack at the same time. My idea with these towers is to make them like bunkers, but for certain units each one will pertain.

Catapult Mount - An attachment which contains 1 catapult on the kodo's back.

Then one involving goblins, have to love those dastardly fella's

Rocket Tower - an attachment on the kodo with 2 goblin rockets, manned by peons.


I've also thought of the idea of a HoundMaster, this unit would be a form of unit to replace the raider from the beastiary, this unit would have a carrier type of attack. The Houndmaster would have mutliple hounds and they attack independently of eachother, just like interceptors on carriers. I've also come up with a name for that 'Orc Druid' that was suggested, how does Druid of the Fang sound to you guys? Well, time for some sleep!

 

[Grey Nightmare]

No problem about the software, glad you like it.
Just remember to 'save as' ms PowerPoint 1993-2003!!

I like the Kodo ideas, but would avoid the bunker thing, just Make it have 3 upgrades (needing diff req's) some arrow/piercing one, some siege one and some special one, maybe with a burning effect or magical feedback (like arcane).

Druid sounds too nelfish!

Hound master me likey
Could even make it a troll raptor master instead!

 

[PWH]

I agree, druids aren't for Orcs, maybe tauren...

But Troll Raptor Master... I don't really know tbh... I like the idea of having raptors act like zerglings, not like interceptors from carriers :/

 

[Walle]

Hound master could be renamed, since orcs are known for using worgs or wolves.
Hounds are more human:ish, hounds are loyal and is often kept by humans guarding a place or sniffing out drugs (?)
something more wolfish than hounds

 

[The World Is Flat]

Well ofc it would be friggin wolves

 

[Mtsensk]

I only used the name hound master because it was what I saw that would fit. How about Worg Wrangler? I didn't infer to be using human-like hounds for these orcs. By the name of the Orc druids, I have to say that if needed I can fix that up, I could keep the same idea I had for it, change the name, but if you also look up druid, you'll see that they were celtic warriors, strong frontlinesman. So keeping druids with the Orcs for this one seems like a good possibility imo. The Raptors are going to be a powerful T3 Harass unit, just to let yuou know PWH.

Grey, why must it be saved as that exact file type?

Can't work on the tree right now, have some work to do, I'll work on it later, also if anyone can answer my original question of helpful names for upgrades at the furnace.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Wolves, yes.
Raptors like zerglings? Uh.. maybe not.
Zerglings are controlled via the swarm lore stuff.
Raptors aren't so unless you had raptor riders...

I'm setting up a forum on moddb (linked to the mod), further discussion like this should be done there and UPDATES/comment replies only here please.

 

[Mtsensk]

I'm on again for the time being, i'm wondering if I should make the raptors riderless or riden. It would be a possibility to make trolls mount themselves on them like archers with hippogryphs, but I'm already using this idea with wyverns in tree. With the ability for either tribesman or Mystic to mount themselves on wyverns. Also, still need to think of some good names for weapon/armor upgrades, any thoughts?

 

[Grey Nightmare]

To be blunt, riderless raptors rape the law imo.
I wouldn't have two types of mountable units for wyverns, just have one (if any).
No thoughts yet.
@Saving that filetype, that allows us MS OFFICE users to open it
OO's default is ODF/OSF?, which windows ms doesn't support (?)

EDIT: If you could make a moddb account, with a name akin to your hw one and use this forum for all this spammy discussion, it would help an awful lot. I have to agree when people moan about the amount of unesscary crap in this thread, let's make it major updates/feedback reply only please!

 

[Mtsensk]

Ok, so update. I figured out some names for upgrades and have weapon upgrades for units weilding weapons, so this includes melee and ranged.

{EDIT}
Ok, sorry Grey but this is another 'Spammish' post. I don't know how I feel about making a Moddb account. I'm already the member of 7+ forums excluding this one. I'll see what I can do.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Yeah, well... aren't we all and sadly that's a problem we've had in the past but the fact remains.

I'm going to start buying plane tickets and smashing heads together if we continue to discuss general gameplay design in this thread.

I'm open to other ideas, but instant messengers and this thread = no, no, no!

 

[Mtsensk]

Arghh I just spent 10 mintutes looking through my mail to find it and it was marked under spam.

 

[Mtsensk]

Umm, yeah I joined the Moddb forum and my internet, for the past few months, won't open certain browser addresses no matterwhat I use. So the fact is, it closes out moddb whenever I try to open one of the forum sections (i.e. Community Contributions, General Discussion, etc.)

 

[Grey Nightmare]

T_T
What browser do you use?

 

[Mtsensk]

Internet Explorer, but I've tried using others and the same problem occurs.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Umm, yeah I joined the Moddb forum and my internet, for the past few months, won't open certain browser addresses no matterwhat I use. So the fact is, it closes out moddb whenever I try to open one of the forum sections (i.e. Community Contributions, General Discussion, etc.)

How old are you? If your like 17 or under, have your parents put anything on your comp to block sites or something?

In unrelated news:
I started writing again after a long period of sitting on my ass doing nothing, I decided to do something. Just general MIDI atm but here's an early draft of some sort of war/battle theme.

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=03men2

Asomath still active?

 

[The World Is Flat]

No Idea about Asomath.

I think the drums cycle to quickly, otherwise its very warcrafty.

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Not heard from Asomath I'm afraid, I must say, of all your pieces this is my least favourite. Reminds me of runescape *shivers*.
It's good, I just personally don't think it fits. Again though, just me, I can be wrong/one opinion isn't the world's.

 

[Mtsensk]

I turn 14 in 32 days, NEW Year's Eve B-day. No, my parents haven't put blocks in. I would know how to remove those blocks and would have already.

 

[Walle]

Wherewolf, the theme is good but the drums are really annoying

 

[PWH]

I agree, those drums are a little annoying...

But raptors as T3... I don't really see a raptor itself fit in T3, so it'd probably be a ridden raptor then

And I feel bad not being able to do anything useable, so aren't there any kind of lore to be written? >.<

 

[The World Is Flat]

I may just have to put my foot down at raptors, sorry.

I can stand raptor jesus, but not raptor-riding-orcs. sorry.


Write about the ogres joining in with the horde again.

 

[Deolrin]

What's wrong with Darkspear Raptor Riders though? There's plenty of raptors in Durotar.

 

[tagg1080]

http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/pastebin.php?id=03men2

It burns the ears...

Slow the drum beat, make it more tribal, do that by having bigger drums go slow and then little drums following in patterns. Key is the following.

And please do something other than random scale progressions,

 

[Mtsensk]

It wouldn't be orc riding raptors, where did you get that idea Twif? It would be trolls!

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

Slow the drum beat, make it more tribal, do that by having bigger drums go slow and then little drums following in patterns.

I was aiming for Human this time, thus tribal doesn't exactly cut it

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Trolls on raptors would be a-ok in my book, but riderless or orc ridden... pffft. No thanks.

 

[Mtsensk]

So should I include raptors as upgrades involving beast type units or weaponed units. I divided my researches for damage/armor into beast-type units and weaponed, should I cross the upgrades maybe, like gryphon riders in wc3 where they use dwarf armor and knight/footman weapon etc.? Maybe they use orc weapon tech, blah, blah, etc. b/c they're mounted and weild a weapon, but they use the raptors natural armor as armor upgrades. I felt like keeping a beast type feel to it. Also, if you're looking for inspiration for Raptors, if any of you play HOMM5 the Dungeon's raptors are cool. I'll give links to the pics.

http://www.heroesofmightandmagic.com/heroes5/dungeon_creatures.shtml
Look at Dark Rider and Grim Rider, I would post the pictures here, if I had more time, going to bed and I'm excited because of blizzards offer they created to buy the WoW series titles, WoW, and first 2 expansions for a total of $20 before shipping and taxes, which is an amazing offer! So going to get some great rest, and think up some plans for my tech-tree, and on another note, think of ideas for my tree. Christmas decorations going up soon!!

 

[mouseman89]

I was aiming for Human this time, thus tribal doesn't exactly cut it

it sounds good just a bit modern, maybe slow the drums slightly and make it more medieval, also the end is a bit sudden maybe make the start a little slow and speed up and the end slow down a bit/or just make them kind of blend more.

 

[WherewolfTherewolf]

also the end is a bit sudden

It's a wip, I haven't finished writing it

 

[The World Is Flat]

Nonetheless WT, It cycles too fast, it seems too techno.

@Raptors

Because the fokin' raptors werent in wc3, they came out of wow, and we are trying to avoid most connection.

Thats my primary reason, my other reason is i cant place wherethey would go in the tree.

we already have wolves.

 

[Asomath]

It proabably sounds more Techno than it actually is in Midi format.

Oh and yes, Im still alive.

~Asomath

 

[Walle]

I'll show a screen of a wc3 model made for sc2 soon, it will be up in 1-48 hours

 

[Grey Nightmare]

Great to hear it Asomath and guys your in for a treat from, Nara

 

[Grey Nightmare]

^Bump

Where does your allegiance lie? With Wc:lotd? With the Horde? With the Alliance? Let us know, spread the word people!