Void Ray Rush - Total Destruction in 6min - How To

[RiotZ]

Gosh... I don't get this argument. If a person claims that "Void Rays out maneuver fucking Vikings", he is either a troll or a player with INSANELY bad micro.

RiotZ, have you ever tried the "hit and run" tactics with attack-move instead of 'S' or 'H'? And, by the way, what is your main race? Because if your main race is Terran and you have trouble with Vikings against Void Rays, then, no offense, you are just bad.

1. I'm Terran.
2. I play Masters level opponents.
3. Voids and Vikings are similar in DPS when contrasting cost, I agree DSG, but Void Rays have much more health.
4. Void Rays do not deccelerate in combat to fire, they can fire while moving.
5. Vikings deccelerate to fire, they cannot move and fire, only fly away, stop, shoot then fly away again.

This tactic is ineffective since I last tried it in a ladder match which was roughly 2-3 days ago on HOTS.

On HOTS only, where Voids have 6 range instead of 5, making straight Vikings to counter Voids is not cost effective and met with equal calibre macro will result in your demise.

 

[Reaper51]

1. I'm Terran.
2. I play Masters level opponents.
3. Voids and Vikings are similar in DPS when contrasting cost, I agree DSG, but Void Rays have much more health.
4. Void Rays do not deccelerate in combat to fire, they can fire while moving.
5. Vikings deccelerate to fire, they cannot move and fire, only fly away, stop, shoot then fly away again.

This tactic is ineffective since I last tried it in a ladder match which was roughly 2-3 days ago on HOTS.

On HOTS only, where Voids have 6 range instead of 5, making straight Vikings to counter Voids is not cost effective and met with equal calibre macro will result in your demise.

Yes this is quite right.
I play protoss and whenever terran tries to kite with vikings i just move voids in the direction of vikings after a few kites voids are close enough lock on even if he still kites.

You have to remember that once the Void Ray's beam is activated within its 6 range, there's an additional leeway of 2 if the target moves away.

Voids are not bad at all. If you pair them up with the mothership core they can snipe important structures and mass recall when out of position.

 

[RiotZ]

Yes I this is quite right.
I play protoss and whenever terran tries to kite with vikings i just move voids in the direction of vikigns after a few kites voids are close enough lock on even if he still kites.

You have to remember that once the Void Ray's beam is activated within its 6 range, there's an additional leeway of 2 if the target moves away.

So you have 1 extra range on a unit that can fire while moving.

 

[Dr Super Good]

but Void Rays have much more health

They have similar health to cost ratio as Vikings as I also showed.

5. Vikings deccelerate to fire, they cannot move and fire, only fly away, stop, shoot then fly away again.

They start to decelerate but do not reach 0 speed to fire. A technique called strafing allows you to maintain some movement and shoot at the same time. You also have 2 seconds of movement to make before the weapon cools down.

On HOTS only, where Voids have 6 range instead of 5, making straight Vikings to counter Voids is not cost effective and met with equal calibre macro will result in your demise.

Except that only charged and upgraded Void Rays deal more DPS than Vikings so unless you allow your opponent to charge them your Vikings will always win since both armies have equal health. If the Void Rays win then the Terran player clearly built too few Vikings.

I agree that kiting Void Rays is no longer as effective due to the +1 range but you can still land 1-2 shots before the Void Rays even start to fire.

Void Rays are very expensive units. For their cost you can expect them to deal very good damage. Vikings, however, will deal more damage to Void Rays than Void Rays to Vikings and win in an open fight as long as approximately equal costs and reasonable army sizes are involved. It is still possible to strafe Void Rays indefinitely using Vikings but considerably harder (like strafing Marines with a Banshee).

 

[May90]

1. ]This tactic is ineffective since I last tried it in a ladder match which was roughly 2-3 days ago on HOTS.

Can you provide the replay of this match please? I would really like to see how it works. Maybe you are right, since I have not built many Voids against Terran in HotS, I may be mistaken...
Though last DSG's post pretty much covers everything.

 

[RiotZ]

Can you provide the replay of this match please? I would really like to see how it works. Maybe you are right, since I have not built many Voids against Terran in HotS, I may be mistaken...
Though last DSG's post pretty much covers everything.

Yeah when I get home I'll find a replay of it, if I can't I'll run one through unit tester.

 

[Reaper51]

Vikings cost more than half as much as voids btw.
Viking: 150/75/2
Void Ray: 250/150/4

Hydras are zerg's best option vs void rays.
Corrupters melt too fast to charged voids and infestors have been nerfed to oblivion.

 

[May90]

I'll run one through unit tester.

I've just created a small map where I control 10 Vikings against 10 Void Rays flying with attack move by me. Well, I must say, it became much harder to kite them than it was before HotS, but still it's possible to win this almost without losses (my best attempt was 7 surviving Vikings, but then, again, my micro is far from perfect; I believe it's possible to save all 10 Vikings).

2 things to note. While you are kiting, you should attack only when your Vikings are on their full speed and the distance between Vikings and Void Rays barely lets you see the Void Rays - this way Void Rays won't be able to start shooting before your Vikings are fully accelerated again. If your Vikings are not at full speed or the distance is relatively small, then some Voids will start shooting and, probably, will kill some Vikings with single charges.

This kiting is not as easy as, say, Marauder vs Zealot, but definitely WAY easier than Banshee vs Marines.

 

[RiotZ]

I've just created a small map where I control 10 Vikings against 10 Void Rays flying with attack move by me. Well, I must say, it became much harder to kite them than it was before HotS, but still it's possible to win this almost without losses (my best attempt was 7 surviving Vikings, but then, again, my micro is far from perfect; I believe it's possible to save all 10 Vikings).

2 things to note. While you are kiting, you should attack only when your Vikings are on their full speed and the distance between Vikings and Void Rays barely lets you see the Void Rays - this way Void Rays won't be able to start shooting before your Vikings are fully accelerated again. If your Vikings are not at full speed or the distance is relatively small, then some Voids will start shooting and, probably, will kill some Vikings with single charges.

This kiting is not as easy as, say, Marauder vs Zealot, but definitely WAY easier than Banshee vs Marines.

Banshee vs Marine is easy, Marauder vs Zeal is tougher imo.

I'll have to try this tactic.

 

[RiotZ]

Me and Reaper51 just ran a test, unfortunately we couldn't save it, dunno why, ask Blizz.

Anyway, Vikings are not even remotely cost effective, with the best possible micro in the game, you cannot defeat Voids with Vikings, it's all in the trade off. 10 Vikings vs 10 Voids, is a hands-down victory for the Void Rays.

I found that the only time that Vikings won with or without micro was when they had a 2:1 ratio on Void Rays, which is ridiculous, consider Vikings hard counter Void Rays... Or at least are supposed to.

2:1 ratio however is somewhat cost effective, it still is more expensive to counter Voids with Vikings than it is to counter Vikings with Voids.

Conclusion, Void Rays are more cost effective, macro effective, and micro effective versus Vikings than vice versa.

 

[Dr Super Good]

10 Vikings vs 10 Voids, is a hands-down victory for the Void Rays.

5 Void Rays Vs 10 Void Rays is also a hands down victory to the 10 Void Rays. A Viking is half the cost of a Void Ray so you will always see twice as many.

I found that the only time that Vikings won with or without micro was when they had a 2:1 ratio on Void Rays, which is ridiculous, consider Vikings hard counter Void Rays... Or at least are supposed to.

That is because a Void Ray costs twice as much as a Viking. Yes 2 Vikings cost 50 more Minerals than 1 Void Ray but those Minerals can be ignored since you will be Gas bound anyway and all this means is the Protoss player could make a few more Zealots or Photon Cannons (which you have no problem handling anyway as terran).

2:1 ratio however is somewhat cost effective, it still is more expensive to counter Voids with Vikings than it is to counter Vikings with Voids.

Not by much. As you are Gas bound those extra Minerals mean nothing.

Conclusion, Void Rays are more cost effective, macro effective, and micro effective versus Vikings than vice versa.

Yet you state otherwise in your argument when you agree that a 2:1 ratio wins hands down (and costs the same, which you fail to see for some reason).

Cost Effective is anything that kills more worth of units than it loses. As long as only 1 Viking survives in a 2:1 ratio, Vikings are a counter unit.

The entire problem with Vikings against Void Rays is they both counter each other mechanically (extra damage to Armored). As I mentioned earlier, Void Rays only out DPS per cost Vikings when both upgraded and charged, otherwise Vikings are more cost effective against them. If they are not upgraded, they are always weaker than Vikings. If they are not charged, they are always weaker than Vikings.

In small numbers and upgraded the Void Rays will win as they can charge off Vikings before they kill them (the unit has to live 3 seconds to charge, changing targets resets this timer, you need to gain 2 charges to become charged) and so enter a state where they out damage them. In large numbers it is highly unlikely that Void Rays will be able to charge off Vikings forcing them to remain uncharged and outputting considerably less damage than the Vikings.

One fact I mentioned before is Vikings are faster than Void Rays. This may not be too effective to strafe Void Rays with due to the 1 range difference, but it is effective to stop Void Rays retreating as you can keep hitting them indefinitely. If your opponent goes full Void Rays and you counter with full Vikings, there is a high chance that you may have more than a 2:1 ratio by the time he attacks. As this will easily kill his Void Rays, he loses the game as he is forced to fight since retreating will cause him to lose his Void Rays anyway. If he keeps Void Ray production up, keep Vikings up and start pushing into him. If he changes army composition, consider landing Vikings in the case of reduced air as they will still add extra damage which your opponent lost.

 

[Reaper51]

All of this also depends on the micro skill level of each player.
Even in the 2 vikings for 1 void ray situation, the winner is usually the person who can micro their air units better than the other.

Another thing to take into account is critical mass. 2 void rays will almost always loose to 4 vikings.
Low numbers of void rays are nothing but paperweight early game until you hit their critical mass of around 6 or so.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Low numbers of void rays are nothing but paperweight early game until you hit their critical mass of around 6 or so.

Except you can then hit an anti-critical mass where you have so many Void Rays that they kill their targets (due to focus firing to some degree) before they can charge up. Charging Void Rays are nothing but expensive paper-weight that out put a fraction of the damage of Vikings.

 

[May90]

Me and Reaper51 just ran a test, unfortunately we couldn't save it, dunno why, ask Blizz.

Anyway, Vikings are not even remotely cost effective, with the best possible micro in the game, you cannot defeat Voids with Vikings, it's all in the trade off. 10 Vikings vs 10 Voids, is a hands-down victory for the Void Rays...

This is weird. My experience says otherwise. Yes, I played against computer with simple attack-move, but I cannot think of anything the Void Rays player can do to beat hit-and-running Vikings. I tried it again a few minutes ago and 8 Vikings out of 10 survived.
On the first attempt though I was completely destroyed. You really need some practice to get the feel of this tactics, and then you can hit and run almost infinitely.

Another thing to take into account is critical mass. 2 void rays will almost always loose to 4 vikings.
Low numbers of void rays are nothing but paperweight early game until you hit their critical mass of around 6 or so.

Here I totally agree with you. As with any DPS unit, the more you have of them, the more effective each one of them becomes. 1 Void Ray will always die to 1 Viking if the Viking player has a good micro, but 50 Void Rays will probably demolish 50 Vikings, unless the Viking player is demi-god with 1000 APM able to control each Viking individually and the map is big enough to allow a long kiting.

 

[RiotZ]

5 Void Rays Vs 10 Void Rays is also a hands down victory to the 10 Void Rays. A Viking is half the cost of a Void Ray so you will always see twice as many.


That is because a Void Ray costs twice as much as a Viking. Yes 2 Vikings cost 50 more Minerals than 1 Void Ray but those Minerals can be ignored since you will be Gas bound anyway and all this means is the Protoss player could make a few more Zealots or Photon Cannons (which you have no problem handling anyway as terran).


Not by much. As you are Gas bound those extra Minerals mean nothing.


Yet you state otherwise in your argument when you agree that a 2:1 ratio wins hands down (and costs the same, which you fail to see for some reason).

Cost Effective is anything that kills more worth of units than it loses. As long as only 1 Viking survives in a 2:1 ratio, Vikings are a counter unit.

The entire problem with Vikings against Void Rays is they both counter each other mechanically (extra damage to Armored). As I mentioned earlier, Void Rays only out DPS per cost Vikings when both upgraded and charged, otherwise Vikings are more cost effective against them. If they are not upgraded, they are always weaker than Vikings. If they are not charged, they are always weaker than Vikings.

In small numbers and upgraded the Void Rays will win as they can charge off Vikings before they kill them (the unit has to live 3 seconds to charge, changing targets resets this timer, you need to gain 2 charges to become charged) and so enter a state where they out damage them. In large numbers it is highly unlikely that Void Rays will be able to charge off Vikings forcing them to remain uncharged and outputting considerably less damage than the Vikings.

One fact I mentioned before is Vikings are faster than Void Rays. This may not be too effective to strafe Void Rays with due to the 1 range difference, but it is effective to stop Void Rays retreating as you can keep hitting them indefinitely. If your opponent goes full Void Rays and you counter with full Vikings, there is a high chance that you may have more than a 2:1 ratio by the time he attacks. As this will easily kill his Void Rays, he loses the game as he is forced to fight since retreating will cause him to lose his Void Rays anyway. If he keeps Void Ray production up, keep Vikings up and start pushing into him. If he changes army composition, consider landing Vikings in the case of reduced air as they will still add extra damage which your opponent lost.

Vikings cost about 10% more minerals in a 2:1 situation. Gas is more important I know, but usually hard counters cost less of either resource to counter. So many units come to mind, Siege Tanks, Colossi, Missile Turrets, Hellions, High Templar...

Also to May and your point, Vikings are slightly faster (2.25 vs 2.75), but their excel speed (it takes about 3 seconds for full speed flight) makes them fall flat in a micro fight with Voids.

I believe Reaper was moving his Voids as well, instead of a-moving them, this way his Voids never lost their range advantage, since they can shoot and move.

Now. Vikings cost more than Voids to get a 2:1, in the 20 vs 10 example, 500 minerals more, which, imo is huge, too big to make sense to counter Voids with Vikings. Vikings have to be mass produced much more in order to counter a critical mass of Voids, ex. 1-6 starports with reactors, versus 1-4 stargates with boost. Voids are also much easier to micro against Vikings, clump and engage via move.

Advantage Void Ray.

 

[Dr Super Good]

500 minerals more, which, imo is huge, too big to make sense to counter Voids with Vikings.

Except what are you going to do with those Minerals? Marines? You certainly are not making any other units as you are already Gas bound and cannot afford the Gas. An expansion might be a good idea or more SCVs but considering there is probably some other factor stopping you doing that...

This translates into 5 more Zealots for the Protoss player. Will those 5 Zealots be able to change anything?

People are forgetting that Vikings stop Void Rays from retreating as they cannot fire backwards and are slower than Vikings (so the Vikings can keep hitting them as long as they run). This forces Void Rays to kill off all Vikings before they can move in a direction other than into the Vikings.

So what do you do? Send your Marines straight into them and watch all that glass fall.

Let us revisit that 10 Void Ray against 10 Viking situation and add in some Marines.

10 Void Rays -> 2500 Minerals and 1500 Gas
10 Vikings -> 1500 Minerals and 750 Gas
20 Marines (stimmed) 1000 Minerals

This combination has the same Mineral cost but half the Gas cost. How well does it do?

If it fails, you must remember you are running an army composition of half the Gas of the Void Rays. This is a huge saving so more Marines can be expected. Or maybe some other support units could be thrown in like a Raven? If the Void Rays ever cluster, a well timed Seeker Missile or Two might be devastating and the Ravens will serve as your detector when attacking (not wasted). Ghost EMPs could also be useful as they can deal huge shield damage to many Void Rays at the start of a battle.

The reason Vikings are not "super effective" is because both units technically counter each other. The only reason Vikings win is because their dedicated role gives them more DPS per cost than charging and upgraded Void Rays have.

 

[RiotZ]

Except what are you going to do with those Minerals? Marines? You certainly are not making any other units as you are already Gas bound and cannot afford the Gas. An expansion might be a good idea or more SCVs but considering there is probably some other factor stopping you doing that...

This translates into 5 more Zealots for the Protoss player. Will those 5 Zealots be able to change anything?

People are forgetting that Vikings stop Void Rays from retreating as they cannot fire backwards and are slower than Vikings (so the Vikings can keep hitting them as long as they run). This forces Void Rays to kill off all Vikings before they can move in a direction other than into the Vikings.

So what do you do? Send your Marines straight into them and watch all that glass fall.

Let us revisit that 10 Void Ray against 10 Viking situation and add in some Marines.

10 Void Rays -> 2500 Minerals and 1500 Gas
10 Vikings -> 1500 Minerals and 750 Gas
20 Marines (stimmed) 1000 Minerals

This combination has the same Mineral cost but half the Gas cost. How well does it do?

If it fails, you must remember you are running an army composition of half the Gas of the Void Rays. This is a huge saving so more Marines can be expected. Or maybe some other support units could be thrown in like a Raven? If the Void Rays ever cluster, a well timed Seeker Missile or Two might be devastating and the Ravens will serve as your detector when attacking (not wasted). Ghost EMPs could also be useful as they can deal huge shield damage to many Void Rays at the start of a battle.

The reason Vikings are not "super effective" is because both units technically counter each other. The only reason Vikings win is because their dedicated role gives them more DPS per cost than charging and upgraded Void Rays have.

I think 25 Marines with stim and shield without Viking support would down 10 Voids easily, now that my friend is a cost effective counter.

2250/0, not counting upgrade costs since they apply to all engagements.

Also those 500 minerals, could afford me a macro CC and 50 more afford more an OC, 550 total cost.

Or they could afford me 5 Hellbats, or 10 Marines... Infinite number of useful units that can be effective harass or core.

In the end I'm never going to make Vikings en masse or without Marines to fight Void Rays.

 

[Dr Super Good]

In the end I'm never going to make Vikings en masse or without Marines to fight Void Rays.

Except Marines have a deployment disadvantage as they are ground units. He could split his Void Rays into 2 groups, lure your marines to defend one base while Voids start hammering the other. Good intelligence could tell you to split the Marines (like he did with his Void Rays) but if you fail to see it coming you could lose.

He can also retreat his Void Rays over cliffs leaving your Marines to shake their fists angrily at them.

Vikings on the other hand can force Void Rays to stay and fight, allowing your Marines time to cut off their retreat or do any number of tactical deployments.

In the end you want to kill the Void Rays, not just deter them from attacking.

I also think Marines suffer against those new T3 air artillery units. Since he is mass producing Void Rays anyway, nothing stops him from producing a few of those to deal with the Marines.

 

[RiotZ]

Except Marines have a deployment disadvantage as they are ground units. He could split his Void Rays into 2 groups, lure your marines to defend one base while Voids start hammering the other. Good intelligence could tell you to split the Marines (like he did with his Void Rays) but if you fail to see it coming you could lose.

He can also retreat his Void Rays over cliffs leaving your Marines to shake their fists angrily at them.

Vikings on the other hand can force Void Rays to stay and fight, allowing your Marines time to cut off their retreat or do any number of tactical deployments.

In the end you want to kill the Void Rays, not just deter them from attacking.

I also think Marines suffer against those new T3 air artillery units. Since he is mass producing Void Rays anyway, nothing stops him from producing a few of those to deal with the Marines.

If I know someone is making Voids or Mutalisks there's one simple answer, lots of missile turrets, cements your base, and allows you to engage. If he splits his Voids and destroys my base with a backdoor, the only reason he split his Voids in the first place is because he couldn't win a direct engagement, so I will just base trade him and force him to fight me or lose without any fight at all.

Also Tempests and Oracles are decent versus Marines, but Marines still counter them ultra cost effectively. Marines eat air units for breakfast.