Void Ray Rush - Total Destruction in 6min - How To

[redbayron2006]

In this starcraft 2 replay you can see one of the best sc2 void ray rush probably the best unit in starcraft.
Dont expect mass void ray a couple of them will do the trick when they charge.
In this void ray push you can see also the build order the player has followed to accomplish a total victory against 4 enemies.
It does not take more than 6-7 minutes and there is no counter.
A total victory in a very short time, a magnificent protoss strategy.
Enjoy below:

 

[Dr Super Good]

Void rays are weak and such rushes will 99% of the time end in a loss. Marines, Stalkers and Hydralisks all pawn void rays like they are made of butter. At higher tech levels you can use vikings as terran as well (you wikk likk 50% of voids before they enter range). Zerg can use queen to fend off lone rays that try and rush (before hydralisks).

The conclusion is this must have been a noob level game. The fact it seems to be 2v2v2v2 (or 4v4?) proves this since pro level is only really 1v1.

 

[Blackthorne]

No just no... if you are bronze noob go do it and will never get past even gold. I am not sure of this is team game FFA or 1v1 but if it's 6v6 where the worst players are there, it could work. Once someone scouts your cheese you will see how pathetic it is, but idk in 6v6 all may happen ..

Plus in 1v1 when they do fast VR to me and I marine viking, gg, all cause of scout... sorry you do not discover America. Next.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Void rays used to do this back in early days of SC2 (especially beta) but now they are too fragile, slow and weak.

They only deal extra damage when fully charged which requires focusing on a tough target for considerable time (as changing targets refreshes the charge period). They also only deal large damage to armored units making them pathetic against marines and hydralisks. Factor in the huge cost and you are asking for problems.

Against terrans you are doomed. Marines hard counter them, especially when stimmed and all terrans will spam these in great numbers. If they scout you then you are even more doomed as they will reduce maurder production for more mariens and early vikings. If that was not enough, the standard anti-protoss EMP ghosts that appear later will hammer your clusterd Void Rays' shielding making them even easier prey.

Against zerg you are doomed as the defensive queen is capable of killing lone void rays trying to charge up and rush. If you try to mass then they will respond with mass hydralisks (maybe mutalisks?) which will mince your void rays effortlessly. When infestors come you are truely done for as they will spore down your rays for more damage and prevent them from running (so they all die).

Protoss players will just spam out stalkers. Blink will allow them to full DPS your rays before they can charge. They are also weak enough that if you do mass rays they will struggle to charge before killing the stalkers. Sentries will help limit your DPS. Finally if the game lasts long they will pull into HTs which can force your rays to move with psyonic storm and thus lose all charge.

Void Rays serve specific purposes.
A few rays can quickly destroy an expansion before the owner has a chance to respond. They are also great artillery units when you have trash to take the damage as you can pre-charge them (such as on the enemie's expansion or even your own nexus when defending) and have them deal high DPS from the back of your army by the time the enemies get there to defend, forcing enemies to retreat or face heavy losses. Void Rays are devestating if left alive in combat for long periods of time as their DPS is very high so throwing a few with an army can be highly effective (watch out for Terran vikings).

Void Rays are not meant to soak up damage, they are one of the most expensive durability to cost you can get. With out enough trash durable units to soak up damage they will easilly fall victim to counters. They are also very prone to clustering so in large numbers you can expect Terrans to toss EMP on them (devistiating sheld damage0 if you let them cluster.

They also deal very low damage to start with. Unless they can charge, they will act like expensive paper weights. Especially in large numbers against marines and hydralisks, you will find them failing to charge. Again, this emphisises that they are best used in small numbers, either pre-charging before combat or by hitting durable enemy units.

 

[May90]

Well, in 4v4 this could actually work. I find that in 4v4 pretty much every mass units strategy works, as long as your allies are not newbies and your opponents are not 5 star pros.
In 1v1 you would get destroyed quickly though... Mass marines / hydras / stalkers - and that's it. ;-)

 

[LordDz]

What most protoss players do in pub 3v3, 4v4s:
Cannon rush an opponents base, if he takes it out.. He builds more cannons there and a nexus.
He usually dies when the other team attack your base and you can't defend because his cannons are on the other side of the map.

Or

Skillrays.

Yes, I have rage against protoss teammates.

 

[RiotZ]

7 Minutes into the game, nobody has a single unit on their team. Wood league?

 

[IRcollision]

I checked some news from top players because I haven't played HotS in the past 2 months, it seems VR is a bit op unit atm but I also read a future patch gonna fix them, the widow mines too.

 

[Dr Super Good]

the widow mines too.

Void Rays are not over powered in the way the topic creator described. If you mass void rays you can kiss the match goodbye as someone will just mass the counter and you get to watch them all break.

Void rays are very powerful if used as a support unit in moderation. Their high DPS against armored units can destroy key strategic units of the opponent while the opponent is focusing on cheaper units like zealots, stalkers etc. This means that with the micro skills of a pro (not just A move) they could be a bit over powered.

 

[May90]

This means that with the micro skills of a pro (not just A move) they could be a bit over powered.

Having played Uberena like million times, I found that the best way to use them is to just double-click them all and then spam the sequence attack-shift-attack-shift. But they really need many units to protect them: they are too fragile on their own and die fast to any anti-air.

But, again, in 4v4 mass voids are very powerful.

 

[Dr Super Good]

But, again, in 4v4 mass voids are very powerful.

If a Terran player spams out Vikings then you can kiss all those void rays good bye seeing how Vikings can kite them indefinitely since their speed was lowered.

Although I have yet to try it out, but I have a feeling Tempests will also be surprisingly effective against void rays seeing how they cluster together often, that is if they can hit air.

 

[May90]

If a Terran player spams out Vikings then you can kiss all those void rays good bye seeing how Vikings can kite them indefinitely since their speed was lowered.

In theory it is true. But in practice you never know if a player with, say, 5 void rays is going to mass them. If a team sees mass void rays and decides to build vikings then, it is usually too late as the void rays player just attacks the vikings player and doesn't let him do anything as void rays destroy buildings surprisingly fast.

 

[RiotZ]

If a Terran player spams out Vikings then you can kiss all those void rays good bye seeing how Vikings can kite them indefinitely since their speed was lowered.

Although I have yet to try it out, but I have a feeling Tempests will also be surprisingly effective against void rays seeing how they cluster together often, that is if they can hit air.

I believe they can hit air, though I don't believe they have AOE, and even if they did, any pro player would not allow his Voids to go down to AOE, furthermore in agreeance with you, no pro would ever make only one unit in his composition.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The problem is that Vikings are a primary Terran Anti-Air unit and as such even if the opponent does not mass Void Rays, you can expect Terran players to get a few. A Viking is a fraction of the cost of a Void Ray and totally destroys them.

Zerg have the most problem against Void Rays as they do not really have strong Anti-Air outside of Corrupters against Massive air units (which is not helpful here). Mutalisks are designed for harassing and so come at a premium and if a player is spamming rays, nothing stops them from spamming a few Phoenixes, a Mutalisk hard-counter unit. This only leaves Hydralisks and Infestors which leaves the player weak against CC units like Colossus. That said, a spore on a group of rays leaves them helpless against Hydralisks and Hydralisks have too little health to allow them to charge up (meaning poor DPS for their cost). The best part of spore is that you get to watch their rays be helplessly routed in place making them easy victims to the superior damage of Hydralisks.

Terran players must never forget Ghosts and their insane EMP. A few of those shot off kills about 50% of the durability of Void Rays leaving them even easier targets for Vikings. Not that a Terran player even needs Vikings since stimmed marines will easily dispatch Void Rays as well.

 

[May90]

The problem is that Vikings are a primary Terran Anti-Air unit and as such even if the opponent does not mass Void Rays, you can expect Terran players to get a few. A Viking is a fraction of the cost of a Void Ray and totally destroys them.

I agree on that, but even 15 vikings won't help that much against, say, 30 voids defended by a strong ground army (or by opponent's vikings). If the voids player flies far away from his allies' army (for example, destroys enemy's bases while other team members are on their bases), he will fail against decent opponents. But massed voids added to a massive 3 players ground army are very hard to stand against. As you mentioned, ghosts, infestors and, I believe, high templars are essential here, as well as anti-air units with splash damage (thors and archons).

 

[Dr Super Good]

but even 15 vikings won't help that much against, say, 30 voids defended by a strong ground army

Obviously seeing how 15 Vikings are like 1/4 of the cost of 30 void rays let alone the land army. That said, 15 Vikings will be whipping out 2 Void Rays a barrage and the land army will be helpless to stop them doing that as Vikings are faster than most land units.

But massed voids added to a massive 3 players ground army are very hard to stand against.

Which is the intention as that is not massing void rays but instead using them as intended. It is the same as saying infesters are over powered because they can destroy low health units with them when they are in an army.

Thors do not counter void rays too well. Yes they have splash but the DPS they deal is still very low. Marines on the other hand totally destroy void rays.

 

[May90]

It all really depends on a unit composition. What really makes massed void rays good in 4v4 is lack of proper scouting - even some of very decent players think that scouting in 4v4 is not that important since, anyway, "Opponents will have everything". If massed voids are scouted in time, it is not very hard to make a counter to them, I totally agree on that.

Thors do not counter void rays too well. Yes they have splash but the DPS they deal is still very low.

Thors start showing themselves when you have at least 5-6 of them. 1 thor doesn't do that much against heavy air, but 5 thors slaughter stacked void rays very fast.

 

[Rui]

ZzZz why do you guys keep discussing this. Void Ray rushes work in Bronze, Silver and maybe Gold leagues because other players are probably also straight teching for carriers, ravens, and whatnot. In Diamond and Master I can assure you're committing suicide unless you're rushing Zerg or most players are Zerg in team games, and even then, you can't 100% sure destroy at least 1 base.

 

[LordDz]

Counter to strategy: Scouting.
/Thread?

 

[RiotZ]

ZzZz why do you guys keep discussing this. Void Ray rushes work in Bronze, Silver and maybe Gold leagues because other players are probably also straight teching for carriers, ravens, and whatnot. In Diamond and Master I can assure you're committing suicide unless you're rushing Zerg or most players are Zerg in team games, and even then, you can't 100% sure destroy at least 1 base.

I'm in Diamond, and I have to say a lot of people open with Voids off of 1 Stargate, even 2, so as not to over reach, in all mus, but mostly PvZ, because right now Voids are probably the most broken unit in the game, and it's coupled with the fact that Oracles annihilate light units.

Voids > Armored
Oracles > Light
Oracles + Voids > Most AA

It is a pretty soft, easily scouted rush, which could be held, just as long as you don't underestimate the power of Voids, I've seen 8 voids kill 12 Hydras with micro lol...

Also a good thing to note is that Protoss's only t1 AA is armored, this makes Voids a lot more feasible in PvP.

I'm not talking about this noob strategy btw, 1SG and 2SG FE rather.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I've seen 8 voids kill 12 Hydras

Hydralisk -> 100M 50G
Void Ray -> 250M 150G

Seeing how you are always gas bound, that means that for every Void Ray a Protoss player makes, a Zerg player makes 3 Hydralisks. So that 8 Void Rays is fighting 24 Hydralisks, twice the number you foolishly quoted and gets totally obliterated.

Also a good thing to note is that Protoss's only t1 AA is armored, this makes Voids a lot more feasible in PvP.

Except it also is anti-armored, which as Void Rays are armored it can be used to counter them. Again...
Stalker -> 125M 50G
Void Ray -> 250M 150G

You are looking at stalkers being at least a 2:1 ratio, if not 3:1 as gas is the limiting resource.

24 blinking Stalkers against 8 Void Rays does not look too good for the Void Rays.

 

[May90]

Hydralisk -> 100M 50G
Void Ray -> 250M 150G

Seeing how you are always gas bound, that means that for every Void Ray a Protoss player makes, a Zerg player makes 3 Hydralisks. So that 8 Void Rays is fighting 24 Hydralisks, twice the number you foolishly quoted and gets totally obliterated.

Yes, but you forgot the immobility of Hydralisks. Even if you have 24 Hydralisks, keeping them together does not seem to be a good idea since Void Rays would simply go to one of undefended bases and obliterate it. Against Void Rays you pretty much have to spread your Hydralisks, and they may become an easy prey for a well-microed Void Rays.

Personally I think Void Rays are extremely good against Zerg due to lack of fast-mobile counters to it. Not so much against Protoss due to blink Stalkers and definitely not against Terran due to Vikings.

 

[RiotZ]

Hydralisk -> 100M 50G
Void Ray -> 250M 150G

Seeing how you are always gas bound, that means that for every Void Ray a Protoss player makes, a Zerg player makes 3 Hydralisks. So that 8 Void Rays is fighting 24 Hydralisks, twice the number you foolishly quoted and gets totally obliterated.


Except it also is anti-armored, which as Void Rays are armored it can be used to counter them. Again...
Stalker -> 125M 50G
Void Ray -> 250M 150G

You are looking at stalkers being at least a 2:1 ratio, if not 3:1 as gas is the limiting resource.

24 blinking Stalkers against 8 Void Rays does not look too good for the Void Rays.

Hydralisks are designed to hard counter Voids, unconditionally, if you had to make 3:1 ratios it wouldn't be a hard counter. Two Hydras should down a Void with ease, and when Hydras are en masse they scale ridiculously well because of their attack rates. You also forget to ask me how many casualties during the excursion, which if I recall correctly, was 2 Voids and 12 Hydras. Now, onto Stalkers, they are supposed to cost effectively counter armored air, which they do, except against Void Rays, where it is actually more feasible to counter Stalkers with Voids than any other unit.

Voids are ridiculously overpowered at the moment.

And to the above comment, you must not play a lot of HoTS, because Voids counter Stalkers and Vikings with absurd cost effectiveness. The only unit that cheaply counters Voids is the Marine. And Mutalisks are a faster, better counter to Voids than Hydralisks, an equally imbalanced unit at the moment.

Now someone is going to argue that Vikings out range Voids, and with micro are superior, to which I say you are wrong, Voids have a range of 6, Vikings have a range of 9, Voids have higher acceleration than Vikings while they both have the same top speed, Voids can fire while moving, and Vikings cannot. When you stop your Vikings for the barely-a-second that you do the Voids catch up, and do some damage while still gaining ground, all while the Viking tries to accelerate ahead of the Voids, which it cannot, so the Void Rays eventually force the Vikings into a stand your ground situation, in which Void Rays will always win versus armored.

Finally, Voids win when out numbered 2:1 versus Stalkers. They win when slightly (1.5x or so) out numbered by Hydras... And they win when out numbered by Vikings almost 3:1.

 

[Dr Super Good]

which if I recall correctly, was 2 Voids and 12 Hydras.

Yeh but it is like sending 4 Hydralisks against 20 marines, it will not end well as you are horribly out classed as far as fire power goes.

if you had to make 3:1 ratios it wouldn't be a hard counter.

It is when not all of that 3 die. A unit that costs over twice as much resource can be expected to kill at least 1. This is not Pokémon where super effective means One Hit Kills.

Having 50% more Hydralisks than Void Rays is obviously going to fail, the army value is over twice as large as yours. I repeated your experiment and got similar results.
12 Hydras vs 8 Rays = 2 Rays dead
16 Hydras vs 8 Rays = 5 Rays dead
20 Hydras vs 8 Rays = 12 Hydras dead

20 Hydralisks is still cheaper than 8 Rays and you get to keep nearly half of them!

Yes, but you forgot the immobility of Hydralisks.

Void Ray -> 2.25 MS
Hydralisk -> 2.25 MS (2.8125 with upgrade) OFF CREEP, faster on creep

Please do not talk nonsense as Hydralisks out speed void rays. Void rays cannot retreat from Hydralisks so they are forced into combat.

you must not play a lot of HoTS, because Voids counter Stalkers and Vikings with absurd cost effectiveness.

16 Vikings totally melt 8 void rays with only 5 losses. Their cost classes are approximately equal and as little as 13 or even 12 Vikings could suffice. Upgrade those Vikings and they do even better as they gain a lot of damage with upgrades. Throw in a typical Terran land army to distract those Rays off your Vikings (since you out range them) and you will find them all blown up in no time.

For the heck of it I even got 12 Phoenixes to take on 8 Void Rays and the Phoenixes won with 4 remaining (both armies about equal cost).

Void rays are slow, expensive and easily killed. Yes they dish out pain but they better at that cost.

 

[Rui]

I do not have HotS and I do not plan to get it, but if you have a guest key that you can give me I'd appreciate (does Blizzard still hand out those?)

For the heck of it I even got 12 Phoenixes to take on 8 Void Rays and the Phoenixes won with 4 remaining (both armies about equal cost).

Depends how the voids are attacking. If each of them focuses 1 phoenix they can charge up, but yeah, I understand no one's gonna bother to do that and/or it takes time.

Vikings can destroy void rays with endless kiting suffering little to no losses, but even so, marines hard-counter them. One or two air turrets in a right spot also do the trick, and if the Protoss player is going enough void rays for a turret with SCVs repairing to be unable to handle them, then he probably is unable to put up with whatever the Terran cooked up meanwhile anyway.

 

[RiotZ]

Yeh but it is like sending 4 Hydralisks against 20 marines, it will not end well as you are horribly out classed as far as fire power goes.


It is when not all of that 3 die. A unit that costs over twice as much resource can be expected to kill at least 1. This is not Pokémon where super effective means One Hit Kills.

Having 50% more Hydralisks than Void Rays is obviously going to fail, the army value is over twice as large as yours. I repeated your experiment and got similar results.
12 Hydras vs 8 Rays = 2 Rays dead
16 Hydras vs 8 Rays = 5 Rays dead
20 Hydras vs 8 Rays = 12 Hydras dead

20 Hydralisks is still cheaper than 8 Rays and you get to keep nearly half of them!


Void Ray -> 2.25 MS
Hydralisk -> 2.25 MS (2.8125 with upgrade) OFF CREEP, faster on creep

Please do not talk nonsense as Hydralisks out speed void rays. Void rays cannot retreat from Hydralisks so they are forced into combat.


16 Vikings totally melt 8 void rays with only 5 losses. Their cost classes are approximately equal and as little as 13 or even 12 Vikings could suffice. Upgrade those Vikings and they do even better as they gain a lot of damage with upgrades. Throw in a typical Terran land army to distract those Rays off your Vikings (since you out range them) and you will find them all blown up in no time.

For the heck of it I even got 12 Phoenixes to take on 8 Void Rays and the Phoenixes won with 4 remaining (both armies about equal cost).

Void rays are slow, expensive and easily killed. Yes they dish out pain but they better at that cost.

That's because Phoenixes are light, though. At least I think they are.

 

[Dr Super Good]

That's because Phoenixes are light, though. At least I think they are.

They are not armored, light has nothing to do with it.

Fact remains that Void Rays are powerful but fragile. Massing only rays can easily be countered.

 

[May90]

Void Ray -> 2.25 MS
Hydralisk -> 2.25 MS (2.8125 with upgrade) OFF CREEP, faster on creep

Please do not talk nonsense as Hydralisks out speed void rays. Void rays cannot retreat from Hydralisks so they are forced into combat.

Hopefully you are joking if you are saying that equal speeds for air and ground unit = equal mobility...

 

[Dr Super Good]

Hopefully you are joking if you are saying that equal speeds for air and ground unit = equal mobility...

No as most competitive maps do not have good cliff surfaces to allow air units to show off their all terrain capabilities. Even if they do, the rays will still get partly destroy when trying to retreat and since they have no flank firing capability you lose 0 Hydralisks while the enemy loses tons of Void Rays.

The key why Mutalisks are so effective at raiding is they have vast speed. Rays do not have this advantage and will suffer heavy losses trying to run from a losing confrontation with land units even if the land units cannot follow for long.

Throw in a single Infester and sit back while laughing as the Void Rays are locked in place (unable to run) while your Hydralisks eat them alive. Air may have the all terrain advantage, but immobilized air does not. Sporing down air is best while they are retreating as it often takes the player by surprise allowing you cheap shots without them firing back.

If you think Void Rays are strong now, they are nothing compared to what they used to be. Before they could quite literally destroy everything as they had insane damage and speed.

 

[RiotZ]

No as most competitive maps do not have good cliff surfaces to allow air units to show off their all terrain capabilities. Even if they do, the rays will still get partly destroy when trying to retreat and since they have no flank firing capability you lose 0 Hydralisks while the enemy loses tons of Void Rays.

The key why Mutalisks are so effective at raiding is they have vast speed. Rays do not have this advantage and will suffer heavy losses trying to run from a losing confrontation with land units even if the land units cannot follow for long.

Throw in a single Infester and sit back while laughing as the Void Rays are locked in place (unable to run) while your Hydralisks eat them alive. Air may have the all terrain advantage, but immobilized air does not. Sporing down air is best while they are retreating as it often takes the player by surprise allowing you cheap shots without them firing back.

If you think Void Rays are strong now, they are nothing compared to what they used to be. Before they could quite literally destroy everything as they had insane damage and speed.

There are lots of gaps and cliffs to be abused by air, especially when you're using non-clumping units such as voids, versus clumping units such as hydras and stalkers. A lot of times my friend masses voids and just bypasses the main confrontation and snipes their bases, while I hold our 2 opponents off with tanks, we are both Diamond as well.

 

[Dr Super Good]

A lot of times my friend masses voids and just bypasses the main confrontation and snipes their bases, while I hold our 2 opponents off with tanks, we are both Diamond as well.

But again, that is Void Rays being used more as intended. 1/2 of the army (combined forces) is not Void Rays. Using them to snipe bases is risky but if you pull it off then it is worth it.

Problems start when they predict you doing that and so place units like Infestors ready to trap your Void Rays. If they both attack your stationary Void Ray army then not much of it will remain giving them the upper hand.

 

[May90]

To me Oracle seems to be a better harassing unit than Void Ray, by the way. Insane attack rate lets him snipe up to 5 workers before an opponent even manages to react. I found it the hard way: in PvP I was harassed by Oracle the first time and didn't even bother to pull away my probes to find out that, by the time my Stalkers came there, Oracle had... 15 kills!

 

[RiotZ]

Oracles are horrible against everything but light, and voids aren't for harass, they're for anti-armor, and they are ridiculously good at it. One void can kill a thor... With Guardian Shield 1 void can kill 3 vikings.

 

[Dr Super Good]

One void can kill a thor

Thors are not particularly Anti-Aircraft units. Unless the air unit is light (which Void Rays are not) they do pathetic anti-air damage. That said, you could just throw out 7 odd marines instead and watch the Void Ray melt.

With Guardian Shield 1 void can kill 3 vikings.

No as the Vikings run away until the shield expires before turning around to blast the Void Ray to pieces. Vikings are not only faster than Void Rays but also out range them.

 

[RiotZ]

Thors are not particularly Anti-Aircraft units. Unless the air unit is light (which Void Rays are not) they do pathetic anti-air damage. That said, you could just throw out 7 odd marines instead and watch the Void Ray melt.


No as the Vikings run away until the shield expires before turning around to blast the Void Ray to pieces. Vikings are not only faster than Void Rays but also out range them.

Vikings are not faster than Voids because of their ridiculously slow acceleration that and they cannot shoot while moving, Voids have the mobility advantage, damage advantage, and counter advantage, even outside of a guardian shield, 1 Void downs 2 Vikings easily, 2 Vikings cost 300/150, more than a single Void Ray.

3 Vikings cost 450/225, I do not recommend countering Voids with Vikings if you want to get out of Gold league lol. And yeah Marines are super cost effective versus Voids, but Hydras and Vikings are not.

There's no way to get around it, Voids are getting nerfed at some point.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Vikings are not faster than Voids because of their ridiculously slow acceleration that and they cannot shoot while moving, Voids have the mobility advantage, damage advantage, and counter advantage, even outside of a guardian shield, 1 Void downs 2 Vikings easily, 2 Vikings cost 300/150, more than a single Void Ray.

Just try it, you will see that the Vikings can kill the void ray without the void ray even being able to hit them once. And that is with the Vikings being used directly. Now if you have them supporting a MM ball then the void rays will be busy shooting infantry while you obliterate them with your Vikings and marines.

Let us not forget that ghost throwing an EMP onto them so they start out at about half health (no shield).

Hydralisks are not "super" cost effective against Void Rays but they still are more cost effective than Void Rays are against Hydralisks and that is all that maters. Vikings are super effective against Void Rays and Void Rays are super effective against Vikings so they are not really a direct cost effective counter but they are a supporting counter (a few Vikings can start to one shot down Void Rays when focusing them.

Specifically Vikings prevent Void Rays from running away as they take casualties. If you have a group of Vikings chasing Void Rays that are fleeing from Marines (which are a counter) then they will eventually have to turn around and shoot back at your Vikings or face heavy losses. However by the time they do turn around to shoot your stimmed Marines will be hot on their tails and make short work of them.

Void Rays were nerfed, they used to be absolutely insane. When they dealt out 40 DPS against armored units and moved at 3-4 there were problems.

 

[RiotZ]

Just try it, you will see that the Vikings can kill the void ray without the void ray even being able to hit them once. And that is with the Vikings being used directly. Now if you have them supporting a MM ball then the void rays will be busy shooting infantry while you obliterate them with your Vikings and marines.

Let us not forget that ghost throwing an EMP onto them so they start out at about half health (no shield).

Hydralisks are not "super" cost effective against Void Rays but they still are more cost effective than Void Rays are against Hydralisks and that is all that maters. Vikings are super effective against Void Rays and Void Rays are super effective against Vikings so they are not really a direct cost effective counter but they are a supporting counter (a few Vikings can start to one shot down Void Rays when focusing them.

Specifically Vikings prevent Void Rays from running away as they take casualties. If you have a group of Vikings chasing Void Rays that are fleeing from Marines (which are a counter) then they will eventually have to turn around and shoot back at your Vikings or face heavy losses. However by the time they do turn around to shoot your stimmed Marines will be hot on their tails and make short work of them.

Void Rays were nerfed, they used to be absolutely insane. When they dealt out 40 DPS against armored units and moved at 3-4 there were problems.

I have tried it haha, you can't out micro voids, they can shoot and move, vikings can't, they don't have to deccelerate, vikings do, vikings lose flat to voids.

 

[Dr Super Good]

Except you strafe them, like what you can do with banshees.

 

[May90]

Just try it, you will see that the Vikings can kill the void ray without the void ray even being able to hit them once.

This is a common mistake. Just watch one of the monobattles where Day9 got Vikings and one of his opponents had Void Rays. There was something like 30 Void Rays against 40 Vikings and about half of Vikings died. Even Sean's micro doesn't allow Vikings to not get hit. Yes, it was before HotS where Void Rays speed was decreased, but still...

 

[Dr Super Good]

Except if he killed 30 Void Rays with 40 Vikings with only half being killed he was doing very well and shows that they work perfectly as a counter. 30 Void Rays cost as much gas as 60 Vikings.

With groups it is impossible to micro well enough that none of them get hit. But a single one...

It is the same way how a single banshee can kill marines.

 

[May90]

Well, I agree on that, groups make it a little different.

As for banshee, by the way, I believe it is possible with only a very good Internet connection. If you have a slightest lag (as I have), it is literally impossible to kite marines well. For example, I can kite them in Starcraft Master in Single Player mode just well without banshee being hit at all, but in Multiplayer mode where I have about 60 ms lag I am lucky if I can finish it without the banshee being killed.
It is even worse with medivac+tank against stalkers. I cannot do this micro in Multiplayer at all. The last Starcraft Master challenge was completed on the 3rd try in Single Player mode, but in Multiplayer (to get the achievement) I struggled for 2 hours and on the successful try both tank and medivac were below 10% HP in the end.
With vikings the situation is different as you have much more time to react. Single viking can kite a void ray forever.

 

[Dr Super Good]

In reality the tank micro is pointless as all human players would order the stalkers to focus fire down the medevac after a single execution of it.

 

[May90]

In reality the tank micro is pointless as all human players would order the stalkers to focus fire down the medevac after a single execution of it.

Yes, but then the tank gets free hits. It can be very well seen on the Micro Tournament map: either you focus the medivac, tanks or just attack-move - you generally lose if your opponent has a good medivac-tank micro. The idea there is to focus one or two stalkers (depending on how much HP the tanks have at the moment) on medivac while other stalkers attack-move; also it is essential not to forget to pull low-HP stalkers back.

I've never had to deal with it on melee maps though... I encountered void prism + immortal once, and that's it.

 

[RiotZ]

Except if he killed 30 Void Rays with 40 Vikings with only half being killed he was doing very well and shows that they work perfectly as a counter. 30 Void Rays cost as much gas as 60 Vikings.

With groups it is impossible to micro well enough that none of them get hit. But a single one...

It is the same way how a single banshee can kill marines.

Yeah except 7/10 times the marine will still get at least one shot off.

The difference is those 7/10 times will kill a Viking because Voids do like 3x normal damage vs armored.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The difference is those 7/10 times will kill a Viking because Voids do like 3x normal damage vs armored.

That is not a good April fools joke... In fact it only makes you look rather silly.

Void rays deal...
Phase 1/2 -> 6 (10 to armored), an increase of 1.66 times.
Phase 3 -> 8 (16 to armored), an increase of 2 times.

With 3 to air weapons...
Phase 1/2 -> 9 (13 to armored), an increase of 1.44 times.
Phase 3 -> 11 (22 to armored), an increase of 2 times.

They hit every 0.6 seconds odd.

So who ever you heard that "3x normal damage vs armored" from had no idea what he was saying.

Key thing to note with Void Rays is the phase 3 damage increase against armored is 2 per weapon level, greater than the average armor increase per level of armor. Maxing air weapons causes Void Rays to deal 1.375 times the base damage to armored units which is a considerable increase.

 

[RiotZ]

Voids destroy Vikings. Simple as that. If you want to test it, add me on HOTS on NA, or I'll come to your server. RiotZ #240

 

[May90]

Voids destroy Vikings. Simple as that.

The only way it works like this is if your opponent microes as here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7zwXcYO_pg
If vikings just attack-move then, yes, they get demolished. If they hit and run, then the Protoss player is doomed...

Just play the Uberena map and, once you and one of your opponents reach about 2000 income, buy the whole pack of Void Rays and go against the same whole pack of Vikings - and will see how you 'destroy' them. And it is not even HotS where Void Rays speed was nerfed...

 

[RiotZ]

You guys don't understand, Void Rays out maneuver fucking Vikings, hands down. Stutter step doesn't do shit, unless your opponent is a retard and doesn't chase. The only way Vikings lend good support is behind Marines as DSG alluded to, and I'm not talking about WoL, this video is of HOTS, as far as I know, and WOL should not even come up in this convo.

Also, I read DSG say Thors are ineffectual as AA, but I really have to disagree, since Thors have what, 10 range versus air? Which is why 2-3 Thors versus pretty much any short range air or slow air is awesome. Namely Voids and Broods, the problem is Voids hardcounter Thors so badly that 1 Thor would probably lose to 1 Void, which is why Thors shouldn't be the core of a diverse compo, but are still a great support unit because of their ranged AA, and their absurd ground dps versus targets like Ultralisks and Tanks.

 

[Dr Super Good]

A Void Ray is Armored Mechanical
A Viking is Armored Mechanical
Void Rays deal bonus damage to Armored units
Vikings deal bonus damage to Armored units (people seem to be forgetting this)

A Void Ray costs 250 Minerals and 150 Gas and deals...
(un-upgraded)
Charging: 6 (10 to armored) every 0.6 seconds
Charged: 8 (16 to armored) every 0.6 seconds
(upgraded)
Charging: 9 (13 to armored) every 0.6 seconds
Charged: 11 (22 to armored) every 0.6 seconds

A Viking costs 150 Minerals and 75 Gas and deals...
(un-upgraded)
10 (14 to armored) twice every 2 seconds
(upgraded)
13 (17 to armored) twice every 2 seconds

The values are now converted to DPS against each other (using Armored damage value).

Void Ray...
(un-upgraded)
Charging: 16.66 D/S
Charged: 26.66 D/S
(upgraded)
Charging: 21.66 D/S
Charged: 36.66 D/S

Viking...
(un-upgraded)
14 D/S
(upgraded)
17 D/S

As building both of them is Gas limited (the extra Minerals spent on Vikings does not really mater) you can work out a DPS per Gas spent, a far better comparison of power.

Void Ray...
(un-upgraded)
Charging: 0.1111 D/SG
Charged: 0.1777 D/SG
(upgraded)
Charging: 0.1444 D/SG
Charged: 0.2444 D/SG

Viking...
(un-upgraded)
0.1866 D/SG
(upgraded)
0.2266 D/SG

So what do these results show? Building un-upgraded Vikings gives you more Damage per Second per unit of Gas you spend against Void Rays than un-upgraded Void Rays gives against Vikings. Upgrades change that, with upgraded Vikings still dealing more damage per second per gas than upgraded charging Void Rays but charged Void Rays turn it around with them dealing slightly more.

However this completely ignored armor. Both Void Rays and Vikings can get 3 armor. You must also remember that getting 3 armor as Protoss is highly costly as you need both the Air Upgrade and Shield Upgrade while Terrans just need 3 Air Upgrade.

Void Ray...
Charging: 0.1111 D/SG
Charged: 0.2111 D/SG

Viking...
0.1866 D/SG

The fact to note is that Air Weapon Upgrade makes Void Rays more damage efficient against Vikings but only when they are charged. Vikings will always be more damage efficient than charging Void Rays. Seeing how it is unlikely that a Void Ray will charge in fleet-fleet combat in any scale due to how fast Vikings die (they need about 3 seconds uninterrupted attack per tier and to gain 2 tiers to charge), this can easily turn a battle in the Vikings' favour.

However, what about durability?

Void Ray with 100 Shield and 150 Life...
1.66 HP/G

Viking with 125 Life...
1.66 HP/G

They are both equally matched health wise.

So the Viking against Void Ray battle comes down to a few factors...
1. Are the Void Rays charged or going to become charged?
2. How many wasted shots do the Vikings give off?
3. How many free shots can the Vikings take before the Void Rays engage?

Un-upgraded Void Rays always lose to Vikings. Charging Void Rays always lose to Vikings. Void Rays that are being kited also always lose to Vikings. The mathematics speaks for itself.

Thors only counter Light aircraft. This makes them perfect against Phoenix and Mutalisks. Even though they are long ranged they deal very little damage against non-Light aircraft. Brood Lords are surprisingly tough so need a large number of barrages to kill. On the other hand you will find Brood Lords need surprisingly few barrages of minions to kill a Thor, especially if the minions are not being killed. Vikings, however, do extra damage to Brood Lords also from a very long range making them perfect counters for Brood Lords. They even deal with those pesky Corrupters who are armored as well.

 

[May90]

Gosh... I don't get this argument. If a person claims that "Void Rays out maneuver fucking Vikings", he is either a troll or a player with INSANELY bad micro.

RiotZ, have you ever tried the "hit and run" tactics with attack-move instead of 'S' or 'H'? And, by the way, what is your main race? Because if your main race is Terran and you have trouble with Vikings against Void Rays, then, no offense, you are just bad.