Ultimate Spell Map?

[Jazztastic]

After tinkering around with the Ultimate Terraining Map for a bit (or UTM, as it is commonly called), I wondered if a similar idea would be possible with spells. I've been tossing around the idea for a few weeks, so here it is:

We take approved spells and systems, and bind them all together into one map. Sort them into groups inside the trigger editor so people can easily find what they want and simply delete the categories they don't need. This would be incredibly useful to have, as massive amounts of spells would be available for mappers to pick and choose waht they want. Instead of downloading three and opening three different maps, a mapper could just copy whatever folder he wanted into his map.

Obviously there would be some restrictions. Since this would be aimed at the casual mapper, spells and systems not compatible with vanilla world editor would not be included. Spells and systems that are similar to other spells/systems already included will not make the cut, I don't think it's wise to include 5 inventory systems. Spells and systems that are not fully polished will not be included, just because it is approved doesnt mean users want them. Imports in spells and systems will negatively impact a spells chance of being selected. Spells using hashtables in a similar group would all be changed to run off of a single hashtable, but systems would keep whatever corresponding hashtables they have.

Spells will be grouped into the following categories, Systems will all be filed under a single category. Categories will probably change/be added as I look more in depth into the spells section.

• Arcane
• Lightning
• Fire
• Water
• Ice
• Poison
• Earth
• Holy
• Death

Every single resource added will be properly documented both inside the map, and on wherever this map ends up posted. The map would also provide an adequate testing grounds for all the spells included, but not systems.

I posted in this Triggers & Scripts because there was no better forum (TrollBrain posted his efficiency thing here). I'd like feedback on this idea before I actually set anything in motion, I want to know what people think about the concept of an "Ultimate Spells Map". I for one think it would be a useful resource.

 

[-Derp-]

Its a good idea, just the time you'd have to put into this would be... large. If you're willing to put that much time into this, I think it could turn out to be pretty useful.

 

[Jazztastic]

I'm guessing about 5 minutes per spell, to download, open, extract everything I need, and then import, and document. Spells using hashtables would take slightly longer, due to the fact that I'm going to compress them to a single hash per category. At 200 spells, I'm looking at 1000 minutes of work, a project easily do-able within a month.

On a related note, the title "Ultimate Spell Compendium" might work better.

 

[Skycraft]

I support this idea.

Hidden

 

[rysnt11]

I would suggest add new category comment

• indexing - normal indexing system that almost been used
• hashtable - all spells that using hashtable will be categorized below this line
• unit indexer - all spells that using bribe's unit indexer will be categorized below this line
• system - i guess you know what i want to say

 

[Jazztastic]

It's a good idea, but not practical. Spells are to be listed to what the user needs to find, and how it was created makes 0 difference to a casual user. And dividing it into those sections doesn't make much of a difference anyways.

Also, there is practically nothing that uses Bribes indexer, not yet anyways. It will definitely be included in the system section however.

 

[rysnt11]

Well, i seen one spell that using bribe's unit indexer, i think this one is the unit indexer's spell

 

[Jazztastic]

Yeah it does. I even tried to write one, but I cant use recycling, I'm a hashtable guy

 

[rysnt11]

well then, need some help?, btw you can use jngp's obj merger, to merge all the object data you need (trigger, object editor's data etc)

 

[Jazztastic]

Seeing as I'm not changing any of the code (except in hashtable spells), I won't need any help to deal with it. If I do need help because of the massive size of this project, I'll let you know.

 

[rysnt11]

Ok, btw, i'm also in progess creating the ultimate model compilation (almost same like utm), well, contact me if you need a hand

 

[Pharaoh_]

Well, you'll definitely face some restrictions. As far as I can see, you will include vanilla Jass and GUI.

For starters, there will be some issue with the maximum variable count used (although it's up to 10.000, but I am not sure how many you intend to implement).

Secondly, it's not as easy as a massive model implementation, like in the UTM.

Thirdly, models in the model section are harder to be searched right, mostly because some users tend to use random naming conversions, while spells have specific keywords and will bring up more accurate results.

Fourthly, some spells make more sense in specific types of maps: Aeon of Strife, Tower Defense, RPG, etc., however, the aim of this map is supposed to be globally accepted, no matter what the type of the user's map is.

Fifthly, a Recommended and above spell doesn't mean that Recommended- spells won't be as useful as the former ones. So, if you manage to make a collection of usefulness, you'll most likely end up making the Ultimate System Map. However, most useful systems are not uploaded in the Spells section, but lie around as direct scripts (which leads you to reconsidering vJass).

Sixthly, that category setup indicates a conventional way of gathering spells and sorting them out; you can't foresee what a user will ever actually want, which is the occasion where he'll return to the traditional way of searching spell, rendering this map quite useless for his personal necessity.

Seventhly, the Spells section is updated really often, which will make other spells, already in the USM, unnecessary.


If you are enthusiast over this, then go for it and don't mind my comments, but I wanted to point some things out.

 

[Bannar]

Tell me what you think of the concept

Ultimate Spell Map

I'm sorry mate, but in my opinion comparing adventages of such project and Ultimate terrain map (I guess you took the idea from there) is out of world. Script resources change too dynamicaly and there is lot of them. Unlike in terrain, where to be honest everything is constant.

Furthermore, whats your idea about documentation? Some of the systems require others to work properly what makes job even harder. How would you explain ~50 systems in one map?
I think that 'Spells' section is enough, and I like that each system has it's own thread what makes it smooth - each thread is place only for given system, you won't find there any misleading informations, or a mess from puting everything into one bag.
Most systems got spell examples in testmaps anyway. I can't image having ton of test-spells in one map. It's better to divide such large amount of informations into small pieces, so user doesn't have to brain-storm everytime, looking for resource he currently needs.

 

[Magtheridon96]

Why don't we all write our own spells and post them here in this thread to create 2 different maps:
- The Ultimate vJass Spell Map
- The Ultimate GUI Spell Map

How would you explain ~50 systems in one map?

All you'd need:
- TimerUtils
- GroupUtils
- UnitIndexer
- DamageEvent
- Event
- WorldBounds
- CTL (T32 is deprecated)
- SoundUtils (maybe)
- Table
- CommonEvent (or GTrigger if you feel like hating on me )
- Heal (the one I made or to piss me off, the one at wc3c.net xD)

 

[Jay the Editor]

This concept is just great which might be simply useful for any mapper.
But wouldn't it be hard if you need to compare the spells one-by-one? Besides, spells are extremely hard to be compare because almost each are with different ideas, effects. If you going to add in each and every approved spells, I think you need to take some time to download almost each and every map in Hive Workshop.

I truly apologise for being not able to give any comments/suggestions because I'm still inexperience in mapping Great work, Jazztastic!

 

[baassee]

I guess the idea is quite cool but still I wonder what the output would actually be.

 

[Jazztastic]

@Mag, we could do that. If you want to overhead the vJASS version, you would be my first pick for the position.

Thanks for the comments guys. I'm going to start this tonight actually. I'll keep you posted.

 

[GhostThruster]

Um I see no purpose for this.

Theres a spells section for a reason.

 

[Jazztastic]

Instead of downloading and opening 50~ maps, you can download a single map, with everything categorized neatly and efficiently. Similar to how the UTM just saves terrainers the trouble of downloading and importing a ton of models, this is supposed to help casual mappers easily find high quality spells for their maps.

 

[Adiktuz]

Actually, I think its not totally useful... but it depends on how you would do it... ^.^

And if you want the spells to be testable, you will be restricted a bit...

 

[Jazztastic]

Suggestions on what you would like to see would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Adiktuz]

Well, basically what Maggy suggested, since its the basics that you need...

 

[GhostThruster]

Instead of downloading and opening 50~ maps, you can download a single map, with everything categorized neatly and efficiently. Similar to how the UTM just saves terrainers the trouble of downloading and importing a ton of models, this is supposed to help casual mappers easily find high quality spells for their maps.

Instead of downloading one map (w/o vJASS or any 3rd party dependent scripts in it btw), and having to skim through several categories (and I'm not sure but if you have alot of triggers there might even be some lag), you simply left-click this little white rectangle in the spells section and type what you want. And you know that most maps only use a few systems and spells (I say most, coz some mappers know not the way of coding and some are just too lazy to come up with their own spells), so the vast majority of shit inside this USM will go unused.

Comparing this to the UTM is a bad comparison. Models are different to spells, they are more inaccesible, they are used more than any other resource, and they are more numerable.
Spells are quite easy to find in the spells section, the majority of them aren't downloaded or used much (personally, the only one I've used more than once is NFWar's bullet system), and there aren't as many spells as to create a need to compile them into an archive.
One more thing, alot of the models in the UTM come in sets. And alot more cannot be uploaded into the models section, simply because they are too simple or too many. The author of the UTM had to find all those models too.
What you're doing is just downloading a bunch of random spells 'n' systems from a spells section and puttin' 'em all in a map.

All due respect ser, this idea ain't any use.

 

[Adiktuz]

especially jass or vJASS resources, most of them can be applied by simply copy-pasting the code posted without the need of downloading a map...

 

[Bannar]

Unless Jazztastic gonna spamm all the scripts in map's description, vJass resources will be useless in such map. Again, they are just CnP.

 

[GhostThruster]

Btw, if you do decide to make this, you should really categorise on the spell's theme, you should sort them by effects instead.