TotT Discussion

[McQvaBlood]

So, it's finally here. The beta of the first two maps are available for play.
There are still a few stuff missing, but if I don't release them now, I fear I'll spend another week working only five minutes on the maps every day.

The code system should be working perfectly. You'll notice you get a small information table of what Maiev has learnt and what items she carries when you enter a valid code. The same table will be added for Saithis as well, once I have all the abilities finalized.
You cannot transfer ownership of units yet, however, everything else you're used to from Spoon's maps should be working smoothly.
The tome system is there and I like it, but I'm interested in your opinions as well.

I've done my best to make the maps as bug free as possible, but there might still be some of them left in there. As always, report any abnormalities you find.

And of course, it's up to you to decide if the maps are of high enough quality or if they are below your expectations.

EDIT: I've removed the beta maps, as there are more up-to-date versions posted here: http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/1869338-post18.html

 

[Amauta]

you have tho adding the insame mode xD

 

[McQvaBlood]

Yep, to the second map. The first one is hard enough on insane.

 

[TheSpoon]

I'll try it out when I can, I can't wait :3!

EDIT: Sorry this took so long to get back to.
I'm gonna check them TONIGHT.

Please come back McQva : >

EDIT2: They were brilliant! - I think you've definitely got the job.
Few notes:
- You MUST have the bit about hiveworkshop in the loading screen. (Its part of hosted project rules)
- Skipping cinematics seems a bit wierd? The text only appears for the other player that you want to skip right?
- I like the Tomes - I hope the code doesn't get too long and not display - this is what happens if too much information is stored. Its what kept happening to me.
- The intro screen was really nice, I like it.
- I like that you've done things different, but its still the same. Its nice : >
- Something wierd happened in the cinematic when I handed in the quest to the Warlock on Chapter 2, Maiev faced away from him?
- And also after that cinematic my tree of lifes that were under construction went a bit wierd, they moved a bit, the wisp appeared next to them, and they played the stand animation even though they were still building. (Don't know what happened there)
- I didn't notice much different on the -insane mode difficulty for the 2nd chapter. I think I saw some creeps upgrades, but what you need is an improved AI - I can teach you how to do that.

Start uploading them when you want!

 

[McQvaBlood]

Oh, that bug is so annoying. It happens when you unhide stuff. I hide everything during cinematics and when you unhide something that has a Wisp inside, that Wisp will appear. Though I thought I have fixed that... You still can't move that Wisp and it's invulnerable, right?
The cinematics do get wierd sometimes on chapter 2 and that's because chapter 2 was my experiment map and so I may have to redo it completely.
Yes, the insane mode on chapter 2 is not ready, I really wanted to release something just to show that I have actually made progress. Though not much since.

I think I'll be able to handle the AI Editor as well, though I hear it can get rough sometimes. I'll see how it goes and then I'll ask for your help if I really need it. I don't want to keep you from doing your own maps much.

 

[TheSpoon]

Nah don't worry about explanations, they don't take seconds.
And you seem a capable enough guy to understand without going into too much depth.
: >

 

[Twizter]

Played the Second map with my bro. First of all, Kudos to you for successfully creating these maps . Like Spoon said its the same put in a different way.
Only bug I had was that the Shared Food System didn't work. We both could only get Medium Upkeep since our limit was 50.
Besides that, you need to rework the AI a bit so that the enemy attacks more often, but I'm sure you'll finish that in no time

 

[McQvaBlood]

Okay, so I was able to get back to working on the maps today.
Spoon, I was actually able to solve the prematurely reappearing Wisps bug, but you said...

...they played the stand animation even though they were still building...

Just to make sure, the Wisps were playing their stand animation, not the Trees of Life, right?
I can't reproduce the bug with Maiev facing away from the Hermit. I will try to get an actual test on the maps where it's not only me controlling both players and I see if it happens.
Twizter, a big thanks to you and your brother for playing and I'm glad you liked it. The shared food system unfortunately cannot be added, as there is an error that I couldn't work around. (You can't detect if a unit that is cancelled was being produced - and so if it actually reserved the food for itself - or if it was only queued to be trained when cancelled.) Because of this bug, the system will easily desync and cause errors.
However...

We both could only get Medium Upkeep since our limit was 50.

Can you please provide me a replay of this happening? It should certainly not and I just checked it, I had no problem getting to 60 food and high upkeep.

Finally, I will get to work on the AI and get back to you when it's done.

 

[TheSpoon]

I meant the buildings played their stand animations.
However they were still under construction.

The wisps that should've been inside the buildings also appeared next to them.

 

[McQvaBlood]

Now that is odd. I could reproduce the bug with the Wisps very easily, as it happened every time and so I have fixed that.
However, the buildings continued building properly, at least for me. (As in, not only the building continued, but also the animation.)
Have you skipped the cinematics, by the way?

 

[TheSpoon]

Don't think I did skip.
Its not really a big bug,
besides you may have fixed it when doing the other stuff perhaps?

 

[McQvaBlood]

So I did make some progress today. All eight cinematics for Chapter Three are ready as well as a good third of the actual gameplay I have already refined to where I want it to be. At this pace I might be able to release a beta this weekend or maybe some time next week.
By then, I also plan to have an AI for Chapter Two ready.
After that, it would be time to go official... I'm quite afraid of that, actually.

EDIT

I will begin drafting the release descriptions here.

Chapter One

Sentinels Campaign: Terror of the Tides
Based on the work of The-Spoon and Blizzard Entertainment.

Chapter One: Rise of the Naga
"Though the demonlord, Archimonde, and the Burning Legion were finally defeated at the Battle of Mount Hyjal, much of Ashenvale Forest remains tainted by foul, demonic energies. The combined efforts of both the druids and the Sentinels have brought a tenuous peace to the northlands, but dark creatures still lurk within the shadowed woods. In this perilous time, Maiev Shadowsong, the warden who once guarded Illidan’s barrow prison, has come forth to hunt her dangerous prey--and chain him once again beneath the cold earth."

General Changes: Features Warden Saithis as the second hero. / Features a Tome System. (All heroes receive the overall stats from all the Tomes you collect throughout the campaign.) / You can choose from two difficulties: Normal, which resembles the original campaign's Hard difficulty, only this time you have an additional hero and Insane, which compensates for this with some tweaks.

Insane Mode: Some enemy units are replaced with a more powerful unit. / Illidan's Naga have more powerful upgrades. / Some runes were removed or replaced with less powerful ones. / The Fountain of Life is replaced with a Defiled Fountain of Life.

Credits: Blizzard Entertainment (Original campaign maps) / The-Spoon (Original concept) / AceHeart (Save and load system) / Vexorian (dummy.mdx) / Ayane (Aura.mdx) / KhalanDuriant; Cosmo; Cufftly; Twizter; Lich_Prince (Support & Beta Testing)

Important Information: The 2 Player Campaign is a concept first brought to Warcraft III by The-Spoon. The idea is to convert the original maps of Blizzard Entertainment so that it can be played by two people. The-Spoon, however, only wishes to complete the Reign of Chaos campaigns. Therefore, I have decided to do the Sentinel campaign.

Chapter Two

Sentinels Campaign: Terror of the Tides
Based on the work of The-Spoon and Blizzard Entertainment.

Chapter Two: The Broken Isles
"The next day, on the shores of a mysterious island chain, Maiev and her Watchers inspect some ancient, yet strangely familiar ruins."

General Changes: Features Warden Saithis as the second hero. / Features a Tome System. (All heroes receive the overall stats from all the Tomes you collect throughout the campaign.) / Features a shared upgrade and techtree system, tribute commands (-gold; -lumber), 60 maximum food per player, new upkeep rates. / You can choose from two difficulties: Normal, which resembles the original campaign's Hard difficulty, only this time you have an additional hero and Insane, which compensates for this with some tweaks.

Insane Mode: The AI of Naga Strikeforce and Illidan's Servitors are improved.

Credits: Blizzard Entertainment (Original campaign maps) / The-Spoon (Original concept) / AceHeart (Save and load system) / Vexorian (dummy.mdx) / Ayane (Aura.mdx) / KhalanDuriant; Cosmo; Cufftly; Twizter; Lich_Prince (Support & Beta Testing)

Important Information: The 2 Player Campaign is a concept first brought to Warcraft III by The-Spoon. The idea is to convert the original maps of Blizzard Entertainment so that it can be played by two people. The-Spoon, however, only wishes to complete the Reign of Chaos campaigns. Therefore, I have decided to do the Sentinel campaign.

Chapter Three

Sentinels Campaign: Terror of the Tides
Based on the work of The-Spoon and Blizzard Entertainment.

Chapter Three: The Tomb of Sargeras
"Moments later, just inside the entrance of the shadowed tomb, Maiev and her Watchers brace themselves for an ambush."

General Changes: Features Warden Saithis as the second hero. / Features a Tome System. (All heroes receive the overall stats from all the Tomes you collect throughout the campaign.) / Features a boss fight. / The Shadow Orb has been rescaled to allow an even division between the two heroes. (Note that you can still have all ten pieces on one hero, but if you decide to divide it between the two heroes, it is also as strong.) / You can choose from two difficulties: Normal, which resembles the original campaign's Hard difficulty, only this time you have an additional hero and Insane, which compensates for this with some tweaks.

Insane Mode: Many runes were removed or replaced with less powerful ones. / Some creeps were replaced with more powerful ones. / Illidan's Naga have more powerful upgrades. / Death Coil (Skeletal Orc Champion), Chain Lightning (Stormreaver Necrolyte), Mana Burn (Felhound) and Cripple (Doom Guard) are enabled.

Credits: Blizzard Entertainment (Original campaign maps) / The-Spoon (Original concept) / AceHeart (Save and load system) / Vexorian (dummy.mdx) / Ayane (Aura.mdx) / KhalanDuriant; Cosmo; Cufftly; Twizter; Lich_Prince (Support & Beta Testing)

Important Information: The 2 Player Campaign is a concept first brought to Warcraft III by The-Spoon. The idea is to convert the original maps of Blizzard Entertainment so that it can be played by two people. The-Spoon, however, only wishes to complete the Reign of Chaos campaigns. Therefore, I have decided to do the Sentinel campaign.[/url]

 

[Cosmo]

McQvaBlood, its just that i think u forgot to put an image for the 2PNE01X, cause the MapPreview is still a "?", different from the second one, which has a nice img with a NE archer.
Besides, maybe u forgot to put the third chapter, because u made its description in ur edit but i cant find it.

 

[McQvaBlood]

I haven't posted a chapter 3 beta here, yes.
I only posted versions here that I wanted a specific person to test. The second chapter, which you have probably downloaded from my previous post, for example, was sent to TheSpoon, because I asked for his help in a bug that I couldn't fix. Although I know the solution now, it can't be implented properly, that's why the maps are still delayed.

But don't worry, all the work in progress maps have their map preview updated now.

EDIT: Btw, if you do want a go at it, chapter 3 is complete (more or less), so I can post a beta here.

 

[Cosmo]

Well, if u think its ok to post the chapt three, I would really like to play it and I can tell u if I find any bugs when my friend gets online to play with me.
Btw, if u want to post the others that have the MapPreview it would be nice.

 

[McQvaBlood]

Okay, I still want to code the final two abilities of Saithis. I'll get that done and I'll post betas here later.

 

[Cosmo]

McQvaBlood, I think u should make Saithis' blink have an extra effect as it cant be targeted on the ground like Maiev's blink. Maybe it should deal damage to the target(if its not allied) or increase her atk spd/dmg/armor for some time.

 

[McQvaBlood]

I really like Saithis' Shift as it is now, clean and simple. But if I find it's not powerful enough, I may add something like that.

In the meantime, I was finally able to solve a major bug that was halting production for weeks and therefore alpha versions of the first three maps are now done. If everything goes according to plan and no major bug appear, these are the maps that will actually be released.

I would really appreciate if someone tested all of them and perhaps posted the replays here then.

EDIT: The beta maps originally posted here are now removed, as more up-to-date versions have been posted.

 

[Cufftly]

I really like Saithis' Shift as it is now, clean and simple. But if I find it's not powerful enough, I may add something like that.

In the meantime, I was finally able to solve a major bug that was halting production for weeks and therefore alpha versions of the first three maps are now done. If everything goes according to plan and no major bug appear, these are the maps that will actually be released.

I would really appreciate if someone tested all of them and perhaps posted the replays here then.

I could do this for you with my friend. Maybe even today, but probably later this week.

 

[McQvaBlood]

That would be so nice of you.
There are a few minor stuff that has been corrected for the release and that will appear as bugs when you play the maps uploaded here.

• The ability level of Summon Twilight Guardian will not carry over to the next maps, as the code present in the posted versions fail to actually code that. When playing the maps posted here, you will receive an equal number of unspent skill points and will be able to level the ability once the game has begun.
• You cannot buy a Potion of Healing from an Ancient of Wonders if the owner of the Ancient of Wonders does not have a Tree of Ages of their own, even if the other player does have one.

Sorry for these inconveniences.

EDIT:
I've discovered a rather serious bug in the save system that can, under certain circumstances, spawn incorrect items for heroes. While this bug may not appear at all for you while playing, I will have to make all codes that you receive on the beta maps become obsolete with the (eventual) release.
I've also discovered a bug on Chapter Three, that will cause Saithis and Illidan's Naga to behave like while escaping from the Tomb.
Plus, a short update: While waiting for someone to post some test results here, I've almost completed Chapter Four. Some small bugs still have to be corrected, but all cinematics and difficulty adjustments are done.

 

[Cufftly]

Here they are. You are free to laugh, not that professional.
First, we totally missed the berserk wildkin in the first one, and on the third we died while escaping, didn't remember we could skip some things by blinking, then it bugged somehow, not respawning us or something but the time still ticked. You'll see this for yourself. But overall, very well done maps.

EDIT: We also failed horribly on the 2nd map by not getting more gold mines but it made the end that much more challenging.

 

[McQvaBlood]

First of all, I would like to say a big thank you for playing them.
Second, your gameplay was not that bad at all, there were a few funny moments, but you managed to win in the end and that's what matters. I also would never have thought of massing Glaive Throwers to beat the AI.

I have two questions though:
I noticed you were trying to -exchange units on the second map, a function I decided to remove all together earlier during development. Do you think I should add it?
I noticed you were not using the load codes. Is this out of laziness or are you not sure how they work?

(I have accidentally pressed edit on your post which is why the "Last edited by McQvaBlood; Today at 10:31 AM. " is on your post. I have not edited anything, though.)

 

[Cufftly]

First of all, I would like to say a big thank you for playing them.
Second, your gameplay was not that bad at all, there were a few funny moments, but you managed to win in the end and that's what matters. I also would never have thought of massing Glaive Throwers to beat the AI.

I have two questions though:
I noticed you were trying to -exchange units on the second map, a function I decided to remove all together earlier during development. Do you think I should add it?
I noticed you were not using the load codes. Is this out of laziness or are you not sure how they work?

(I have accidentally pressed edit on your post which is why the "Last edited by McQvaBlood; Today at 10:31 AM. " is on your post. I have not edited anything, though.)

I was just testing the -exchange if it worked, not really needed that much IMO. And to the load codes, when I started playing the map I didn't notice anything else than the "type -ok to begin", nothing towards -
load. :/

EDIT: I just tested it in single player, I had saved both of the codes, and they worked. I guess I just thought the codes weren't fully implemented in the beta yet.

 

[McQvaBlood]

Well, there is a line in the loading screen:
Code: No
OR
Code: Yes
And there's also the description that shows what items and abilities you have.

Do you think I should make it more obvious? For example a short text that says: You can load your items from the previous map using the code you received.
(Btw, even if you have a load code you both have to type -ok to begin.)

 

[Cufftly]

Well, there is a line in the loading screen:
Code: No
OR
Code: Yes
And there's also the description that shows what items and abilities you have.

Do you think I should make it more obvious? For example a short text that says: You can load your items from the previous map using the code you received.
(Btw, even if you have a load code you both have to type -ok to begin.)

Yeah I understand all of this now, but there was no line saying to use the command "-load". Didn't give much thought into this while playing, though.

 

[Cosmo]

I'm testing the maps right now, I'll edit this post and add the replays when I have them all done.

EDIT: I found some bugs:

Chapt 1: There is a serious bug that when u skip the last cinematic, the campaign is reset for some reason. You will understand it better when you see the replay.

Chapt 2: It's not exactly a bug, but there is only one extra mine with 10k of gold, as the last naga base's mine is on shallow water, being impossible to build a TOL next to it. Think u should make another extra mine and make them have 5000g each, instead of only one with 10000g.
Obs: I dont know exactly if the gold store of the extra mine is 10000 because when i got it the nagas had already got a bit of gold, so it probably was something like 12000g. But the idea is to divide the gold store by 2.

General: There is a little bug on Saithis's first ability, the one with glaives(forgot the name). It's that there is no level skip requirement, you can learn the skill level 3 when your hero is level 4, while u should be at least level 5 to learn any skill level 3.

 

[tulee]

Woot Mcqvablood good job on trying to complete TFT. Best of luck!

 

[McQvaBlood]

@tulee: Thanks, although I only intend to complete TotT, because I don't know yet if I'll have time for more.
@Cosmo: Thanks for the report.
Level skip: Yeah, I noticed that a few times, but kept forgetting about it. I will fix it now.
Chapter Two: There is actually another mine on the map other than the one owned by the Red Naga, that has 12000 gold in it. I will post a screenshot of both.

Oh, you're using a patch version other than 1.25. I don't know when I'll be able to view your replays. Can you explain the skip bug? What exactly happened? Are you sure you have not mistaken the end of game interface for the start of game interface? They look quite alike.

EDIT: -So here's the screenshot. You can see the two gold mines you can claim (red circle) and the gold they contain. (12500, 12000) The Naga gold mine has 500 gold more, because with slow harvest (1 gold per turn) they will mine about 500 gold from the mine before you can take them out.
-The level skip bug is not present in the version on my computer, so I have corrected that since the beta release.

 

[Cosmo]

@McQvaBlood
Wow, sry, I hadnt seen the right side mine, my fault
About the bug on chapt one, I will explain exactly what happened:

I was playing with my friend on insane mode, we were going well till the last cinematic, that triggers when u destroy the gate.
Then, as my friend doesnt like cinematics, he voted to skip it and so did I, but I skipped a few seconds later than he did. Then something really strange happened, it was like the cinematic had been skipped, the blue screens below had disappeared, but we still could hear the voices, the camera was like on cinematics and we still could see the units's faces below when they were speaking. I thought it was a simple glitch and everything would be normal after it had finished. However, when it finished our heroes were sent back to the starting location but our units remained where we were, near the destroyed gate. What's more, we received the starting units again, in other words, I had 2 naishas. The strangest thing is that the nagas were still destroying the ships and we lost cause we were to far away to get there in time.

And sry about the patch, its cause I play on Garena, so if I update my patch its gonna be difficult to play cause most people still use 1.24e.

EDIT: Tell me when you see the replay with the bug.
About the level skip, it was on the chapter three, maybe u should see my second replay
and see that, in the end, the Saithis's first spell is level 3, while the max lvl of this chapt is 4.
I can post a screenshot here if u want.

 

[McQvaBlood]

After I asked you to explain the bug, I noticed I have 1.24.4 in my Warcraft Version Switcher and was able to watch the replay, so sorry for making you type that long post.
The bug is confirmed and I will look into the matter, though I think I already know what might be going on.

By the way, I was also able to fix the loading code bug. Unlike my first assumption, you have no chance to come across this bug on the beta chapters, as this bug was linked to loading a Shadow Orb - a thing you can only do from Chapter Four onwards.

EDIT #1: I have fixed the cinematic skip bug. All cinematics have their name and this one somehow got named 'Intro' instead of 'Harbor'. This is why the skip actions associated with the 'Intro' cinematic were done for you. These are to move the two heroes to the start of the map and spawn the starting units, such as Naisha, which would explain the two Naishas problem.
I will check all the maps, in case this happened somewhere else. I am also adding some explanations to the starting screens per Cufftly's suggestion.

EDIT #2: Didn't see your edit. No, I know exactly what you're talking about. I know that this bug exists, as I have noticed it before myself. But I have opened the maps and on all of them the level skip is correct, which means I have already realized this and fixed it, the uploaded beta versions still have them, though.

 

[Cosmo]

It's ok then. It's cause I hadnt got exactly what u meant on the other post about the level skip.
Post the updates of the maps here when u finish them for us to play it and see how it is.

 

[McQvaBlood]

I will also post the Chapter Four Beta. Still no ultimate for Saithis and I can't guarantee that it is bug free, but other than that it's pretty much done.
Once again, if you do play one or preferably all of them, post all replays here, even if you hadn't noticed any abnormality during playing.
By the way, I'm terribly sorry for this, but all the codes you were given during the previous beta maps are now useless, so you may have to start all over again or play using the default settings. :S

If it goes on like this, I will end up releasing the whole campaign at once.

 

[TheSpoon]

Nice work McQva, release them however you want.
But I won't let you beat me finishing your campaign xD
How many chapters is yours? 8?

 

[McQvaBlood]

Yes, eight playable chapters plus two interludes and an epilogue.
Though the epilogue will be extremely easy to integrate into Chapter Eight.

I had a lot to figure out, but now I'm getting there. And I don't think I could finish my campaign faster than you can yours. It's my first campaign, it bugged very often, especially the first two maps, I'm still figuring out the AI Editor. So, yes, you have a lot more experience.

@Cosmo: Looking at the stats of Blade Shield, you were right all along, you can learn level 3 when your hero is only level 4. I'm sorry for telling you I've already fixed that. I obviously did not. However, I will do that now. Thanks for your patience, I can be irritating at times.

EDIT:
I also had a playtest today, so if you come across the following bugs, they are already fixed.
-Blade Shield level skip. (Hopefully fixed now.)
-A cosmetic issue with Blade Shield on water.
-Two shadow bugs near the last Gul'dan cinematic on Chapter Three.
-Chapter Three respawns you now if you die while escaping, but it does where you have fallen and not at the start of the escape sequence.
Other than these, I really think the first three maps are bug free now, duh.

Chapter Four has a few more bugs, as that is a beta. Some of them have been fixed, still report all of them.

EDIT #2: I've changed the thread's name, as the beta phase is now over with the release of the first three maps.