The Ideas Thread

[Khazmo]

Sometimes an idea just isn't big enough to get a full thread devoted to it, or the ideas are for a campaign set after the Human campaign, so I felt it'd be best to fit those small ideas and concepts under a single banner. This way InsaneMonster gets an incredibly useful resource to tap into, and we can get discussions going on them.

Index

Exodus of the Horde

Gold Mines - [1]
Unit Variations - [1]

The Scourge of Lordaeron

Bael'gun Flamebeard - [1]
Divergent Courses - [1]
Duke Lionheart - [1]
Garithos - [1]
Gold Mines - [1]
Hearthglen - [1] [2] [3]
Isilden - [1] [2]
Jaina Proudmoore - [1]
Mehlar Dawnblade - [1] [2] [3] [4]
Northrend - Drak'tharon Keep - [1]
Stratholme - [1]
Taelan Fordring - [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
Tirion Fordring - [1] [2] [3]
Unit Variations - [1]

The Path of the Damned

Anasterian Sunstrider - [1]
Archmage Belo'vir - [1] [2]
Blackrock Clan - [1]
Dar'khan Drathir - [1] [2]
Gold Mines - [1]
Halduron - [1]
High Elf Roster - [1]
Lana'thel - [1]
Liadrin - [1]
Lor'themar - [1]
Rommath - [1]
Quel'thalas - Dead Scar - [1] [2]
Quel'thalas - Fall of Silvermoon - [1] [2]
Quel'thalas - Key of the Three Moons - [1] [2]
Quel'thalas - Runestones - [1]
Quel'thalas - Sunwell - [1]
Sylvanas Windrunner - [1]
Thalorien Dawnseeker - [1]
The Dreadlords Convene - [1]
Unit Variations - [1]

The Invasion of Kalimdor

Alliance Banners - [1]
Alliance Remnant Leaders - [1]
Gold Mines - [1]
Neeloc Greedyfingers - [1]
Orc Clans - [1]
Shandris Feathermoon - [1]
Tauren War Priest - [1]
Tauren Youngblood - [1]
Unit Variations - [1]

Eternity's End

Broll Bearmantle - [1]
Druids of the Fang - [1]
Druids of the Saber - [1]
Gold Mines - [1]
Mystics - [1]
Naralax - [1]

Terror of the Tides

Gold Mines - [1]

Curse of the Blood Elves

Gold Mines - [1]
Outland Mission Geography - [1]

Legacy of the Damned

Gold Mines - [1]

The Founding of Durotar

Jaina Proudmoore - [1]

 

[Hawkknight97]

I was wondering about the Units that was shown in Warcraft Chronicles of the Second War and during like the Arthas Campaign I wonder if we'll ever see the Versions of the Blackrock Orc Grunts with the Hammers with set Forest Trolls or we might see them in like the Undead Campaign where they guard the Portal.

Also some of the Human Nation Kingdoms like Kul'tiras in terms of the Kul'tiran Military during Thrall's Isle Campaign and of course even the Rexxar Campaign too. Some of the Gilnean Units along with set Stromgarde, and Dalaran Units. during the Warsong's Attack on the Surviving Human Nations with Jaina.

 

[FeelMyRash]

So, this is like a ideas thread for a fix of the Reforged Campaign or something?

I don't know if my ideas count since I don't have Reforged, but it would be cool if Baelgun Flamebeard (the Dwarf leader from Frozen Throne) was seen as a special unit, like Captain Falric, during the Northrend arc of RoC's Human campaign.

 

[Khazmo]

So, this is like a ideas thread for a fix of the Reforged Campaign or something?

Pretty much. This can be anything from fixes to additions, to anything in between.

 

[Khazmo]

Some assorted ideas for the Alliance in Kalimdor:

Banners

During Warcraft 2 each had an interesting looking flag design, as the example below shows:

It would be good if during The Invasion of Kalimdor, that each of the different regiments tied to Gilneas, Stromgarde, etc. had banners in their bases that reflect the homeland that sent these forces. It would help to sell that this was a multi-nation exodus, akin to how the Horde had many clans flee Lordaeron. Using the WC2 artwork as inspiration would work nicely.

Remnant Leaders

During Reign of Chaos we see two named characters as part of the Alliance Remnants (Jaina Proudmoore and Duke Lionheart), but any other hero tied to their factions are random name Paladins, Mountain Kings or Arch Mages. This would be fine (if not boring), but sometimes you get some weird combinations like a Dwarf leading Gilneas' forces. So my suggestion is that we either create new characters to act as leaders for each of the factions, or we liberally use Theramore NPCs from WoW to fill these roles. Either way, making the characters more thematic to who they are leading would be a great immersive change.

Jaina in Rexxar's Campaign

To show the passage of time and Jaina's new position as the leader of the Alliance (at least, as far as the Alliance Remnants know), I recommend that she gets an updated model. My suggestion would be to use the Daughter of the Tides/Seas clothing & hairstyle but giving her the exact same staff weapon and hair colour as she has in her Reign of Chaos model, as well as the same animation set. This might seem superfluous, but small changes like these can go a long way to selling the idea that a lot has changed in the time between campaigns.

 

[InsaneMonster]

Some assorted ideas for the Alliance in Kalimdor:

Banners

During Warcraft 2 each had an interesting looking flag design, as the example below shows:

It would be good if during The Invasion of Kalimdor, that each of the different regiments tied to Gilneas, Stromgarde, etc. had banners in their bases that reflect the homeland that sent these forces. It would help to sell that this was a multi-nation exodus, akin to how the Horde had many clans flee Lordaeron. Using the WC2 artwork as inspiration would work nicely.

Remnant Leaders

During Reign of Chaos we see two named characters as part of the Alliance Remnants (Jaina Proudmoore and Duke Lionheart), but any other hero tied to their factions are random name Paladins, Mountain Kings or Arch Mages. This would be fine (if not boring), but sometimes you get some weird combinations like a Dwarf leading Gilneas' forces. So my suggestion is that we either create new characters to act as leaders for each of the factions, or we liberally use Theramore NPCs from WoW to fill these roles. Either way, making the characters more thematic to who they are leading would be a great immersive change.

Jaina in Rexxar's Campaign

To show the passage of time and Jaina's new position as the leader of the Alliance (at least, as far as the Alliance Remnants know), I recommend that she gets an updated model. My suggestion would be to use the Daughter of the Tides/Seas clothing & hairstyle but giving her the exact same staff weapon and hair colour as she has in her Reign of Chaos model, as well as the same animation set. This might seem superfluous, but small changes like these can go a long way to selling the idea that a lot has changed in the time between campaigns.

While they are far down the line, I for sure love all of these ideas!

 

[Khazmo]

Druids of the Fang

During Reign of Chaos we wake up the Druids in the mission "Brothers in Blood". This features two types of druids - Druids of the Claw and Druids of the Talon, both of which follow Furion to Mount Hyjal and fight against the demons there. What isn't shown ingame is that there are various other types of druids devoted to different animal totems, but only one of which was known to have fought at the Battle of Mount Hyjal - the Druids of the Fang.

The Druids of the Fang are led by Naralax, and they could shapeshift into the form of giant snakes. If you want more details, take a look at the link below:

Druids of the Fang

“The druids of the Cenarion Circle are helpless children. They cower in their precious Emerald Dream.”

wowpedia.fandom.com

And now onto the idea - I feel that the Druids of the Fang should be added to the Night Elf campaign, but they should be as follows:

1. They should first appear during the Brothers in Blood mission as a pair of druids to wake up who reinforce your units, but they should be an optional find
2. They should only appear in missions that Furion is involved with directly
3. They shouldn't be a recruitable unit, instead they should consist of one or two "reward" units that spawn instantly on these maps, and once they're dead, they're dead. If you only grant the player one of these, make it Naralax
4. The Druid of the Fang should fill a niche that we don't really see. After some discusson on discord, there was some consensus for the idea of the Night Elf form being a quick melee unit that can use slowing attacks, but the Snake form is a ranged unit that does damage-over-time through poison.
5. The design of the unit should not entirely match WoW's designs, as the design would not translate well into WC3. My suggestion would be to make something new that feels similar to what other druids wear in the game, or like the artwork from the RPG books as shown in the link above.

Broll Bearmantle

Another idea for the mission "Brothers in Blood" and beyond. At the end of the mission Furion uses the Horn of Cenarius to awaken the Druids of the Claw, afterwards one of them speaks with him. Right now it's a nameless Druid, but I recommend replacing him with a character from the comics & WoW called Broll Bearmantle. He has taken on a surprisingly important role over the years, and this would serve as a neat introduction to him as a character. Also, with the likelihood that someone will come along and make campaigns based on post-WC3 events, it is inevitable that he'll surface in those. As such, introducing him here would provide a narrative link between Blizzard campaigns and fan campaigns.

But in terms of gameplay, he would serve as a "Captain" in a similar way to Falric and Marwyn do in the Scourge of Lordaeron campaign, and would appear alongside Furion for the final mission. He would require no new dialogue, which also makes introducing him a long simpler.

If the two ideas above are made, I suggest that we only receive Naralax as a "Captain" unit, akin to Broll. This way the player isn't flooded with units they don't train, but they get a couple of well-known characters from WoW and it provides a narrative link to the game.

Mystics

One final idea for the "Brothers in Blood" mission. In the Watchers area are a bunch of casters called Mystics, and they stand out for the obvious reason that they're human. It was originally believed that they were intended to be Night Elves, and perhaps they were still intended to be them but weren't changed properly for Reforged. Whatever the reason, whatever they were intended to be, at this point in time it doesn't seem to make too much sense that the Watchers have these spellcasters in their midst, as they are the folk who tend to hunt down these kinds of people. So, what do we do?

My suggestion is that we treat them as Leywalkers from the RPG books:

Ley walker

It is an occult truth, known to all who study the ways of magic and spellcraft, that great lines of power crisscross the lands of Azeroth. These lines of magic are often harnessed for mighty magical purposes, from the creation of moonwells to (some say) the powerful glowing dome in Dalaran. It...

wowpedia.fandom.com

These are a form of magician that are known to be among the Night Elves, and among many other races, that tap into a web of ley lines emanating out from the Well of Eternity across the world. These seem to be perfectly acceptable part of the Night Elven culture, even if they're considered a bit of a nuisance. My belief is that if we switch the Mystics for Leywalkers, they'll appear to be a more natural ally for the Watchers.

 

[Ethenil]

I think if we're thinking about adding druids of the fang, it would be interesting to have some druids that use cat form as well. In canon they're just bundled up into he druids of the claw, but I usually have them as a separate group known as the druids of the saber. It owuld be fine to just add some druids of the claw in cat form though.

 

[Khazmo]

Gold Mines in Outland

During Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal, we travel to Draenor and it turns out that (image on left) the gold mines on Draenor have black rock instead of grey:

This suggestion would be to do this for the maps using the Outland/Black Citadel tilesets as a nice nod to Warcraft 2. This idea comes from a few of the folk on the discord channel.

Gold Mines in General

Gold mines have some artificial construction in their model. The current model shows a bit of a ramshackle construction against the rock. I think that we should look at making some new models for the Gold Mines when in different realms, so that it feels like it belongs to the dominant race in the region. These models could be made by someone other than InsaneMonster to free him up some time. Here are some of the edited meshes that might make sense:

Quel'thalas - High elven theme on the Gold Mine
Barrens - Centaur theme
Ashenvale - Night elven theme
Felwood - Satyr theme

And so on.

 

[Khazmo]

Map - The Spirits of Ashenvale

Neeloc Greedyfingers

This character is currently represented by the Goblin Sapper model, which consists of three goblins. I suggest replacing this model for the Goblin Alchemist hero model. This model is never used in the campaigns, so it would feel unique and set up Neeloc Greedyfingers as more of a character than just a sapper. This can then be reused for Neeloc's Outpost during the TFT mission To Tame a Land.

Shandris Feathermoon

There are a lot of hints that Shandris (Tyrande's "captain" archer unit) leads the night elven faction known as the Shadowleaves, and these are present on this map. I suggest adding her as a leader for their territory, perhaps even bumping her up into a Hero category in the process.

 

[Khazmo]

Map - Landfall

Orc Clans

Warcraft 3 somewhat skirts around this except when speaking about the Blackrock and Warsong Clans, but there are many different clans that were associated with the New Horde - some that were once powerhouses like the Frostwolves or Bleeding Hollow, and minor clans such as the Rageroar. My suggestion would be to treat this mission as a chance to show that the Orcs are made up of disparate, but ultimately allied, factions all looking for a new future in this frontier.

To do this, we can use models of the Orc Grunts from Chronicles of the Second War to represent individuals from different clans.

Tauren War Priest

There was a cut unit in the mission called a Tauren War Priest which had Command Aura and Heal. I think it'd be a good idea to restore this, or to use a Spirit Walker as a lore appropriate replacement.

Tauren Youngblood

Tauren that join you in the camp are called Tauren Youngbloods. I believe they deserve to get a unit model that's unique compared to the typical Tauren unit, so I suggest using the below image as inspiration for how they could look.

 

[InsaneMonster]

Gold Mines in Outland

During Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal, we travel to Draenor and it turns out that (image on left) the gold mines on Draenor have black rock instead of grey:

This suggestion would be to do this for the maps using the Outland/Black Citadel tilesets as a nice nod to Warcraft 2. This idea comes from a few of the folk on the discord channel.

Gold Mines in General

Gold mines have some artificial construction in their model. The current model shows a bit of a ramshackle construction against the rock. I think that we should look at making some new models for the Gold Mines when in different realms, so that it feels like it belongs to the dominant race in the region. These models could be made by someone other than InsaneMonster to free him up some time. Here are some of the edited meshes that might make sense:

Quel'thalas - High elven theme on the Gold Mine
Barrens - Centaur theme
Ashenvale - Night elven theme
Felwood - Satyr theme

And so on.

I LOVE this idea! I LOVE it!

 

[Aurym]

Some ideas about The Cull of Stratholme

Just a few Lore references I hope it can help you:

(sorry for my bad english)

Before The Cull begins

The fruit and fish trader Brandon Eiredeck. This man and his friend Stephanie Sindree distributed the most of cursed grain among the people of Stratholme. More later many angry and scared villagers asked Brandon and Stephanie if they knew something about the disease.

Before Arthas arrived at the city, Mal'Ganis ordered to the cult of damned to go in Stratholme in order to ensure that the cursed grain works. Villagers saw them and decided to call the local wards.

The mayor of Stratholme, Barthilas, stayed at the town hall with his secretary during the cull until the undead troops killed them. After this, Barthilas was raised as a undead.

After The Cull begins

When Mal'Ganis appeared the cult of damned left his hiding place at the city and joined with the undead army. They were leaded by the necromance Salramm.

During the cull some villagers took weapons and tried to defend their families fighting versus Arthas. Others just passed away by themselves at the fire.

Not all champions of light followed Uther, at least two warrios (Timisson and Lilia) stayed at the chapel of the holy light. They tried to fight undead army but the cull made them mad.

The priestess Eris tried to help a group of sick villagers leaving the city. Sadly, the villagers became to zombies when the curse began, and Eris passed away.

A footman called James refused to follow Arthas and he decided to leave Stratholme. He wrote a letter to his wife (Amelia) aswell.

 

[Khazmo]

Some assorted ideas:

Silver Hand Knights

There are several missions where we see forces under the control of the Silver Hand. During Warcraft 2 the Silver Hand Paladins had a unique design that was really quite striking:

To make the Order of the Silver Hand stand out, I recommend using meshes for their knights that resemble the way they looked in earlier games in the series. Fortunately, the CSW team have released meshes of this type on Hive:

Lordaeron Forces (CSW)

By doing this, it will give them a lot of flavour, and will prevent us from reusing loads of named NPCs in these cutscenes. Some of the maps that these could appear in are:

The Scourge of Lordaeron - March of the Scourge
The Scourge of Lordaeron - The Culling
The Path of the Damned - Digging Up the Dead

Magistrate Randalvarr

The Warcraft RPG was the first to set up the idea of the settlement Valgarde which is established following Arthas' slaying of Mal'ganis. Many of his stranded troops set up home in the Howling Fjord, fortifying it against the furbolg and trolls, and cultivating the land. In the RPG they are led by a half-elf by the name of Randalvarr. As an easter egg, I recommend including him in the cinematic when the emissary recalls Arthas' armies. He shouldn't be a demi-hero, but his presence would be a welcome one to set up who builds Valgarde.

Steadfast

According to Arthas: Rise of the Lich King, Uther had a horse called Steadfast. During the mission "Digging Up the Dead", there are a number of riderless horses near Uther. As an easter egg, I recommend naming one of these Steadfast, and if you kill his mount I think that there should be a buff for Uther's stats as you've pissed the old warrior off.

 

[Khazmo]

Rufus Montaine

According to the RPG books, Sir Rufus Montaine fought in the Battle of Theramore against the Orcs, and was discovered in the wreckage by Thrall. He was known to Thrall and had respected him in his gladiatorial days when few others had, and as such he was treated as one of the honoured dead.

Obviously I won't recommend that we show that as part of a post-battle scene, but I think it'd work to have him as a named enemy to fight during the battle. He doesn't need to be a "boss" or anything, but a Captain-level character would be fine, perhaps with a unique look.

 

[Khazmo]

Falric & Marwyn - Undead Campaign

The Dilemma

Lately on the discord server there have been discussions about what to do with the pair. Should they accompany Arthas all the way through the undead campaign and beyond? Should they vanish entirely never to be seen again? The answers were myriad, and there was very little consensus, so I decided to write up a very brief idea for how to include them in a way that feels natural, yet doesn't involve the player dragging them on every mission.

Chapter 1 - Trudging through the Ashes

From background lore we know that Falric & Marwyn accompany Arthas to the capital city, and are stood at his side as he slays the king (they are the two cultists that follow him into the throne room). We also know that the pair spend their time hunting down the nobility before vanishing from Arthas' tale and are not mentioned again in novels. They eventually turn up in WotLK in Northrend.

If the chapter is expanded so the player can fight through the capital or witness its fall, then clearly they should be along for the ride in some fashion, either as allies or as part of a cutscene. In this instance, they could accompany Arthas for the entire mission as his loyal bodyguards.

If there is no expansion to show that and we start as vanilla does, then either they could be stood at Tichondrius' side (a bit of a weak idea), they could teleport in with Arthas, or they could be found during the course of the mission as allies to use. Whatever happens, you'd end up using them.

Chapter 2 - Digging up the Dead

How they are introduced in Chapter 1 would have no bearing on how they appear in chapter 2. In this map, they would accompany Arthas from the very beginning and during the opening cutscene, one of them will replace the Acolyte with slightly rewritten scenes. For example:

Arthas: What the hell is that?
Falric: Sire, this crude contraption will allow you to transport the remains of the necromancer.
Arthas: Can you not simply raise the remains when we find them? [Arthas says to an Acolyte]
Acolyte: Pardon, Lord, but a being of Kel'Thuzad's power can only be reanimated at a nexus of powerful ley-energies, and there are no such places in this land.
Arthas: Very well, then. Let's move out.

It's a small change, but would allow the pair to accompany their master as they ride against their former friends and allies in the Order of the Silver Hand. Their role would be minimal, but on a thematic level it works really nicely, and helps to reinforce the idea of how well Arthas treats his loyal soldiers in undeath.

Chapter 2x - The Dreadlord's Convene

This relies upon InsaneMonster following Kam's idea for this interlude where Tichondrius can look into various "portals" to witness events happening in far away places, in the hopes that it would help players understand what is happening in the wider world.

If Falric & Marwyn are added to these missions, then in this interlude Tichondrius would look into a portal and witness Arthas giving the pair orders. Though we would not hear what Arthas says to them, a lot can be conveyed through the use of animations and perhaps narration by a servant of the dreadlord. By doing this, you explain why they aren't with Arthas during the rest of the campaign and do so in a way that feels lore-friendly.

Chapter 7/8 - Dalaran

There's nothing that stops them returning here, but considering at this point the player would have Arthas, Kel'thuzad and potentially also access to Sylvanas and Tichondrius, it feels like it could be overkill. I wouldn't be against them appearing but I can see why they might not be worth showing.

The Frozen Throne

I won't elaborate much on TFT, but I'll say this - somehow Falric & Marwyn return to Icecrown Citadel, so it would feel lore friendly for them to accompany Arthas on his mission to Northrend. By doing this, you would explain why they are present in WotLK.

Additionally you could do things like have them command the undead forces that the Night/Blood Elves fight during their campaigns, possibly losing their bodies in the process (in WotLK they appear as ghosts), or they could die and get raised again as spectres during the Northrend expedition, or that element of lore could be completely and utterly overlooked. It's too early to worry much about this part of the game.

 

[Ethenil]

I for one whoheartedly agree with the inclusion of Falric and Marwyn. Though my dream would be to have them show up in every undead mission, I'd be fine with them only appearing at the start and at the end, using the interlude to explain that they're acting as Arthas's generals and enforcers elsewhere (maybe Silverpine and Hillsbrad) while Arthas goes to Andorhal and Quel'Thalas.

 

[Blazethesage]

Remnant Leaders

During Reign of Chaos we see two named characters as part of the Alliance Remnants (Jaina Proudmoore and Duke Lionheart), but any other hero tied to their factions are random name Paladins, Mountain Kings or Arch Mages. This would be fine (if not boring), but sometimes you get some weird combinations like a Dwarf leading Gilneas' forces. So my suggestion is that we either create new characters to act as leaders for each of the factions, or we liberally use Theramore NPCs from WoW to fill these roles. Either way, making the characters more thematic to who they are leading would be a great immersive change.

This post is over a year old at this point, but nonetheless I just want to point out that we've been beaten to this! With the various campaign changes that were added in 1.33, one of the changes made actually re-names almost all of the generic human, elven, and dwarven heroes through the Reign of Chaos campaigns; in particular, the heroes from Jaina's expedition to Kalimdor are in fact given names of characters later found in Kalimdor in WoW. The Paladin leading the Lordaeron Remnants light blue base in the third orc mission is now named after a Paladin trainer from Theramore, the Mountain King's two appearances are now named after a Dwarf who goes on to become a Gun Vendor, while each of the Archmagi are selected randomly from Archmage Xylem, Archmage Tervosh, and Horace Alder (a mage trainer in Theramore).