Techtree Contest #5 ~ The Voting Process

[Pharaoh_]

-
Themed!

Innovation
Contestants were to create a whole new race for Warcraft III melee gaming.
There were no limitations for this contest, so some of the features may or may not be comparable to the default melee settings.

• First Place: 50 reputation points and a special award icon
  
• Second Place: 35 reputation points
  
• Third Place: 20 reputation points

• GhostThruster
• Wraithling

Gameplay	How fun the gameplay is; does the race itself offer various features to experiment with?	/10
Balance	How easily can the race stand against the default races? Is it particularly easy to wipe out or too hard to confront?	/10
The Legion	Are the roles of the warriors shared in a flat manner, are they getting too repetitive or each of them plays a unique and significant role in the battlegrounds?	/10
Originality	How creative is the race from every aspect, technical & conceptual?	/10
Appearance	Does the final output look good? How well do the models bind with each other, resulting the proper feel of an actual race? Does it look like a simple race-edit?	/10

• 70 % of the winner shall be determined by the contest's appointed judge(s).
• 30 % of the winner shall be determined by the results of a public poll.

As of this contest, there is a new system proposed, that would allow voters to elect the winner, after taking every entry into consideration.

Notes:
• After testing the races, you should be ranking the submissions (between the brackets) along with your comments. The ranking placement should lie next to the contestant's nickname.
• The ranking numbers should vary from 1 to 8, where 8 results the highest ranking, while 1 is the lowest.
• Voters are prompted to vote this way, since they will be possibly taken into consideration for judging future contests of this type.
• Rank every submission; submissions that will not be given a placement will be considered as 1 in the ranking list.
• Your review must concern the current contest's criteria, but feel free to sum up your review into one generic wall of text.

• http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2015613-post466.html (Wazzz)
• http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2015902-post470.html (ashbringer753)
• http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2019528-post519.html (shiiK)
• http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/1981189-post246.html (Dionesiist)
• http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2021681-post556.html (Narogog)
• http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2019908-post526.html (Spinnaker)
• http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2021069-post546.html (67chrome)
• http://www.hiveworkshop.com/forums/2021552-post552.html (Kam)

Voting form

67chrome's entry []

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ashbringer753's entry []

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Dionesiist's entry []

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Kam's entry []

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Narogog's entry []

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shiiK's entry []

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Spinnaker's entry []

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Wazzz's entry []

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Thank you for your time!

 

[Bannar]

First!
Great vote system idea Pharaoh_!
How much time have you spent to delevop that one? :>

 

[Pharaoh_]

Not much, just added a few points. 67chrome motivated me to do so.

 

[Mechanical Man]

Poll without poll? :O

 

[Pharaoh_]

It's a faux poll, revamped!

 

[Bannar]

To be honest most noobs/blind votes are now out. They won't even notice the vote system (so yeah most ppl after entering thread and seeing no poll at all will leave that page in hurry ;<).

Although, now it's more reliable one ;P

 

[Wazzz]

Ahimtar should be disqualified for not abiding by the rules laid down by you, Pharaoh_

[*] Your final submission must be bug free enough to test and play.

[*] If a submission does not follow the map submission rules the creator will be disqualified.

no offense but i really do not want my results being postponed longer than they have to be just because someone who 'knows they aren't going to win' wants to be 'judged'.

 

[Skycraft]

Now this is different
However Ahimtar's race cannot be played so I won't give any feedback on that whatsoever (it should be disqualified).

I might test out the techtrees if I feel like it.
Good luck to all the contestants.

 

[ashbringer753]

do contestants have the right to vote? if yes can we include our entry in the voting process?

 

[Bannar]

Nope, you cant judge your entry, it would basicaly miss the judging point. Would you incluse your weakness? It would help other contestants ;P

 

[Wazzz]

in previous contests we were allowed to vote as contestants, just not for ourselves

i'll be including some contest reviews in this post later on

NOTE: Points are NOT given for effort.

Review: Editing scores for Gameplay to not just be based on what was 'fun', but also how well it fit in with the melee gameplay (very important aspect I was overlooking).

Kam

Gameplay	The gameplay was reasonable, although I found a lot of abilities on each unit made it a little hard to keep up with. Some things such as the Shambler's ability to be invisible near 2 or more corpses sounded like a great implementation, but it did not work for me. Nothing too spectacular imo, but it was still somewhat entertaining. However, I felt as though it was a system similar to mine that wasn't as complete. 3/5 In terms of how well it fit within the melee gameplay, it didn't really at all. Your hero is far too easy to get while units are far too difficult to get. No pop cap as well as no resource cost (mana is not a resource) doesn't fit in. Neither does only requiring workers for lumber while the buildings and upgrades are the only things costing resources. 0/5	3/10
Balance	Basically, the race lacks balance. Any form of it. I liked how the lack of resource cost for units was somewhat compensated by having really expensive buildings and also really long build times (i consider mana regen to be the build time for yours and my system), but the lack of population cost was just ridiculous. Especially when the Sky Barge could also summon units. And you got the Sky Barge for mana only. And the units from it for mana only. And no population cost. You see what I'm saying?	0/10
The Legion	I felt the roles were pretty well defined, although with the unit stats it was hard to properly assess the unit roles when their statistics were so... over the top. Touching on the balance aspect a little more here, the starting unit is a good example of this. The Shambler is your basic footman unit, it has 340 health and did almost 40 damage with each attack. Most of the units had statistics like this, which made unit roles a little difficult to determine, but I felt there wasn't really too much of a clash in terms of concept.	7/10
Originality	The race itself was pretty original, I am sure you didn't actually steal the idea for the system from me, and even if you did, all the other ideas you implemented more than made up for that. Very original spell ideas, I liked a lot of your concepts.	8/10
Appearance	The models did bind relatively well together. The only thing I would criticise would be that it seems a little high res for a melee race, but that's neither here nor there. A lot of great skins in use, just a couple seemed a little out of place.	9/10
Overall	I liked most of the ideas behind the race, but the implementation needs improvement. It is obvious you have some very good ideas, but I believe that you need to focus more on figuring out how to make them balanced. I'm sure if you had joined earlier you would have had more time for figuring out such matters, though.	27/50

67Chrome

Gameplay	Although a little difficult to manage at first, once I figured out ho to make things work within the race I really liked your ideas! Although I'm not keen on the idea of boosting a single unit and such to a higher level, I do appreciate how you went further than this to implement other aspects around it, such as having an ability that requires a particular level of the unit (Devour on the Wyrm). But really, the system itself didn't 'wow' me. In the sense of being something new and unusual, it did 'wow' me, but in terms of being practical and good in an RTS environment, I'm not a fan. What I AM a fan of, however, is your abilities. The way you pulled off units like the Hydra with it's Multiple Heads ability is beautiful imo. Not a balanced feature, but this section is about gameplay! My only real criticism is that there are a LOT of abilities to keep track of on each individual unit. It is an eyesore. If it was anything but melee I would encourage it. But as far as critical points go, is it really bad to have too much stuff? At worst it just means you have to cut down a little bit. 5/5 [Fitting in with the melee game] - Your ideas don't fit in entirely too well with the melee gameplay. Some aspects, such as how the Slaves work, fits in very well, but levelling up your units with them doesn't. Tier 1 units are very expensive (75 lumber for your first unit), but the problem is that it's so powerful (not just statistically but ability wise, too) that it kind of really needs to be expensive. Nevertheless, it does fit in to a degree, although Heroes having a starting ability and requiring 6 food instead of 5 on account of said ability doesn't really fit in too well, either. 2/5	7/10
Balance	WELL. balance. HMMM. I have a few critical points as well as suggestions I would like to make. First of all, Slaves cost the same amount as any other unit. HOWEVER, you get weak units that cost a lot of money. You make these stronger by sacrificing the slaves. Some levels cost extra food for your unit, while others don't. I noticed your starting Drow units from the Garrison do not cost any additional food as you level them up. In terms of abilities, you have a lot of abilities (i like smart sentences, don't you?). More to the point, each unit does a lot of shit. A LOT. They are all potentially one man armies. All the Hydra has to do is take friendly damage from a swarm of workers and it will get permanent double attack in no time. With regeneration upgrades it will restore health pretty quickly (highest level of Hydra gets 1600 HP, 1% health regen means it regenerates 16 health per second). Heroes can kill workers for free experience. WHAT THE HELL. That is REALLY imbalanced imo, as this encourages players to stay in their base and they will STILL level their heroes up at a greater rate than their opponent. Build a second Town Hall in base, just keep training your hero up. Also, Wyrms deal Chaos damage. That's silly. [Revisit] Revisiting the race I notice in World Editor every unit has potential to be a Slave (from the other races). But I do not notice the system implemented for capturing these units ingame. If indeed you are able to use enemy units as Slaves in a fair way and I am just not seeing where the ability is, then you will get +1 for balance. Other than that, revisiting this race confirms my ideals that it is so imbalanced I can't really give it any points.	0/10
The Legion	Roles were reasonably well defined, as there weren't too many unit types, but definitely no lack of unit roles. Basically, you have the Archer, the Caster, the Flyer, the Tank, the Meatshield (fancy term for Tank), and the... Basilisk. Yes, the Meatshield and the Tank have a clash of roles. Here's why. The Meatshield is a term for a unit which basically absorbs damage while not necessarily dealing much damage back. This is so archers and other ranged units can sit back safely and deal the real damage. The Tank, on the other hand, is a term for a unti which basically absorbs... yeah it's the same thing. Unit roles are also a little harder to keep unique when you include more abilities on each unit. Your Hydras (i love talking about your hydras, don't i?), for example, have the abilities to make it an ideal tank. And an ideal attacker. That is, when you gain double attack speed, your DPS will double. Obviously. Which is good in terms of 'hey the more hits this unit takes the stronger it gets', but bad in terms of 'my tank unit is demolishing this army i no longer need ranged units for the damage'. The other reason I'm bringing up the Hydras is because it is a perfect example of a unit having abilities based on lore over gameplay. Same for the Basilisk. I love and encourage the use of lore when making abilities for creatures of mythology, but you must be sure to make their abilities balanced and practical for their unit role. For example, instead of additional attack speed, the Multiple Heads ability could improve Defense or Health, and instead of being based on taking damage, more so dealing damage. Doesn't make much sense in terms of the dealing damage thing, but it works! Basically I find that the more abilities you add to each and every unit, the more and more blurred the unit roles can become. This is what I'm seeing here. Then there's the Fight/Feed system. That blurs the roles even more. This section is not your strong suit. However, you get away with it a bit by not having that many different unit types. So on the most part, they do compliment each other. Dusk Knights and Hydras share their roles on the most part, but the key difference is the Dusk Knight can serve as fast attack as well. Focusing most on that for the Dusk Knight could have been a better choice.	8/10
Originality	Let me see... the race itself reaks of unoriginality. Drow have always been seen with creatures such as Hydras and Basilisks (the Basilisk is a new one, but same policy), as cruel slave masters and as having Sacrifice. So that is unoriginal. Aspects such as unit abilities are also unoriginal, taken straight from lore. The Hydra and the Basilisk are great examples of this. In terms of gameplay, the race is very original (with the exception of unit abilities). That is, I have never seen this sytem implemented in an RTS environment (with the sacrifice of units to gain strength). Of course, it is very experimental, and I would suggest using alternative ideas that I may implement myself in my future endeavours, but the system itself is original. Conceptually the race is not unique. From a technical standpoint, it is very unique. In most aspects.	4/10
Appearance	Bound very well together, nothing did not fit in with the race. VERY well done.	10/10
Overall	From an unprofessional standpoint, I found the race very fun to play around with and loved the ideas behind everything you did for the race, including the unoriginal implementations (hey, just because this theme is done to death for the drow doesn't mean i don't love it!). From a more professional standpoint, the race is unbalanced, it reaks of unoriginality, but looks very good. In terms of appearance, it has zazz. In terms of new ideas and fun stuff to play around, it also has zazz. In terms of gameplay in a balanced environment... no. It does not have zazz. Except for having a basic idea of unit roles (Hydra was the core of my criticism on the most part despite being my favourite implementation). Love the ideas, love you, dislike the implementation from a professional standpoint (BUT STILL LOVE PLAYING IT for awhile).	29/50

Spinnaker

Gameplay	The gameplay was reasonable, there were new ideas to play around with to an extent, the ideas behind some of the abilities made for a relatively entertaining race. This race is very 'melee' worthy, in that while it offers new features to play around with, it doesn't stray so far from the melee game that it's just ridiculous. Although some ideas for the units weren't completely satisfactory, I found it made for entertaining gameplay in a melee environment. Having the same attack type on most units got quite a bit dull, though. 3/5 This race fits in with the melee style of gameplay very well. The way you created a new building system that is 100% unique and yet fits in with the gameplay is, in my opinion, very well done, and the only real change it makes to the melee gameplay is that you cannot get buildings while producing a worker. But not the other way around, of course, so it is not a hinderance. 5/5	8/10
Balance	The ideas behind the unit statistics are somewhat balanced. I feel as though you used a DPS calculator to determine the statistics of units, which is always a good thing. However, there are 6 units using Normal attack type. Of course, one of them was set to 'Spells' attack type, but even if that works (not sure how that attack type works but as far as I am aware it did not) that still leaves 5 units with the same attack type. This is an issue, as is having only 1 siege attack type and only 2 weak magic attackers (without compensation, of course, such as a Chaos attack or an alternative form of 'siege' unit. My race implements both these aspects). At first thought the Nether Dragon cost way too much, but then realised that it takes 80% less damage from piercing attacks. Would say that's op but it seems you took that into account with the food cost. Just not the resource cost. Other abilities seem to need some different implementations, such as Haste, and I'm not overly fond on having 5 units using mana (current melee races use 3 at least, 4 at most, keeping in mind this isn't really a part of a system), as it makes anti-caster units very powerful against this race (such as Spellbreakers with Feedback and the Demon Hunter with Mana Burn). However, that aspect can still work. Having so many targettable abilities can be a little difficult to manage, too, but I felt it just meant it was a little more of a micro-focused. Also didn't feel as though 2 de-buffing spells were necessary, but the Orcs did it.	6/10
The Legion	Roles were reasonably well thought out, but left something to be desired in the implementation. Having so many units with Normal attack type, for one, lead to there being a lack of certain roles. Like I said, the ideas behind them were, in my opinion, good in a lot of the units (one exception would be the Melee caster when you have so many melee units as it is), but it just did not come out in the final product.	5/10
Originality	Concept wise, very unoriginal. On every unit and building I see you used the name given by the modeller. The Faceless ones follow Warcraft lore, which is highly unoriginal in my opinion. 0/5 for that part. From a technical standpoint, however, your building system was very unique as well as some of your ability implementations (your Charge ability is, in my opinion, a different implementation of an otherwise overused ability idea. I have never seen it done like this before). 4/5 for that.	4/10
Appearance	Models bound well together as they were pretty much created as a pack for the race itself (hence why 0 points for originality on the concept). Only criticism would be the Sacrificial Pit model doesn't fit in the best but it fits in a lot better than a lot of options and the implementation of the Faceless Ones birth animation does help.	10/10
Overall	The idea behind the race was good. The idea behind coming up with names for your units was non-existant. However I can see English is not your first language, so if you were to create another custom race or something of the likes it might pay to have someone to revise over it. A lot of issues, a lot of good points, ultimately a very melee-worthy race if the afore mentioned issues are tended to. I do hope you focus more on this sort of stuff in future instead of arguing invalid points.	33/50

Dionesiist

Gameplay	I found your race to be entertaining in a lot of aspects, but there were also many aspects that weren't all that 'fresh'. I think you know what I mean by the latter as I am referring to your spells. You used a lot of ingame spells without actually changing them around. I am not against this, as there's a lot of ingame spells that aren't used in the melee races. However, you used some of those, which is never a great thing, and you also implemented a damaging spell on one of your units. I saw some interesting takes on some new ideas, however, such as Persist and Execture, which is always a good thing. Your core idea for the race is what really sells it for me. The idea of creating your units from your worker is a cool one in my opinion, and it is very fun to play around with as it is essentially a different take on the Zerg system (replace Larvae with your worker unit). 2/5 Yeah your race fits in with the melee gameplay very, VERY well, and you brought in new ideas that actually work in my opinion (SOME MAY SAY A TIER 1.5 FLYER IS AN ABOMINATION BUT IT CAN WORK). 5/5	7/10
Balance	Unit statistics weren't horrendously op, neither were the abilities they were given. With an exception. The Infernal Knight only costs 3 Food. It should really cost something more like 4 or 5. Higher even as it has a chance to instantly kill an enemy unit with Execute (does this effect heroes?). SOME MAY SAY HAVING A FLYING UNIT WITH CHAOS DAMAGE AS YOUR TIER 1.5 UNIT IS OP BUT I SAY OTHERWISE providing it implements Light armor instead of Medium (to make it weak VS tier 1 ranged units). Otherwise a very unique way of creating a tier 1.5 unit. I figure this is a bug that needs fixing as I do see the Infernal Knight upgrade, but you don't actually need it to get Infernal Knights. Requiring upgrades for units is an interesting implementation BUT they are far too expensive atm. Also you shouldn't make the Hellgaoler require an upgrade, you got them to buy the building so they should be able to get access to that unit straight away. However there is also the issue that once you get the upgrade you will be able to get that unit without actually requiring any buildings other than your main. That's a problem. Workers cost 2 food. That's not good. They also cost quite a bit of money in comparison to others. They don't need that. They also have 200 mana cap. They don't use mana. They don't need that. The rest was pretty well done, even the spells you implemented were pretty reasonable (EXCEPT FOR EXECUTION unless it doesn't effect heroes).	3/10
The Legion	I find it interesting how someone who complains about how your race is all derpy has such interesting and fresh implementations of unit roles. They could have been performed better, but there is great legion within the race. There are a few bad points here and there that were mentioned in the Balance section, and having 2 units with Chaos attack can blue the roles a little bit (the Phasebat doesn't seem to have an overly outstanding role) but other than that awesome job.	9/10
Originality	Concept wise, I'd say it's original to a degree. It isn't your typical run of the mill 'Demons out the Demon Gate From Hell' kind of lore, it's more themed around 'Phaselings are the Gates From Hell'. Which is only slightly different. However, the evolution aspect was pretty cool (Hellgaoler evolving is a relatively new feature in terms of lore implemented into the RTS genre). I could go into the art being more original, but this is not that kind of contest. 2/5 From a technical aspect, the way in which the race functions is unique. The spells and crap are not overly unique. Fortunately those don't count for much in the scaling here. 4/5	6/10
Appearance	You created the models. According to your own theme. You used only your models, and they fit well together TO AN EXTENT. The Paragon, for example, felt a little out of place, and so did the little thingies that it summons. The buildings fit surprisingly well together.	8/10
Overall	Interesting ideas followed up by a lack of confidence in your abilities to come up with more interesting ideas for spells and such. I am indeed sure that if you had more confidence in your abilities to develop a techtree, you would sweep this entire contest. So yes, it is a good race, I don't care what you say, the only problem is that you handed it up and abandoned it too early.	33/50

 

[Ahimtar]

Ahimtar should be disqualified for not abiding by the rules laid down by you, Pharaoh_
no offense but i really do not want my results being postponed longer than they have to be just because someone who 'knows they aren't going to win' wants to be 'judged'.

lol, why are you that hurried? at least we are going to see if the new voting system works (in the old one i could get quite a few votes for design or sth, in this one i guess i wont...)

also, there were a lot of unfinished entries in the last contests, like that last minigame mapping contest which kobas won, or for example minigame mapping contest 3 - TDA´s entry was almost unplayable, you just got some base idea from playing it, and he was competing and nobody cared...
i think theres not much difference

 

[Wazzz]

you want to know the difference between that and this?

how about the rules we've quoted time and time again?
the rules that state if your submition does not follow Map Submission Rules, the creator is to be disqualified?
and don't give us the 'oh but i put time in it and i'd like this and that', if you can't follow the rules then why should we give two shits?

ADDITIONAL: also it made me die a little inside when you compared yourself to kobas. kobas is a name known to many for his skills in mapping. i can't even remember who you are as i type this.

 

[ashbringer753]

oh yes, because rep is a clear indicator of skill.

mmmh

 

[Ahimtar]

you want to know the difference between that and this?
how about the rules we've quoted time and time again?
the rules that state if your submition does not follow Map Submission Rules, the creator is to be disqualified?

do i really have to write it again? "TDA´s entry was almost unplayable" - it was supposed to be some knight race, but you could just run few metres, without any intro, description or anything, it was clearly an uplayable wip. it competed and everything was ok
how is a race, in which you cannot build but you can do everything else different to that?

ADDITIONAL: also it made me die a little inside when you compared yourself to kobas. kobas is a name known to many for his skills in mapping. i can't even remember who you are as i type this.

LOL, i compared myself to kobas, because both of us made an unplayable entry, not because of our skills...



anyway, screw it. i PMd pharaoh about removing my entry, i dont want to compete anymore, my work just makes you more problems and wastes your time.

dont await any other entries from me in on-coming contests.

why didnt i followed it yet...

 

[Dionesiist]

Just. Give. Up.

 

[Pharaoh_]

you want to know the difference between that and this?

how about the rules we've quoted time and time again?
the rules that state if your submition does not follow Map Submission Rules, the creator is to be disqualified?
and don't give us the 'oh but i put time in it and i'd like this and that', if you can't follow the rules then why should we give two shits?

ADDITIONAL: also it made me die a little inside when you compared yourself to kobas. kobas is a name known to many for his skills in mapping. i can't even remember who you are as i type this.

Wazzz, you become offensive. If you indeed consider Ahimtar's entry as a WiP then you obviously shouldn't feel intimidated at all, however, your constant quoting and passion to be rules-obedient speak of the other way around.

Just because -Kobas- is well known, it doesn't justify anything at all. The purpose of this new voting system is to deflect possible voting, based on the reliability and reputation of the contestants. What you say brings this issue back though.

As for Ahimtar, the rules are indeed clear, it's just a contest that required loads of work and even extension after extension, a few came up with full entries, that's why I played it blind. For the sake of fairness though, I will remove it.

• No works in progress.

You may now start voting... normally.

@Ahimtar, I wish it didn't upset you that much and continue working in contests. I am sorry it ended up like this.

 

[Bannar]

Good response Pharaoh_

Before spamming/flooding/flaming/raging we with pm/vm and etc again, in case I posted something - I just came to say good luck to the contestants.

 

[Narogog]

67Chrome [9]

your race is very fun to play there are lots of cool systems in it. Balance wise the Hydra's multi head ability can be overpowered, you can use your own units to attack it and level it with out damaging the hydra. Aperance everything fits in and you have great graphics. However the user interface is a little overwhelming, all of that purple/blue

edit next review

Wazzz[5]

you have the demons as a very technological race, your build method from the demon gates is pretty cool. They would have been cooler if you had made the power generators do more, like powering their towers causing them to do more damage etc... any way still a cool race

ashbringer753[4]

Your race was a little overpowered, i was able to defeat a computer with three wardens, a hobilar, a trebuchet, and Morrigin Devotee, but other then balancing issues, it was a cool race and fun to play.

 

[Pharaoh_]

You are supposed to rank every submission

 

[Wazzz]

Wazzz, you become offensive. If you indeed consider Ahimtar's entry as a WiP then you obviously shouldn't feel intimidated at all, however, your constant quoting and passion to be rules-obedient speak of the other way around.

You seem to forget circumstance, perhaps because a lot has occured. My reasons are:
a) Past contests have taken over 2 months for results to come out, so why would we waste time considering races where even the creator says they know they aren't going to win?
b) To allow the race would promote that being bitchy gets you your own way.

He has been told time and time again why this contest is different to the mini-mapping contest. He has been told time and time again that it is in the rules. Both he and Spinnaker. Yet he brought it up again, even after saying he 'doesn't care if he gets disqualified'.

What people need to learn is that bitching about what's happened in the past does not work. Also, people need to stop comparing themself to Kobas, as he is a highly skills map-maker.

I wasn't even passionate about the rules until these two users started bitching about how an unplayable submition should not be excluded from the contest, despite how much it wastes our time when the creator says they know it won't win. It being in the rules was a good point to raise. Yet no matter how many times I raised it, they kept ignoring it.

Just because -Kobas- is well known, it doesn't justify anything at all. The purpose of this new voting system is to deflect possible voting, based on the reliability and reputation of the contestants. What you say brings this issue back though.

I never said his fame was the justification of terms. I said he is known by everyone for his skills. We all know he is a very good map-maker.

Anyway, my review is a WiP atm, as it's only been done for two users so far, but here it is.

 

[Bannar]

@Wazzz, full review response.
Thanks for review - thats at first. Now:

In ladder, races there are up to 4 Normal weapon type.
Nether Drake - I've just noticed that -.- It should be Magic as all large air units do but honestly, in Poland 'Spells' and 'Magic' are written basicaly very similar, plus explanation of that word in Poland is basicaly the same. It's just missclick ;/
Guardian, Veteran, Blind Beast, Night Flyer - just obvious reason why Normal type.
Monoculus - magic attack just didn't fit him, plus I wanted to make something differend, like Druids in NE (one of them attack/weapon type Normal). Yeah, I was willing to implement more 'melee' units in case I did not had any other idea for range and models I have choosen just weren't the best for mass range army.

This race is made for micro-focues ppl. Reason one: I got like 150 apm and I just love clicking ;S (sorry guys for this ;< )
Most spells/ideas go around 'summoned' type - unique way of dealing with opponent; and if I added anything that involves auto cast dispells..
..it would completely ruin balance.
Although, Warlock got one auto-cast spell and two AoE so it's not hard to control him. Their spells feature complety innovate healing-way too.
Veterans - charge is powerfull because of stun; at first I implemented something like Sc2 zaelot's charge and it was op too.. Haste is just click+buff -> not hard either.
Monoculus - ward is AoE, rest are micro intensive but.. those abilities are just powerfull. Thats why Evocation got even 2sec cast time.
Some are just fun to cast yourself - like Night flyer's contamination ;>

There are two siege units actually. They got just differend meaning. One is Sabotues, for typical tanking/deffense breaking (with siege aura it rocks). Second one is Fred - his job is to take from distance large amount of heavy units, like: taurens, knights, abos. Something like Chimaera, but with greater range + it's faster/smaller/cheaper.

I'm unsure about 'lack of certain roles' in case I tried to make every unit have it's narrow place, although situation is similar to ladder: when you move t3; guardians should be replaced with veterans as ghuls are by abos. Blind beast are good all game long, even that their armor/hp sucks, they got nice spell+hp reg combo what mixed with monoculus/beholders rocks. Nether drakes in such case can overkill your opponent.

Again; I think Fallen as union of underground beast + faceless onces + forgotten ones isn't 100% unorginal. And yeah all the names are there to "thank those who made that stuff" - it's just my way to say 'thanks' to them.

Thanks once again for review, Wazzz.
I'll try to review your entries as soon as possible guys.

 

[Wazzz]

oh that's right, i noticed your Void Ward was exactly the same as my Energy Disruptor idea!
and i know i mentioned my idea on the thread O:
but i also managed to get it to work with it classified as a Ward, which was important to me as it means it won't add them when you click + drag over units for selection
a very odd fix i had indeed, check it out when you get to mine ^^

welllll technically it's not something different if it's exactly like something else (reference to monoculous being different like the NE Druid of the Claw), but it is a little more unique
However, the reason it works well with the Night Elves is because they really do need the extra melee unit, and it does become a tanky beast in Bear Form

But yes, I felt it was a very good effort and I do hope you'll join in on the next Techtree Contest ^^

oh yeah, when i say 'siege units', i mean units good at destroying buildings. Generally implementing a Siege type attack. I too only had one unit using Siege, but I implemented a unit with a similar idea to your FRED (that is, it was artillery but didn't deal Siege attack damage), but you could upgrade it to deal Chaos damage (so it had potential to tear anything apart from long range if left unchecked, but not excelling against anything in particular). Then, of course, there was the Horror, basically a Goblin Sapper unit that dealt less damage and was significantly cheaper, but had a bit more bulk (help it close in on targets)

 

[General Frank]

My try at voicing my opinions.

67Chrome[8]

The units were pretty cool and well designed. The art is just fantastic and the mechanics (wall system and slaves!) is flawlessly.

Kam[7]

Well balanced, eye-candy and cool to play. The art is pretty impressive.

Spinnaker[6]

Cthulu calls! No, seriously, I enjoyed playing this race and it was very cool. A well rounded race.

Dionesiist[5]

The art part is the best on the race and I love the concept of evolving units. Reminds me of Warlords Battlecry.

shiik[4]

"Just another demon race" is not enough to describe it, because it features cool units, which may be a bit over powered, but oh well they're demons.

ashbringer[3]

The concept is pretty cool and like the design of the units. But the main building is pretty colourless. I know you don't have to upgrade it and stuff, but hell, it is the main building and t my extend it should look cool and fancy (as much it allows it)

Wazz[2]

Cyber-tech-demon thingies. Crazy concept and party good, but I could have imagined much better execution of the concept.

Narogog[1]

Well, it wastoo much micro and it was really hard to counter other races in the middle stage of the game.

 

[Bannar]

I dont belive you Frankser that you review those races so quickly :>
For me it's pain in asssssssssss

 

[General Frank]

I had 2,5 free days from uni. And so I did.

 

[Bannar]

Woah. It's great that you managed to use that time for checking our entries
After so many fights against CPUs, whats your score? All games won? ;<

 

[General Frank]

Not all. But I haven't played much against CPU players. I head some friends here so, there was no problem.

 

[Ahimtar]

....................
Also, people need to stop comparing themself to Kobas, as he is a highly skills map-maker.
.....

ROFLMAO.
edit: dont get me wrong, i agree that kobas is a great mapmaker, im not laughing about that.

@Ahimtar, I wish it didn't upset you that much and continue working in contests. I am sorry it ended up like this.

thanks for removing me, ill see later if imma join something, but its not likely to happen.

 

[Pharaoh_]

New judge added! Wraithling.

 

[Bannar]

I'm realy glad that experienced, 2 times techtree champion joined contest.
But this time he is judging

 

[Wazzz]

ah good, wraithling will be great ^^

personally, for the public polls, i think a certain level of 'depth' needs to be implemented with the descriptions

but the problem is i'm questioning how many people we're going to be able to get to vote in a public poll with that sort of system, and getting people to vote in the old system caused problems in itself, which gives me thinking that perhaps instead of having a public poll, we could aim for a larger team of judges (for future reference)? After all we all have our specialties and the key idea behind making the public polls like this (as far as i am aware) is to eliminate the 'i went for the race with the most custom art' sort of thing (hence appearance only being one section).

so i believe it's either:
1) make it compulsory to do votes in my style, which is the best way for the best results, but we probably won't get as many voters (which is fine in my opinion, better have worthwhile votes than inexperienced ones)
2) bring back the old system (which is worse in my opinion, as it's a step backwards and will get a lot of votes that are not well thought out)
3) replace public polls with a larger team of judges (also fine in my opinion)

 

[67chrome]

New judge added! Wraithling.

Woot!

Anyways, I'm a little burnt out from completing my race, it will probably take me a bit to get around to testing the entries. Still, I've got to reserve a space to vote on them, right?

Also, if the posts in this thread are meant to be votes cast, perhaps this thread should be cleared of any posts not directly pertaining to voting on an entry (including this one, if that's the case, there wouldn't be a need to reserve a spot if voting is all the thread has).

 

[GhostThruster]

DAMNIT WRAITHLING. How dare you steal ma thunda?!

 

[Bannar]

Wazzz; I think that poll part should always be here because it's fun and entertaining part for other community users ;<

Although, yeah probably leaving this new poll system gonna be better for reasonable and fair judging.

One judge per entry please! ;>

 

[Wazzz]

'fun and entertaining'?
...no?

that's a ridiculous reason when public polls have, for most contests, lead to (at most) reviews written out with very little thought

however, i do have an alternative suggestion which does employ the entertainment aspect for the public and will also keep the contestants satisfied that the choices are being made by the right people.

a team of judges will be hard to come by, and even if it's done it will make the contest atmosphere a little dry for the public. it will work to a great extent, yes, but there may not be as much support from the public for such contests.

however, judges could 'cut' certain public decisions based on the depth of the review or what actually motivated their decisions. in the case of 'reviewers' only really focusing on one aspect, for example, the opinion could be nullified as it does not touch on all the key points of the techtrees themself, making the public opinion a mockery.

after all, what people in the public need to realise is that it's not necessarily what their favourite race is that should win, it's what falls within the guidelines the best.

however in a lot of real life contests, there is nothing but a judge's panel and that works out fine for public interest.

 

[Bannar]

So; meaby restrict the public part a bit.
-each contest has few section in which given entry is judged at;

What I suggest is that public would be able to vote only for one section, for example only 'playability' or 'aestetic'. Basically given section would have 50% from judes and 50% from public leaving the rest section only to judges.
However, such method would require at least 3 judges participating.

Or.. judges post their review (without points) open, here on forum and then the poll starts (yeah, first judges review; then poll, even that it would be delayed quite a bit). Public would have to consider the judging done by judges in their opinions to actually accept given vote.

 

[ashbringer753]

My try at voicing my opinions.

67Chrome[8]

The units were pretty cool and well designed. The art is just fantastic and the mechanics (wall system and slaves!) is flawlessly.

Kam[7]

Well balanced, eye-candy and cool to play. The art is pretty impressive.

Spinnaker[6]

Cthulu calls! No, seriously, I enjoyed playing this race and it was very cool. A well rounded race.

Dionesiist[5]

The art part is the best on the race and I love the concept of evolving units. Reminds me of Warlords Battlecry.

shiik[4]

"Just another demon race" is not enough to describe it, because it features cool units, which may be a bit over powered, but oh well they're demons.

ashbringer[3]

The concept is pretty cool and like the design of the
units. But the main building is pretty colourless. I know you don't have to upgrade it and stuff, but hell, it is the main building and t my extend it should
look cool and fancy (as much it allows it)

Wazz[2]

Cyber-tech-demon thingies. Crazy concept and party good, but I could have imagined much better execution of the concept.

Narogog[1]

Well, it wastoo much micro and it was really hard to counter other races in the middle stage of the game.

Shouldnt contestants be judged following the template in the first post. Such basic judgments shouldnt be counted in the process

 

[Wazzz]

Shouldnt contestants be judged following the template in the first post. Such basic judgments shouldnt be counted in the process

Yeah, that's pretty much the problem I forsee coming from a lot of public voters.

So; meaby restrict the public part a bit.
-each contest has few section in which given entry is judged at;

What I suggest is that public would be able to vote only for one section, for example only 'playability' or 'aestetic'. Basically given section would have 50% from judes and 50% from public leaving the rest section only to judges.
However, such method would require at least 3 judges participating.

Or.. judges post their review (without points) open, here on forum and then the poll starts (yeah, first judges review; then poll, even that it would be delayed quite a bit). Public would have to consider the judging done by judges in their opinions to actually accept given vote.

Imo, that would a great way to do it. That way the more artistically inclined can vote on the appearance (as long as they keep in mind that not all of us can actually model/skin and count in that we used what resources we had to the best of our ability *stares at frank*), the more gamer type can comment on the balance and gameplay, etc. etc. (i believe the rest speaks for itself).

I'm also all for everyone can vote for everything, taking everything into account, but ommiting unsatisfactory responses. A little more for the latter than the former, but both are good and we are still learning how to make public polls work.

 

[Bannar]

We should create new thread for that or talk to mods in case as someone said already, this thread gets all but votes actually

To be honest I'm so curoius why such conversation haven't been started long time ago.

 

[General Frank]

Shouldnt contestants be judged following the template in the first post. Such basic judgments shouldnt be counted in the process

Instead of bitching around like some of the people here I actually took my time and tested those. If my service is not needed then it won't. Should not be my problem.

Why not make 5 polls for every section?

 

[Ahimtar]

... id also suggest some sort of table on the first post or something, which will show overall rating of the maps, as we cant see who is winning by now clearly, we have to manually find all the ratings and count them up.

 

[ashbringer753]

I'm not saying you shouldn't vote, in fact i thank you for the time you spent in order to help others, you have the right to say your opinion. I'm just saying that if you want to vote, it is favorable to do it in the way expressed by the first post aka pharaoh_'s template.

 

[Wazzz]

or in a wall of text that covers all the areas

according to pharaoh_, this is how ya do it right:
touch me baby

oh yeah, @Frankster, people may be bitchin' but your bitchin' about the bitchin' is in the same boat
for you see, i have only 3 reviews so far, but they are really indepth and i do put a lot of thought into them
so using the 'time' argument doesn't really cut it for me, especially when i'm not sure my votes even count in the public poll

 

[Pharaoh_]

The voting system is demanding as it is. Public voters engage themselves with the role of a judge, but I don't expect them to perfectly synchronize their reviews with the full judging criteria.

A ranking followed by some comments is ideal already :]

 

[Wazzz]

not precisely when the comments seem to focus around one area anyway

which is why i'm thinking that what spinnerak and frankster suggested would work where people can vote in their preferred areas
judges could remove votes with comments that just don't make any sense or aren't related to the field

 

[Pharaoh_]

This is not the Maps' section voting system, where a moderator can rate the voter's review. People are bored of making structured reviews. You should be happy that they at least take their time to even vote without the presence of a poll ;p

 

[Wazzz]

well yes, this is primarily for future reference

alas the folly of public polls. i still maintain a panel of judges omitting the public is better. public can still play races and comment on them and shit, but yeah just have it count for nothing... or maybe 10% idk XD

 

[Pharaoh_]

but yeah just have it count for nothing... or maybe 10% idk XD

Great motivation for the public <3

 

[Wazzz]

i know right? XD

but yeah if the public wasn't prone to making silly decisions then there wouldn't be a problem