[Discussion] Suitable engines for top-down ARPG games

[bhusta]

At first I didn't want to start a new thread because of my issue being similar to envengers'. But since he already made a decision for his project and his project is a different genre as mine, I don't want to high jack his thread.

As the title says, I want to design a top-down ARPG compareable to diablo or path of exile but not server based (I mean not always online; more like Titan Quest).

Unity 3D looks promissing even if it hasn't that much blockbuster titles as UDK. (I only found Need for Speed World).
But is it one of the best choices for this genre?

Most companies have their own engine for this kind of genre but when I saw this video I thought Unity 3D would be the best choice for me.

But my knowledge of programming is limited because I mostly coded in GUI and now in Wurst. These environments have a lot of pre-made resources implemented which are very simple to use. So before I get blinded by visuals I want to hear other opinions first.

This thread is meant to be a general discussion for top-down ARPG suitable engines.

 

[Metalbear]

A dud ... who never coded before ...
Do you realise that 3D needs more coding then 2D? Its not just about the drawing in x, y, and z. You need to make movements and rations and pathfindings in 3 frikin dimensions! And thats definitely just the beginning.

I still dont understand why people keep rushin in makin "der best MMORPG 3D EVA!", instead of tryin to make super mario and realise how hard it is to be made. Super mario requires you to make movement to left and right only, but the gravity and landing engine will definitely be tricky for newcomers. As well the smashing of enemies, so on. Do you really think that such a simple game takes simple skills?!

If you want my advice, then start with Game Maker 8 (NOT STUDIO!). You will be teached in there about basic things of programming and pretty advanced things about game design. Game Maker has even some simple 3D to learn ..., but till you get to there will pass lota time.

When you feel that you are ready for 3D - then jump to Unity 3D or such. GameMaker's 3D is not much good for serious 3D projects!

 

[bhusta]

You are talking nonsense Metalbear.
I coded before and I don't want to create a Super Mario rip off.
The topic is about ARPG games. I never mentioned MMORPG games.

A person who can't read should not post somthing.

 

[Kanadaj]

bhusta, Metalbear is not talking nonsense. You have only used GUI and Wurst so far - that's a nice start, that means you have a grasp on how coding works. But, first of all you should start with smaller things - it's not just about MMOs, technically any game is hard to make. It takes a huge amount of knowledge and patience, not to mention the amount of resources you need. Don't forget, that even if you are using a game engine, you are only getting a universal thing, and requires waaay more work than something like a WC3 map. But hopefully you are already aware that you have to program most of the things from scratch, including unit movements and such.

Even though this, I want to help you, so here are a few things to note:

1) Before going head-first into games, start playing around with C#. It's a powerful (although not super-optimized) language, but developing a game with superficial knowledge of C# and the .NET Framework is a suicide. You want a few months of experience working with Java or C# before digging in. Start looking up things like Lambda functions, inheritance, attributes and data serialization in C#. You will need them.

2)Engines:
-Unreal Development Kit: If you go with UDK, you are doomed to use the UnrealScript. UDK doesn't accept anything else, and it means that you have the least possible amount of control.
-Unity: Pretty powerful with a wide access it's the features even in the free version. You can use C#, UnityScript and Java Script with Unity.
-CryEngine: Optimized for C++, the CryEngine is an extremely powerful engine - but I can only advise it for experienced programmers, since we are talking about C++, something not made for small fries.

3)If you want an ARPG with your skill, forget multiplayer totally for now. It makes a project a few times bigger then it originally would be, since you have to (usually) work with either a different server and client, or prepare the client for both hosting and joining other clients. And of course there are all those network calls. Making something offline is just so much easier - and I guess it's not just me.

4)There are genre specialised engines - for aRPG there are things like Dungeonforge and Engine001. You should google them (both of the ones mentioned and general terms for aRPG engine)

@Metalbear: if it's a 3D ARPG, it sure contains 3D models, but don't forget that it can be 2D in means of data like WC3, so that makes it easier.

 

[bhusta]

I shouldn't write that sentence about me using mostly gui in the past and now wurst.
that was missleading. I should have known that you would replace mostly with only.

I am aware that I have to practice a language again and that it takes more then a warcraft 3 map.

Thank you Kanadj,

okay so Unity stays as my favorite after all.
Nevertheless I will have a look at Dungeonforge and Engine001.
That's what I wanted to hear

 

[GhostWolf]

-Unity: Pretty powerful with a wide access it's the features even in the free version. You can use C#, UnityScript and Java Script with Unity.

Never used Unity, but I am pretty sure UnityScript is what you call JavaScript, and it's in fact not JavaScript, the syntax just resembles it.

@Metalbear: if it's a 3D ARPG, it sure contains 3D models, but don't forget that it can be 2D in means of data like WC3, so that makes it easier.

Since when is WC3 2D?

As to the thread, a lovely pink lady on this site brought to my attention this extension for Unity. While it costs a little, it seems pretty awesome, and I am not one that tends to say that things are awesome.
It might be worth a look.

 

[bhusta]

Never used Unity, but I am pretty sure UnityScript is what you call JavaScript, and it's in fact not JavaScript, the syntax just resembles it.

Unity itself is written in C++. But one can code in different languages like the languages Kanadaj listed.

Since when is WC3 2D?

I am sure he wanted to say that the game itself is 3D but for example most spells work only in 2D.

As to the thread, a lovely pink lady on this site brought to my attention this extension for Unity. While it costs a little, it seems pretty awesome, and I am not one that tends to say that things are awesome.
It might be worth a look.

Whoa, I'll definitely take a closer look at that.

 

[Kanadaj]

Never used Unity, but I am pretty sure UnityScript is what you call JavaScript, and it's in fact not JavaScript, the syntax just resembles it.

It has both JavaScript and UnityScript right now. I think Java came not so long ago and it originally didn't support Java.

Since when is WC3 2D?

As to the thread, a lovely pink lady on this site brought to my attention this extension for Unity. While it costs a little, it seems pretty awesome, and I am not one that tends to say that things are awesome.
It might be worth a look.

WC3 is 2D (2.5D actually). Even though the graphics itself are 3D and flying units and missiles have a height, many things are not implemented to work in 3 dimensions - this is why maps have dungeons circling around instead of building one level over the other.

 

[GhostWolf]

http://wiki.unity3d.com/index.php/UnityScript_versus_JavaScript

And you realize that Java is not JavaScript...right? JavaScript is an implementation of ECMAScript, while Java is Sun's (long dead by now) language.

As to height - you are stating that any game that uses a heightmap or heightmap-like feature is not 3D?

 

[Kanadaj]

Yes, I know, and my bad, was too lazy to write JavaScript and wrote Java instead, should have written JS...

I don't consider WC3 3D for a simple reason - make a bridge than can be walked on and under it at the same time. The engine doesn't support it. It doesn't support any 3 dimensional calculations - and the height modifiers are actually tile property based, not truly height based. However, even if you raise the ground with the terrain tools (not leveling, only raising), you will achieve nothing, since the true height of the unit is not considered afaik. But tell me if I'm wrong.

 

[Tanasren]

You are talking nonsense Metalbear.
I coded before and I don't want to create a Super Mario rip off.
The topic is about ARPG games. I never mentioned MMORPG games.

A person who can't read should not post somthing.

Seriously, gamemaker 8 is a good choice, but I only speak about 2D, don't know about 3D.

It's fuckin easy (because there are so many help on the forums) and very powerful for this kind of game.

This message won't help the author maybe but other viewers

 

[Kanadaj]

Or, if you feel adventurous, you can go with RPG Maker (XP or VX) - it's basic behaviour is that of a 2D Final Fantasy, but it runs on scripts, and you can replace any of the scripts, so you only have to do that part, and already have the editor and event system.

 

[Metalbear]

And RPG Maker is lot more simpler then GM, since it focus on 1 type of game creation. Last time I tryed it at 2008, it was like making a warcraft 3 map with not much of triggers.

 

[Statharas]

Or you can just let him do it in Unity, stuff he needs aren't that hard at all. Hell, he can even do pathfinding in 2D.

On a side note, hearthstone is done in Unity3D.

 

[bhusta]

I already decided to work with unity, but as I said this thread can be used for public discussions you don't have to refer to me anymore.

Edit: 400th post, yeah

 

[Adiktuz]

I don't consider WC3 3D for a simple reason - make a bridge than can be walked on and under it at the same time. The engine doesn't support it. It doesn't support any 3 dimensional calculations - and the height modifiers are actually tile property based, not truly height based. However, even if you raise the ground with the terrain tools (not leveling, only raising), you will achieve nothing, since the true height of the unit is not considered afaik. But tell me if I'm wrong.

Actually you can, via using scripts to completely handle movement and not relying on the default one... Meaning, handling everything related to movement (like pathing) via your own custom script... It's not really hard to do, but it takes a lot of time to write down all of the calculations needed for that... then implementation takes quite a lot of effort too...

Anyway, yeah, Unity or UDK I guess... RM is not a good choice for it really... Yes, there are scripts for Action type battles (which are btw hard to implement), but it doesn't really go up to the level of the likes of Diablo

 

[sluk]

hey i think Unity is the best engine ;P

 

[Deleted member 219079]

hey i think Unity is the best engine ;P

OpenGL is best engine.