Spell immune Units make the game un-interesting. The Alternative is...

[Map Designer]

Hello,

Mass Dryads, mass spell breaks, and mass Destroyers are so boring, and will greatly restrict the other team trained units.

I suggest instead to give them magic resistance ability ((80% magic resistance semilar to runed bracers) + resistance skin)

Which will make them still very hard to nuke down but can be slowed/buffed.
(Negative buffs will last as short as heroes due to resistance skin)
Dryads and destroyers should be able to dispell themselves anyway.


Now spell breakers might be a little bit OP since they already have high armor, and can be buffed with inner fire or blood lust.

But I think this is good in general. Perhaps save spell immunity for MK Avatar, Archimond, and the likes.

 

[deepstrasz]

No one masses them that often because there are easy counters... watch some pro ladder games and you'll see it's not an issue.

 

[Dr Super Good]

The spell immune units often have issues with combat damage. Such as lower hp, worse armor, low attack damage per second and vulnerable armor or attack types.

 

[Zepher]

The spell immune units often have issues with combat damage. Such as lower hp, worse armor, low attack damage per second and vulnerable armor or attack types.

yes, that's exactly what balances it

 

[The_Silent]

All strategies is supposed to have counters, sounds like you rely to much on spell damage.

Wonder what build you're even going for, where massing those units would be your hard-counter.

 

[Map Designer]

All strategies is supposed to have counters, sounds like you rely to much on spell damage.

Wonder what build you're even going for, where massing those units would be your hard-counter.

I only Build Footmen, with few prist inner fire.
or Grunts with few shamans for blood lust.

But I have a hero, which his abilitites never get used on those units. (Blood mage, Far Seer, MK, dk, lich, blizzard, etc)

spells are kinda fun, and those units ruin it.

 

[Dr Super Good]

I only Build Footmen, with few prist inner fire.
or Grunts with few shamans for blood lust.

But I have a hero, which his abilitites never get used on those units. (Blood mage, Far Seer, MK, dk, lich, blizzard, etc)

If you go such comps you can expect the enemy to mass such mage countering units. They are basically hard countering your comp and you for being inflexible.

Like wise if you were to go mass air you can expect an enemy human to build 0 Spell Breakers and instead a mass Flying Machines.

To counter Spell Breakers you want to avoid magic and instead focus on "Normal" type damage. This means units such as Footman/Knights, Grunt/Tauren, Huntress/Druid of the Claw/Mountain Giant, and Ghouls/Abominations.

To counter Dryads you want "Pierce" or "Siege" type damage. This means units such as Rifleman/Mortar Team, Troll Headhunter/Troll Beserker/Raider/Demolisher, Archer/Glaive Thrower, and Crypt Fiend/Meat Wagon.

To counter Destroyers you want anti air damage. This means units such as Flying Machines/Siege Engines, Troll Headhunter/Troll Beserker/Troll Batrider, Archer, and Crypt Fiend/Gargoyle.

All these units should be hard counters and so take considerably fewer casualties worth in gold than the enemy does.

 

[seasand3]

I suggest instead to give them magic resistance ability ((80% magic resistance semilar to runed bracers)

my thoughts exactly. also, maybe reduce the duration of debuffs for them by a bit (like 50%) but only for the non damaging part of the debuff.

No one masses them that often because there are easy counters... watch some pro ladder games and you'll see it's not an issue.

well humans mass breakers in most of the games..
Undead mass destroyers when they can afford it (watch undead mirrors..)
im talking about pro games, not playing that good myself..

 

[Zepher]

Magic resistance is not a bad idea, but you need something as a perfect counter for spellcasters and that's where these magic immune units come in...

 

[Nudl9]

Can't debuff em.
Can't buff them.

Whats the problem here exactly?

 

[Map Designer]

Can't debuff em.
Can't buff them.

Whats the problem here exactly?

no fun.

 

[Nudl9]

I think that can be argued.
Personally i find Dryads and Destroyers interesting.
Spell Breakers are fortunately not that strong and have a lot of annoying mechanics.

Generally speaking i think there are more pressing manners if you're concerned with "no fun", primarily bats, tanks, chims.
Anything based around hard counters is annoying to use and counter.

 

[deepstrasz]

Spell Breakers are fortunately not that strong and have a lot of annoying mechanics.

They compensate with Feedback, Spell Steal and Control Magic.

 

[Rui]

Well, to address each one:

• Dryads: To be honest, I find their role as anti-spellcaster mediocre at best. They're equipped with a 200 mana pool that regenerates very slowly (EDIT: which is bad in itself due to the way moon wells work), and is supposed to pay 50 mp to dispel 40 mp slows, bloodlusts, or curses from 400 mp pool casters. Now that Cripple has been changed, it's not even useful against that anymore. As a combat unit, she leaves much to be desired too. Wind riders, mortars, crypt fiends... pretty much anything with a ranged attack will eat through dryads.
  
  
• Spell Breaker: This one is a bit annoying. Even after his HP got reduced from 650 to 600 and armor type from Heavy to Medium, he's still bulky enough. That is because, most of the time, people will pair them with a few priests and sorceresses. While your melee units are slowed, priests heal spell breakers, which makes them that much harder to dispatch. In any case, spell breakers are unreliable as an anti-spellcaster support for knights and heavy air units. The problem is the same as that of the dryad: too small mana pool, too low starting mana, and too little mana regeneration to compete with 400 mp pool spellcasters. Plus they have a hard time keeping up with tier 3 units due to their slow movement speed.
  
  
• Destroyer: This one is a major annoyance, I'll give you that. He's got an AoE dispel free of charge that, on of it, greatly increases his damage output. Because Undead have the must-have-Death-Knight problem, they're also quite fast. Destroyers I agree are kind of rigged, as just having 2 or 3 of them will shut down any spellcaster build.

In all these cases, regardless, your main problem will be that of scouting. Knowing what your opponent's up to is an important part of the game, both in StarCraft and Warcraft.

 

[Nudl9]

Dryads:
I don't think you can really play without Dryads, you need the slow effect to catch units, to kite effectively with your ranged units and to dispel important abilities. It really doesn't matter what you do with this unit, because they're almost essential to an NE army. In my opinion they could have +10 more hp.

Spell Breaker:
My experience with ladder is rather limited, but from what i've played i always felt that 2-3 spell breakers with an Archmage shut down casters too easily. I've tried using Talons, but the cost investment for Upgraded Talons vs. 2-3 Spell Breakers make the Talons obsolete. I think this unit design is just fundamentally flawed and has lots of anti-fun mechanics in general.

Destroyer:
This unit could have be better if Devour Magic had a max units affected value. Making it work like a Forked Lightning, but for devouring buffs. I don't find it fair that casting buffs requires more micro than a simple one-throw-and-go dispel. With that said UD is already too heavy on the micro so maybe it's fair.

 

[deepstrasz]

Dryads:

They are useful against many types of units, not only spell casters. And frankly against Wind Riders they rule. Slow Poison+3 food slots+Piercing Attack Type vs Slow Attack Speed+4 food slots+Light Armour.
About mana, it's not like you can't get them to drink some Moon Well water from time to time.

Spell Breaker

There was no reason for them to have Heavy Armour since they are invulnerable to magic. With Medium Armour, they will get killed faster by Normal Attack Type infantry which constitute the majority of tier 1 units.

Destroyer:

They constantly lose mana and they require 5 food and an upgrade to have them.

No game is perfectly balanced except for chess maybe I mean those which have the same advantages for all players (like everyone playing Human with the same units or something).

 

[Nudl9]

I wouldn't say Dryads rule against Wind Riders.
But its one of the better options NE have against air (which isn't a whole lot).

 

[Rui]

• The problem with dryads drinking moon well water is just that. The well heals the target's health by 2x the mana spent, but just 1x or 0.5x the mana. Sometimes you'll have your moon wells depleted and still require healing, which is not a good situation to be in.
• As for wind riders, the micro is much easier for the orc player. Make just 4 of them and the hero target a dryad and she's dead by the end of the second volley. If the NE had a way to easily split fire and slow poison all wind riders, then that would even the odds.
• About catching units with slow poison. Most NE players will prefer the Keeper of the Grove for that.

With Medium Armour, they will get killed faster by Normal Attack Type infantry which constitute the majority of tier 1 units.

I know. Hence why I said «they're still bulky» (as in, despite that )

 

[deepstrasz]

If the NE had a way to easily split fire, then that would even the odds.

Glaive Throwers? Fan of Knives?

About catching units with slow poison. Most NE players will prefer the Keeper of the Grove for that.

Can't cast it on air units.