Special : Typhoon 1.5

[Panda]

This looks really nice, the pathing is nice and the terrain is pretty decent but could use some work in some areas. And, there could use some more doodads around the water way areas, and just more love too bring it alive. Also, some creep camps have the hostile creeps looking in random directions instead of forward, it would look nice if they all where looking forward instead of random places. I feel like there could be more trees in the starting locations but I might be wrong there. Last, I feel like there could be one more orange camp put somewhere to even out the playing fields since its 6 players and they need all the experience they can get.

 

[Daffa]

@The Panda
The melee map is Blizzard's Typhoon. However, I will try to address the issue you mentioned to improve it.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

I'm afraid that the map doesn't offer much at its current stage. There are only a few alterations available to every race + the special "paths" offered at the beginning don't seem balanced as some of them are obviously more powerful than others (Engineer, for example, offers a huge power advantage and can be picked anytime which means that you can select it once you've gathered enough gold for an army without suffering from reduced income).

Moreover, most of the gamemodes seem redunant as they almost don't differ from one another apart from the tornado game mode which is incredibly annoying to play with(the tornadoes should at least ommit the players' starting locations, otherwise there's a very high chance of losing your main base in the first minutes of the game).

I appreciate the effort put into adding some features into every race, but I'm afraid that's not quite enough to make this an approvable work. I suggest playtesting the map with someone in order to balance out the "paths" (+maybe add a timer which, upon expiring, forces players to pick one of the paths randomly <before the game starts, of course> - otherwise, some of the paths can be abused, especially the Engineer one) and adding some more variety to the game modes (+there should be a basic game mode that you deem is the standard one that most people would play <otherwise, it's a bit disorienting and picking a lacking game mode, such as the tornado one, may turn people away from your map, making get the wrong idea about it>).

Without further work on the map, it's a simple edit at best. However, with some more effort, it might become a somewhat enjoyable alternative to Melee.

 

[Daffa]

Thanks for the input. Next time, would be helpful to use points
1. I am aware some are quite powerful than others. Still needs fixing for that one.
2. Welp, gotta fix those wandering chaos. I'll omit sides and put the tornadoes into the central area, forcing players to "go around" if they want to avoid them.
3. I have a hidden 60 second timer actually. I'll make it more visible next time with a countdown timer.
4. The TFT mode is the basic default mode, with no additional units I created (some are quite experimental, so I won't sacrifice balance with those new units in a simple melee + path game)

Will work more soon.

 

[Daffa]

@deepstrasz @twojstaryjakcie I would request a moderation, and if not suitable for approval, a Substandard status.

 

[Daffa]

Alright, new version is up!

Log is above, or check here :

1.2

Fixes Wind Chaos attacking inward bases (now only attacks outer bases)
Fixes Specialty choose-able after game begin
Fixes RoC mode to reflect more to original RoC
Fixes Lich's Freezing Breath inflicts freeze to heroes
Fixes Nathrezim Agent and Dark Knight bugged tier
Fixes Dark Knight spell icon placement

Changes Head Start bonus to depend on the Game Mode
Changed Zombie's requirement to Black Citadel

Increases Engineer specialty's resources handicap to 30%
Increases Medic specialty's resources handicap to 15%
Increases Medic specialty's armor bonus to 5
Increases Bounty Hunter specialty's armor bonus to 1
Increases Bounty Hunter specialty's damage bonus to 3
Increases Fortification specialty's building spell resistance bonus to 100%
Increases Empower specialty's health bonus to 50%
Increases Zombie's gold and lumber price to 100 and 20, respectively

Reduces Lich's Freezing Breath duration to 1.25

Reduces specialty time to 15 seconds

New Mode : Rise of the Depths

 

[Daffa]

@twojstaryjakcie @Paillan @deepstrasz any of you mind moderating this?

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

Unfortunately, even after the improvements, the map still has numerous issues. They can be probably fixed easily, though.

In terms of the most basic stuff - the timer doesn't appear during game mode selection - the host doesn't know how much time they have left which is quite frustrating when the mode is suddenly chosen for them. Also, the specialty timer time is definitely way too short, making reading all the tooltips impossible.

Some of the new abilities that heroes have are very powerful and some are pretty much useless. For example, Archmage has got a 3 second stun for 50 mana, while Blademaster has a Faerie Dragon-like phase ability that doesn't even work. Bloodmage's Absorb also doesn't work properly - it should give 100 mana while it actually grants the same amount of mana that it costs; quite underpowered when compared to, for example, a Lich that stuns on every basic attack (by the way, Mountain King and Far Seer have the same additional ability - is that intentional?). Not only that, but Tavern heroes don't have additional abilities whatsoever (also some of them have their tooltips missing), making them super weak in comparison. First and foremost, I'd suggest increasing mana costs for every ability, so that they can't be abused so easily and probably fix/nerf some of them (Blademaster, Bloodmage and Lich most likely). Adding special abilities to tavern heroes would also be nice.

The Medic specialty doesn't work on Militia - moreover, when Militia expires, Peasants no longer benefit from the stat bonus. I guess this issue appears also when other stat increasing specialties are picked.

When I picked the mode with waves of Naga, I didn't notice any waves coming my way even after around 10 minutes. I might've misclicked and picked another gamemode, but I'm quite certain I haven't done that. This brings me to the next problem - there is no information about neither the gamemode nor the specialty once they've been selected. It might be a little off-putting, especially for newcomers who have no idea about how the game's meant to be played.

The map still has a way to go before it is complete, but I think you're on the right track.

 

[Daffa]

Unfortunately, even after the improvements, the map still has numerous issues. They can be probably fixed easily, though.

In terms of the most basic stuff - the timer doesn't appear during game mode selection - the host doesn't know how much time they have left which is quite frustrating when the mode is suddenly chosen for them. Also, the specialty timer time is definitely way too short, making reading all the tooltips impossible.

Some of the new abilities that heroes have are very powerful and some are pretty much useless. For example, Archmage has got a 3 second stun for 50 mana, while Blademaster has a Faerie Dragon-like phase ability that doesn't even work. Bloodmage's Absorb also doesn't work properly - it should give 100 mana while it actually grants the same amount of mana that it costs; quite underpowered when compared to, for example, a Lich that stuns on every basic attack (by the way, Mountain King and Far Seer have the same additional ability - is that intentional?). Not only that, but Tavern heroes don't have additional abilities whatsoever (also some of them have their tooltips missing), making them super weak in comparison. First and foremost, I'd suggest increasing mana costs for every ability, so that they can't be abused so easily and probably fix/nerf some of them (Blademaster, Bloodmage and Lich most likely). Adding special abilities to tavern heroes would also be nice.

The Medic specialty doesn't work on Militia - moreover, when Militia expires, Peasants no longer benefit from the stat bonus. I guess this issue appears also when other stat increasing specialties are picked.

When I picked the mode with waves of Naga, I didn't notice any waves coming my way even after around 10 minutes. I might've misclicked and picked another gamemode, but I'm quite certain I haven't done that. This brings me to the next problem - there is no information about neither the gamemode nor the specialty once they've been selected. It might be a little off-putting, especially for newcomers who have no idea about how the game's meant to be played.

The map still has a way to go before it is complete, but I think you're on the right track.

I will add a timer for the first selection and increase the second one.

I will account the issue of extra abilities. Lich is already nerfed once (it used to kill hero too), and it took away the orb effect (I think) for the hero. For Blood Mage, that is my mistake. For Blademaster, I am currently thinking for a better extra ability. MK and FS is intentional, though I might change one of them later.

This problem also exist with Gargoyles and Crypt Fiend, or any unit with morph overall. I am working to fix the issue.

The Naga has 20 minutes delay before attacking, you can notice this from a timer shown in the upper right of the map. I might need to make a more visible note somewhere...

 

[Daffa]

Here's a new, hide and seek mode in the upcoming 1.3 :

 

[Daffa]

Here's something for 1.4 update. I forgot about the game mode timer, though I have a notification for host so they remember to choose quickly. I'll add one in the next update.

I re-balanced some of the support abilities for heroes and add ones for neutral heroes. They need more tests for balancing though, especially neutral ones. The new support power (especially Weaponry Support) will need a lot of balancing feedback.

Hidden

New : Support Powers
New Passives for Tavern heroes

Change Hydromancer requirement to Castle
Change Warlock Training icons
Change Zombie into Mutant
Change Far Seer's passive ability
Change Blood Mage's passive ability targets
Changed Old Age game mechanics

Increase New Age's starting gold from 100 to 250
Increase Blood Mage's Absorb Energy cooldown from 7.5 to 20 seconds

Decrease Mutant's Plague damage bonus from 7 to 5
Decrease Lich's Freezing Breath duration from 0.75 to 0.5 seconds
Decrease Depth Rise's Sea Witches from 8 to 4
Decrease Demon Hunter's Frenzy steal priority from 11 to 0

Fix Tech Delay restriction

EDIT :
As per 1.4, the map requires 1.29 version due to Support Power abilities requiring the newer natives.

 

[Daffa]

URGENT NEWS!

I RECOMMEND TO WAIT FOR 1.4.1 UPDATE! SOME NASTY BUG HAVE BEEN FOUND!

If you play 1.4, do not use Tinker and Night Elf Hunter Hall support power. Those things got bugged. Will upload the fix tomorrow or so.

 

[Daffa]

Fixed major issue with Nature Protection and Artillery Shield support powers. Also, fixed a mysterious bug in regards with Nanomachine.

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

It's getting better, I guess, though there are still many issues with the starting perks and their effects as well as with the abilities at lumber mill/hunter's hall and Night Elf HQ. I'll start with the new problems and address the old ones later.


As seen above, the expensive upgrade that increases max health of both units and buildings doesn't affect the buildings the same way it does units. The max health of buildings increases, though current health stays exactly the same.

Apart from that, the archer deployment available at the Tree of Life seems rather powerful when compared to other races which have either weaker abilities at their HQ or these abilities have a gold and lumber cost. The three archers offered at the Night Elf HQ are not only free, but can be deployed anywhere on the map. That seems like a bit of a stretch.

Also, the new Elf unit you added to the Ancient of War - it's way too cheap and easy to get when you consider the fact that it has Bloodlust. I'm quite sure that 140 gold is way too cheap for a tier 1 Bloodlust caster. I think you should make it available at tier 3 while also adding a lumber cost to it, because right now, Night Elves have one of the most powerful Orc spells at the start of the game, which seems quite ridiculous.


Adding the invulnerability effect to all units affected by the upgrade doesn't seem like a good idea, mostly for clarity reasons, but also because the +1 armor upgrade doesn't really deserve a unique visual effect. If you really want to add a special effect to all units which are affected, use something much more subtle, so that players see that the upgrade is in effect but they don't have their screen covered with lots of flashy effects that don't signify anything of great importance.

And now, back to the old issues - the Medic, Engineer and the +50% health perks are pretty much insane when compared to other perks. 4th hero seems hardly relevant when your opponent has an army almost twice as durable as yours. I strongly suggest nerfing these three perks, probably by reducing the bonuses by half (+150 health and +2 armor seems fair, while 300 hp and +5 armor feels insane, even with 20% income reduction). The Engineer probably doesn't need to be weakened as much, but their nerf is still something to consider.

The tier 2 delay perk, while not as powerful as the previous perks, is definitely the most annoying one and, in my opinion, probably something that should either be removed or reworked completely. There is no fun in having to use tier 1 units for 20 whole minutes. There are some games which end in tier 3 mass air fights and last shorter than that. This perk, in spite of not breaking the game, definitely hinders the gameplay value of the map greatly.

Finally, as I've mentioned in my previous posts, I really think players would appreciate you putting information about the current game mode and all perks in the Quest Log.

Good work as usual, though I'm afraid you keep focusing on new features rather than polishing the core mechanics of your map.

 

[Daffa]

As always, I thank you for all the detailed review you give me. I'm not quite sure how to fix them, so I have to wait. The new idea was coming from another game I played

Anyway, on to the review.

As seen above, the expensive upgrade that increases max health of both units and buildings doesn't affect the buildings the same way it does units. The max health of buildings increases, though current health stays exactly the same.

Apart from that, the archer deployment available at the Tree of Life seems rather powerful when compared to other races which have either weaker abilities at their HQ or these abilities have a gold and lumber cost. The three archers offered at the Night Elf HQ are not only free, but can be deployed anywhere on the map. That seems like a bit of a stretch.

Also, the new Elf unit you added to the Ancient of War - it's way too cheap and easy to get when you consider the fact that it has Bloodlust. I'm quite sure that 140 gold is way too cheap for a tier 1 Bloodlust caster. I think you should make it available at tier 3 while also adding a lumber cost to it, because right now, Night Elves have one of the most powerful Orc spells at the start of the game, which seems quite ridiculous.

Intended actually, though it looks ugly now that I thought about it. I will improve that perk and increase it's price.

Switched it with the second tier, though I weaken the second support and improve the first support to compensate.

I do as you suggested

Adding the invulnerability effect to all units affected by the upgrade doesn't seem like a good idea, mostly for clarity reasons, but also because the +1 armor upgrade doesn't really deserve a unique visual effect. If you really want to add a special effect to all units which are affected, use something much more subtle, so that players see that the upgrade is in effect but they don't have their screen covered with lots of flashy effects that don't signify anything of great importance.

And now, back to the old issues - the Medic, Engineer and the +50% health perks are pretty much insane when compared to other perks. 4th hero seems hardly relevant when your opponent has an army almost twice as durable as yours. I strongly suggest nerfing these three perks, probably by reducing the bonuses by half (+150 health and +2 armor seems fair, while 300 hp and +5 armor feels insane, even with 20% income reduction). The Engineer probably doesn't need to be weakened as much, but their nerf is still something to consider.

The tier 2 delay perk, while not as powerful as the previous perks, is definitely the most annoying one and, in my opinion, probably something that should either be removed or reworked completely. There is no fun in having to use tier 1 units for 20 whole minutes. There are some games which end in tier 3 mass air fights and last shorter than that. This perk, in spite of not breaking the game, definitely hinders the gameplay value of the map greatly.

Finally, as I've mentioned in my previous posts, I really think players would appreciate you putting information about the current game mode and all perks in the Quest Log.

Good work as usual, though I'm afraid you keep focusing on new features rather than polishing the core mechanics of your map.

Will fix that using simpler effect to clarify it's under the effect.

I recall only the paths were OP. Guess almost everything was broken one way or another. I have removed the armor bonus part of that path and apply side effect to other paths to weaken their OP bonus. I also modified that junk hero perk and the delay perk is now much more useful with less time for it's delay.

Added all the game mode. Perk will follow soon.

I was confused on how to polish it out properly, since balancing is not the best thing I can do. These recommendations help me consider what needs to do with them, thanks.

ALL FIXES APPLIED IN UPCOMING 1.5

 

[Daffa]

1.5 Patch has arrived!

Hidden

Fixes a major issue with Tech Delay being selectable after chosen

Added Game Mode Timer Window
Added SFX for all weaponry support power
Added Quest log for active Game Mode
Added Ultravision for Sentry

Changed 4th Hero to Blessing of Heroes and improve it's effects
Changed Ambush Position from Support Power I to Support Power II and requirements
Changed Extend Life from Support Power II to Support Power I and requirements
Changed some Game Mode icons
Changed Tech Delay's effects
Changed HUNTED! to TARGET ELIMINATED!

Increased Handicap's upkeep handicap from 0% to 20%
Increased Bounty Hunter's upkeep handicap from 0% to 10%
Increased Fortifications' upkeep handicap from 0% to 5%
Increased Ambush Position's archers from 3 to 5
Increased Nature Protection's gold price from 1700 to 2500
Increased Sentry's lumber price from 0 to 35
Increased Sentry's gold price from 140 to 195
Increased Sentry's max health from 325 to 400
Increased Sentry's train time from 25 to 30 seconds

Decreased power of Naga Sea Witch in Rise of the Depths Mode
Decreased Tech Delay's primary duration from 20 to 10 minutes
Decreased Path of Medic's armor bonus from 5 to 0
Decreased Extend Life's max health bonus from 750 to 100
Decreased Extend Life's rejuvenation bonus from 750 to 500
Decreased Artillery Shield's gold price from 1500 to 1250

thanks to @twojstaryjakcie for the feedback he gives out!

 

[Daffa]

Is there any news on this? @deepstrasz @twojstaryjakcie @Paillan

 

[Daffa]

Any news for moderation? @twojstaryjakcie @deepstrasz @Paillan

 

[deepstrasz]

Any news for moderation? @twojstaryjakcie @deepstrasz @Paillan

Well, I am waiting for @twojstaryjakcie since he did three reviews on this.

 

[Daffa]

Well, I am waiting for @twojstaryjakcie since he did three reviews on this.

Alright then. I'm fine waiting for another year, if at least I can get user feedback...

Need some promotional materials I guess...

 

[deepstrasz]

Alright then. I'm fine waiting for another year, if at least I can get user feedback...

Need some promotional materials I guess...

It's on Pending. Users can see/download it.
I'll test it if by the end of this month the first reviewer doesn't.

 

[Daffa]

It's on Pending. Users can see/download it.
I'll test it if by the end of this month the first reviewer doesn't.

True, but the interest is low here. Can't blame that though. At least much better than Awaiting Update and Substandard.
No need to rush. Just wipe the other maps from Pending first if you want, this one can wait

 

[twojstaryjakcie]

Give me a few more hours, pls.

 

[Daffa]

Give me a few more hours, pls.

You have over a week more time, no worries

 

[Daffa]

@twojstaryjakcie hello?

 

[deepstrasz]

Spoiler: here it goes

1. Original RoC seems useless when heroes don't have Normal attack type and I'm not sure about the overall balance. Plus you can build the shops. TfT heroes on RoC mode too. At least the Spellbreaker is not there. The Dragonhawk isn't too but Cloud is? Also, upkeep should be reduced to 40 or how was it back then? Anyways, this mode has little to no value considering you could just play RoC melee anyway.
2. Quick Deploy in RoC mode? What's that anyway? I don't remember such a thing back in RoC... You should colour the text in yellow for the notification about needing those buildings first. But why not only make it enabled when you have both buildings?
3. Artillery Shield is also something that was not in either of the games. Siege Engines are very problematic because they have fortified armour. Mortar Teams can easily be healed by Holy Light for instance and not only.
4. Not sure how Massacre is supposed to work (neutral hostile units unaffected?) but you can buy it infinite times? Does that mean you could potentially decrease enemy unit armour by -n? What if there are more orc players at once, even in the same team? It creates special FX on units each time it's bought even on already affected units. That creates leaks.
5. Bat Rider and Spirit Walker present in RoC mode of course along with the Shadow Hunter.
6. From what I understand Decay Force only acts on units/buildings which are alive? Not on neutral though. You should mention it. This ability-upgrade also creates special FX leaks.
7. Nature's Blessing and Backpacks are also TfT stuff. Fairy Dragons too?
8. Nature Protection also creates special FX leaks. The FX stack also appears after a hero revives. Upgrades only for heroes are controvertible. Permanent ones too. Balance seems off the charts or a rush for whom has more gold to buy the weird "upgrades". The icon should be different than that of Force of Nature.

9. Some specialties seem like a gamble especially if you start close to your enemy. I guess this should be played in teams and certainly not FFA.
10. Tax Taker means that the other players gain less gold or that only the one who chooses this specialty gains more? Because, what happens if one player chooses that and the enemy the same? Do they basically become null?
11. Path of Engineer might be too powerful? I don't know. Depends on how quick you can actually train stuff with that 30% income reduction. But Path of the Medic could be worse.
12. Units and upgrades should be disabled in the Old Age mode if they cannot be trained/researched. Buildings too (example: Gryphon Aviary).
13. Fire Explosion is basically a Flame Strike. Why not get more creative? Also, you should mention its range.

14. Blessing of Heroes doesn't reduce income and it's too overpowered. I suggest only allowing the training of a fourth hero.
15. Not sure about the Delay Specialty. You could potentially train stronger units faster without any handicap.
16. Defensive Barrier also increases 4 armour after each use? I'm not sure... Maybe instead of Divine Shield you could just make it a spell with huge armour for a period of time.
17. Artilery Shield icon=Advanced Mansory's and Fortified armour too (but that last one is not your fault).
18. Hydromancer also casts Slow of Polymorph? What's the point? You have the Sorceress for that, besides, it's lack of creativity.
19. Why not make the Captain an upgrade of the Footman?
20. Earthquake is very problematic as a whole map spell. Also, the orcs have three spells they can use.
21. Warlock Adept Training icon=Unholy Frenzy's. Also, the unit has two spells present on the necromancer. Warlock Master Training's icon=Cripple.
22. Confusion Cloud's icon=Cloud's.
23. The Necropolis' Raise Dead. Isn't it random, the casting I mean (on the map)? And if you have a Graveyard, that's basically where it acts because it's closest? Also, it's too useful in early game for creeping.
24. Plague's icon=Zombie/mutant's. Shouldn't it have a cooldown or cost mana since it's autocast?
25. Ancient Strength, I hope that it does not bestow permanent 1k life and 2 armour after each spell use.
26. Sentry's icon=Huntress'. Bloodlust is on the Shaman too and Elune's Grace is on the Archer. This unit is pretty much meh creativewise. The only reason to use it is for Bloodlust.

27. The Tornado things is a nice touch but it could be periodically happening instead of all the time to avoid random encounters early on. An issue with it is that it affects neutral hostile units too making creeping extremely easy for Blademasters for example. You could make the weather mode more interesting with adding random lightning strikes too, slowing wind/winter/blizzard or chilling/DPS (or heat) etc.
28. What the creep spawning mode is concerned, I suggest not adding four copies of the same hero/unit (even the items...) in the middle and diversifying things. Not only that but players can train Naga Sea Witches. Maybe make a custom hero or something instead? An issue with this mode would be that a bit later, main bases would be tad vulnerable because of trees not forming a barrier anymore unless you're playing night elf.
29. New Tavern heroes are just combinations of other heroes.
30. The newly added hero spells might create controversy like the Lich's slow. Demon Skin's icon=Unholy Aura's
31. Sending a full upgraded Naga Royal Guard after the first 5 minutes!?
32. The spawned creeps don't search for the other players, they just stack near main mines. They should wander on the map searching for the players.
33. Maybe you could make it more interesting as time goes on, new naga coming in and all that.
34. Invisible War is a joke. I wonder who's gonna play that. It's just.. random? It's the happiest mode for Blademasters.
35. Militia are not invisible.

There are nice ideas but needs more work. Many look like meagre changes.

Awaiting Update.